Drunken Master
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Smont
Legend
Any dose of a sarm is counterproductive in PCT, but you're an adult you can do whatever you want, I've seen people do worse things but I don't recommend it cuz it's kind of foolish.
No I would not stack rad140 with epistane, if you want to stack rad140 with something pick something that produces estrogen as that's going to increase the effectiveness in multiple ways.
Also the reason people find sarm cycles underwhelming is because they dose them way too low. If you took 50 mg a day of lgd or s23 it would have very similar results and side effects to most oral anabolic steroids. But at that point it just becomes so expensive you might as well use the real thing. If you don't want to be injecting testosterone or anything for that matter and you're only going to use orals or transdermals then get some 4 Andro and epiandro to stack with your sarm, that covers your estrogen your DHT and your anabolic. If that's not enough then you could add a methyl on top of it.
Or you could just buy a bottle or 2 of testosterone and cover all those bases in one shot
No I would not stack rad140 with epistane, if you want to stack rad140 with something pick something that produces estrogen as that's going to increase the effectiveness in multiple ways.
Also the reason people find sarm cycles underwhelming is because they dose them way too low. If you took 50 mg a day of lgd or s23 it would have very similar results and side effects to most oral anabolic steroids. But at that point it just becomes so expensive you might as well use the real thing. If you don't want to be injecting testosterone or anything for that matter and you're only going to use orals or transdermals then get some 4 Andro and epiandro to stack with your sarm, that covers your estrogen your DHT and your anabolic. If that's not enough then you could add a methyl on top of it.
Or you could just buy a bottle or 2 of testosterone and cover all those bases in one shot
Drunken Master
Member
ok thats interesting.
1. if you use a serm along a low dose of a sarm, the serm works, even up to medium doses. but definitly alongside something like 10mg ostarine. now if 10mg ostarine would make a difference for keeping gains...i dont know...but thats not a crucial part of the cycle anyway
2. no sarm converts to estrogen. i would stack RAD with epistane because RAD is non methylated, and can be run for longer, and because i have to use up my RAD. just for enhancement while stacking or maybe a longer duration when bridging, not for synergy
i would use a oral or transdermal test base for estrogen any. what would be sufficient for rad and epistane? for the stronger sarm cycles i used dermacrine and was good. if thats not enough for a methylated prohormone with a sarm, maybe 4 andro.
3.now thats very interesting. the sarm community does only low doses, and always taklks about "dimishing returns". something like 50mg RAD is actually unheard of(google it and see if you can find someone who tried it), i actually had people talk crazy to me and call me an idiot for doing 25mg RAD. diminishing returns is actually a well established thing in the sarm community. i think they are full of **** most of the time, so i'm curious about what you just said. 50mg RAD would have the same effect as a prohormone? how would it compare in toxicity? i always was intrigued by sarms because they are not as liver toxic and non methylated. and thats why i want to combine a very low dose or a very short duration of methylated prohormone with a sarm. a sarm and a prohormone combined should theroretically be less liver toxic than a equally strong cycle with just a prohormone
i know that injecting test is best and oral cycles are half ass, but i cant pin i am working on it
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Smont
Legend
Show me the bloodwork with someone running sarms with serms and recovering normal, I've only seen bloodwork twice with a sarm in pct, one guy came back in the 400's which is pretty damn low for a 20 something year old and the other guy came back in the 200's like a 80 year old man.
I mean technically you can eventually recover with no pct if your not hypogonadal.
But I don't really see any benefit to a sarm in pct, the possible advantage of keeping a tiny bit more muscle is miniscule. You don't actually loose any muscle in pct, or very minimal. It's the months after pct that your off gear that muscle goes away. If you drop 5,10 or however many pounds in pct it's not muscle, it's water and glycogen.
But again do whatever you want. I'm not necessarily against it, I just think it's counterproductive. And Ive seen the bloodwork to back up my opinion
Drunken Master
Member
ok, so no sarm in pct. its not a crucial part of the cycle, or of my question anyway. i've seen people who claimed to have used sarm/serm cycles with no pct and were fully recovered without PCT. i have seen bloodwork on the internet but i dont know these people and i dont trust them beause i know for a fact that community is full of crap. so i will forget about sarm in pct. but i'll have to care about the pct later i dont even have a cycle yet.
Drunken Master
Member
as far as my cycles, i always progress from 20mg ostarine to cycles on the high end of whats considered kosher for sarms. so how about if i do something like my last sarm cycle, about 25mg RAD for 8weeks plus 10mg epistane pre workout everyday. or more epistane for 4-6 weeks and continue with the sarm..
Smont
Legend
I personally don't know if 10mg of epistane is going to do much of anything, but I wouldn't run the two of them together with nothing else in the mix and here's my reasoning.
Sarms do not convert to estrogen or dht, the longer you use them the less estrogen and the less DHT you're going to have in your body and those two things are massively important to sexual function and feeling good. Epistane is going to further those negative effects on estrogen to the point where you might after four five or who knows weeks crush your estrogen into the dirt, and when you're estrogen is crushed you cannot build muscle and your dong stops working. So it's just not something I would risk on myself.
With some test in the mix or something that converts to estrogen I would feel more comfortable using sarms and epistane together.
If I could never use testosterone again and was limited to only over the counter stuff, all of my cycles would consist of something like 4andro or dermacrine to cover that testosterone/estrogen balance, a sarm or prohormone "or both" as my anabolic or muscle builder. If I wanted to take it one step further I'd pick another compound that has a higher conversion to DHT.
At that point you got everything covered.
This isn't to say that you can't use rad in epistane together. You very well could run into no problems at all with that, I personally just don't like the idea because of the potential negatives. I believe with epistane I found the sweet spot to be 30-40mg, I don't think I ever went less than 20, I can't quite remember cuz it's been a long time since I've used it, probably 8-10 years ago
Smont
Legend
They have actually done medical research on rad using up to 100mg a day I believe.
As far as the sarm community running these low doses, it's because most of the people who talk about sarms have never even used them and they're just copying and pasting or talking out their ass because they saw someone else say it.
But if you think about it logically for a second, we all know that sarms are much weaker than steroids.
Anadrol is one of the strongest orals, 50mg is usually the starting point, 75 to 150 mg per day is not uncommon. So what do these guys really think 10-20mg of a sarm would do. I know 20mg of anadrol is barely going to do anything and anyone that think mg for mg a sarm is stronger then anadrol is absolutely crazy.
So if 10 to 20 mg of anadrol is pretty much a waste of your time, it's pretty logical to see how 10 to 20 mg of a sarm is kinda a waste of time, unless it's your first cycle ever, or you're throwing it in the mix.
Rad I found 15-25 mg was kinda the upper limit, it didn't seem to get better after that, osta I thought was trash at any dose. Lgd however, the more you take the more results and side effects your probably gonna get. Same for s23.
But we don't no the long terms effects of taking those things at 10mg, nevermind 50 or 100 mg.
But we do know the longe term effects of most of the real oral anabolics at those doses. So I'd rather not spend 3 times the money and play the guessing game on megadosing sarms.
Lgd is probably my favorite sarm. I used up to 40mg with some positive gains and no side effects. Injectable lgd was better tho. 20mg daily is a nice dose for that one