Codybenz
Well-known member
I’m good, but you do you.
The dangerous anabolic addiction
- Thread starter p1nchharmonic
- Start date
I’m good, but you do you.
StarScream66
Well-known member
I'm kind of burnt out on it. I don't really feel like digging through all the studies and finding quotes that are interesting, or relevant to what we're talking about. It's just a really long long process of reading the entire studies, especially when they sometimes end up being as thick as a book.
Whisky
Well-known member
tbh I generally hold the view that anything we use can, in high enough and long enough doses, be detrimental to health.
the specifics can obviously help to make slightly better choices on supports etc but generally sensible cycles and basic supports equal limited issues and more ‘abuse’ type use will cause more issues.
it’s probably not a massive difference one aas to the next (especially when we factor in individual response meaning the degree of detriment can vary).
all the mainstream aas have been around long enough and studied in humans enough to know there’s no ‘drop dead’ type risk factor and that’s kinda good enough for me. It’s why I like the tried and tested stuff over the newer sarms.
on a side note I listened to a podcast that suggested nandrolone would be a sensible option for women as apparently they produce an increased amount when pregnant (as some sort of natural mechanism) so there bodies are used to processing it......
CroLifter
Well-known member
They actually can cause instant dead however it is most of the time a long time process called cardiac remodelling by which aas lead to life threatening arrhytmias and potentially sudden death.
However its true that it is a rare occurence for someone to drop dead from acute aas use.
Other drugswe use can also be very dangerous. For example clomid makes me have skippee beats especially during workout, hence i am cutting that son of a b1tch short this time around.
Hyde
Legend
You know other SERMs like tamoxifen and toremifene exist right? I have never met someone who hates Clomid as much as you do still use it...it’s not even as effective as tamoxifen for PCT. Speaking both from personal experience as well as what the studies have clearly shown.
Also, what AAS are causing instant death in an individual using for the first time with no previous cardiac or health contraindications?
CroLifter
Well-known member
I wouod expect other serms to cause me the same. All serms arw after all pro thrombotic and since they are estrogen like they cause QT interval prolongation.
I had exact same issue with azythromycin which also prolongs QT interval, it was prescribed to me but i effin forgot that until the day before i have been eating grapefruit which causes the drug levels to be much higher due to slower metabolism.
I had a skipped beat every 15 minutes, it was annoying as hell, andd if i got my heart rate up they wpuld happen in a row.
It stopped about 5 days after i stopped the drug.
I generally tend to have skipped beats here and there, told it was normal, surprisingly on cycle i didnt have any like at all (and since i used tren i thought they wouod be happening all over the place), but now with pct they are coming back.
And yes correct aas probably wont cause SCD but with what they do to the heart over time can lead to it.
Renew1
Legend
No.
They MIGHT for you...
But SERMS are like steroids (for example), they each come with their own individual effects, and side effects.
CroLifter
Well-known member
All i am saying that both clomid and nolva carry cardiovascular risks and those risks are pretty much the same (thrombosis and qt interval prolongation).
One could even argue that nolva is more toxic than clomid as far as cv risk goes.
So from that standpoint it doesnt make sense to switch
From a psychological standpoint i get it, clomid is rough. But then again, i just need to control my temper and realize its the drug and not me, also i aint taking it for long anyway.
And i take a baby aspirin while on it.
Hyde
Legend
That’s a dumb argument for not switching. “Well, I think it will be just as bad on my heart condition.” Okay, so what about all of the mental & ocular sides you complain about? How would those going away with the same cardiovascular side profile not be an improvement for you? Tamoxifen isn’t even more expensive or harder to acquire, so unless you just have Clomid already I don’t know why you keep buying it.
You haven’t even tried it and you are making assumptions a different drug will treat you the same. That’s like a child not trying a certain new food because they didn’t like a totally different food.
CroLifter
Well-known member
Yeah thats the thing, got a stash of clomid already. Same reason why i used tren even though everyone suggested against it, already had it lol
Hyde
Legend
Trade it off homie!
thebigt
Legend
so much good sense in one post---mind blown!!!!
CroLifter
Well-known member
Well i am that kid who is hiding in the basement brewing gear not knowing how the hell he managed to get his hands on some because he has absolutely no connections or hookups whatsoever and hence is stuck with what he has.
Not complaining though, stuck with a pretty nice combo of peds.
