First Sustanon Cycle

[blasteryui]

I know there are thousands of threads on this so I do apologize for repeating.. I am following the advice of another bodybuilder who has been cycling for several years now and seems to look and feel great. I'm doing my first cycle, he's saying will do this cycle for 18 weeks. Firstly is 18 weeks too long?

I'll be doing it 2x a week, Monday and Thursday. I've noticed in threads upon searching sus cycles, lots of folks seem to say "get test e, don't get sus" does that really matter? I've already bought and injected sus last Thursday, but maybe for future cycles I'm open to test e, what makes it much better in your opinions?

My next question is, my friend tells me to take an AI daily, so I am taking half tab of anastrozole, do you guys also agree with this? Again in some threads, I don't see anybody even mentioning taking an AI daily throughout the cycle, should I also take the AI when I do my post cycle?

My next question is in regards to post cycle, again I'll see some people say take nolvadex.. my friend says do not take nolvadex, and take Clomid and HCG instead. Is HCG absolutely required, or would my balls most likely start up on their own, should i be taking nolvadex with clomid, or just clomid, or why are some people saying just nolvadex?

Thanks guys,

 

[Mathb33]

Hey bro! So first things first your friend is a moron and Just proved you he knows very little about what he’s talking about. Ask him why should an ai be taken daily I’m curious? It’s absolutely not needed. Twice a week on your injection day is fine. In fact the idea with ais is to take as little as possible to keep your estrogen within range and having it slightly out of range is actually going to be very beneficial for gains. Just a little or on the high end of the range. For PCT you’ll get many different answers but people often use clomid + nolva low dose I think or just clomid and hcg is a smart idea it’ll help you recover easier/faster. I’ll let someone else talk about PCT though since I don’t pct anymore.

 

[sloganslimms]

Ok, so I've got a little bit of experience (3 cycles) and done a lot of research so I'll do my best to tell you what I know.
My body responds really well to .5 arimedex 2 times a week when I pin 5-600mg test a week. If I was kickstarting with dbol, I might up it a little. But its adjusted based on high estrogen signs like extra water weight, high blood pressure, itchy nips... and its conversely adjusted to less if you have achy/dry joints or low libido. But blood test is the only way to be sure. Needless to say, it should be tailored to the individual and theres no one size fits all dosage, but your buddy is taking too much.
Now, with the different esters in sust, you might need to ask someone who's run it before, but I'm pretty sure you pin it more frequently than 2xweek because of the test prop, but that's completely a guess. I'd feel more comfortable if someone else answered that.
As far as pct goes. I've used nolva, clomid and HCG... But that was in one pct and I ran the HCG after my last shot of test while the esters cleared. Then 40/40/20/20 nolva and 100/100/50/50 clomid for a 1.5 month pct. I've heard of people doing clomid only and I've always been told not to... Nolva only is fine, but who wants to chance it... especially if you're gonna be shut down for 18 weeks.
Btw... Its suggested to start with 12 week cycles, but I like 16 or 18 weeks better myself.
Do a little more research about the sust timing and do not take advice from your friend. Hes lacking knowledge on some very beginner AAS info.
Best of luck brother.

 

[bad rad]

18 weeks is a long time to PCT from. I'd inject every third day with .25mg Arimidex the same day myself and use hCG to keep the boys humming along.

 

[blasteryui]

Ok, so I've got a little bit of experience (3 cycles) and done a lot of research so I'll do my best to tell you what I know.
My body responds really well to .5 arimedex 2 times a week when I pin 5-600mg test a week. If I was kickstarting with dbol, I might up it a little. But its adjusted based on high estrogen signs like extra water weight, high blood pressure, itchy nips... and its conversely adjusted to less if you have achy/dry joints or low libido. But blood test is the only way to be sure. Needless to say, it should be tailored to the individual and theres no one size fits all dosage, but your buddy is taking too much.
Now, with the different esters in sust, you might need to ask someone who's run it before, but I'm pretty sure you pin it more frequently than 2xweek because of the test prop, but that's completely a guess. I'd feel more comfortable if someone else answered that.
As far as pct goes. I've used nolva, clomid and HCG... But that was in one pct and I ran the HCG after my last shot of test while the esters cleared. Then 40/40/20/20 nolva and 100/100/50/50 clomid for a 1.5 month pct. I've heard of people doing clomid only and I've always been told not to... Nolva only is fine, but who wants to chance it... especially if you're gonna be shut down for 18 weeks.
Btw... Its suggested to start with 12 week cycles, but I like 16 or 18 weeks better myself.
Do a little more research about the sust timing and do not take advice from your friend. Hes lacking knowledge on some very beginner AAS info.
Best of luck brother.

Thanks for all the advice! So let me get this straight, I shouldn't be taking .5mg of Arimidex daily? I should be taking it when I pin? So far I've taken it 3 days in a row.. so instead, I should start off 2x a week, take it the same day that I shoot the test Sus, and then see how my body responds? So I could go to one of those machines at the pharmacy to get my blood pressure checked, make sure its normal, no itchy nipples/signs of fat around the nipples.. and or take less if my joints are achy, low libido, etc..? But for sure 7x a week is not normal to take Arimidex, and should be taken as 2-5 times a week at most?

