Worried about Gyno

[greg232323]

In my early 20s I ran a 3 different pro-hormones back to back to back with no PCT and developed gyno. Not fun at all. No other real sides thankfully. Fast forward about 10 years and looking to run some 11_oxo and some Havoc. I dont want to have the same issues and want to do everything I can do to combat the chance of gyno. Any advise you can all give would be helpful. From what I am hearing Nolvadex/Tamoxifen is the way to go. Please help!

Thank you.

 

[CasperKValentine]

What compounds did you run back in the day? Since you are prone safest bet would be to stick with dry (non aramotizing) compounds. I'd double check but I believe 11-oxo and Havoc are dry. What are your goals, current stats, etc? Plenty of discussions over products people are really digging these days.

 

[greg232323]

What compounds did you run back in the day? Since you are prone safest bet would be to stick with dry (non aramotizing) compounds. I'd double check but I believe 11-oxo and Havoc are dry. What are your goals, current stats, etc? Plenty of discussions over products people are really digging these days.

I was a mess back then lol... Ran EPI2A3A, Chlorovar, and Tr3n. All orals. I really liked the EPI2A3A. strenght shot up through the roof and even though diet wasnt great still lost a lot of weight leaning out. Same goals as then, lose some weight, lean out and put on a few pounds of muscle. Currently I am 34 about 205lbs 5'10 bf at about 17/18 percent if I had to guess. Let me know your thoughts.

Thanks,

 

[KvanH]

AI and Ralox on hand. Tamox is the next best thing after Ralox. 11-oxo doesn't aromatize and Epistane lowers estro. It's the rebound estro you need to typically worry about with Epistane.

 

[CasperKValentine]

Been there brother. I was a mess in my late 20's. Was running Halodrol cycles and still getting hammered every weekend. I did keep it to 4 weeks at a time and did proper PCTs though. I'm 44 now and have been on TRT for a few years. It's nice to be able to run some mild compounds and not need to worry about PCT. Those oral cycles are harsh plus it's generally a 2 step forwards 1 step back process if you're doing a proper PCT. Sounds like we are pretty close to the same size. I'm 5'11 and last weighed 210, I'd estimate I'm at 18% bf. Trying to lean out now and I'm running a transdermal 11KT (Apex Alchemy Kronos) and EpiAndro which is a DHEA based andro that converts to DHT. One of my favorites, makes me feel in my 20's again. LOL! If you stay away from wet compounds and follow a good PCT protocol I would think you will be fine. There's people more knowledgeable than me on the Nolvadex/Tamoxifen that can help you on that question. Good luck!

 

[greg232323]

AI and Ralox on hand. Tamox is the next best thing after Ralox. 11-oxo doesn't aromatize and Epistane lowers estro. It's the rebound estro you need to typically worry about with Epistane.

Yea i think the rebound is definitely the issue.. What do you go with for an AI? Where to get it? Also does Nolva work. I think I can get that easier?

 

[greg232323]

Been there brother. I was a mess in my late 20's. Was running Halodrol cycles and still getting hammered every weekend. I did keep it to 4 weeks at a time and did proper PCTs though. I'm 44 now and have been on TRT for a few years. It's nice to be able to run some mild compounds and not need to worry about PCT. Those oral cycles are harsh plus it's generally a 2 step forwards 1 step back process if you're doing a proper PCT. Sounds like we are pretty close to the same size. I'm 5'11 and last weighed 210, I'd estimate I'm at 18% bf. Trying to lean out now and I'm running a transdermal 11KT (Apex Alchemy Kronos) and EpiAndro which is a DHEA based andro that converts to DHT. One of my favorites, makes me feel in my 20's again. LOL! If you stay away from wet compounds and follow a good PCT protocol I would think you will be fine. There's people more knowledgeable than me on the Nolvadex/Tamoxifen that can help you on that question. Good luck!

