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Good OTC Anti-Estrogen?

ToDie4Test said:
Interesting. Can this be stacked with Sustain Alpha or is that overkill?
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I think they would compliment each other nicely. I would start .5ml daily and go from there. Don’t want to take your estrogen too low.
 
Just go to the RC companies and peptides section of this forum and buy some Nolvadex. You'll be much happier with it overall, but it will actually work compared to these herbal formulas.

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Renew1 said:
Nolvadex DOES NOT and CAN NOT LOWER ESTROGEN.
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Do you really want to go through this again? With me posting all sorts of studies showing that it does? Nolvadex is as common as chewing bubble gum for a PCT therapy, Everybody uses it and everyone knows it works.
 
StarScream66 said:
Do you really want to go through this again? With me posting all sorts of studies showing that it does? Nolvadex is as common as chewing bubble gum for a PCT therapy, Everybody uses it and everyone knows it works.
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Look bud .... You can post ENTIRE VOLUMES for all the F****s I give.....

That will NEVER, EVER change the REALITY of what a compound DOES and DOESN'T do.

Da*n. Go read some more "studies" or something, and quit posting BS!
 
You are such a pain sometimes @Renew1. Everybody knows Nolvadex reduces estrogen levels since it is a SERM. I'll continue to repost the studies showing Nolvadex's effects on estrogen and you can continue to ignore it I guess.

Selective estrogen receptor modulator activity[edit]

Crystallographic structure of afimoxifene (carbon = white, oxygen = red, nitrogen = blue) complexed with ligand binding domain of estrogen receptor alpha (ERα) (cyan ribbon).[58]
Tamoxifen acts as a selective estrogen receptor modulator (SERM), or as a partial agonist of the estrogen receptors (ERs). It has mixed estrogenic and antiestrogenic activity, with its profile of effects differing by tissue. For instance, tamoxifen has predominantly antiestrogenic effects in the breasts but predominantly estrogenic effects in the uterus and liver. In breast tissue, tamoxifen acts as an ER antagonist so that transcription of estrogen-responsive genes is inhibited.[59]

Tamoxifen has relatively little affinity for the ERs itself and instead acts as a prodrug of active metabolites such as afimoxifene (4-hydroxytamoxifen; 4-OHT) and endoxifen (N-desmethyl-4-hydroxytamoxifen). These metabolites have approximately 30 to 100 times greater affinity for the ERs as tamoxifen itself.[60] Tamoxifen has 7% and 6% of the affinity of estradiol for the ERα and ERβ, respectively, whereas afimoxifene has 178% and 338% of the affinity of estradiol for the ERα and ERβ, respectively.[61] Hence, afimoxifine has 25-fold higher affinity for the ERα and 56-fold higher affinity for the ERβ than tamoxifen.[62] Tamoxifen is a long-acting SERM, with a nuclear retention of the ER–tamoxifen complex of greater than 48 hours.
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But few users really understand how clomid (and also Nolvadex, logically) works to bring back natural testosterone in the body after the conclusion of a cycle of androgenic anabolic steroids. After a cycle is over, the level of androgens in the body drop drastically. The body compensates with an overproduction of estrogen to keep steroid levels up. Estrogen as well inhibits the production of natural testosterone, and in the period between the return of natural testosterone and the end of a cycle, a lot of mass is lost. So its in everybody's best interest to bring back natural test as soon as humanly possible. Clomid and Nolvadex will reduce the post-cycle estrogen, so that a steroid deficiency is constated and the hypothalamus is stimulated to regenerate natural testosterone production in the body. That's basically how the mechanism works, nothing more, nothing less.

...