Next question for this, when I take my final shot of test, do I continue to take armidex while doing PCT for 4 weeks, or when do I stop taking armidex.. Nextly, I haven't read much about people taking nolva and clomid at the same, usually one or the other, but in your experience, taking Nolva only is the better of the two, if i was to only take one? Is Nolva stronger, i had thought clomid was. Finally in regards to HCG.. he was mentioning theirs a few ways of doing it, the longer route and the faster route, with the faster route, you take 10,000 iu over the course of 10 days, is this ok to do? Personally, I'd rather get it over with.. either way, youre saying to take the HCG the same day as your last shot of test, or do you take the HCG the following day after?

Yeah from my earlier research I've heard of 12 weeks, but tbh i'm gonna just try and go for the full 18 or 16. From what I've read about test sus, it seems to be fine to take it twice a week, but yes if anybody else can comment on this, I would love to hear.

This is why I've come on here asking advice because a few things did seem a bit off with what he was saying. I believe i use to read that you would take the AI every other day, not every day.

 

[blasteryui]

18 weeks is a long time to PCT from. I'd inject every third day with .25mg Arimidex the same day myself and use hCG to keep the boys humming along.

Every third day for Sus? I'm a bit confused, so is that still 2x a week? Because that's what I've done so far.. i shot last Thursday, and i plan to shoot tomorrow, Monday. That would be every 3 days? On top of this , youre saying take 1/4th of a arimdex, since mine are 1mg.. cut into 4s, and take that twice a week? That's on the lower amount that I've seen, as the post above was saying to take .5mg, but again I guess this is depending on how your body feels?

 

[bad rad]

Every third day for Sus? I'm a bit confused, so is that still 2x a week? Because that's what I've done so far.. i shot last Thursday, and i plan to shoot tomorrow, Monday. That would be every 3 days? On top of this , youre saying take 1/4th of a arimdex, since mine are 1mg.. cut into 4s, and take that twice a week? That's on the lower amount that I've seen, as the post above was saying to take .5mg, but again I guess this is depending on how your body feels?

All esters spike after injection but the rate of clearance changes based on its length. Every third day helps keep blood levels from swinging too much. This leads to a of sides like acne, more E2, and for some emotional changes. The lower dose AI is to control estrogen, not crush it. You may need more but it's easier to add Ari than wait for your E2 to come back into range. I over respond to AIs so I can't take much and it takes weeks for my E2 to rise.

 

[blasteryui]

All esters spike after injection but the rate of clearance changes based on its length. Every third day helps keep blood levels from swinging too much. This leads to a of sides like acne, more E2, and for some emotional changes. The lower dose AI is to control estrogen, not crush it. You may need more but it's easier to add Ari than wait for your E2 to come back into range. I over respond to AIs so I can't take much and it takes weeks for my E2 to rise.

Am I doing the math wrong though, is Monday and Thursdays not ok.. or do i have to keep changing the day off.. so i shot Thursday, so then i shoot Sunday, then Wednesday, then Monday, etc etc..? I can't just shoot Mondays and Thursdays?

 

[Whisky]

Am I doing the math wrong though, is Monday and Thursdays not ok.. or do i have to keep changing the day off.. so i shot Thursday, so then i shoot Sunday, then Wednesday, then Monday, etc etc..? I can't just shoot Mondays and Thursdays?

monday and thursday each week is fine bro. Difference us insignificant (and you have far bigger aspects to focus on tbh)

sust is ok - the main issue for someone who isn’t cruising and blasting (or on trt) is that the long ester in the mix takes fucking ages to clear, so for over a month when you finish you’ll still have that test suppressing your natural production but the level will be low and you’ll probably feel a bit crap. The aim is to finish and restart natural production ASAP.

A much better plan would be to switch to prop 6 weeks before the end.

18 weeks is a long long cycle, longer you are suppressed the harder it is to recover. I run my bill for 16 weeks but I have no aspiration to recover my natural production and cruise inbetween. I honestly wouldn’t go over 12 if I were you (unless your cool with trt etc)

and yeah your Adex was way way high. In an ideal world you keep an eye out for gyno sides and get bloods. Then only use the minimum amount of ai to keep estrogen in check (I like high end of range or just above myself).

crashing your estrogen is really ****.

 

[blasteryui]

monday and thursday each week is fine bro. Difference us insignificant (and you have far bigger aspects to focus on tbh)

sust is ok - the main issue for someone who isn’t cruising and blasting (or on trt) is that the long ester in the mix takes fucking ages to clear, so for over a month when you finish you’ll still have that test suppressing your natural production but the level will be low and you’ll probably feel a bit crap. The aim is to finish and restart natural production ASAP.

A much better plan would be to switch to prop 6 weeks before the end.

18 weeks is a long long cycle, longer you are suppressed the harder it is to recover. I run my bill for 16 weeks but I have no aspiration to recover my natural production and cruise inbetween. I honestly wouldn’t go over 12 if I were you (unless your cool with trt etc)

and yeah your Adex was way way high. In an ideal world you keep an eye out for gyno sides and get bloods. Then only use the minimum amount of ai to keep estrogen in check (I like high end of range or just above myself).

crashing your estrogen is really ****.