StarScream66
Well-known member
I'm a Nolvadex man. I've always used Nolva and always will.
How is Proviron on the hairline?
How is Proviron on the hairline?
Codybenz
Well-known member
not sure really. My hairline was creeping back way before I started AAS. Pretty much keep it As close to bald as you can be without being bald
Rockslide
Member
I just want to pile on and reinforce that proviron is 1 methylated not 17-aa. Completely different thing. Not to say there is zero possibly of liver toxicity but it’s not the beast on the liver that 17-aas are. Trest is 7a-methyl I believe... also liver toxic possibly to a degree but again not the same as a 17aa
Hyde
Legend
Anecdotally, Proviron doesn’t really touch my liver. It most certainly can be used for temporary TRT, although it has shortcomings compared to testosterone obviously that make it a poor choice for longterm health. Like it’s negative lipid impact, lack of estrogen, much less anabolic. But a decent adjunct to a TRT or between cycles for a guy with low test.
I have heard of guys who would just take DHEA and Proviron and herbal stuff between blasts. Not sure that sounds healthier than just cruising on 100mg testosterone, but people have their reasons I suppose.
I have heard of guys who would just take DHEA and Proviron and herbal stuff between blasts. Not sure that sounds healthier than just cruising on 100mg testosterone, but people have their reasons I suppose.
Rockslide
Member
Tbh it seems like more info each day points to the beneficial effects of hormones being related to estrogen (from a health standpoint) and dht from a feel good standpoint . Providing estro is at the right level and dht is at the right level. The test provides the muscle growth part through its downstream effects when it bind to the AR but it wouldn’t shock me if people could get by fine on dhea (for the estro) and provirion (for the dht) purely from a hrt standpoint
just imo with the more I read. Though process on estro is definitely changing in this community compared to 20 years ago.
just imo with the more I read. Though process on estro is definitely changing in this community compared to 20 years ago.
CroLifter
Well-known member
But why reinvent the wheel and make it more complicated to operate in the process?
There is a reason why esterified test is so good. Just pin 1 or 2x a week and that's it
No need to think about taking your pills ED
thebigt
Legend
pinning has become a way of life for many members here...to the point where some forget that there are those who don't enjoy frequent jabbings
-i don't look forward to my once weekly test injection but know it's required for my quality of life.Rockslide
Member
nor was I advocating this. Just saying the that the estro is probably more important than the test from a health standpoint and the dht is what is responsible for the feel good part. Injectable test at the correct dose which is person dependent should provide both estro and dht in an appropriate ratio
StarScream66
Well-known member
I wanted to post a couple videos I've recently watched by Anabolic Doc about DHT and Proviron (I don't remember if I posted this already or not. But I thought they were very relevant anda good watch. This has to do with Masteron and how he talks about coming off heavy DHT drugs can cause depression and other negative neurological effects.
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Here's his analysis on Proviron
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StarScream66
Well-known member
According to his site, he offers TRT and consultations to users of AAS and peptides and stuff and makes sure their body is working the way it should and he offers no negative judgement of people who use these compounds.
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CroLifter
Well-known member
He positioned himself in an unsaturated market, amongst clueless pcp's and overly "trigger-happy" trt clinics as a moderate and conservative doctor who actively tries to understand the aas scene but at the same time wants to make sure amongst his patients that people who dont need test dont use it and those who do that they use minimal amount.
And he is marketing himself aggressively.
StarScream66
Well-known member
Well, that's kind of what most TRT clinics do. But, I still trust his videos because looks over the science and then anecdotal reports.
BBiceps
Well-known member
I feel the same, he have an agenda and I don’t trust him.
StarScream66
Well-known member
I don't get what his agenda is. He tells the science on it, tells the anecdotal experiences, and then the potential dangers - which are almost always the same - cardiovascular.
BBiceps
Well-known member
Well, we already knew that steroids will effect the cardiovascular system negative, didn’t we? I doubt he tried anything, besides maybe test, so his view is nothing we didn’t already know. His agenda is to sell himself and I would take him more serious if he actually did all the stuff he’s “reviewing“ and showed bloodwork from all his cycles, until then I will always skip his videos.
StarScream66
Well-known member
I don't think it's meant to be as in depth as all that. No MD is going to take SARMs and stuff, but he reviewed them and I thought he did a very good job. He's not an alarmist telling you steroids are deadly and are going to kill you, but to be safe with them and do the research first. His videos are just a brief introduction to the compounds in question.
