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Donald Trump running for president

This weapon is more dangerous in the hands of police than an entire tank brigade on their way to a crowded protest. Precincts are under contract that if they get caught with it they have to lie under oath in front of a judge of its existence.

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what the government fears most is short wave radios[CB"s] the one form of communication they can't monitor, imo.


the kids think they have it going on with high tech, but big brother knows every move they make--rather they act on it or not is another question, but they know.
 
thebigt said:
the goal of the bombings was economic disruption. the public thought hell yeah, give it to the man. this lasted awhile until they started seeing family killed as collateral damage. once the glamour was gone and people saw how disruptive the violence was to daily life they turned against them, without public support they were dead in the water, much as i see happening here.
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The goal of later bombings were but not the initial protests. They literally formed the new Provincial IRA, different than the traditional IRA because of the activity of the RUC and burning of Catholic neighborhoods in the Bogside.

They stopped the bombings and violence because they realized they couldn't win through force and in turn chose to vote in their own....ie the election of Bobby Sands who died on hunger strike in Long Kesh.
 
ax1 said:
This weapon is more dangerous in the hands of police than an entire tank brigade on their way to a crowded protest. Precincts are under contract that if they get caught with it they have to lie under oath in front of a judge of its existence.

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Just assume everything being said is being listened to or recorded by somebody, so stuff like this isn't even needed anymore. The best bet against a stingray is the phone company introducing protective measures so they can keep your personal info for themselves.
 
Aleksandar37 said:
Politicians have to run for reelection every few years. How is that the same?
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Didn't say they were the same. You asked what other profession doesn't get fired for messing up....
 
Aleksandar37 said:
Just assume everything being said is being listened to or recorded by somebody, so stuff like this isn't even needed anymore. The best bet against a stingray is the phone company introducing protective measures so they can keep your personal info for themselves.
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This is the direction Im looking at and wish these protests expanded to the NSA, liberating Snowden and sticking up for other violations of our liberties, as after all this effects or can effect every "black" (whatever that means) person's freedom and is set up as one form of oppression or another.
 
Admin said:
The goal of later bombings were but not the initial protests. They literally formed the new Provincial IRA, different than the traditional IRA because of the activity of the RUC and burning of Catholic neighborhoods in the Bogside.

They stopped the bombings and violence because they realized they couldn't win through force and in turn chose to vote in their own....ie the election of Bobby Sands who died on hunger strike in Long Kesh.
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i made the comparison between ira and looters and rioters because originally the public had sympathy for their causes, but eventually the public will lose tolerance for the violence.
 
They released some body-cam footage of Atlanta, not sure if you all saw it already.

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ax1 said:
This is the direction Im looking at and wish these protests expanded to the NSA, liberating Snowden and sticking up for other violations of our liberties, as after all this effects or can effect every "black" (whatever that means) person's freedom and is set up as one form of oppression or another.
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If you feel strongly about this issue, then you should start something and not expect others to do it for you. The reason most of these protests go nowhere is because they don't have a strong core message than they stick to. It starts out as hey, maybe cops can stop killing people that they don't need to kill, but then somebody says but what about trans people, and what about the NSA, and what about purple squirrels, etc. It gets spread thin, people get confused, and it all falls apart.
 
Aleksandar37 said:
If you feel strongly about this issue, then you should start something and not expect others to do it for you. The reason most of these protests go nowhere is because they don't have a strong core message than they stick to. It starts out as hey, maybe cops can stop killing people that they don't need to kill, but then somebody says but what about trans people, and what about the NSA, and what about purple squirrels, etc. It gets spread thin, people get confused, and it all falls apart.
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I’m supporting the Liberty Movement and have my own agenda, that’s for sure. That is what I believe to most help black communities, and everybody.
 
thebigt said:
i made the comparison between ira and looters and rioters because originally the public had sympathy for their causes, but eventually the public will lose tolerance for the violence.
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The Republic of Ireland never really had a favorable opinion of the provincial IRA...and the British general public never did..and never really cared about Catholic's rights in Northern Ireland. The only time you really had any public sympathy was the situation I mentioned above and the provincial IRA didn't even exist at that point.