Ok apparently its 16-week cycle, the last 2 weeks were for Clomid pct, according to my friend.
With that being said, with what you said.. do you recommend taking HCG during or after the cycle.. I keep seeing contradicting things, those saying to take it during, but my friend says if I take it during, my balls will shut down so I'd still have to take it after.. so which one really is it?

And in regards to PCT, what am I looking at? Do i need both clomid & nolva, can i take one over the other.. and for how long? My friend takes clomid only, and for only 2 weeks, yet i read you should be taking pct for a month.. theirs so many mixed things, seems like everybody follows things a little differently.

FYI, my friend is a great build, has a child with no issues, so I was prone to take his advice considering his life seems perfectly fine.

 

[Whisky]

Ok apparently its 16-week cycle, the last 2 weeks were for Clomid pct, according to my friend.
With that being said, with what you said.. do you recommend taking HCG during or after the cycle.. I keep seeing contradicting things, those saying to take it during, but my friend says if I take it during, my balls will shut down so I'd still have to take it after.. so which one really is it?

And in regards to PCT, what am I looking at? Do i need both clomid & nolva, can i take one over the other.. and for how long? My friend takes clomid only, and for only 2 weeks, yet i read you should be taking pct for a month.. theirs so many mixed things, seems like everybody follows things a little differently.

FYI, my friend is a great build, has a child with no issues, so I was prone to take his advice considering his life seems perfectly fine.

bro with respect to your friend the dude really hasn’t got a clue. There are people who do well in spite of doing everything wrong (they would do even better if they did it right). There’s not many of them but they exist.

taking clomid for 2 weeks straight after finishing the last pin is literally pointless - you can’t restart your natural production while it’s still being suppressed. You need to wait till the esters have cleared then start pct (and then run longer than 2 weeks for sure.

hcg on cycle is the route a lot of us (inc me) go. It prevents testicular atrophy which makes it easier to then recover in pct. again your friend is just misleading you on this one. You can either use on or in a big dose just prior to pct. you’ll find fans of both methods.

when I used to pct I preferred clomid, more people probably prefer nolva but both work (nolva has less sides for many). I’ve used both together in the past but you don’t need to.

generally bro we all have slight differences on how we do things and there isn’t an exact right or wrong way, but we nearly all agree on some of the core things, like 18 weeks would be too long for a first cycle, like that pct plan you’ve been given being pointless and like just taking 0.5mg adex a day blindly being crazy.

 

[blasteryui]

bro with respect to your friend the dude really hasn’t got a clue. There are people who do well in spite of doing everything wrong (they would do even better if they did it right). There’s not many of them but they exist.

taking clomid for 2 weeks straight after finishing the last pin is literally pointless - you can’t restart your natural production while it’s still being suppressed. You need to wait till the esters have cleared then start pct (and then run longer than 2 weeks for sure.

hcg on cycle is the route a lot of us (inc me) go. It prevents testicular atrophy which makes it easier to then recover in pct. again your friend is just misleading you on this one. You can either use on or in a big dose just prior to pct. you’ll find fans of both methods.

when I used to pct I preferred clomid, more people probably prefer nolva but both work (nolva has less sides for many). I’ve used both together in the past but you don’t need to.

generally bro we all have slight differences on how we do things and there isn’t an exact right or wrong way, but we nearly all agree on some of the core things, like 18 weeks would be too long for a first cycle, like that pct plan you’ve been given being pointless and like just taking 0.5mg adex a day blindly being crazy.

Yes I'm starting to see that he's not entirely understanding how all this stuff works but he has great results, a child, he's ripped so yeah it does work for him but as you said not for everyone.

With that being said, I can technically take HCG during or after, but if I do it during then I'll have a safer bet. So I just have a few more questions, in regards to HCG.. I've already taken two shots of Test Sus during this week, so i'm 2x in.. If I was to somehow get HCG in the next 2 weeks, can I start taking it even though I'm a bit late.. and how much would I take per week? And when would I stop taking HCG, do I continue to take it a week or two after my last Test Sus shot?


And in regards to PCT.. i know it depends on the type of test your taking, so in my case its test sus.. so when would I stop taking my last ai, on my last shot? And then when would I start taking Nolva or Clomid, and whats the doses for either of those.

Thanks for your reply.

 

[Whisky]

Yes I'm starting to see that he's not entirely understanding how all this stuff works but he has great results, a child, he's ripped so yeah it does work for him but as you said not for everyone.

With that being said, I can technically take HCG during or after, but if I do it during then I'll have a safer bet. So I just have a few more questions, in regards to HCG.. I've already taken two shots of Test Sus during this week, so i'm 2x in.. If I was to somehow get HCG in the next 2 weeks, can I start taking it even though I'm a bit late.. and how much would I take per week? And when would I stop taking HCG, do I continue to take it a week or two after my last Test Sus shot?


And in regards to PCT.. i know it depends on the type of test your taking, so in my case its test sus.. so when would I stop taking my last ai, on my last shot? And then when would I start taking Nolva or Clomid, and whats the doses for either of those.