Keep in mind, he's also a full time MD, so he probably doesn't have time to make super long videos details all the stats and etc about the compound.
He is obviously trying to get people into his TRT clinic but he never comes out and says "Hey, you have to go to me, I'm the only one who can treat you", he just includes a couple links in the description of his video with links to his site.
Supposedly he is working on an app that will let you put in all your data from your blood results, the compounds you're taking, and it will recommend ancillary compounds that can help prevent negative side effects. He said it's coming out in November, but we'll see. He's a hard guy to get ahold of, I'll say that. He doesn't include any contact links I can find on his website except to apply for program, and he doesn't seem to respond to comments to his videos.
Other than that I think they're great.
BBiceps
Well-known member
It’s fine, you can like him as much as you want, I just told you why I don’t like him, it’s not a debate.
CroLifter
Well-known member
Well he does seem knowledgeable on the topic, especially around the cardiovascular effects.
He also says how there is no safe way to use supraphysiologic doses of aas. Many will disagree, but in our community anything but dropping like a fly in the next 12- 24 months is considered "safe"
As far as him taking a lot of a stuff, why the hell wpuld a 40 or 50 yr old educated MD take research chemicals of unknown purity?
I have to agree that sometimes he comes across as a narcissist and is doing his best to sell himself.
i am not defending him or anything, just saying how i view the whole situation.
Dr. George Touliatos from Europe is also very knowledgeable and since he competed, has 1st hand experience with all kinds of peds.
StarScream66
Well-known member
Any other YT channels you can recommend with good info, feel free to post them.
Hyde
Legend
I have watched all of the anabolic doc vids. Since we’re all just discussing our OPINIONS here, mine is that he is sending the right message from a medical perspective (all this stuff can harm you longterm to unknown degrees), but he isn’t really saying anything we don’t know.
“Doc, tell me about what happens to my health if I take RAD140.”
“Well, we don’t know anything about guys using these elevated doses except anecdote. And they are reporting these side effects in the YouTube comments section of my previous videos. And we know side effects are bad for your health, so there are some health compromises to taking this stuff.”
“Thanks for your medical assessment, Doc.”
“Doc, tell me about what happens to my health if I take RAD140.”
“Well, we don’t know anything about guys using these elevated doses except anecdote. And they are reporting these side effects in the YouTube comments section of my previous videos. And we know side effects are bad for your health, so there are some health compromises to taking this stuff.”
“Thanks for your medical assessment, Doc.”
thebigt
Legend
stop that-there you go making sense again, dammit!!!
Nac
Well-known member
I cant stand him. When interviewed he talks like he has ADHD. I havent seen him present anything more profound than what youd probably find at wikipedia. IMO there are layman channels with better steronz info.
brofessorx
Well-known member
dihydro boldenone (DHB)is 1-testosterone. (1-ene dihydro testosterone, 5a reduced test with a 1-ene group)
dehydro testosterone is boldenone. (1-ene testosterone)
Somewhere along the way you got confused with the two. It’s best to just use their common names. Otherwise you might start confusing dihydro test (dht) with dehydro test (bold) as both of these are “DHT” for short.
But to answer your question about Dht, (5a reduced test) It isn’t sold as an injectable because it is quickly metabolized into an inactive metabolite via 3hsd enzymes.
so despite being very androgenic, it doesn’t have time to produce any significant anabolic activity in the muscle.
This is why various modifications to dht have been made. Specifically the 2a methyl in masteron which prevents 3-hsd metabolism.
But as we know, making changes in the structure, dramatically changes how the compound acts.
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ramses31
Member
Who makes transdermal Proviron.
Renew1
Legend
There was a source or two, but nobody right now that I know of.
Mathb33
Well-known member
Why? But why
Zvch
Member
Honestly I like the way I feel just crusing more than being on. I like the normal spectrum of human emotions better. The problem is that the first month or two being on cycle, you’re way up high and you feel great but then it gradually levels out to a new normal. Once the initial high of the cycle wears off and you’re a month or two into the normal you’ve now adjusted to, you don’t even remember what the old normal felt like and you just kind of get used to it being that way. Could be the length of my cycles or it could be the Tren, but that’s the way I always feel once I come off. I forget that I have more emotional stability and way more of a consistent sense of peace and wellbeing.