Both compounds are structurally alike [Clomid], classified as triphenylethylenes. Nolvadex is clearly the stronger component of the two as it can achieve better results in decreasing overall estrogen with 20-40 mg a day, than clomid can in doses of 100-150 mg a day. A noteworthy difference. Triphenylethylenes are very mild estrogens that do not exert a lot, if any activity at the estrogen receptor, but are still highly attracted to it. As such they will occupy the receptor and keep it from binding estrogens. This means they do not actively work to reduce estrogen in the body like Proviron, Viratase or arimidex would (by competing for the aromatase enzyme), but that it blocks the receptor so that any estrogen in the body is basically inert, because it has no receptor to bind to.
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By occupying the binding site of estrogen receptors of a cell without activating them, Nolvadex prevents these receptors from being activated by estradiol. The cell then “thinks” that estradiol levels are very low, and responds accordingly.
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Tamoxifen citrate is a non-steroidal anti-estrogenic drug, used widely in
clinical medicine. It is specifically a Selective Estrogen-Receptor
Modulator (SERM) of the triphenylethylene family, and possesses both
estrogen agonist and antagonist properties. As such, it may act as an
estrogen in some tissues while blocking the action of estrogen in others. In
breast tissue tamoxifen citrate is a strong anti-estrogen, and as a result it is
commonly used in the treatment of hormone-responsive breast cancer in
women. In some cases it is even utilized as a preventative measure, taken
by women with an extremely high familial tendency for breast cancer. In
male bodybuilders and athletes, tamoxifen citrate is commonly used (offlabel)
to counter the side effects caused by elevated estrogens subsequent to
the use of certain anabolic/androgenic steroids.
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I am not sure how Clomid and Nolvadex became so separated in the minds of bodybuilders. They certainly should not be. Clomid and Nolvadex are both anti-estrogens belonging to the same group of triphenylethylene compounds. They are structurally related and specifically classified as selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERMs) with mixed agonistic and antagonistic properties. This means that in certain tissues they can block the effects of estrogen, by altering the binding capacity of the receptor, while in others they can act as actual estrogens, activating the receptor. In men, both of these drugs act as anti-estrogens in their capacity to oppose the negative feedback of estrogens on the hypothalamus and stimulate the heightened release of GnRH (Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone).
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Shall I continue?
 
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Right here in your own study...”Blocks receptors, doesn’t actively reduce estrogen”

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Rad83 said:
Right here in your own study...”Blocks receptors, doesn’t actively reduce estrogen”
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You're cherry picking quotes to fit your own belief system. If you're blocking the receptor sites for estrogen, it can't bind to anything so it just floats around freely. The same thing would happen if you took an anti-androgen. It blocks the androgen receptor sites and so all your testosterone, et al. would not be able to attach to the receptor. That's why it's called a SERM - Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator.

I don't know how to explain this more clearly. This argument is incredibly dumb. If you don't know that Nolvadex blocks estrogen I don't know what you don't understand. Nolvadex has been used as an anti-estrogen by pros and amateurs for decades now, this is old news. I'm not going to argue this anymore because it's just so stupid and a total waste of my time.
 
StarScream66 said:
You are such a pain sometimes @Renew1. Everybody knows Nolvadex reduces estrogen levels since it is a SERM. I'll continue to repost the studies showing Nolvadex's effects on estrogen and you can continue to ignore it I guess.



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Shall I continue?
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None of this says it reduces blood estrogen levels. This bit from what you posted sums it up best:

"By occupying the binding site of estrogen receptors of a cell without activating them, Nolvadex prevents these receptors from being activated by estradiol. The cell then “thinks” that estradiol levels are very low, and responds accordingly."

This is a good way to put it in lamens terms.

Another way to put it: It's like putting duct tape over hallway light switch so your annoying little sister can't flick it on and off a zillion times. Once the duct tape is there the annoying effects of your little sister have been blocked but you haven't actually thrown her out of the house.
 
StarScream66 said:
You're cherry picking quotes to fit your own belief system. If you're blocking the receptor sites for estrogen, it can't bind to anything so it just floats around freely. The same thing would happen if you took an anti-androgen. It blocks the androgen receptor sites and so all your testosterone, et al. would not be able to attach to the receptor. That's why it's called a SERM - Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator.

I don't know how to explain this more clearly. This argument is incredibly dumb. If you don't know that Nolvadex blocks estrogen I don't know what you don't understand. Nolvadex has been used as an anti-estrogen by pros and amateurs for decades now, this is old news. I'm not going to argue this anymore because it's just so stupid and a total waste of my time.
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He posted the facts from your own source.

Nolvadex does NOT block Estrogen.
It SELECTIVELY (hey, right there in the descriptive name!) Blocks Estrogen at SOME sites in the body.

So No ... Estrogen most certainly does not float around harmlessly. It still accomplishes a lot of things ..... Some of them BAD.

THIS is why I won't just let you post your wacky "facts". Because they're not amusing, they can be dangerous to guys on this board.
 
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In terms of efficiency, Virtus is likely the most effective AI you can get over the counter. There are quite a few logs (sponsored and non sponsored) and some have posted blood work.

