Retrospective analysis: vaccinated vs unvaccinated kids
- Thread starter THOR 70
- Start date
ValiantThor08
Board Sponsor
My kids are not vaccinated, and have never of had to give them a fever reducer. Family got COVID, and they were unscathed. They are troopers.
THOR 70
Well-known member
Same brother!
Renew1
Legend
Cliff's Notes version?
I'll eventually go through this, but (IYO) was there an overall result that seemed to show?
I don't have children (to vaccinate or not), but I do try to follow this.
Sean1332
Legend
It indicates that aside from unvaccinated children getting a rare vax-available disease, they're generally healthier than vaccinated kids.
I already had the screenshot available so here ya go!
Invalid Link Removed
Renew1
Legend
Thanks brother!
Dustin07
Legend
THOR 70
Well-known member
This was also a very interesting screenshot I took. Of course it leaves details out but all separations are statistically significant with a high confidence interval except the dermatitis. Sort of hard to read but zoom in and you get the point.
Invalid Link Removed
THOR 70
Well-known member
The more I looked into this study and the investigation site, it seems the Doctor/owner of the clinic is being attacked for “subpar care” for not complying with CDC vaccination guidelines. And by not complying I mean he discusses pro’s and cons with parents and let’s them make the choice. He also seems to have a vaccination schedule that isn’t as aggressive. So no he isn’t an anti vaxxer per say.
More info:
Invalid Link Removed
More info:
Invalid Link Removed
Renew1
Legend
Interesting.
I have my thoughts on vaccinations myself (almost all do).
But one thing I've noticed for sure... Those who oppose the way we currently vaccinate are almost always willing to learn new things, and read new studies, but those who are pro-vaccines (the way it is currently done) can very infrequently be convinced to look at any opposing evidence.
Dustin07
Legend
I always think the discussion is interesting, as I'm a "to each their own" on vaccines. I don't criticize people who do or don't as I just don't have enough information or opinion. But vaccines have been front and center this year and I struggle to accept that I all the sudden need a vaccine for this particular virus.
Renew1
Legend
We have similar thoughts on this.
I just like for people to be informed, and so many times they're just not.
ValiantThor08
Board Sponsor
I like that doctor!
ValiantThor08
Board Sponsor
And what many fail to realize, most that are against unsafe vaccines were once very pro vaccine.
Dustin07
Legend
My wife and I were discussing this philosophically last weekend a bit, and how when we were kids there was no discussion of there being a negative to vaccines. we touched on the speed of information and how fast both good and bad (mis) information travels and how these things can alter peoples perspectives. but we also touched on the fact that more years have passed, we've grabbed more data and it could be that people finally have more understanding of vaccines than they did in the 80s when I was a child of vaccination age.
We also talked about things like Chickenpox. This one is interesting because she's 48 and I'm 38. As far as I know, there was no vaccination for the chickenpox when I was a kid. You just........... got it. which I did. OK, that's fine. But as an adult the vaccine was available for HER kids, so she got it the vaccine at that time for herself as she did not have the pox as a kid and didn't want to risk it as an adult.
it's just sorta an interesting back and forth. I'm an opinionated asshole like you would not believe but vaccinations are something I'm simply not able to get opinionated on for some reason. A friend of mine has a child that suffered severed side effects from vaccinations and now has a lifelong mental handicap, but she said given the info she had at the time, of course she'd do it again. it seemed like the right decision.
As for me and mine, if cops showed up at my door with needles for myself or my son to be vaccinated against a virus that we didn't even know about 12 months ago, I'd introduce him to my AR.
thebigt
Legend
i am older than a lot of you here...my aunt contracted polio as a child before there were vaccinations for it....before her death around 12 years ago at the age of 82 she was considered a oddity, many doctors had never had the chance to examine a person with polio.
she was paralyzed from the waist down as a young child, my mom who was considerably younger would carry her around in a wheelbarrow. doctors wanted to amputate her legs since they just dangled and were completely useless but she didn't want to look like a freak-in her own words.
i had no choice at my age of getting vaccinations and even had more in military, but my wife and i chose to have our children vaccinated.
i am undecided about covid vaccination, but overall based on my personal experience i am pro-vaccination in general, but unlike someone who said pro-vaxxers are closed minded, my mind is open to new info.
she was paralyzed from the waist down as a young child, my mom who was considerably younger would carry her around in a wheelbarrow. doctors wanted to amputate her legs since they just dangled and were completely useless but she didn't want to look like a freak-in her own words.
i had no choice at my age of getting vaccinations and even had more in military, but my wife and i chose to have our children vaccinated.
i am undecided about covid vaccination, but overall based on my personal experience i am pro-vaccination in general, but unlike someone who said pro-vaxxers are closed minded, my mind is open to new info.
Renew1
Legend
I fully respect your decision.
I would never include a whole group in a statement like I made, as it wouldn't be accurate.
But like I said, In My Experience, very infrequently (taken as a whole) can they be persuaded to look at new evidence.
I find this very distressing, because Many of them are good friends of mine.
Dustin07
Legend
for sure. my 11yr old has had all of his vaccinations with no side effects. his cousins have not, also with no side effects. COVID19 just strikes me as particularly odd because it's so incredibly new, I struggle with the idea that something that just popped up MUST be vaccinated against. (I do not get flu shots because to be honest, I think they are gross and I hate needles). We may find that the long term effects of COVID19 truly are horrible like some say. But right now I'm seeing an elderly population in high stress positions recover just fine so I struggle with why I "need" one.