I just got back on after 8 months of taking nothing but 250/week of Test. I could lie and say it was primarily for health and to give my body a break, but in reality just liked the way I felt coming off and picked up some new additional hobbies so I decided to stay that way for a while. I feel like that’s important as the addicts most of us are to stay off as long as we can possibly tolerate once we end a cycle. I just got the itch one day and had a bunch of stuff laying around and decided it was about time. And honestly, I didn’t really lose much size at all. Dropped 15 pounds or so, leaned up a bunch and primarily did bodyweight HIIT training or worked with whatever I could find laying around at a school track, but designated days like you would a bodybuilding split. I’ve never felt better or been in better shape in my life. Definitely lost a little strength but also gained strength in ways I was lacking before. And the endurance is ridiculous. I could run 5 miles straight doing a set of pushups to failure every 2 minutes and not even be phased. It was the best decision I made since I first started pinning 2 years ago.
But to answer your question, I think that initial allure will fade a bit over time. PEDs are always gonna be fun but I remember that feeling too and I think some of it is just kind of the same thing that happens when you enter any new relationship. Being on Testosterone has dramatically improved my quality of life (once I got the AI and dosage dialed in right) because I definitely needed it to begin with. Other anabolics on the other hand, they’re more like a friends with benefits situation. For me at least. They just do something so damn right when you want them to, but at the end of the day, you just don’t want them around the majority of the time.
Not to get too off topic because I think this is related, but I think as humans there is something spiritual in nature we’re intended to have a degree of connection to and I think if we’re altering our consciousness all of the time or using instantly gratifying habits to fill some type of void in our lives, we’re blocking off the necessary degree of connection to that. I don’t think it’s supposed to be that way. Not most of the time anyway.
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DecaWinBol
New member
This is my first post so I do apologize for the rude introduction, but my “goals” were to feel like a million bucks at least, if not more, but also being conservative, so to speak… so, my “drugs” of choice was Dbol and Winny… talk about feeling like a million bucks without breaking the bank. I really only had one problem; it wasn’t going to be too long before I started to chase for more. Luckily, I never really pushed the envelope, but, I definitely started to experiment, so to speak. Mainly Deca and HGH. (there’s probably a **** ton I missing, but, they’re not PEDs, just marketing and Creatine)
I was told that if you’re going to be messing with PEDs… it’s something that can’t be expunged… you know, like paying the piper. There’s no such thing as a free lunch… It’s give and take, son. Anyways, if you’re not careful it takes more than an endocrinologist or specialist to fix you, and you better be at least financially stable. But so far, so good, as they say. Oh, and blessed be by thy God and Father, because I’ve been off for a little over 9 years… and, I just have to come to facts that I don’t need to feel like a million bucks quite like that. Instead I just try make experiences to fill in the void… and, it’s sometimes hard not wanting to feel like a millions bucks.
Nonetheless, this is like a little circle for me… and, I just wanted to share.
I was told that if you’re going to be messing with PEDs… it’s something that can’t be expunged… you know, like paying the piper. There’s no such thing as a free lunch… It’s give and take, son. Anyways, if you’re not careful it takes more than an endocrinologist or specialist to fix you, and you better be at least financially stable. But so far, so good, as they say. Oh, and blessed be by thy God and Father, because I’ve been off for a little over 9 years… and, I just have to come to facts that I don’t need to feel like a million bucks quite like that. Instead I just try make experiences to fill in the void… and, it’s sometimes hard not wanting to feel like a millions bucks.
Nonetheless, this is like a little circle for me… and, I just wanted to share.
BBiceps
Well-known member
Weird first post in a 3yr old thread, why??
DecaWinBol
New member
Well, curiosity kills the cat I suppose, plus, it’s no weirder than what you might be doing, yes? Now, please don’t take this the wrong way… I know I wrote first and it seemed as if I were open for discussion… sadly, that’s not here, nor there.
I was just reading about… ultimately, felt the need to talk after reading some stories, and here we are.
Anyways, BBicep, if it’s not too much of a scene, let us remove ourselves and continue on with life.
~Godspeed!
I was just reading about… ultimately, felt the need to talk after reading some stories, and here we are.
Anyways, BBicep, if it’s not too much of a scene, let us remove ourselves and continue on with life.
~Godspeed!
johnny412
Well-known member
who tf talks like that? seriously. sounds like a robot lol