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Donald Trump running for president

dixonk said:
I wonder if Cuomo listened to science when he sent everyone to nursing homes and killed all those people. And when NY is the root of most of all US infections.

He keeps claiming to be on the side of science.
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cuomo is writing a book on leadership-truth!!!
 
jswain34 said:
Again. Politicians aren’t scientists. They have a political agenda. Unbiased scientists do not. Unbiased scientists are who we should listen to regarding novel infectious diseases.
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So I will try my best to articulate where I am coming from. I apologize in advanced as I am more accustomed to getting my point across with knife hand and colorful adaptations of the F word.

I, along with the majority of the population, are layman. I do not understand scientific equations, words, formulas, or any other fancy way of forming opinions. Therefore that info is useless and foreign to me. I can only guy by the people that are interpreting and presenting this data to us. This has been a combination of politicians, surgeon general, fauci, and birx. Every one of those lied and lied and lied. When you are already in an intrustworthy position to begin with, it doesn’t do them much good digging in deeper. Fauci stood behind protesting by the way.

So here is my thought on it. I am not in fear of this virus. So long as their are thousands of protestors in the street destroying my country and doctors and politicians on TV endorsing or not condemning it. Politicians not concerned about it, then neither will I.
 
jswain34 said:
Again. Politicians aren’t scientists. They have a political agenda. Unbiased scientists do not. Unbiased scientists are who we should listen to regarding novel infectious diseases.
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are you saying scientists don't ever have vested interests?
 
thebigt said:
for someone who claims to have a legal background you sure set yourself up to be easily taken out of context;)
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It’s strange how you’re the only one that takes what I say out of context. Although it’s quite clear you don’t read an entire exchange. Instead, you just read it piecemeal and then “see red” and go off on your irrational conclusions.

Breathe. And read the whole exchange. You’d really be surprised what context can do for your understanding.
 
Well, I am at work and was just informed by nursing that they are retesting a patient I gave nebulizer treatments to today after he was taken off droplet/isolation precautions subsequent to his negative result yesterday.

So that’s fun...
 
dixonk said:
I thought everyone on the other side trusted the CDC and now that the CDC came out against their message no longer trust the CDC. Don’t worry the media is still on your side.
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How is this against anyone's message? It's been known for months that people with pre-exisitng conditions are most vulnerable.

That includes: Heart conditions, breathing conditions, immunity dysfunctions, disorders or weakened (includes elderly).

This isn't groundbreaking at all.
 
jswain34 said:
Classic. Instead of acknowledging your hypocrisy you point the finger somewhere else. The CDC’s scientists are stripped of their balls, our science denying president “takes over”, then all of his science denying minions believe that the science is now correct.
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Its genuinely frustrating. The "underlying conditions" statement has been known for months.

A lot of people dont even know they have underlying conditions.
 
Woody said:
It’s strange how you’re the only one that takes what I say out of context. Although it’s quite clear you don’t read an entire exchange. Instead, you just read it piecemeal and then “see red” and go off on your irrational conclusions.

Breathe. And read the whole exchange. You’d really be surprised what context can do for your understanding.
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wow-do you want to take your toy and go home now-'woody'...tell me another 'story' 1st though!!!
 
dixonk said:
Paying taxes is not a prerequisite for being president. Having a functioning brain is though.
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Right but if we are being honest and trying to avoid hyperbole, I'd feel comfortable arguing Trumps tax returns are far more damaging than any cognitive assessment tests youd have Biden take.

Although to be fair, idk if the implication was Biden doesn't have a functioning brain or just any aspiring candidate needs to have one in general.

Id also like to defend the scientists for a moment. Full disclosure I work in the synbio world and my customers are literally antibody engineers, CRISPr, etc working 70-80hr weeks to find new candidates to license out. I know I'm biased but its hard to imagine a world in which they are more devious loaded with ulterior motives than politicians. People talk about funding being a conflict, a vast majority comes from NSF/NIH or just internal (biopharma, etc). Vanderbilt is on the DARPA bill for P3 etc. So the science is hard to fudge, its not like you just skew results. You're sending leads downstream to mice models and drug discovery teams who will report in 2 seconds if it induced the desired result, to what extent, etc.