Thanks for your reply.

so on cycle, you can introduce hcg at any point but personally I would (and have) do a couple of pins of 1,000iu to get things started and then drop back to 2x250iu per week for the remaining time (you can run it a few weeks past your last pin.

sust is a bad choice because the decanoate ester has a half life of 15 days so it’s a couple of months to really clear (can vary based on individual aas metabolism), personally I would wait 6 weeks and then run an 8 week pct if I’m in your shoes (but again, I hate this choice of test in this situation, I hate suggesting this protocol for pct, just trying to give you my opinion of how to make the best of it).

clomid is 50mg for a couple of weeks (although in your shoes I’d play it safer and go 50mg for 4 weeks) and then 25mg thereafter (can drop to 12.5 for last 2 weeks but because of the sust I wouldn’t).

nolva is 20mg for first couple of weeks and 10mg thereafter but again in this situation (and I’m saying it as there’s a large window in which the drug can start to affect its purpose) I’d go 20mg for 4 weeks.

the ai is there to serve the purpose of keeping your estrogen at a sensible level, as the amount of test in your system decreases the amount of estrogen should also decrease, you’d want to taper off the dose over a couple of weeks after the last pin and it’s pretty unlikely you’d need any after that.

 

[sloganslimms]

so on cycle, you can introduce hcg at any point but personally I would (and have) do a couple of pins of 1,000iu to get things started and then drop back to 2x250iu per week for the remaining time (you can run it a few weeks past your last pin.

sust is a bad choice because the decanoate ester has a half life of 15 days so it’s a couple of months to really clear (can vary based on individual aas metabolism), personally I would wait 6 weeks and then run an 8 week pct if I’m in your shoes (but again, I hate this choice of test in this situation, I hate suggesting this protocol for pct, just trying to give you my opinion of how to make the best of it).

clomid is 50mg for a couple of weeks (although in your shoes I’d play it safer and go 50mg for 4 weeks) and then 25mg thereafter (can drop to 12.5 for last 2 weeks but because of the sust I wouldn’t).

nolva is 20mg for first couple of weeks and 10mg thereafter but again in this situation (and I’m saying it as there’s a large window in which the drug can start to affect its purpose) I’d go 20mg for 4 weeks.

the ai is there to serve the purpose of keeping your estrogen at a sensible level, as the amount of test in your system decreases the amount of estrogen should also decrease, you’d want to taper off the dose over a couple of weeks after the last pin and it’s pretty unlikely you’d need any after that.

Really Whiskey??? Have you gone that low on serms with success before? I always thought it was double those doses with the same amount of time. 100/100/50/50 clomid and 40/40/20/20 nolva. I prolly over did it though.

 

[blasteryui]

so on cycle, you can introduce hcg at any point but personally I would (and have) do a couple of pins of 1,000iu to get things started and then drop back to 2x250iu per week for the remaining time (you can run it a few weeks past your last pin.

sust is a bad choice because the decanoate ester has a half life of 15 days so it’s a couple of months to really clear (can vary based on individual aas metabolism), personally I would wait 6 weeks and then run an 8 week pct if I’m in your shoes (but again, I hate this choice of test in this situation, I hate suggesting this protocol for pct, just trying to give you my opinion of how to make the best of it).

clomid is 50mg for a couple of weeks (although in your shoes I’d play it safer and go 50mg for 4 weeks) and then 25mg thereafter (can drop to 12.5 for last 2 weeks but because of the sust I wouldn’t).

nolva is 20mg for first couple of weeks and 10mg thereafter but again in this situation (and I’m saying it as there’s a large window in which the drug can start to affect its purpose) I’d go 20mg for 4 weeks.

the ai is there to serve the purpose of keeping your estrogen at a sensible level, as the amount of test in your system decreases the amount of estrogen should also decrease, you’d want to taper off the dose over a couple of weeks after the last pin and it’s pretty unlikely you’d need any after that.

Thank you for the detailed responses I appreciate it.. just want to clarify a few things. When you say you do a couple pins of 1000,iu to start things up, this is during cycle? So say in 2 weeks I get HCG and decide to take it now, how many times a week would I be doing 1000,iu and for how long before I go down to 250?

So what would normally be a 4 week PCT, you're saying I should do upwards to 8 weeks, because the half life is 15 days? I can't get away with a 4 week PCT?

Again of the two, Nolva is technically stronger, but you prefer Clomid, why? I' may end up only using one over the other instead of both.

As for the Ai, i thought i was suppose to stop taking it after the last shot, but youre saying I should continue to take it after my cycle, for 2 weeks..?

Earlier above you were saying to switch to Test Prop for the last 6 weeks, I could possibly end up doing that if I got my hands on it, how much would I be shooting and how often, why would you recommend going the test prop route for the last 6 weeks, would it be the same if I used Test Enthanate...

SORRY for all the questions lol I just wanna do this right and have all the information I need.. my final question is you had said you don't PCT anymore, so you're doing TRT, does this mean you do HCG every week, forever, to maintain the testes, or do you just allow them to stop working? I may be one day interested in doing TRT as my test is on the low end, so curious how that works as a day to day protocol.

 

[Whisky]

Really Whiskey??? Have you gone that low on serms with success before? I always thought it was double those doses with the same amount of time. 100/100/50/50 clomid and 40/40/20/20 nolva. I prolly over did it though.

yeah I’ve never done 100 clomid bro, not really heard of anyone doing that unless as part of a restart protocol. That’s a lot of serm....

likewise with nolva.