I would say if you want to make comparison's now..it would be the identity politics that is still prevalent today in Northern Ireland...that is certainly on the rise in the US.
 
ax1 said:
I’m supporting the Liberty Movement and have my own agenda, that’s for sure. That is what I believe to most help black communities, and everybody.
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And you don't see anything weird about you telling black communities their current concerns aren't legitimate and this over here is what they should be concerned about?
 
Aleksandar37 said:
If you want to move this to a personal attack conversation, we can do that, but here's your chance to walk it back. I've already said that I don't support or agree with CHAZ. Me correcting you on a subject that you based on doctored photos doesn't mean I agree one way or another.
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It was a joke.
 
Aleksandar37 said:
If you feel strongly about this issue, then you should start something and not expect others to do it for you. The reason most of these protests go nowhere is because they don't have a strong core message than they stick to. It starts out as hey, maybe cops can stop killing people that they don't need to kill, but then somebody says but what about trans people, and what about the NSA, and what about purple squirrels, etc. It gets spread thin, people get confused, and it all falls apart.
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Problem is what do people do when they oppose the same thing but then strongly oppose each other’s solutions?
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Didn’t a bunch of politicians just basically get caught insider trading and nothing happened to them?
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Yep.

Aleksandar37 said:
And you don't see anything weird about you telling black communities their current concerns aren't legitimate and this over here is what they should be concerned about?
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I don't think a sane person would tell black communities their concerns aren't legitimate but they have consistently voted in their own for the last 40 years and the problem still exists.
 
Admin said:
The Republic of Ireland never really had a favorable opinion of the provincial IRA...and the British general public never did..and never really cared about Catholic's rights in Northern Ireland. The only time you really had any public sympathy was the situation I mentioned above and the provincial IRA didn't even exist at that point.

I would say if you want to make comparison's now..it would be the identity politics that is still prevalent today in Northern Ireland...that is certainly on the rise in the US.
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i thought that parts of ireland was pro ira and donated to the cause, even hid them out from police? even here where i live, people are much less tolerant to the violence than they seem to be in the big cities.

where do you stand on identity politics? i will tell you that i think it sucks!!!
 
ax1 said:
I’m supporting the Liberty Movement and have my own agenda, that’s for sure. That is what I believe to most help black communities, and everybody.
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Help the black communities? Blacks kill more blacks than the police ever have, or ever will. I dont see BLM protesting in some Chicago project.
 
Admin said:
Yep.




I don't think a sane person would tell black communities their concerns aren't legitimate but they have consistently voted in their own for the last 40 years and the problem still exists.
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those would be the black conservatives that biden says aren't black.
 
thebigt said:
i thought that parts of ireland was pro ira and donated to the cause, even hid them out from police? even here where i live, people are much less tolerant to the violence than they seem to be in the big cities.
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Mainly in Northern Ireland but even then they were a minority. You probably had more pro IRA Irish in Boston than in the Republic of Ireland....

where do you stand on identity politics? i will tell you that i think it sucks!!!
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It eventually piles up the bodies on both sides.
 
Aleksandar37 said:
And you don't see anything weird about you telling black communities their current concerns aren't legitimate and this over here is what they should be concerned about?
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You can see their problems as completely legitimate but disagree as to who,what,when and why. I agree there is suppression that these people feel just not in the way they look at it...and by “they” I don’t mean the way “black people” look at it, but rather individuals that look at it that way.
 
Admin said:
Mainly in Northern Ireland but even then they were a minority. You probably had more pro IRA Irish in Boston than in the Republic of Ireland....



It eventually piles up the bodies on both sides.
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most of the support for radicals is in the big cities, here in my small city of 64,000 there was a small protest of 50 people with no issues. eventually i see many people leaving big cities, i see the violence getting worse.


i don't see how anyone can say that identity politics isn't just a form of racism/sexism?
 
manifesto said:
Help the black communities? Blacks kill more blacks than the police ever have, or ever will. I dont see BLM protesting in some Chicago project.
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Its not about black on black crime...because every race kills their own more than they kill another race. Its the fact that 8% of the population accounts for 44% of violent crimes. It wasn't like that 50 years ago and the same trend doesn't affect just black people but poor whites as well. If you look at the trends, the same deterioration of communities as a whole is felt across the board but the extremes are going be seen in the most poverty stricken neighborhoods...which are primarily black. So then you have to ask...why? Thats why I said this is a class and culture issue...not a race one. The race issue is the shiny object....
 