Yea seem pretty similar definitely. I hear mixed things on Havoc being mild and some saying it definitely isnt. I think the consensus is the 11-oxo is pretty mild. Most saying you dont even need a SERM for it. How would I know if either are Dry or Wet? Also hoping with PCT if I just insert something like the nolva that I will be ok. Also will go for bloodwork and if anything seems out of wack hoping doc will know whats best.

 

[CasperKValentine]

Yea seem pretty similar definitely. I hear mixed things on Havoc being mild and some saying it definitely isnt. I think the consensus is the 11-oxo is pretty mild. Most saying you dont even need a SERM for it. How would I know if either are Dry or Wet? Also hoping with PCT if I just insert something like the nolva that I will be ok. Also will go for bloodwork and if anything seems out of wack hoping doc will know whats best.

Some people have different definitions of what a mild compound is. They may base off the sides they experienced, shut down, results, etc. I myself really wouldn't consider Havoc/Epistane a mild compound. It's a pretty strong oral. I've never ran 11-oxo, but I like 11KT (11 Ketotestosterone) which is what I believe 11 Oxo is intended to convert to. It's mild for me as far as sides go but at a solid dose for me, it's a great cutting compound. The only drawback is that it's a bit pricy for the dosage. Google a site called Prohormone Database and that will have the nomenclature for almost everything with details and will say if its dry or wet.

 

[greg232323]

Some people have different definitions of what a mild compound is. They may base off the sides they experienced, shut down, results, etc. I myself really wouldn't consider Havoc/Epistane a mild compound. It's a pretty strong oral. I've never ran 11-oxo, but I like 11KT (11 Ketotestosterone) which is what I believe 11 Oxo is intended to convert to. It's mild for me as far as sides go but at a solid dose for me, it's a great cutting compound. The only drawback is that it's a bit pricy for the dosage. Google a site called Prohormone Database and that will have the nomenclature for almost everything with details and will say if its dry or wet.

You think I would be better off just running the 11-oxo then for say 6 weeks to cut and then using a OTC PCT? I would probably only run it at about 600mg.

 

[CasperKValentine]

You think I would be better off just running the 11-oxo then for say 6 weeks to cut and then using a OTC PCT? I would probably only run it at about 600mg.

It's been so long since I've run a PCT I don't really know what is available OTC these days and if any good or not. I don't want to steer you the wrong way man!

 

[G34RS]

AI and Ralox on hand. Tamox is the next best thing after Ralox. 11-oxo doesn't aromatize and Epistane lowers estro. It's the rebound estro you need to typically worry about with Epistane.

Agreed. Raloxifene will likely clear up to some degree the gyno you already have too. There’ve been studies that men who’ve had gyno for several years saw a reduction.

 

[greg232323]

It's been so long since I've run a PCT I don't really know what is available OTC these days and if any good or not. I don't want to steer you the wrong way man!

Agreed. Raloxifene will likely clear up to some degree the gyno you already have too. There’ve been studies that men who’ve had gyno for several years saw a reduction.

I had surgery to remove what i had back then so there's even the possibility i herd that it cant come back cause the glands get removed. Not sure how true that is but it was wierd i only got it on the right side.

 

[G34RS]

Even so, if you are looking at a SERM purely for boob blocking purposes, raloxifene is a better choice due to its lower side effect profile. Nolva will still probably be a better choice for PCT tho.

 

[KvanH]

Even so, if you are looking at a SERM purely for boob blocking purposes, raloxifene is a better choice due to its lower side effect profile. Nolva will still probably be a better choice for PCT tho.

Yes, Nolva is way better for pct. Ralox has the highest binding affinity to breast tissue out of all serms, that's why it's best for gyno protection and for reduction attempt. Also the sides profile like effect on igf-1 is lesser, than with other serms, like G34RS mentiones here.

 

[KvanH]

I had surgery to remove what i had back then so there's even the possibility i herd that it cant come back cause the glands get removed. Not sure how true that is but it was wierd i only got it on the right side.

Are you sure the whole gland was removed and on both sides? If it wasn't, then there's allways a chance of regrow. Most of the times the whole gland is not removed to my knowledge, but I've heard that being done sometimes.

Here's some discussion about it:
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