I haven’t pct’d for over year but when I did in the past bloods had me coming back fine off that standard dosing (but I wasn’t running sust for 18 weeks out the gate )

 

[Whisky]

Thank you for the detailed responses I appreciate it.. just want to clarify a few things. When you say you do a couple pins of 1000,iu to start things up, this is during cycle? So say in 2 weeks I get HCG and decide to take it now, how many times a week would I be doing 1000,iu and for how long before I go down to 250?

So what would normally be a 4 week PCT, you're saying I should do upwards to 8 weeks, because the half life is 15 days? I can't get away with a 4 week PCT?

Again of the two, Nolva is technically stronger, but you prefer Clomid, why? I' may end up only using one over the other instead of both.

As for the Ai, i thought i was suppose to stop taking it after the last shot, but youre saying I should continue to take it after my cycle, for 2 weeks..?

Earlier above you were saying to switch to Test Prop for the last 6 weeks, I could possibly end up doing that if I got my hands on it, how much would I be shooting and how often, why would you recommend going the test prop route for the last 6 weeks, would it be the same if I used Test Enthanate...

SORRY for all the questions lol I just wanna do this right and have all the information I need.. my final question is you had said you don't PCT anymore, so you're doing TRT, does this mean you do HCG every week, forever, to maintain the testes, or do you just allow them to stop working? I may be one day interested in doing TRT as my test is on the low end, so curious how that works as a day to day protocol.

Haha, lots of questions bro. I’ll try to cover it all off...

so, hcg, I would do 1,000 iu two times in one week (mon thursday for example, then drop to 250 the following Monday and do that Monday Thursday from that point on). This is probably the area where you’ll get a range of views (nearly everyone will agree on the 250 ongoing, but how much to wake them back up initially others may take a different line, I actually did what I’m suggesting earlier this year - more on that below)

the half life is the period of time it take half the compound to clear your system, so if you inject 200mg sust, 15 days later you’ll have 100mg left in you, 15 days after that you’ll have 50 and so on. It takes roughly 5 half lives for the amount left to be insignificant. Whilst you have any reasonable amount of exogenous test in your system your own production will remain suppressed (regardless of the serm), it’s not an exact science as some people clear compounds quicker than others etc but generally speaking you need to wait 3-4 half lives before it’s even worth starting the pct. What you also need to avoid is a situation where you take the serm while the exogenous test is there and finish taking it before it’s cleared as then your hpta is basically trying to do it with no assistance at all (hence I suggested 8 weeks to ensure you get at least 3-4 weeks where we know the sust has cleared.

I personally prefer clomid having tried them both. Neither give me sides and clomid felt like a better recovery (bloods were slightly better off it). Honestly though it’s 50/50 and I’d happily use either. I’d say more people prefer nolva than clomid on AM.

with the ai, you just need it to keep estrogen in check, whether you need it after the last shot really depends on how much you’ve been taking (and bare in mind sust will keep your test higher for longer than something like cyp or e which will decrease quicker). If you’ve not needed to use much ai then after the last shot you probably won’t need any but if you’ve been using 0.5 Adex EOD then you might taper to 0.5mg e4d for a week or so. Personally I just use an ai when I feel the gyno sides appear, I’m not a fan of over use of ai’s. 12.5mg asin 2xweek on a blast keeps me in check.

test prop is a shorter ester, so you’d pin it EOD (or daily - for me daily is too much hard work and imo EOD is fine). Half life is about 2 days so you’d only need to wait 7- 10 days max after the last pin to pct.

how much you pin depends on how much you want to use - not sure you’ve said what dose of sust you were using? You’d just pin the same equivalent mg amount anyway.

test e is a half life of 7 days so most would wait 2-3 weeks to start pct (and then do a 5-6 week pct). It’s a better option that sust by far

and yeah I currently do non prescribed trt (I’ll come off one day and probably be low enough to get a prescription) at the moment. I just use 250iu hcg 2 times a week to keep the boys plump.

I actually stopped with the hcg earlier this year as fertility doesn’t bother me and I was married so didn’t really care about my nuts being shrivelled up.....then found out my wife was cheating on me so I did what I suggested above to get the balls back looking better for the ladies

I personally love feeling 21 again (I’m 38). I do regular bloods and take 6 months of the year where I’m only on a trt dose (or close to, actually sat a touch above range on the last cruise) so I feel I try to mitigate the health risks (which are far outweighed by the quality of life benefits

hope this helps bro

 

[blasteryui]

Haha, lots of questions bro. I’ll try to cover it all off...

so, hcg, I would do 1,000 iu two times in one week (mon thursday for example, then drop to 250 the following Monday and do that Monday Thursday from that point on). This is probably the area where you’ll get a range of views (nearly everyone will agree on the 250 ongoing, but how much to wake them back up initially others may take a different line, I actually did what I’m suggesting earlier this year - more on that below)

the half life is the period of time it take half the compound to clear your system, so if you inject 200mg sust, 15 days later you’ll have 100mg left in you, 15 days after that you’ll have 50 and so on. It takes roughly 5 half lives for the amount left to be insignificant. Whilst you have any reasonable amount of exogenous test in your system your own production will remain suppressed (regardless of the serm), it’s not an exact science as some people clear compounds quicker than others etc but generally speaking you need to wait 3-4 half lives before it’s even worth starting the pct. What you also need to avoid is a situation where you take the serm while the exogenous test is there and finish taking it before it’s cleared as then your hpta is basically trying to do it with no assistance at all (hence I suggested 8 weeks to ensure you get at least 3-4 weeks where we know the sust has cleared.

