Ostarine and anavar with test? Tren A subcutaneous?

[Jj1991]

Can ostarine be run for 16 weeks? I know people run it for 8-12 weeks but I'm planning a 16 week cycle and I want to use it throughout.

What's the general opinion on tren ace @ .25ml pinned subq ED? I was thinking of "micro dosing" it into my cycle but I'm sick of IM Injection's 7 days a week it's shite and no one will ever convince me otherwise. Twice a week is enough for me from now on.

Thoughts on anavar and ostarine been run at the same time on cycle? Will they work together or just over kill?

 

[KvanH]

I think only bloods will tell if Osta is ok to run for 16 weeks for you. But adding Osta to Test, Tren, Var cycle makes no sense to me. Would be a drop in a bucket in terms of performance/gains, but will add to sides and stress on the body.

 

[Whisky]

I think only bloods will tell if Osta is ok to run for 16 weeks for you. But adding Osta to Test, Tren, Var cycle makes no sense to me. Would be a drop in a bucket in terms of performance/gains, but will add to sides and stress on the body.

yeah agree with this. Unless you have a very specific reason for using osta it’s like having your thigh stroked when she’s already got the full nipple clamps in place and tightened, just not gonna add anything.

were you planning on also running the tren and var for 16 weeks as that will cause far more issues than osta anyway.

what’s the full cycle plan bro. I mean I agree I don’t like pinning IM even eod let alone ed but I’d use tren e rather than ace sub q, but that’s just me. I don’t know why you couldn’t go sub q Ed with 0.25ml.

are you on trt?

 

[CroLifter]

@Whisky its an injustice that we will prolly never meet irl

 

[Jj1991]

yeah agree with this. Unless you have a very specific reason for using osta it’s like having your thigh stroked when she’s already got the full nipple clamps in place and tightened, just not gonna add anything.

were you planning on also running the tren and var for 16 weeks as that will cause far more issues than osta anyway.

what’s the full cycle plan bro. I mean I agree I don’t like pinning IM even eod let alone ed but I’d use tren e rather than ace sub q, but that’s just me. I don’t know why you couldn’t go sub q Ed with 0.25ml.

are you on trt?

Hey buddy, no I would never run var for longer than 6 weeks, and wouldn't plan on running tren A longer than 8-10 week's but that's just from personal preference. Sorry I should have been more clear with my original post.

Proposed cycle looks like this:
1-14 test E 350-500mg per week( still debating as theres alot of info out there now explaining how over 350mg results in more sides Vs gains but I suppose everyone is individual and I don't really suffer estrogenic sides)
1-4 d bol 15mg 3x per day ( I love low dose dbol)
1-16 ostarine
10-16 anavar 40mg ed(I usually use var at the end of a cycle to bridge the ester clearance before PCT)

If I can pin tren subq then I plan on running it week 6-14 25mg ED/175mg per week.

The reason I want to add tren here is because the dbol will have been cleared out of my system for 2 weeks I don't want that methlyestrodiol it converts to(or how ever you spell it) aromatising with progesterone. My thought process is the test will be at stable blood levels before introducing the tren If use it aswell.

A quick bit of history I've run around 6-7 cycle's but never used SARMS. I've run up to 800mg test solo with no AI with no excessive water retention, oily skin or acne it was my favourite cycle I felt like king kong. I used adex on my first cycle with 500mg and my joints felt like **** and my skin was as dry as hell until I ceased using it i used 0.5mg e3d too. I've run test 600mg and tren 600mg no ai and had no issues but the night sweats and anger were absolute 10/10. I've used anadrol, dianabol and anavar. I've run test p/tren a/mast p for 8 weeks either 3 or 4 times and I found at 350mg of each I had no sides but I was also pinning ED. I plan on keeping my dosages fairly low from now on considering I haven't cycled for a few years now. I'm 30 years old and no I'm not on TRT, had bloods done Feb 2020 and everything come back in the range of normal but I'm currently trying to find a private blood test in the UK just be sure before I cycle and I also plan on doing them again 4-6 weeks after PCT to see how I've recovered.

My thoughts on ostarine were just to aid with fat loss throughout and to also aid my joints, tendons ligaments ect.

Thanks again.

 

[CroLifter]

He wanted to say that ostarine is weaksauce compared to everything else.

It wont do anything but will add to the destruction of an already completely annihilated lipid panel.

Tren and var with test will do everything you want and then some. If you want more add GH.

 

[KvanH]

Ditch the Osta, it's super weak. I didn't notest the joint/tendon improvement myself, but that seems to be pretty individual (well, most of this stuff is to some degree at least). Aiding in fat loss for me - tough to say, maybe it did help a bit.

Other than that seems like you know what you're doing

 

[Jj1991]

He wanted to say that ostarine is weaksauce compared to everything else.

It wont do anything but will add to the destruction of an already completely annihilated lipid panel.

Tren and var with test will do everything you want and then some. If you want more add GH.

So osta crushes the lipids? I don't want to mixing that with var then. I should have said aswell I plan on running defend cycle assist from week 1 through to the end of PCT. It's abit over kill at the times I won't be using an oral but I figure it's not gonna harm me and should try keep everything somewhat normal with plenty of water daily for the liver. Would it maybe worth using osta for the first 8 weeks? Or sack it off altogether?
Thanks again I really appreciate all of your advice.

 

[Mathb33]

Ostarine will be just as toxic as an oral steroids and will bring absolutely 0 to the table with all you’ve listed except adding stress on your body. Garbage compound especially when added with the real stuff.

 

[Fly_boy]

There’s also some evidence that Osta can have a higher affinity for AR than some AAS so it could have a blocking effect. I’d ditch the Osta too. I didn’t have any noticeable effects with tendons/joints.

 

[Hyde]

Ostarine is for chicks who are done having babies. That is the ideal practical application IME. I haven’t really found another.

 

[KvanH]

Ostarine is for chicks who are done having babies. That is the ideal practical application IME. I haven’t really found another.

To be fair I found it to be decent in maintaining mm on a cut, even as low dose as 15 mg. Not to say there aren't better and healthier options for that. Also the 15 mg had my shbg at 8 nmol/l (ref 15 - 95), but again better options for lowering shbg too.