As for stacking with Sustain Alpha - this would likely be too much - the 7,8 benzoflavone in Sustain Alpha is also a pretty potent AI...don't want to crush estrogen.
 
2nd on the Inhibit E and Virtus!!

Have not tried a BLR product for anti-estrogen but it’s totally worth a look.
My 2¢
 
Afi140 said:
This for sure. If in can keep trest estro sides in check (which it did for me) it can keep almost anything in check imo.

https://www.strongsupplementshop.com/virtus-by-iron-legion
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Seriously? What others AI did you try with trest? I have aromasin but I know it can get very expensive because some people need tons of aromasin to deal with trest.
I should have some Virtus on hand, I actually have some oral flavozole but Virtus is way more potent.
 
Yep
UNX said:
Seriously? What others AI did you try with trest? I have aromasin but I know it can get very expensive because some people need tons of aromasin to deal with trest.
I should have some Virtus on hand, I actually have some oral flavozole but Virtus is way more potent.
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^yep
 
I've done quite a bit of digging in the otc ai:s myself and the same few products allways pop up: Virtus as many mentioned already, BLR Letrone had quite a lot of praise at some point and SNS Inhibit E used to be most recommended few years ago.

I have only tried Virtus out of those and I like it. And I think the flavozole has some studies to back up the efficiency.
 
KvanH said:
I've done quite a bit of digging in the otc ai:s myself and the same few products allways pop up: Virtus as many mentioned already, BLR Letrone had quite a lot of praise at some point and SNS Inhibit E used to be most recommended few years ago.

I have only tried Virtus out of those and I like it. And I think the flavozole has some studies to back up the efficiency.
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I am going to recommend you give Letrone a use! Not only good at lowering estrogen, may raise IGF and improve thyroid function. Gave me that nice dry look when I used. You can use RYAN15 to get a discount on the BLR site.
 
ValiantThor08 said:
I am going to recommend you give Letrone a use! Not only good at lowering estrogen, may raise IGF and improve thyroid function. Gave me that nice dry look when I used. You can use RYAN15 to get a discount on the BLR site.
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Letrone has been in my list for sups to try for some time now. Thanks for the code.

AI:s are a bit more difficult to just give a go than other sups though. If I try some muscle builder or T booster or something and find it not really working, it's just some money wasted, no big deal. But if I have a use for an ai and it doesn't do it's job it can lead to more serious problems. But I most likely will give Letrone a go at some point and I of course allways have some 'heavy artillery' on hand for possible E problems.
 
KvanH said:
Letrone has been in my list for sups to try for some time now. Thanks for the code.

AI:s are a bit more difficult to just give a go than other sups though. If I try some muscle builder or T booster or something and find it not really working, it's just some money wasted, no big deal. But if I have a use for an ai and it doesn't do it's job it can lead to more serious problems. But I most likely will give Letrone a go at some point and I of course allways have some 'heavy artillery' on hand for possible E problems.
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Yup, always have a pharmaceutical, I mean research chemical on hand. I enjoyed Letrone, for what it's worth, and I think you will as well
 
StarScream66 said:
You're cherry picking quotes to fit your own belief system. If you're blocking the receptor sites for estrogen, it can't bind to anything so it just floats around freely. The same thing would happen if you took an anti-androgen. It blocks the androgen receptor sites and so all your testosterone, et al. would not be able to attach to the receptor. That's why it's called a SERM - Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator.

I don't know how to explain this more clearly. This argument is incredibly dumb. If you don't know that Nolvadex blocks estrogen I don't know what you don't understand. Nolvadex has been used as an anti-estrogen by pros and amateurs for decades now, this is old news. I'm not going to argue this anymore because it's just so stupid and a total waste of my time.
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Oh, never mind I see he got banned..
 
KvanH said:
Is the Inhibit E still good? It used to have a lot of praise, but I thought they changed the formula at some point.
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Its dhaa or dehydroabietic acid acid along with other herbs that regulate estro. I'm happy with it at the price point but really think most would be happy with anything suggested except arimistane.
 
Virtus by iron legion is one of the strongest you can get.
 
nostrum420 said:
Another way to put it: It's like putting duct tape over hallway light switch so your annoying little sister can't flick it on and off a zillion times. Once the duct tape is there the annoying effects of your little sister have been blocked but you haven't actually thrown her out of the house.
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How old is the sister?

If 18 or more, pics?
 
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