4 Andro (Oral)
- Thread starter tubzy
- Start date
Afi140
Legend
Probably not reliable ones since hi-tech owns the latent and they use cyclosomal and liposomal technologies in most of their products. Why don’t you want it?
tubzy
Member
Which other ones use liposomal? In the past I used 4 Andro by IML which they used piperine and grapefruit extract as the delivery vehicle but looks like that product is discontinued orally.
I'm concerned with cyclodextrin based on a few studies a came across
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KvanH
Well-known member
LG Science and Steel Supplements have liposomal 4-Andro. You can possibly find more if you Google "4-Andro liposomal".
I haven't read the studies you posted yet, but I've never heard of problems with cyclosome (cyclodextrin + liposomal) andros. Other than the obvious suppression that's to be expected.
Transdermal a no go for you?
If you can order from the UK, which I've seen many members from the US do. You could also go for Brawn 4-AD (Androtest is with cyclodextrin I think).
Aslo as @Afi140 mentioned about the reliability, I have no idea about those products quality, other than that Brawn is generally g2g.
I haven't read the studies you posted yet, but I've never heard of problems with cyclosome (cyclodextrin + liposomal) andros. Other than the obvious suppression that's to be expected.
Transdermal a no go for you?
If you can order from the UK, which I've seen many members from the US do. You could also go for Brawn 4-AD (Androtest is with cyclodextrin I think).
Aslo as @Afi140 mentioned about the reliability, I have no idea about those products quality, other than that Brawn is generally g2g.
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tubzy
Member
Thanks for the feedback. Good idea about checking UK sources. I did come across Brawn but I can't seem to find the "other ingredients" in it so I was skeptical what delivery system they used.
Either way I did come across another brand here which seems to not have liposomal/cyclodextrin
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Not sure how legit they are but going to try it . I don't mind transdermal but I like to stack 4 andro with epi andro at high doses and it's hard to hit that with transdermals (and can be a pain to apply everyday).
Given that I like to use high doses this also increases the amount of cyclodextrin in my body which got me a bit concerned.
KvanH
Well-known member
So is liposomal out of the question also? I thought the cyclodextrin only.
I personally like transdermals, but I can understand seeing it as hazzle.
Iconic Formulations has a transdermal product called Alpha Four which has 225 mg 4-Andro and 100 mg Androsterone in one 'full' serving. You can of course play with the dosing as you like. The transdermals are said to be about twice as effective with the dosing give or take. So 100 mg td would equal to 200 mg oral about.
I don't mind bathing in transdermals so I have used up to 3 transdermals on same run applying twice a day.
Wedgylx
Board Supporter
Maybe its just me, or the fact that this was 10+ years ago - but if I never use another transdermal again thats too soon haha.
I hated the smell, my skill gets so dry and reacts, having to apply and change application sites from time-to-time and let dry before I get dressed.....having boxes of medical gloves in my bathroom and bedroom....im done haha.
I hated the smell, my skill gets so dry and reacts, having to apply and change application sites from time-to-time and let dry before I get dressed.....having boxes of medical gloves in my bathroom and bedroom....im done haha.
KvanH
Well-known member
I definitely get that. And while it may be obvious, since I said I like td's, I've never had any of the issues you prescribed. And I don't use any kind of gloves and don't think I'm wasting any product, while I can see the idea and understand that someone wants to be sure and uses them. Depends a bit on the product, but for example I like the smell of Virtus. I don't use cologne so it works as one also
But sure if oral and td would have completely equal benefits with same dosing and same dosing frequency, I would choose oral. But for the products I've used as td's, the pros outweight the cons for me = )
ndiguy
Active member
The only place that my skin does not tolerate TD's, is my abdomen area. Without fail, regardless of the transdermal, my stomach breaks out in rash and eventually blemishes. Chest, arms, traps, lower body all good to go but regret sets in quickly if i apply to my midsection. Weird.
Wedgylx
Board Supporter
I basically had issues everywhere, tops of my feet were best spot. Traps, inner forearms would always get rashy/dry. Like I said, this was probably 10 years ago so maybe they have improved!
I've always used gloves because I'm cheap and have dry hands in winter - I don't need to be wasting any haha
KvanH
Well-known member
+ the freshly shaved balls.
ndiguy
Active member
True! Luckily, that "discomfort" was very short lived (maybe 30 minutes of regret).
Now if my ballbag broke out in blemishes afterward, I'd likely be scarred for life
tubzy
Member
Wait liposomal is completely separate from cyclodextrin in the delivery system? I thought they were usually compounded together as the formulas I have seen include both.
LG and Steel 4 Andro both have cyclodextrin in there ingredients:
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tubzy
Member
Also, not sure if you guys tried but I also like taking oral because I take it with zinc (oyster extract) at the same time together and I feel the effect mentally and physically much stronger. I'm assuming since zinc helps the enzyme conversion of the prohormone due to its catalyst properties. Can't really time it right when its when TD
KvanH
Well-known member
Well cyclotrexins are a types of sugar molecules bound in large rings (or something like that) and liposome is a lipid encapsulation of a molecule. So they are separate things. Better info here for example:
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Cyclosome combines these two delivery methods.
But you are right. LG apparently has cyclodextrin in their 4-Andro, even though the bottle says Liposome tablets. I just Googled 4-Andro liposome and the LG and Steel popped up, didn't look any deeper, my bad.
It's probably due to Hi-Tech owning the Cyclosome
.
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KvanH
Well-known member
This is interesting. I recently heard from a friend of mine who's a nurse that some doctor told her that other vitamins should not be taken with zinc, cause' the zinc decreases the other vitamins absorption/utilization. Didn't think too much of it since I haven't heard about it before and I would think the supp companies to be on top of these kind of things. But I've been meaning to take a closer look at it. Do you know anything about it?
tubzy
Member
Yes - it definitely can and copper being the most notorious there. as zinc and copper need to be balanced. This is relating to zinc in synthetic form not in whole food form though. That is why I take zinc in the form of whole food (oyster extract) since it has all the cofactors with it (copper/manganese/iron/amino acids etc.) so body can metabolize it properly especially in regards to enzyme function.
So when you take it whole food form like oyster extract you are getting all the minerals in a balanced effect and your body can regulate it. That is why I would never supplement an isolated vitamin, mineral or amino acid alone especially long term because you will create an artificial unbalanced effect in your body. Same concept when you take lysine it will chelate arginine and vice versa.
thebigt
Legend
the iconic formulations black series is a white lotion...for me it actually improves skin.