I personally prefer clomid having tried them both. Neither give me sides and clomid felt like a better recovery (bloods were slightly better off it). Honestly though it’s 50/50 and I’d happily use either. I’d say more people prefer nolva than clomid on AM.

with the ai, you just need it to keep estrogen in check, whether you need it after the last shot really depends on how much you’ve been taking (and bare in mind sust will keep your test higher for longer than something like cyp or e which will decrease quicker). If you’ve not needed to use much ai then after the last shot you probably won’t need any but if you’ve been using 0.5 Adex EOD then you might taper to 0.5mg e4d for a week or so. Personally I just use an ai when I feel the gyno sides appear, I’m not a fan of over use of ai’s. 12.5mg asin 2xweek on a blast keeps me in check.

test prop is a shorter ester, so you’d pin it EOD (or daily - for me daily is too much hard work and imo EOD is fine). Half life is about 2 days so you’d only need to wait 7- 10 days max after the last pin to pct.

how much you pin depends on how much you want to use - not sure you’ve said what dose of sust you were using? You’d just pin the same equivalent mg amount anyway.

test e is a half life of 7 days so most would wait 2-3 weeks to start pct (and then do a 5-6 week pct). It’s a better option that sust by far

and yeah I currently do non prescribed trt (I’ll come off one day and probably be low enough to get a prescription) at the moment. I just use 250iu hcg 2 times a week to keep the boys plump.

I actually stopped with the hcg earlier this year as fertility doesn’t bother me and I was married so didn’t really care about my nuts being shrivelled up.....then found out my wife was cheating on me so I did what I suggested above to get the balls back looking better for the ladies

I personally love feeling 21 again (I’m 38). I do regular bloods and take 6 months of the year where I’m only on a trt dose (or close to, actually sat a touch above range on the last cruise) so I feel I try to mitigate the health risks (which are far outweighed by the quality of life benefits

hope this helps bro

Hey brother thanks for all the help and information. I thought Test Sus was one of the ones that gets out of your body sooner then Test E, this is is why I thought you can inject 2x a week with Test E, but with Sus, its more prefered eod or daily I had thought? So you're suggesting an 8 week PCT, that's quite some time.

That's an interesting story haha, sorry to hear about that though, hope youre going strong after that. I'm 28, so I thought it would be a good time to start my first cycle.. How long have you been running?

I found this Invalid Link Removed
what do you think of this? It's a mix of clomid and tamox, so 30mg per ml.. so a lot of people say take both clomid and nolva at the same time.. Would I be able to take this and if so what would it look like for 4 weeks?

 

[Whisky]

Hey brother thanks for all the help and information. I thought Test Sus was one of the ones that gets out of your body sooner then Test E, this is is why I thought you can inject 2x a week with Test E, but with Sus, its more prefered eod or daily I had thought? So you're suggesting an 8 week PCT, that's quite some time.

That's an interesting story haha, sorry to hear about that though, hope youre going strong after that. I'm 28, so I thought it would be a good time to start my first cycle.. How long have you been running?

I found this Invalid Link Removed
what do you think of this? It's a mix of clomid and tamox, so 30mg per ml.. so a lot of people say take both clomid and nolva at the same time.. Would I be able to take this and if so what would it look like for 4 weeks?

sust is a blend of esters bro, including some long acting ones, it’s decent for crushing or trt as the blend gives stability in bloods and you can pin less frequently. It’s not so good for what you want.

test suspension you might have been thinking but that clears crazy quick and wouldn’t be used for a cycle (just pwo)?

I’m just trying to give you the best chance of helping your hpta recover mate.

I started when I was 35. Had been training hard for a few years without any real progress (diet etc all nailed on). I regain fat very easily as I used to be fat as hell so to get stronger I gained too much fat for my liking. Then cutting it off and I got weak. My genetics are pretty rubbish as well.

you can use both for sure, I’ve done it myself, honestly I didn’t notice a difference from just using clomid but it worked. That blend seems to be 15mg of each per ml so I’d be inclined to go 1.5ml a day first 2 weeks then 1 ml a day. Never seen that particular blend though but that’s what I would do....

 

[blasteryui]

sust is a blend of esters bro, including some long acting ones, it’s decent for crushing or trt as the blend gives stability in bloods and you can pin less frequently. It’s not so good for what you want.

test suspension you might have been thinking but that clears crazy quick and wouldn’t be used for a cycle (just pwo)?

I’m just trying to give you the best chance of helping your hpta recover mate.

I started when I was 35. Had been training hard for a few years without any real progress (diet etc all nailed on). I regain fat very easily as I used to be fat as hell so to get stronger I gained too much fat for my liking. Then cutting it off and I got weak. My genetics are pretty rubbish as well.

you can use both for sure, I’ve done it myself, honestly I didn’t notice a difference from just using clomid but it worked. That blend seems to be 15mg of each per ml so I’d be inclined to go 1.5ml a day first 2 weeks then 1 ml a day. Never seen that particular blend though but that’s what I would do....