So does the academic world have a serious dark side that incentivizss publishing at all cost? Yes....

But the bulk of science going into this vaccine is from private industry so thats moot here imo.


Edits:spelling - mobile sucks for long posts lol
 
I believe the CDC report was more intended to be of value because if gave a statistical number (94%) to what we already knew. Is that valuable? I suppose that’s personal opinion..
 
DaveGabe24 said:
Why are people so up in arms about the CDC data that the majority of deaths had underlying condition? How is this news to anyone?

Admittedly I'm more on the "this is a serious pandemic and we should just love our neighbors side" than most conservatives, but did they really not know lethality increased with preexisting conditions? How can they be so anti-science to not know that?

Open to thoughts, you guys definitely have some different perspectives and views so I figure it's a good place to get uncomfortable, test my views, and maybe learn something.
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I agree with you that this is not news but I think some people who are trying to downplay this are trying to say, "See, it is only deadly if you have a pre-existing condition" and this is transposed into the pre-existing condition killed the person and not the virus.

In other words, if you have cancer and get covid and die, how do we know what killed you? It must have been the cancer and no the covid. Of course this is naive, but the people thinking this think it is introspective.

dixonk said:
I thought everyone on the other side trusted the CDC and now that the CDC came out against their message no longer trust the CDC. Don’t worry the media is still on your side.
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This IS politically charged but saying it wasn't dangerous is foolish at this point. And disrespectful. 180,000+ people would disagree with you. In 6 months we have lost half as many Americans as we did in YEARS of battle during A WW2. How you can act like this wasn't a huge loss is pretty questionable.


ax1 said:
The "tin foil hats" have been pointing out the stats all along since the beginning, but they are tin foil hats.

Im more on this is a "bad health crisis and we should see what we can do for our neighbors side."

The problem that I have is they created an economic disaster and minimized the effects by printing and about to print trillions and trillions out of thin air, devaluing everything we have in the bank in the long run.

All these shutdowns started with, "we need to shut down for a couple weeks to regroup and help our hospital capacities" to this mega social experiment and elements of dictatorship claiming what is essential and not essential. Every job is essential, as it is essential to pay your bills and put food on your families table, duh.

I would have been cool the first couple weeks but the later was ridiculous. Im not talking mask mandates but surely there is a way to help minimize the risk of high risk people while the rest of society mostly go about their norms. You just dont solve a crisis by creating another crisis which also results in deaths because thats what happens when you destroy the economy.
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I agree a little with both sides on these issues. Politics poisoned this. But losing 180,000 lives is a huge impact on our economy and losing 400,000 would have been disastrous. Inflation out of control disastrous. People only see one side of this equation, which I can understand because both sides of the equation are complex and I don't understand either side fully.

DaveGabe24 said:
Hey man, I'm 100% on board with this. My sister is an elementary school teacher and as I learned more about ALL of the other benefits school provides for kids like nutrition, mental health, social development, etc I felt like the actual in person education was the LEAST of it. So trust me, even as someone more "liberal" than most in this thread - I agree the economy being close may end up jut as deadly as the virus itself.

I also think the desire to turn the virus political at all, calling it a "hoax" in the beginning started that rift, and it never closed. Not wearing a mask became a way to flex your rights instead of care for your neighbor. Refusing to quarantine became a way to show strength instead of embracing solidarity and love for your neighbor.

The virus was horrible but the aftermath was far worse. It exposed a lot of selfish behaviors, divided perspectives and priorities, and most harmful was the level of misinformation people were (unknowingly) exposed to.
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Honestly, I think the democrats manufactured the political side of this. Trump reacted right away, shutting down flights on January 28th. Pelosi called him a racist for doing so. She failed to even mention the virus until almost March. Then she claims he didn't react fast enough. Trump's failure was in changing his tone and downplaying it. He should have said, "This is dangerous and you guys resisted me and did nothing." But he also didn't want to destroy the economy out of fear and wanted to get people back to work - which is also his job. It is a tough line to walk and the politics around this is crazy.

thebigt said:
i checked to be sure before i posted about his aneurysms, funny how many people are unaware of 2 brain surgery's of a guy running for president?

i bet everyone would be aware if trump had 2 brain surgery's-eh?
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They are diagnosing Trump with all kinds of mentap issues without evidence, can't imagine what they would do with that haha.