 

[Whisky]

Hey buddy, no I would never run var for longer than 6 weeks nor would I run tren longer than 8 weeks again just from personal preference. Sorry I should have been more clear with my original post.

Proposed cycle looks like this:
1-14 test E 350-500mg per week( still debating as theres alot of info out there now explaining how over 350mg results in more sides Vs gains but I suppose everyone is individual and I don't really suffer estrogenic sides)
1-4 d bol 15mg 3x per day ( I love low dose dbol)
1-16 ostarine
8-16 anavar 40mg ed(I usually var at the end of every cycle to bridge the 2 week ester clearance before PCT)

If I can pin tren subq then I plan on running it week 6-14 25mg ED/175mg per week.

The reason I want to add tren here is because the dbol will have been cleared out of my system for 2 weeks I don't want that methlyestrodiol it converts to(or how ever you spell it) aromatising with progesterone. My thought process is the test will be at stable blood levels before introducing the tren If use it aswell.

A quick bit of history I've run around 6-7 cycle's but never used SARMS. I've run up to 800mg test solo with no AI with no excessive water retention, oily skin or acne it was my favourite cycle I felt like king kong. I used adex on my first cycle with 500mg and my joints felt like **** and my skin was as dry as hell until I ceased using it i used 0.5mg e3d too. I've run test 600mg and tren 600mg no ai and had no issues but the night sweats and anger were absolute 10/10. I've used anadrol, dianabol and anavar. I've run test p/tren a/mast p for 8 weeks either 3 or 4 times and I found at 350mg of each I had no sides but I was also pinning ED. I plan on keeping my dosages fairly low from now on considering I haven't cycled for a few years now. I'm 30 years old and no I'm not on TRT, had bloods done Feb 2020 and everything come back in the range of normal but I'm currently trying to find a private blood test in the UK just be sure before I cycle and I also plan on doing them again 4-6 weeks after PCT to see how I've recovered.

My thoughts on ostarine were just to aid with fat loss throughout and to also aid my joints, tendons ligaments ect.

Thanks again.

I’m in the uk and use medichecks for all my bloods bro, it’s pretty quick and they normally have 20 or 25% off every 6 weeks or so (the tests can be used within 6 months so I just get one discounted and use when I need) - you do need to do the blood draw at home though (or pay for that as well - I have access to doctors who do it for me)

yeah definitely wouldn’t run the osta. GH would be a good addition imo.

I also wouldn’t do 16 weeks if your planning to pct off - the longer your suppressed for the harder the recovery and the more likely you won’t recover back to current levels. I’d stick to 12 weeks personally (I blast and cruise now but when I cycled off I stick to 10 or 12 weeks).

id also switch the test e to prop for last 4 weeks to reduce the clearance time so you can pct sober after last pin, recover quicker and keep more gains. E is 4-5 weeks clearance, prop is more like a week and would align with the ace and orals.

hope that helps

 

[Hyde]

To be fair I found it to be decent in maintaining mm on a cut, even as low dose as 15 mg. Not to say there aren't better and healthier options for that. Also the 15 mg had my shbg at 8 nmol/l (ref 15 - 95), but again better options for lowering shbg too.

Right, it can be used to retain muscle, but quoting yourself there are always simply better or healthier options.

 

[Jj1991]

I’m in the uk and use medichecks for all my bloods bro, it’s pretty quick and they normally have 20 or 25% off every 6 weeks or so (the tests can be used within 6 months so I just get one discounted and use when I need) - you do need to do the blood draw at home though (or pay for that as well - I have access to doctors who do it for me)

yeah definitely wouldn’t run the osta. GH would be a good addition imo.

I also wouldn’t do 16 weeks if your planning to pct off - the longer your suppressed for the harder the recovery and the more likely you won’t recover back to current levels. I’d stick to 12 weeks personally (I blast and cruise now but when I cycled off I stick to 10 or 12 weeks).

id also switch the test e to prop for last 4 weeks to reduce the clearance time so you can pct sober after last pin, recover quicker and keep more gains. E is 4-5 weeks clearance, prop is more like a week and would align with the ace and orals.

hope that helps

I'll have a look at medichecks today and see if I can get one booked thank you very much for that. I will probably pay extra to have my blood taken though I'm not over confident at the thought of trying that.

In regard's to cycle length my first cycle was 12 week's but my second cycle of test was 14 week's and the test E/tren E were 14 week's. I felt I recovered fine but I did not get bloods done so I have no proof of this other than nuts coming back to size, having a strong libido and feeling "human" if that can even be said. I do realise that I was at the younger side of the 20's when I did this and I may not recover aswell as I did then. I just usually feel the enanthate ester gets to full flow by week 5-6 for me and I like to try get 8 weeks from then on but considering im kick starting with dbol I'll drop it down to 12 week's.

I do not mean to question your knowledge by any means and I may have misunderstood what I've read but I thought it was the cypionate ester that took 4 weeks to clear because it has a half life of 8 days and took up to 28 days or 4 weeks but I've read enanthate has a 4.5 day half life and took up to 14 days to clear? I've always done PCT 2 weeks after last jab when using enanthate? Again forgive me if I'm wrong because I'm here for advice but I would have thought If my test dose is 400mg per week then test enanthate @ 400mg after 4.5 days should leave 200mg? 4.5 days after should leave 100mg? 4.5 days after that should leave 50mg of testosterone in my system? Three half life's would be 13.5 days and I would assume those test levels would be ok to start PCT? I'm by no means stating what I have wrote is correct it is just my understanding from what I have read. That's mainly the reason I have never tried equipiose or nandrolone I didn't want to use a compound I had to stop 4-6 weeks sooner than test enanthate and I've yet try NPP.

Thanks again for your advice!

 

[Whisky]

I'll have a look at medichecks today and see if I can get one booked thank you very much for that. I will probably pay extra to have my blood taken though I'm not over confident at the thought of trying that.