THOR 70
Well-known member
What was your opinion on the data I posted?
thebigt
Legend
well, my mom is in isolation at a assisted living home where she isn't allowed to leave her room [87 years old], i told her the first chance she gets to get the vaccination as that might be the only chance i get to be able to see her alive again...as for me, i am hesitant since i am in very good health for 62---as of this minute i would not get covid vaccination until i see at least some short term reactions from general public--lots of drugs go to market only to find plenty of bad sides that weren't disclosed during clinical trials....this whole issue is so subjective that i wouldn't advise my wife or family members one way or the other--but my wife and kids have been pretty vocal saying they woul not get the vaccination any time soon.
THOR 70
Well-known member
Nice speculative, fear based opinion that every one likes to regurgitate. Please post more valuable information. Pro vaccine or not I don’t care. Just do better than this. Too many people are thinking with emotion (usually fear) and not logic these days.
nostrum420
Well-known member
THOR 70
Well-known member
Institute for Pure and Applied Knowledge...
Seems legit.
You’re right. We should put all our eggs in the one basket we have been trained to trust. CDC...THIS IS THE WAY
nostrum420
Well-known member
You’re right. We should put all our eggs in the one basket we have been trained to trust. CDC...THIS IS THE WAY
I just know you're concerned about confirmation bias and I'm not sure this guy approached his research with an open mind:
Invalid Link Removed
THOR 70
Well-known member
Yes that was a cheeky and immature tweet, but in defense, if anyone thinks vaccines carry zero risk and denies this is not thinking with an open mind either. I’m not grand standing for this doctor specifically. I will advocate for his allowing the parents of his patients to make a choice and not blindly pushing the cdc’s schedule.
nostrum420
Well-known member
That's reasonable but when it comes to biased studies if this is the CEO of the organization that funded the study, I have some concerns.
THOR 70
Well-known member
That’s reasonable and maybe he/or this study isn’t credible.
I’m not trying to deflect, but I do have to wonder what he has to gain by going against the worlds largest corporation that advises us on public health and vaccine schedules? Maybe he wants disease to run rampant idk. Yes, the cdc is a corporation apparently.
nostrum420
Well-known member
Based on a little internet sleuthing, for what it's worth, it looks like this is just his grift. He solicits donations for his NPO from the antivax community and then produces antivax studies.
THOR 70
Well-known member
Gotcha. If his objective was money and he has no conscious it would far more profitable to
simply push vaccines like other physicians. But hey, someone has to prey on the other side. I haven’t looked at his other studies but I’m regards to the one I posted would you say just because data doesn’t look good for the vaccine group than he is anti vaccine? I guess if he was purposefully skewing the data it would.
thebigt
Legend
@nostrum420 for all of my life up to now i have been pro vaccines, but i am not going to get covid vaccination until i see how general public reacts...whats your take?
nostrum420
Well-known member
Actually the data itself isn't that shocking.
If you consider parents who don't vaccinate will contain the sub-group of parents who tend to avoid doctors in general, it makes sense that they would pull the avg Drs visits for that group lower.
Simultaneously, the pro-vax group likely contains the sub-group of helicopter parents who take their kid to urgent care for every sniffle.
If you were to look at the mode instead of the means you'd probably factor those groups and find both groups having a majority that takes there kids in an intermediate amount of the time.
In general it makes sense that vax vs unvax kids would have about the same susceptibility to diseases that have nothing to do with the vaccine.
nostrum420
Well-known member
There are a number of high risk groups going first and I'll be watching those results carefully.
That said, I'm kind of surprised since you grew up in a time when there more side effects from vaccines... although you may also remember iron lungs...
thebigt
Legend
my family and i are outside of those generalizations...
thebigt
Legend
vaccinations were automatic when i was a child...i grew up in a family of what today would be considered pro-vaxxers since my aunt contracted polio as a child.There are a number of high risk groups going first and I'll be watching those results carefully.
That said, I'm kind of surprised since you grew up in a time when there more side effects from vaccines... although you may also remember iron lungs...
THOR 70
Well-known member
I agree to an extent with your interpretation. However, the deltas between the two groups aren’t for sniffles but very serious conditions that would likely be addressed by both groups of parents.
nostrum420
Well-known member
You'd be surprised what parents who don't totally trust doctors and/or can't afford the co-pays will avoid Dr's visits for. My Type 1 diabetes went undiagnosed for years because my parents fell into the latter group.
My parents would not have taken me in for ear pain or a respiratory infection.
THOR 70
Well-known member
Okay maybe your parents weren’t the most attentive and you are speculating, but type 1 can be hard to diagnose in children, I understand ear pain, but highly doubt if you weren’t able to breath your parents wouldn’t take you to receive help. But If so, I’m sorry if you had a rough upbringing. Sincerely.
nostrum420
Well-known member
Not really. Mom was a nurse, so I got pretty good care at home. Respiratory infection would have been cold meds, dermatitis: cortisone cream, same for eczema, ADHD/Behavioral issues would have just have gotten me yelled at, allergic rhinitis: benadryl, etc, etc, etc...
THOR 70
Well-known member
I can see that. I’d be careful to downplay the possibly severity of ADHD out of sensitivity for parents that really struggle with it and yelling might not work
nostrum420
Well-known member
No, I hear ya. I knew a few of the guys who eventually were diagnosed with ADD or ADHD and despite it not working, (you're right about that) the parents still stuck with the yelling at them strategy for a looooong time. I could easily imagine some parents never giving up on "taking care of it themselves."
THOR 70
Well-known member
thebigt
Legend
seriously, when i was growing up in the 60s-70s i didn't know a single kid/person who was diagnosed with add/adhd. it was just considered misbehaving, and punishment was the 'treatment'. it wasn't that the parents of the kids i grew up with were bad parents, unless you consider being to poor for specialized doctors bad parenting....the only time i remember going to a doctor in my youth was to get a physical so i could play sports, and my vaccinations when i was very young.