DaveGabe24 said:
It's like assuming we'd have every president's tax returns. Ya don't know till ya know! lol
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Who assumed that? Tax returns are not a requirement of a president. It became a tradition in the 1900's. Having a birth certificate on the other hand, IS a requirement to be president and it is ironic the dems have such a huge double standard.

Woody said:
I mean, technically, paying taxes is kind of a prerequisite. Tax evasion and all.
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But providing tax returns is not a requirement. If he wasn't paying them, the IRS would know. They come down on me if I miss $1000 - it would be hard to hide billions. The entire tax return thing is just designed to paint Trump as having done something underhanded because most Americans don't know how finance works. Like when they went after Romney for off shore accounts - which doesn't prevent anyone from paying taxes, it is a legal strategy to protect assets.

Ricky10 said:
Anyone else having trouble with the sheer irony coming out of Biden- pinning the riots/violence/looting on Trump?

I think Ivanka should wear a body cam and be granted a pardon to kick him in the balls until he admits what is really happening and who is responsible.
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The entire democratic party is an irony. They claim Trump is racist and Biden is going to fix things. Umm, where did he stand in desegregation? How about his constant racist remarks?

Or you should always believe the accuser when they have no evidence, but when there is an accuser with recordings from TV and people recollecting the victim telling their story, brush it under the rug.

Trump shouldn't be president because he said he could grab a woman by her crotch. Biden does grab a woman by the crotch and that is fine.

Irony is their thing. They have mastered it.
 
In more exciting news I won an auction for a new to me competition rifle. By the end of this week I will have my long sought after JP rifles CTR02 in 223 Wylde with a 20” stainless barrel and all the goodies Hopefully will crush the AR regionals competition later this month.
 
DaveGabe24 said:
Hey man, I'm 100% on board with this. My sister is an elementary school teacher and as I learned more about ALL of the other benefits school provides for kids like nutrition, mental health, social development, etc I felt like the actual in person education was the LEAST of it. So trust me, even as someone more "liberal" than most in this thread - I agree the economy being close may end up jut as deadly as the virus itself.

I also think the desire to turn the virus political at all, calling it a "hoax" in the beginning started that rift, and it never closed. Not wearing a mask became a way to flex your rights instead of care for your neighbor. Refusing to quarantine became a way to show strength instead of embracing solidarity and love for your neighbor.

The virus was horrible but the aftermath was far worse. It exposed a lot of selfish behaviors, divided perspectives and priorities, and most harmful was the level of misinformation people were (unknowingly) exposed to.
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That last paragraph is so powerful.
 
dixonk said:
He is a billionaire. If he evaded taxes, committed fraud, or anything illegal the IRS would have brought it out already. I am sure every billionaire in the States has their own personal agent assigned to them.
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Not necessarily. Ever heard of the Panama papers? Powerful people find ways to avoid paying taxes through she'll companies and tax free havens.

IRS cant audit accounts in other countries.
 
Jiigzz said:
It clearly isnt ;)
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everyone thought hillary was a sure thing, trump pulled off what i consider one of the biggest upsets of my lifetime---not as big as broadway joe namath and the jets beating unitas and the colts but right up there at least top 10, imo.
 
Jiigzz said:
Not necessarily. Ever heard of the Panama papers? Powerful people find ways to avoid paying taxes through she'll companies and tax free havens.

IRS cant audit accounts in other countries.
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Then obviously his tax returns won’t show anything.
 
Thus was published in April Invalid Link Removed

And as evidence evolved, revisions have been made:

Invalid Link Removed
 
the wife didn't want to cook tonight so going to monicals to pick up a pizza-my favortite-mmmm!!!
 
dixonk said:
Paying taxes is not a prerequisite for being president. Having a functioning brain is though.
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Paying taxes is a prerequisite to whether or not you spend time behind bars, it should never be different rules for different folks when it comes to following the IRS rules. On the other hand, does the Constitution allow a sitting president to lead behind bars? Well, then you have a case.
 