In regard's to cycle length my first cycle was 12 week's but my second cycle of test was 14 week's and the test E/tren E were 14 week's. I felt I recovered fine but I did not get bloods done so I have no proof of this other than nuts coming back to size, having a strong libido and feeling "human" if that can even be said. I do realise that I was at the younger side of the 20's when I did this and I may not recover aswell as I did then. I just usually feel the enanthate ester gets to full flow by week 5-6 for me and I like to try get 8 weeks from then on but considering im kick starting with dbol I'll drop it down to 12 week's.

I do not mean to question your knowledge by any means and I may have misunderstood what I've read but I thought it was the cypionate ester that took 4 weeks to clear because it has a half life of 8 days and took up to 28 days or 4 weeks but I've read enanthate has a 4.5 day half life and took up to 14 days to clear? I've always done PCT 2 weeks after last jab when using enanthate? Again forgive me if I'm wrong because I'm here for advice but I would have thought If my test dose is 400mg per week then test enanthate @ 400mg after 4.5 days should leave 200mg? 4.5 days after should leave 100mg? 4.5 days after that should leave 50mg of testosterone in my system? Three half life's would be 13.5 days and I would assume those test levels would be ok to start PCT? I'm by no means stating what I have wrote is correct it is just my understanding from what I have read. That's mainly the reason I have never tried equipiose or nandrolone I didn't want to use a compound I had to stop 4-6 weeks sooner than test enanthate and I've yet try NPP.

Thanks again for your advice!

hey bro. On the half life your right E is a bit shorter than cyp (I thought 5 days but there or thereabouts anyway with cyp at 7-9) - there is an individuality to it as we all metabolise drugs at slightly different rates but the key is that it’s normally 5 half lives to clear a compound to insignificant levels (50mg test in your example isn’t far off some trt doses for example, some guys on here use 75mg a week trt). So E would be more like 3 weeks min to 4 weeks.

lots of stuff out there does say start pct after 2 weeks and in theory there’s nothing wrong with that, it’s that that for the first 1 to 2 weeks, maybe even 3 weeks it’s not effective so if pct is only 4 weeks people miss most of the benefits

it’s why I’d personally switch to prop, 1 day half life max.

yeah I don’t take my own blood, I’m not confident with that. I have doctor friends who know what I do who do the draw free for me which is handy.

on the cycle length, there isn’t a hard and fast rule on it, forgive me if it came across like that. It’s really just an increasing/decreasing risk thing. I’ve blasted and cruised for a few years so I’ve significantly increased the risk that I don’t recover a normal natural level if I decide to come off, but plenty of guys stay on for years, come off and get back to normal levels. At the other end there’s 20yr olds who run one 8 week cycle and end up on trt. Those are the extremes, imo (just based on what I personally see) the longer you suppress natural production the less likely it is to return to your baseline, the more likely outcome is you get back to a lower natural level than you had before, you do that over a number of years and eventually that level becomes low enough to need trt.

there’s no rules though bro, you may very possibly recover fine off 16 weeks, personally I’d rather people play it on the safer side or at least go into it accepting the potential trt risk and being cool with that (as if that doesn’t occur then it’s a bonus). Of course in the uk trt isn’t as easy but seems to be becoming more so, a uk guy on another thread found a good men’s health clinic down south that seemed really decent so hopefully we are moving in the right direction

 

[Dmzjne]

Can ostarine be run for 16 weeks? I know people run it for 8-12 weeks but I'm planning a 16 week cycle and I want to use it throughout.

What's the general opinion on tren ace @ .25ml pinned subq ED? I was thinking of "micro dosing" it into my cycle but I'm sick of IM Injection's 7 days a week it's shite and no one will ever convince me otherwise. Twice a week is enough for me from now on.

Thoughts on anavar and ostarine been run at the same time on cycle? Will they work together or just over kill?

Yes Ostarine CAN be run (low dose) almost indefinitely; in addition to Test. However this would be more for clinical reasons, like healing an injury. THEN maybe I could understand running low dose/ long duration.

But adding to test/ tren/ anavar? You answered your own question; overkill. Ostarine is basically the anavar of SARMs. Both highly anabolic/ low androgenic compounds. I'm currently having success with this new version, OTR - AC. Not much info, but this write up is from umbrella labs. Invalid Link Removed Not that I trust umbrella labs. Lol

And Tren Ace is best pinned EOD. Into the muscle; because Tren A (other than maybe TNE/ test prop) has a reputation for increasing site growth. AAS is for IM injections. There's just too many variables; when going subq

 

[Jj1991]

hey bro. On the half life your right E is a bit shorter than cyp (I thought 5 days but there or thereabouts anyway with cyp at 7-9) - there is an individuality to it as we all metabolise drugs at slightly different rates but the key is that it’s normally 5 half lives to clear a compound to insignificant levels (50mg test in your example isn’t far off some trt doses for example, some guys on here use 75mg a week trt). So E would be more like 3 weeks min to 4 weeks.

lots of stuff out there does say start pct after 2 weeks and in theory there’s nothing wrong with that, it’s that that for the first 1 to 2 weeks, maybe even 3 weeks it’s not effective so if pct is only 4 weeks people miss most of the benefits

it’s why I’d personally switch to prop, 1 day half life max.

yeah I don’t take my own blood, I’m not confident with that. I have doctor friends who know what I do who do the draw free for me which is handy.

on the cycle length, there isn’t a hard and fast rule on it, forgive me if it came across like that. It’s really just an increasing/decreasing risk thing. I’ve blasted and cruised for a few years so I’ve significantly increased the risk that I don’t recover a normal natural level if I decide to come off, but plenty of guys stay on for years, come off and get back to normal levels. At the other end there’s 20yr olds who run one 8 week cycle and end up on trt. Those are the extremes, imo (just based on what I personally see) the longer you suppress natural production the less likely it is to return to your baseline, the more likely outcome is you get back to a lower natural level than you had before, you do that over a number of years and eventually that level becomes low enough to need trt.

there’s no rules though bro, you may very possibly recover fine off 16 weeks, personally I’d rather people play it on the safer side or at least go into it accepting the potential trt risk and being cool with that (as if that doesn’t occur then it’s a bonus). Of course in the uk trt isn’t as easy but seems to be becoming more so, a uk guy on another thread found a good men’s health clinic down south that seemed really decent so hopefully we are moving in the right direction

Good morning, thanks again for your reply! I think for this cycle I'll meet in the middle and do 3 weeks clearance time before PCT and check my bloods after cycle see how they compare to the pre cycle bloods.