Why isn't it good for the cycle I'm doing? That's what my friend uses and that's how I got it, he seems to get good results, btw I'm pinning twice a week 250mg. From what I've read in regards to Test Sus, you're supposed to pin more frequently because of some of the shorter esters. EOD or every 3 days.

 

[Whisky]

Why isn't it good for the cycle I'm doing? That's what my friend uses and that's how I got it, he seems to get good results, btw I'm pinning twice a week 250mg. From what I've read in regards to Test Sus, you're supposed to pin more frequently because of some of the shorter esters. EOD or every 3 days.

think of each ester like a bell curve, the prop has a quick spike and then quick clearance with the decanoate ester being a longer upward and downward curve.

the aim of sust is that the shorter esters hit the peak line quick, then as they are clearing the longer esters are reaching it so it maintains a stable peak level of test and gets rid of the peaks and troughs normally seen (in practice this doesn’t quite play out according to some studies buts that’s the theory).

so you don’t need to inject it that frequently (you can, as long the mg per week stays the same it won’t make much difference, but pinning gets boring real quick )

like I say, with respect to your friend, I’m sure he’s a great guy but based on what you’ve said he is just lucky that no matter how wrong he gets this stuff he is ok. People exist like that, same as some people do everything right and end up on trt after one cycle.

he’s absolutely not clued in on how any of this actually works through bro.

but you definitely shouldn’t take my word (or anyone else’s) on this stuff, hormones are a serious thing to mess with so you should absolutely research this yourself. Check out what you are being told on legitimate medical resources (not just forums) so you can validate things and make sure you are happy with what you are doing

 

[Renew1]

Ok apparently its 16-week cycle, the last 2 weeks were for Clomid pct, according to my friend.
With that being said, with what you said.. do you recommend taking HCG during or after the cycle.. I keep seeing contradicting things, those saying to take it during, but my friend says if I take it during, my balls will shut down so I'd still have to take it after.. so which one really is it?

And in regards to PCT, what am I looking at? Do i need both clomid & nolva, can i take one over the other.. and for how long? My friend takes clomid only, and for only 2 weeks, yet i read you should be taking pct for a month.. theirs so many mixed things, seems like everybody follows things a little differently.

FYI, my friend is a great build, has a child with no issues, so I was prone to take his advice considering his life seems perfectly fine.

No disrespect at all meant to your friend, but I haven't been around him for years, and seen his approach and responses to hormonal questions and situations.
The guys on this board, I Have.

Some of the new guys don't know much (to be expected), but Many of the long-timers on this board have an incredible amount of knowledge.
And for you to be able to access all that knowledge, help, and advice For Free ..... What an incredible gift to you (whether or not you realize it).

 

[blasteryui]

think of each ester like a bell curve, the prop has a quick spike and then quick clearance with the decanoate ester being a longer upward and downward curve.

the aim of sust is that the shorter esters hit the peak line quick, then as they are clearing the longer esters are reaching it so it maintains a stable peak level of test and gets rid of the peaks and troughs normally seen (in practice this doesn’t quite play out according to some studies buts that’s the theory).

so you don’t need to inject it that frequently (you can, as long the mg per week stays the same it won’t make much difference, but pinning gets boring real quick )

like I say, with respect to your friend, I’m sure he’s a great guy but based on what you’ve said he is just lucky that no matter how wrong he gets this stuff he is ok. People exist like that, same as some people do everything right and end up on trt after one cycle.

he’s absolutely not clued in on how any of this actually works through bro.

but you definitely shouldn’t take my word (or anyone else’s) on this stuff, hormones are a serious thing to mess with so you should absolutely research this yourself. Check out what you are being told on legitimate medical resources (not just forums) so you can validate things and make sure you are happy with what you are doing

I really hope I don't need TRT after one cycle . So far it's 500mg of Test Sus per week. With that being said though how come youre saying Sus isn't great for my first cycle, compared to Test E or another form, will I not more or less get the same results? My friend has run Test E, but he swears by Sus working better for him.

Btw, I was on another forum where two people have told me to not take an AI or HCG for a first cycle.. for the AI, he said just take it if you start to get sides but if you don't get any sides, don't take it at all.. which contradicts a lot of what others are saying.. Him and someone else said this, one of them has 13 thousand posts, the other has 7 thousand.. so it seems like they have knowledge but what do you think of these statements?

Here's the thread
Invalid Link Removed

 

[Renew1]

I really hope I don't need TRT after one cycle . So far it's 500mg of Test Sus per week. With that being said though how come youre saying Sus isn't great for my first cycle, compared to Test E or another form, will I not more or less get the same results? My friend has run Test E, but he swears by Sus working better for him.

Btw, I was on another forum where two people have told me to not take an AI or HCG for a first cycle.. for the AI, he said just take it if you start to get sides but if you don't get any sides, don't take it at all.. which contradicts a lot of what others are saying.. Him and someone else said this, one of them has 13 thousand posts, the other has 7 thousand.. so it seems like they have knowledge but what do you think of these statements?