Jiigzz said:
Not necessarily. Ever heard of the Panama papers? Powerful people find ways to avoid paying taxes through she'll companies and tax free havens.

IRS cant audit accounts in other countries.
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Your supposed to claim overseas accounts on your tax returns, it asked you on the forms so if you lie about that, people should be subject to audit but I am not an accountant or tax lawyer so I dunno.
 
thebigt said:
everyone thought hillary was a sure thing, trump pulled off what i consider one of the biggest upsets of my lifetime---not as big as broadway joe namath and the jets beating unitas and the colts but right up there at least top 10, imo.
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But the Russians spend a few hundred Rubys on facebook ads, wtf thats cheating!!!!!!
 
dixonk said:
Yes. It was the Russians online ads that convinced me to vote for Trump

Democrats are retarded.
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Hitlery spent over a billion dollars on that election the most ever. They didnt vote for her because of Russia, they didnt vote for her because they cant stand her.
 
ax1 said:
Hitlery spent over a billion dollars on that election the most ever. They didnt vote for her because of Russia, they didnt vote for her because they cant stand her.
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If a steaming pile of dog **** would have ran against Hillary I would have voted for the turd. That bitch is pure evil.
 
ax1 said:
Hitlery spent over a billion dollars on that election the most ever. They didnt vote for her because of Russia, they didnt vote for her because they cant stand her.
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If a steaming pile of dog **** would have ran against Hillary I would have voted for the turd. That bitch is pure evil.
 
Dixon im all for a good meme but most of those aren't contaigeous and spread based on a lack of compassion for fellow Americans. Just.my .02c sorry to be so srs

Anyways, I wanted to just thank you guys tonight for the conversation. Sam Harris always says that the act of discourse itself can be the progress we seek. So while I disagree with a lot of the vitriol and redirect, I appreciate you guys, your passion for this experiment we call the US, and for all agreeing that we can do so much better (I dont mean Trump/Biden).
 
DaveGabe24 said:
Dixon im all for a good meme but most of those aren't contaigeous and spread based on a lack of compassion for fellow Americans. Just.my .02c sorry to be so srs

Anyways, I wanted to just thank you guys tonight for the conversation. Sam Harris always says that the act of discourse itself can be the progress we seek. So while I disagree with a lot of the vitriol and redirect, I appreciate you guys, your passion this experiment we call the US, and for all agreeing that we can do so much better (I dont mean Trump/Biden).
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Somebody dies very 50 minutes from a DWI accidents, but they made sure liquor stores were labeled an essential business out of compassion because I guess it takes Corona to kill Corona.

What about pregnant women who smoke and or drink? Shouldnt they be put into solitary confinement until birth? You are effecting another human being.

Or what about marketing in the food industry...yeah I know its not traditionally contagious but it does brainwash society to eat poorly and nothing is more dangerous and costly than chronic disease.

I dunno, just a perspective, again Im for being pro-active into combating the CCP-Virus but Ive seen alot of hypocrisy in the system and with people.
 
ax1 said:
Somebody dies very 50 minutes from a DWI accidents, but they made sure liquor stores were labeled an essential business out of compassion because I guess it takes Corona to kill Corona.

What about pregnant women who smoke and or drink? Shouldnt they be put into solitary confinement until birth? You are effecting another human being.

Or what about marketing in the food industry...yeah I know its not traditionally contagious but it does brainwash society to eat poorly and nothing is more dangerous and costly than chronic disease.

I dunno, just a perspective, again Im for being pro-active into combating the CCP-Virus but Ive seen alot of hypocrisy in the system and with people.
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I really dont get these comparison arguments. Why is it so hard to understand people can care about more than 1 thing at a time?

Its hard because a fetus isnt a legally defined person and doesnt have rights. You might disagree with that, but that's another entirely separate issue. People CAN care about DWIs, fetal alcohol syndrome, and everything else, that doesn't take away from the fact that coronavirus itself is also an issue.

DWI is already illegal.

Why do I care about assaults when murder is a bigger issue? Why do I care about miscarriages, when suicide rates are so high? Why do I care about Parkinson's, when cancer deaths are astronomical?