Yes I understand where your coming from with recovery. Im going to take your advice and run it for 12 weeks. 100% recovery has to outweigh a shitty recovery for 2 weeks more worth of gains at which point they slow down anyway. Would it really be worth switching to prop for the last 3-4 weeks or just let my enanthate levels diminish and run var all the way up to PCT to maintain muscle mass/LBM while the test declines? I only ask because I've already bought my test enanthate and anavar but I still need to source good tren if I'm going to use it and 5-10mg dianabol tabs, I can certainly buy some prop though I just hate them EOD injections lol

I don't mean to sound like a clown that can't make his mind up either but I asked about subQ tren and it appears a few of you suggest IM is better. Would 200mg of tren E be worth using in your opinion? I don't want or expect tren to be doing all the work in my cycle but do you think I would notice it? Also pin twice a week for stable levels? I promised myself I wouldn't use tren again because I don't intend to compete or anything so it's not worth it but fuckkkkk it well outweighs all gear for gains in my opinion and I keep finding myself looking down the same road. I mean a buddy of mine was suggesting to run test E(350mg)/low dose deca(200mg)/high dose primo(600mg) to somewhat mimick a cycle of test/tren without the sides but primo E is 100mg/ml and £80 for 10ml so the cost is shocking to say the least. I'm pondering if 400mg test/200mg tren would produce the same results with no noticeable side effects due to the tren been dosed so low?

 

[Whisky]

Good morning, thanks again for your reply! I think for this cycle I'll meet in the middle and do 3 weeks clearance time before PCT and check my bloods after cycle see how they compare to the pre cycle bloods.

Yes I understand where your coming from with recovery. Im going to take your advice and run it for 12 weeks. 100% recovery has to outweigh a shitty recovery for 2 weeks more worth of gains at which point they slow down anyway. Would it really be worth switching to prop for the last 3-4 weeks or just let my enanthate levels diminish and run var all the way up to PCT to maintain muscle mass/LBM while the test declines? I only ask because I've already bought my test enanthate and anavar but I still need to source good tren if I'm going to use it and 5-10mg dianabol tabs, I can certainly buy some prop though I just hate them EOD injections lol

I don't mean to sound like a clown that can't make his mind up either but I asked about subQ tren and it appears a few of you suggest IM is better. Would 200mg of tren E be worth using in your opinion? I don't want or expect tren to be doing all the work in my cycle but do you think I would notice it? Also pin twice a week for stable levels? I promised myself I wouldn't use tren again because I don't intend to compete or anything so it's not worth it but fuckkkkk it well outweighs all gear for gains in my opinion and I keep finding myself looking down the same road. I mean a buddy of mine was suggesting to run test E(350mg)/low dose deca(200mg)/high dose primo(600mg) to somewhat mimick a cycle of test/tren without the sides but primo E is 100mg/ml and £80 for 10ml so the cost is shocking to say the least. I'm pondering if 400mg test/200mg tren would produce the same results with no noticeable side effects due to the tren been dosed so low?

Hey bro,

Hopefully this covers all the questions:

- test prop. Nope you don’t need to switch to prop, plenty of guys don’t. My personal view (I’m not that smart but listen to smart guys) is that if your going to pct off completely it makes sense to clear the eater as quick as possible so your natural production can restart (that can’t happen while you have exogenous test in your system). It’s a similar reason to having a shorter cycle length overall but there is also the logic of spending less time with sub optimal hormone levels (which makes it harder to maintain mass/keep fat down etc). Hear you on the EOD pinning though, not a fan of that either but it is what it is.

tren - 200mg definitely enough to notice it imo. A lot of guys would suggest that’s a good level to run it at and not even that low a dose. It’s enough to notice the sides as well for sure but it should mitigate to some degree. Tren e is said to have less sides (only ran ace myself but will use e for my summer cut this year). I love deca (I respond well to 19nors generally) but it’s a different compound to tren imo. I’ve not run primo yet but based on what I know I’m not sure it would mimic test and tren. Sides not always that bad on tren though, I’m side tolerant generally and didn’t find tren ace to be too problematic. If you wanted to lean bulk I’d use test, deca, primo. If you want to recomp or cut id use test and tren.

IM vs Sub Q - tougher question. Trend recently is for more guys to go sub q to avoid scar tissue. With trt test doses some studies suggest more stable levels, lower estrogen conversion and higher test but a little bit of conflicting info out there. My personal experience is that it doesn’t make much different for test (but I do my cruise dose sub q to give the muscles a break). The volume is in my opinion the bigger issue. Anything over 0.5ml is ‘lumpy’ sub q and personally I stick anything over 0.5ml IM (I’ll mix compounds and do up for 3ml in VG or glutes). I have tried tren ace, test prop and mast ace sub q before but found I was getting a bit of inflammation (not infection) fairly often so I stopped. I’ve seen others say they get that off short esters sub q but I’ve never found a reason why. My guess was that the solvent used on the TTM blend I had was causing the issue (blends often use more solvent to get it to mix)

hope that helps

 

[Dmzjne]

So osta crushes the lipids?

No. Ostarine @ a clinical dose (2.5 mg, 5 mg, 10mg) will actually do the opposite and improve heart/ cardiovascular health. When you start taking larger doses (20 mg +), then for sure lipids could be skewed.

I had a buddy/ guru of mine. He was diagnosed with Afib, however never smoked and was always an athlete. He played football at LSU and did some bodybuilding back in the day. He chalked it up to a combination of Deca and cortisone shots, causing his Afib later in life.

Now the actual trials for Ostarine turned up NO benefit on heart health. But according to my friend, the Osta did indeed (combined with some lifestyle changes) allow him to stop taking statins/ other prescription drugs. And he was monitoring his heart health very closely (this guy is a big shot attorney, and has best of the best doctors). Just goes to show that even in the literature, SARMs are still highly misunderstood

 

[Dmzjne]

Good morning, thanks again for your reply! I think for this cycle I'll meet in the middle and do 3 weeks clearance time before PCT and check my bloods after cycle see how they compare to the pre cycle bloods.