Here's the thread
Invalid Link Removed

A couple of the guys on the other forum explained why Sust isn't the best option for a first cycle (and I agree).

AI .... I personally Usually recommend taking one only if necessary.
Opinions vary on this, as newer guys aren't always sure when they need one.

You said your friend recommended a 2 week PCT.
That's bad advice, man.
4 weeks (at least).
If you use Nolva (which I personally recommend), I'd do 40mgs the first 2 weeks and 20mgs the second two weeks, if you're going to run a long cycle.

You'll probably recover fine.
But understand, length of cycle is one of the factors in determining how well a person recovers from a cycle.

 

[Whisky]

Bro I’m gonna try a graph to explain sust.....

This shows the test levels (for a trt dose, the chart would be the same for you, just higher levels). After 3.5 days the test level has barely dropped (hell even after 7 days it’s around half peak). That’s why you only need to pin a couple of times a week at most

on the ai the guys are saying what I said above, just take if sides show up. Ai use is very individual, some guys would need to use some on 200mg a week, some guys need none on 600mg a week. It’s a huge range and no one can tell how much you will need.

estrogen is important and crushing it is ****. The nipple sensitivity and soft lump forming behind it is pretty easy to feel so you can quickly address it when you need to.

 

[blasteryui]

Bro I’m gonna try a graph to explain sust.....

This shows the test levels (for a trt dose, the chart would be the same for you, just higher levels). After 3.5 days the test level has barely dropped (hell even after 7 days it’s around half peak). That’s why you only need to pin a couple of times a week at most

on the ai the guys are saying what I said above, just take if sides show up. Ai use is very individual, some guys would need to use some on 200mg a week, some guys need none on 600mg a week. It’s a huge range and no one can tell how much you will need.

estrogen is important and crushing it is ****. The nipple sensitivity and soft lump forming behind it is pretty easy to feel so you can quickly address it when you need to.

I have noticed my left nipple is itchy this week, so that basically means I need to up my AI take? I see your graph and I kinda get what you're saying in regards to the esters working together, one releasing fast, some releasing slower.. but what I'm not seeing is why you're saying it's not a good drug to cycle on, just because it stays in my body longer than say Test E would? By which btw, I have two bottles of Test Sus that I'm going to finish since I have it.. but let's say I grab a third bottle now, what would you recommend I grab, and I would take 500mg of that to finish my cycle?

 

[blasteryui]

A couple of the guys on the other forum explained why Sust isn't the best option for a first cycle (and I agree).

AI .... I personally Usually recommend taking one only if necessary.
Opinions vary on this, as newer guys aren't always sure when they need one.

You said your friend recommended a 2 week PCT.
That's bad advice, man.
4 weeks (at least).
If you use Nolva (which I personally recommend), I'd do 40mgs the first 2 weeks and 20mgs the second two weeks, if you're going to run a long cycle.

You'll probably recover fine.
But understand, length of cycle is one of the factors in determining how well a person recovers from a cycle.

Question for you rewnew, I'm going onto my second week of Test Sus.. but haven't been taking HCG. I'm going to try and get some asap, if I have some for next week, or the following week after, how much would I do? Would i still do 250iu a week, or do I have to do more the first week, and I take HCG until my last shot, and then what, another week or two after my final shot? Then after my final HCG shot, do I start Nolvadex that day?

 

[Whisky]

I have noticed my left nipple is itchy this week, so that basically means I need to up my AI take? I see your graph and I kinda get what you're saying in regards to the esters working together, one releasing fast, some releasing slower.. but what I'm not seeing is why you're saying it's not a good drug to cycle on, just because it stays in my body longer than say Test E would? By which btw, I have two bottles of Test Sus that I'm going to finish since I have it.. but let's say I grab a third bottle now, what would you recommend I grab, and I would take 500mg of that to finish my cycle?

yeah my whole point around sust not being great is purely that the long ester part will stay around for a long time after you finish, that prevents your hpta restarting until it’s cleared which means you’ll have a long period with low test levels in which to lose your cycle gains.

the aim really is to get the test outta the system quick at the end so your natural hormones can recover ASAP and you keep more/feel less ****.

that’s why I suggested switching to test prop for the last 4-6 weeks. Test e lasts longer than prop but would still be way better than sust.

 

[blasteryui]

yeah my whole point around sust not being great is purely that the long ester part will stay around for a long time after you finish, that prevents your hpta restarting until it’s cleared which means you’ll have a long period with low test levels in which to lose your cycle gains.

the aim really is to get the test outta the system quick at the end so your natural hormones can recover ASAP and you keep more/feel less ****.

that’s why I suggested switching to test prop for the last 4-6 weeks. Test e lasts longer than prop but would still be way better than sust.

Ok so maybe I'll order some Test E as well, so for a future cycle, you'd say just run Test E the whole way through, or recommend something else? I don't really want Prop since you have to inject more frequently EOD, I believe you had said..

 

[Whisky]

Ok so maybe I'll order some Test E as well, so for a future cycle, you'd say just run Test E the whole way through, or recommend something else? I don't really want Prop since you have to inject more frequently EOD, I believe you had said..

e or cyp is what most people use bro....