Because I can care about all these things
 
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Jiigzz said:
I really dont get these comparison arguments. Why is it so hard to understand people can care about more than 1 thing at a time?

Its hard because a fetus isnt a legally defined person and doesnt have rights. You might disagree with that, but that's another entirely separate issue. People CAN care about DWIs, fetal alcohol syndrome, and everything else, that doesn't take away from the fact that coronavirus itself is also an issue.

DWI is already illegal.
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Because somebody taking a mask off to slurp down a 32oz coke to wash down a double whopper with large fries followed by popping a cigarette on their way to the car is absolutely comical to me. Then they sit in a car and one side drops 10 inches. Why is this relevant? Because these are the people that destructed themselves to be fragile to the CCP-virus. Doesnt mean they dont count but personal responsibility to the self is something that people should take up on.

I dont care what is "legally defined" as a person, government need not tell me what a person is and who can claim to have rights. Ill decide that and Ill decide if its an issue or not (Im not trying to sound so heavy here :).) A 7 month pregnant women smoking, drinking or doing drugs is a criminal.

I did end my statement confirming that the CCP virus is still an issue, did I not?
 
dixonk said:
In more exciting news I won an auction for a new to me competition rifle. By the end of this week I will have my long sought after JP rifles CTR02 in 223 Wylde with a 20” stainless barrel and all the goodies Hopefully will crush the AR regionals competition later this month.
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John Paul has been making some damn good guns for a long time. Congrats on your new stick. What kind of glass are you going to put on it?
 
ax1 said:
Because somebody taking a mask off to slurp down a 32oz coke to wash down a double whopper with large fries followed by popping a cigarette on their way to the car is absolutely comical to me. Then they sit in a car and one side drops 10 inches. Why is this relevant? Because these are the people that destructed themselves to be fragile to the CCP-virus. Doesnt mean they dont count but personal responsibility to the self is something that people should take up on.

I dont care what is "legally defined" as a person, government need not tell me what a person is and who can claim to have rights. Ill decide that and Ill decide if its an issue or not (Im not trying to sound so heavy here :).) A 7 month pregnant women smoking, drinking or doing drugs is a criminal.

I did end my statement confirming that the CCP virus is still an issue, did I not?
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One is person to person transmittable, the other is not. That's also not the only reason people can have underlying conditions. You're neglecting those that are simply born with respiratory complications, or those born with compromised immunity. If you focus only on those who engorge themselves to susceptibility, you're missing the point

Ok, and like i said, separate issue. You can care about that AND people who are vulnerable to potentially deadly disease. That's a false dichotomy. You can care about multiple issues.
 
ax1 said:
Why is alcohol legal? Why is it legal to drive 1 ton moving projectiles?

Dont we want to instantly save 10s thousands of innocent lives?
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If I was to choose between saving 183000 lives or 10000 lives, I'd opt for saving 183000.

Driving is also only legal if you can suitably demonstrate you can do it. It is a privilege that can be revoked.

Alcohol is legal because prohibition didnt work very well lol
 
I also dont really understand the weird comparisons.

One day, either a meteor, nuclear disaster, virus or some bacterial disease will wipe out humans. Not car accidents, or obesity or diabetes. I'm taking covid as a dry run for how the world reacts to the very real threat of extinction, and so far we have failed.

Our rights wont matter when we are dead
 
dixonk said:
Well my wife is in the kitchen making Chicken Adobo right now.
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adobo, lumpia, lechon and milkfish over coals...brings back some good memories--and the old women selling balot and benatog.
 
Jiigzz said:
I also dont really understand the weird comparisons.

One day, either a meteor, nuclear disaster, virus or some bacterial disease will wipe out humans. Not car accidents, or obesity or diabetes. I'm taking covid as a dry run for how the world reacts to the very real threat of extinction, and so far we have failed.

Our rights wont matter when we are dead
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People are reacting the way they are because the CCP-virus although a bad health problem its not like its the freaking black plague. Its really not that bad, especially for almost all younger healthy people.

Relax man, we will be ok lol

If there is anything to panic about its pollution, that is far deadlier and kills more people than the CCP-Virus but that doesnt mean the world is going to stop and everybody needs to live a world of 1984.
 
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