Yes I understand where your coming from with recovery. Im going to take your advice and run it for 12 weeks. 100% recovery has to outweigh a shitty recovery for 2 weeks more worth of gains at which point they slow down anyway. Would it really be worth switching to prop for the last 3-4 weeks or just let my enanthate levels diminish and run var all the way up to PCT to maintain muscle mass/LBM while the test declines? I only ask because I've already bought my test enanthate and anavar but I still need to source good tren if I'm going to use it and 5-10mg dianabol tabs, I can certainly buy some prop though I just hate them EOD injections lol

I don't mean to sound like a clown that can't make his mind up either but I asked about subQ tren and it appears a few of you suggest IM is better. Would 200mg of tren E be worth using in your opinion? I don't want or expect tren to be doing all the work in my cycle but do you think I would notice it? Also pin twice a week for stable levels? I promised myself I wouldn't use tren again because I don't intend to compete or anything so it's not worth it but fuckkkkk it well outweighs all gear for gains in my opinion and I keep finding myself looking down the same road. I mean a buddy of mine was suggesting to run test E(350mg)/low dose deca(200mg)/high dose primo(600mg) to somewhat mimick a cycle of test/tren without the sides but primo E is 100mg/ml and £80 for 10ml so the cost is shocking to say the least. I'm pondering if 400mg test/200mg tren would produce the same results with no noticeable side effects due to the tren been dosed so low?

Basically yes, test E/tren E would work better in terms of sustaining blood levels. You can pin 1 cc of each, once a week. So if you don't want to pin very frequently, this is your best option. Kickstart with your dbol and finish with your anavar. Keep it simple brother!

Drop the deca unless your powerlifting. Drop the primo, unless your bodybuilding. And don't be so worriesome towards side effects. There is no free lunch with ANY anabolic androgenic compound

 

[Jj1991]

Basically yes, test E/tren E would work better in terms of sustaining blood levels. You can pin 1 cc of each, once a week. So if you don't want to pin very frequently, this is your best option. Kickstart with your dbol and finish with your anavar. Keep it simple brother!

Drop the deca unless your powerlifting. Drop the primo, unless your bodybuilding. And don't be so worriesome towards side effects. There is no free lunch with ANY anabolic androgenic compound

I won't be using Deca it was just a suggestion from a friend. I think I'm going to keep it simple as you say. 12 weeks test E 12 weeks tren E kick with dbol and finish with var.

I used to always pin enanthate once per week but recently I've been reading that pinning once per week will give you the same results for growing muscle ect but twice a week offers much more stable levels reducing test/estrogen spikes which would in turn keep and any tren sides at bay?

I don't suppose your buddy has run cardarine with tren? I've never used it but I have read alot about it aiding a cycle that involves tren? I've also read it's carcogenic? This was at a ridiculous dose in rats though with no human studies?

Apologies for the consistent questions this forum is a wealth of knowledge in comparison to others.

Thanks again

 

[Jj1991]

Hey bro,

Hopefully this covers all the questions:

- test prop. Nope you don’t need to switch to prop, plenty of guys don’t. My personal view (I’m not that smart but listen to smart guys) is that if your going to pct off completely it makes sense to clear the eater as quick as possible so your natural production can restart (that can’t happen while you have exogenous test in your system). It’s a similar reason to having a shorter cycle length overall but there is also the logic of spending less time with sub optimal hormone levels (which makes it harder to maintain mass/keep fat down etc). Hear you on the EOD pinning though, not a fan of that either but it is what it is.

tren - 200mg definitely enough to notice it imo. A lot of guys would suggest that’s a good level to run it at and not even that low a dose. It’s enough to notice the sides as well for sure but it should mitigate to some degree. Tren e is said to have less sides (only ran ace myself but will use e for my summer cut this year). I love deca (I respond well to 19nors generally) but it’s a different compound to tren imo. I’ve not run primo yet but based on what I know I’m not sure it would mimic test and tren. Sides not always that bad on tren though, I’m side tolerant generally and didn’t find tren ace to be too problematic. If you wanted to lean bulk I’d use test, deca, primo. If you want to recomp or cut id use test and tren.

IM vs Sub Q - tougher question. Trend recently is for more guys to go sub q to avoid scar tissue. With trt test doses some studies suggest more stable levels, lower estrogen conversion and higher test but a little bit of conflicting info out there. My personal experience is that it doesn’t make much different for test (but I do my cruise dose sub q to give the muscles a break). The volume is in my opinion the bigger issue. Anything over 0.5ml is ‘lumpy’ sub q and personally I stick anything over 0.5ml IM (I’ll mix compounds and do up for 3ml in VG or glutes). I have tried tren ace, test prop and mast ace sub q before but found I was getting a bit of inflammation (not infection) fairly often so I stopped. I’ve seen others say they get that off short esters sub q but I’ve never found a reason why. My guess was that the solvent used on the TTM blend I had was causing the issue (blends often use more solvent to get it to mix)

hope that helps

Thanks alot for your help and advice mate I really appreciate it. Ordered myself some tren E last night.

 

[Dmzjne]

I used to always pin enanthate once per week but recently I've been reading that pinning once per week will give you the same results for growing muscle ect but twice a week offers much more stable levels reducing test/estrogen spikes which would in turn keep and any tren sides at bay?

For sure twice a week (every 4th day) would provide more stable blood levels; over once a week. For example, I'm running Test C/ Tren A and pinning .5 cc of each; EOD. When you learn (over time), how to pin more accurately; there will be less fluctuations in hormone levels. Again; this is trial and error. As you will find what muscle groups, work best for you; everyone is different.

I don't suppose your buddy has run cardarine with tren? I've never used it but I have read alot about it aiding a cycle that involves tren? I've also read it's carcogenic☠? This was at a ridiculous dose in rats though with no human studies?

Yes running cardarine (gw 501516) will alleviate the cardiovascular effects of tren. However will also cause unwanted side effects, of its own.

IMO cardarine is outdated. I'm running the newer compound gw0742, and having no issues regarding Tren sides. It's slightly more difficult to acquire, but if you look around it's available

 

[KvanH]

For sure twice a week (every 4th day) would provide more stable blood levels; over once a week. For example, I'm running Test C/ Tren A and pinning .5 cc of each; EOD. When you learn (over time), how to pin more accurately; there will be less fluctuations in hormone levels. Again; this is trial and error. As you will find what muscle groups, work best for you; everyone is different.



Yes running cardarine (gw 501516) will alleviate the cardiovascular effects of tren. However will also cause unwanted side effects, of its own.

IMO cardarine is outdated. I'm running the newer compound gw0742, and having no issues regarding Tren sides. It's slightly more difficult to acquire, but if you look around it's available

What would be the sides with Cardarine?

 

[Dmzjne]

What would be the sides with Cardarine?

Cardarine being a first generation ppar agonist. In the body; cardarine is not as selective as first described in the literature.

It can potentially accelerate cancer, by modifying/ regulating ppar activity in cells predisposed to cancer. One thing I noticed was skin cells, as I'm predisposed to skin cancer (had it removed several times). It also can work against strength gains.

There is a handful of natural ppar agonist that work, such as abietatriene. I would only recommend cardarine (or much better GW0742), during use of cardiotoxic compounds like tren

 

[KvanH]

Cardarine being a first generation ppar agonist. In the body; cardarine is not as selective as first described in the literature.

It can potentially accelerate cancer, by modifying/ regulating ppar activity in cells predisposed to cancer. One thing I noticed was skin cells, as I'm predisposed to skin cancer (had it removed several times). It also can work against strength gains.

There is a handful of natural ppar agonist that work, such as abietatriene. I would only recommend cardarine (or much better GW0742), during use of cardiotoxic compounds like tren

Ok. Never heard of it working against strenght gains. I'm aware of the cancer issue, but was under the impression, that the dosing and time period it's typically used does not warrant a concern on that regard. I have been interested to try it, but have not just yet.

What do you think about the SR9009? Can't remember just now if it's a ppar agonist, but iirc it's used for same purposes as Cardarine.

 

[Dmzjne]

Ok. Never heard of it working against strenght gains. I'm aware of the cancer issue, but was under the impression, that the dosing and time period it's typically used does not warrant a concern on that regard. I have been interested to try it, but have not just yet.

What do you think about the SR9009? Can't remember just now if it's a ppar agonist, but iirc it's used for same purposes as Cardarine.

Cardarine should only accelerate cancer in predisposed cells. Not actually CAUSE it. Similar to how IGF1/ GH will accelerate proliferation of benign cancer cells, turning on the genes responsible for causation.

SR 9009 is fantastic stuff IMO. Yes it acts similar in ppar agonism, however the half life is very short. IMO sr 9009 is better for performing enhancing/ gaining muscle mass (in combination w/ AAS). It also increases the mitochondria in the muscle. However pinning 2/3 times a day becomes an issue, and the stuff ain't cheap. It also has to be cycled every 6 weeks; to remain effective

 

[KvanH]

Cardarine should only accelerate cancer in predisposed cells. Not actually CAUSE it. Similar to how IGF1/ GH will accelerate proliferation of benign cancer cells, turning on the genes responsible for causation.

SR 9009 is fantastic stuff IMO. Yes it acts similar in ppar agonism, however the half life is very short. IMO sr 9009 is better for performing enhancing/ gaining muscle mass (in combination w/ AAS). It also increases the mitochondria in the muscle. However pinning 2/3 times a day becomes an issue, and the stuff ain't cheap. It also has to be cycled every 6 weeks; to remain effective

Some interesting info, thanks! I'm mainly looking at Cardarine or SR to help with my cuts as energy can get quite low for me on a deficit. + the possible increase in cardio and improvement (or protection) of lipids are a plus. I'm looking to do orals of either tho and not to pinn.

 

[Dmzjne]

Some interesting info, thanks! I'm mainly looking at Cardarine or SR to help with my cuts as energy can get quite low for me on a deficit. + the possible increase in cardio and improvement (or protection) of lipids are a plus. I'm looking to do orals of either tho and not to pinn.

No problem bro!

I believe Supreme Labs has SR 9011 in liquid. They are probably the only RC I would trust that has SR 9011 in liquid; because the half life/ bioavailability of 9009 is too short.

I would recommend liquid SR 9011 + GW0742 for sure.

 

[Hyde]

Concerning GW and strength:

It’s been my practical experience that it’s going to actually help strength, in the context of a situation where you are using it to allow yourself to complete training volume you otherwise wouldn’t have due to using extreme compounds. Like if I am on M1T and can barely breathe through my workouts, and adding GW allows me to finish my primary strength training at least, that is going to make me stronger than not training or not using the M1T, despite the minute adaptations taking place from the actual GW use.

If you use GW, I would limit use to times when you need that boost. Typically looking at strong orals, after the first few weeks of tren, the end of a diet when deficit is deepest. Or on very long training days, like a strongman event day.

 

[Dmzjne]

Concerning GW and strength:

It’s been my practical experience that it’s going to actually help strength, in the context of a situation where you are using it to allow yourself to complete training volume you otherwise wouldn’t have due to using extreme compounds. Like if I am on M1T and can barely breathe through my workouts, and adding GW allows me to finish my primary strength training at least, that is going to make me stronger than not training or not using the M1T, despite the minute adaptations taking place from the actual GW use.

If you use GW, I would limit use to times when you need that boost. Typically looking at strong orals, after the first few weeks of tren, the end of a diet when deficit is deepest. Or on very long training days, like a strongman event day.

For sure running GW is almost a requirement during strong cycles. I try to keep my dosage between 10 and 15 mg nowadays. I tried the Gw/Sr blend from behemoth. That stuff was like rocket fuel; until I dropped the vial (about halfway through, lol)

For strength gains/ performance enhancing however; I had better results using just high dose SR 9009

 

[Dmzjne]

Ok. Never heard of it working against strenght gains. I'm aware of the cancer issue, but was under the impression, that the dosing and time period it's typically used does not warrant a concern on that regard. I have been interested to try it, but have not just yet.

What do you think about the SR9009? Can't remember just now if it's a ppar agonist, but iirc it's used for same purposes as Cardarine.

Honestly I need to research more regarding cycle length and GW. I'm assuming 6 to eight weeks is the sweet spot. I have used for 12 weeks (during cycle); and noticed hella sides

 

[Jj1991]

Cardarine being a first generation ppar agonist. In the body; cardarine is not as selective as first described in the literature.

It can potentially accelerate cancer, by modifying/ regulating ppar activity in cells predisposed to cancer. One thing I noticed was skin cells, as I'm predisposed to skin cancer (had it removed several times). It also can work against strength gains.

There is a handful of natural ppar agonist that work, such as abietatriene. I would only recommend cardarine (or much better GW0742), during use of cardiotoxic compounds like tren

Just had a quick read of GW0742 but I'll have to dig a little deeper after work tonight. It seems very impressive, more benefits than cardarine without any studies showing cancer? Is this something I can take 10MG ED for my entire cycle? I can't seem to find any data on how long it can be used for.

I've noticed a few have said not to take cardarine for prolonged periods but is GW0742 the same?

Sorry for yet another question.

I'm not sure if this frowned upon I know it is if I was to be asking for a steroid source but I'm struggling to find a source for SARMS in the UK that's third party tested. I've found swisschems, chemyo and science bio through a few Google searches and reviews but I need to pay in crypto or a strange bank transfer is there anywhere in the UK I can just pay by card..?

Again thank you all for your knowledge, help and advice it's priceless.

 

[Whisky]

Just had a good read of GW0742. It seems very impressive, more benefits than cardarine without any studies showing cancer. Is this something I can take 10MG ED for my entire cycle? I can't seem to find any data on how long it can be used for.

I've noticed a few have said not to take cardarine for prolonged periods but is GW0742 the same?

Sorry for yet another question.

I'm not sure if this frowned upon I know it is if I was to be asking for a steroid source but I'm struggling to find a source for SARMS in the UK that's third party tested. I've found swisschems, chemyo and science bio through a few Google searches and reviews but I need to pay in crypto or a strange bank transfer is there anywhere in the UK I can just pay by card..?

Again thank you all for your knowledge, help and advice it's priceless.

hey bro, buying sarms in the UK is pretty easy just because it’s legal. JW supps, powermyself, even predator should all be legit and plenty on here use them (haven’t myself as I just don’t like sarms).

or are you talking about Gw?

 

[KvanH]

hey bro, buying sarms in the UK is pretty easy just because it’s legal. JW supps, powermyself, even predator should all be legit and plenty on here use them (haven’t myself as I just don’t like sarms).

or are you talking about Gw?

Most of them are not 3rd party tested though, since he was asking that. But to go into this a bit deeper, wasn't there a study that showed a very high % of sarms sold being counterfreit/bunk/underdosed/containing something else? Or was that just in the US? I'm thinking that do you trust those shop's sarms just cause they're legit companies in general?

One brand that claims to have 3rd party tested sarms is Game Of Gains, but I think that's the same company as Olympus UK, so yeah don't know about their legitimacy.

 

[Jj1991]

hey bro, buying sarms in the UK is pretty easy just because it’s legal. JW supps, powermyself, even predator should all be legit and plenty on here use them (haven’t myself as I just don’t like sarms).

or are you talking about Gw?

Yes It's mainly gw0742 that I'm after sourcing to be honest. I may just have to have a good dig around the internet and abuse Google search to see what I can come up with. I'm terrified of counterfeit products though that's the main reason I wanted third party testing for peace of mind.

 

[Whisky]

Yes It's mainly gw0742 that I'm after sourcing to be honest. I may just have to have a good dig around the internet and abuse Google search to see what I can come up with. I'm terrified of counterfeit products though that's the main reason I wanted third party testing for peace of mind.

even if someone claims to have third party testing that is easy to fake......

rarely are sarms faked with anything dangerous, just underdosed or just benign filler is the normal issue but that’s just the game we play. It’s the reason I buy gw from my UGL. despite it being available via a host of legal sites (it’s also not a sarm just for clarity....)

 

[Dmzjne]

Yes It's mainly gw0742 that I'm after sourcing to be honest. I may just have to have a good dig around the internet and abuse Google search to see what I can come up with. I'm terrified of counterfeit products though that's the main reason I wanted third party testing for peace of mind.

I will send my source. Third party tested

 

[Jj1991]

even if someone claims to have third party testing that is easy to fake......

rarely are sarms faked with anything dangerous, just underdosed or just benign filler is the normal issue but that’s just the game we play. It’s the reason I buy gw from my UGL. despite it being available via a host of legal sites (it’s also not a sarm just for clarity....)

Yes I understand that it's not a sarm and it's a PPAR? I was just assuming a sarm site would sell it. Im not too clued up on the ins and outs of third party testing I just assumed it was my safest option to get a legit product, thank you for clearing that up for me.

 

[Jj1991]

I will send my source. Third party tested

Thank you very much. I greatly appreciate that mate, I have already cleared up and planned 2 hours of my night after work to go digging up info, so it would certainly save me some time!

Man I wish I joined this forum before now. It has to be said...all of you are extremely knowledgeable, helpful and polite so thank's again.

 

[Whisky]

Thank you very much. I greatly appreciate that mate, I have already cleared up and planned 2 hours of my night after work to go digging up info, so it would certainly save me some time!

Man I wish I joined this forum before now. It has to be said...all of you are extremely knowledgeable, helpful and polite so thank's again.

no worries bro. Everyone looks out for everyone on here and tries to give good honest sensible advice. It’s also nice to have another guy the right side of the pond not many of us on here

 

[Hyde]

Just had a quick read of GW0742 but I'll have to dig a little deeper after work tonight. It seems very impressive, more benefits than cardarine without any studies showing cancer? Is this something I can take 10MG ED for my entire cycle? I can't seem to find any data on how long it can be used for.

I've noticed a few have said not to take cardarine for prolonged periods but is GW0742 the same?

Sorry for yet another question.

I'm not sure if this frowned upon I know it is if I was to be asking for a steroid source but I'm struggling to find a source for SARMS in the UK that's third party tested. I've found swisschems, chemyo and science bio through a few Google searches and reviews but I need to pay in crypto or a strange bank transfer is there anywhere in the UK I can just pay by card..?

Again thank you all for your knowledge, help and advice it's priceless.

I can’t speak on the newest variant of GW, but my general philosophy is to limit use to 10mg for 8-10 weeks tops if using to maintain lipids during a cycle where they will be worst otherwise (at the end if planned properly). If I am not trying to hold lipids or need to fight daily fatigue like from a diet or Tren, I would just use 10mg ONLY on training days, with my preWO. That is the biggest bang for buck to me.

We can’t definitively say it’s NOT a carcinogen, right? We know if you give a LARGE enough dose to rats, it promotes cancer. I mean if you eat BBQ, that’s a carcinogen, right? So do we eat lots of BBQ every day forever? No, we have it when it makes sense and it’s not really an issue. We limit our intake based on our risk assessment.

Just how I see things.

 

[Dmzjne]

I can’t speak on the newest variant of GW, but my general philosophy is to limit use to 10mg for 8-10 weeks tops if using to maintain lipids during a cycle where they will be worst otherwise (at the end if planned properly). If I am not trying to hold lipids or need to fight daily fatigue like from a diet or Tren, I would just use 10mg ONLY on training days, with my preWO. That is the biggest bang for buck to me.

^^^ This. Listen to everything this guy says!

Also regarding GW and strength. Hyde is powerlifting and probably the strongest/ most knowledgeable person on the board. I come from more of a bodybuilding background. So anything regarding strength; I would take his advice over mine!

 

[Jj1991]

I can’t speak on the newest variant of GW, but my general philosophy is to limit use to 10mg for 8-10 weeks tops if using to maintain lipids during a cycle where they will be worst otherwise (at the end if planned properly). If I am not trying to hold lipids or need to fight daily fatigue like from a diet or Tren, I would just use 10mg ONLY on training days, with my preWO. That is the biggest bang for buck to me.

We can’t definitively say it’s NOT a carcinogen, right? We know if you give a LARGE enough dose to rats, it promotes cancer. I mean if you eat BBQ, that’s a carcinogen, right? So do we eat lots of BBQ every day forever? No, we have it when it makes sense and it’s not really an issue. We limit our intake based on our risk assessment.

Just how I see things.

Ok well what I'm kind of taking away from your advice is to start running it from week 4 roughly when the test/tren should be starting to peak and run for 8-10 weeks until pct.
I want it more for lipids/blood pressure ect especially towards the back end when I add anavar. I'm also interested in it's metabolic properties for burning fat.
I'm fairly active in my job and tren at 600mg didn't impact my cardio system too much, 350mg never bothered me at all in that regard either and I plan on using 200mg this cycle. From what I've read alot of people really suffer cardiovascular wise from tren, I've also never had tren cough either which alot of people seem to get.
I'll be taking defend cycle assist from start to finish and that should help somewhat I would imagine but the healthier I can be on cycle the better.

Thank you

 

[Hyde]

Ok well what I'm kind of taking away from your advice is to start running it from week 4 roughly when the test/tren should be starting to peak and run for 8-10 weeks until pct.
I want it more for lipids/blood pressure ect but I'm also interested in it's metabolic properties for burning fat. I'm fairly active in my job and tren at 600mg didn't impact my cardio system too much, 350mg never bothered me at all in that regard and I plan on using 200mg this cycle. From what I've read alot of people really suffer cardiovascular wise, I've also never had tren cough either which alot of people seem to get.
I'll be taking defend cycle assist from start to finish and that should help somewhat I would imagine but the healthier I can be on cycle the better.

Thank you

If it were me, that’s how and why I would be using it, as you described. Victor Black mentioned in a recent podcast that he has anyone using it for lipids specifically only use 5mg daily.

I have always avoided 20mg, as that is 100% dose increase even from 10mg and I can feel the difference 10mg makes in my endurance plenty.

 

[Jj1991]

If it were me, that’s how and why I would be using it, as you described. Victor Black mentioned in a recent podcast that he has anyone using it for lipids specifically only use 5mg daily.

I have always avoided 20mg, as that is 100% dose increase even from 10mg and I can feel the difference 10mg makes in my endurance plenty.

Thats very interesting, can you remember which one so I could watch it please? I would be interested to know if 5mg has any effect on fat loss aswell because the lower dose I can use the better that's for sure. Although it would be nice to feel a boost in endurance at 10mg. After 3-4 weeks I might try 10mg for a few days and see if I can pick up on the difference.

 

[Hyde]

Thats very interesting, can you remember which one so I could watch it please? I would be interested to know if 5mg has any effect on fat loss aswell because the lower dose I can use the better that's for sure. Although it would be nice to feel a boost in endurance at 10mg. After 3-4 weeks I might try 10mg for a few days and see if I can pick up on the difference.

Using GW for appreciable fatloss is a waste of time. Caffeine probably works better. I think in this video Victor even mentions that Telmisartan is actually a better PPAR agonist than GW, if that’s what you are pursuing:

Invalid Link Removed

Grab your popcorn

 

[Jj1991]

Using GW for appreciable fatloss is a waste of time. Caffeine probably works better. I think in this video Victor even mentions that Telmisartan is actually a better PPAR agonist than GW, if that’s what you are pursuing:

Invalid Link Removed

Grab your popcorn

Thank you very much for that link and the straight answer on the fat loss!

 

[Jj1991]

Another question for you guys...so I ordered my dbol and tren it came today but they've sent me t-bol instead of d-bol. Any of you guys have experience with it? I know it's technically dianabol with an atom or carbon removed resulting in less water retention but I'm unsure what dose use t-bol at? I also only wanted to kick start for 4 weeks? I'm a little bit gutted because I love the "on" feeling I get from dbol I'm assuming I'm not going to get this with t-bol but I've never used it.