Admin said:
Its not about black on black crime...because every race kills their own more than they kill another race. Its the fact that 8% of the population accounts for 44% of violent crimes. It wasn't like that 50 years ago and the same trend doesn't affect just black people but poor whites as well. If you look at the trends, the same deterioration of communities as a whole is felt across the board but the extremes are going be seen in the most poverty stricken neighborhoods...which are primarily black. So then you have to ask...why? Thats why I said this is a class and culture issue...not a race one. The race issue is the shiny object....
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this is what is different than protests of 60's 70's. back then it was middle class white kids protesting the war because their deferment was about to run out, lol.

i would be willing to bet that those same rich white kids who were anti-government radicals back then are now tenured college professors.o_O
 
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Admin said:
Its not about black on black crime...because every race kills their own more than they kill another race. Its the fact that 8% of the population accounts for 44% of violent crimes. It wasn't like that 50 years ago and the same trend doesn't affect just black people but poor whites as well. If you look at the trends, the same deterioration of communities as a whole is felt across the board but the extremes are going be seen in the most poverty stricken neighborhoods...which are primarily black. So then you have to ask...why? Thats why I said this is a class and culture issue...not a race one. The race issue is the shiny object....
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You beat me to it. I’d think that socioeconomic status predicts these things more than race. It’s not that an African American is more likely to commit a crime than a White person in a vacuum, but that they’re more likely be live in poverty, which itself often leads to increased crime. This source says that poverty is roughly twice as high (by percent of the population of each race) for blacks than for whites:

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Reduce poverty, and you reduce crime.
 
All I said was blacks kill more blacks than police ever will....and i don't see any protestors speaking of this.
 
white people don't protest when one of them get killed by the police.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
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Reduce poverty, and you reduce crime.
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Which was my initial point really to begin with...Reduce poverty = less crime = less police.

Change culture..fix the cause..and everything else gets much better.

If it was race, Asians wouldn't have the highest income per capita.
 
manifesto said:
white people don't protest when one of them get killed by the police.
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They did 150 years ago when they were the majority of the poor.
 
Admin said:
Which was my initial point really to begin with...Reduce poverty = less crime = less police.

Change culture..fix the cause..and everything else gets much better.

If it was race, Asians wouldn't have the highest income per capita.
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Ok. And yeah, less overall crime makes things better for the people and the police. Less need for police to be on edge should lead to less police shootings. But we can also, of course, have improved police oversight and ensure we do hold officers accountable and responsible when they do abuse their power, which will unfortunately always happen to some degree. I think we can reach a happy agreement here! It doesn’t have to be either or.
 
manifesto said:
All I said was blacks kill more blacks than police ever will....and i don't see any protestors speaking of this.
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That has nothing to do with anything. Blacks killing blacks doesn’t have anything to do with an agency/department of the government that’s supposed to protect the people killing them unjustly.

That’s like saying you can’t protest catholic priests molesting children because more step parents molest children than priests do. They have zero to do with each other, at all...
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Ok. And yeah, less overall crime makes things better for the people and the police. Less need for police to be on edge should lead to less police shootings. But we can also, of course, have improved police oversight and ensure we do hold officers accountable and responsible when they do abuse their power, which will unfortunately always happen to some degree. I think we can reach a happy agreement here! It doesn’t have to be either or.
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Of course not. Almost every solution is multi faceted...I just think police reform won't change the actual culture. That doesn't mean you don't do it but its also why I said you have to change the community as a whole...Fixing cops is the easy part...fixing the culture of poverty which gets rid of police is the hard part.


....as I sit here and watch Ken Burns New York for the 3rd time...eerily similar.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
That has nothing to do with anything. Blacks killing blacks doesn’t have anything to do with an agency/department of the government that’s supposed to protect the people killing them unjustly.

That’s like saying you can’t protest catholic priests molesting children because more step parents molest children than priests do. They have zero to do with each other, at all...
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I know...i just went on a tangent because I think BLM is missing the point.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
That has nothing to do with anything. Blacks killing blacks doesn’t have anything to do with an agency/department of the government that’s supposed to protect the people killing them unjustly.
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This is where I disagree a bit especially on the psychological effects of policing in those communities. I think a good cop can turn bad cop eventually by the constant dehumanization they see everyday over time.

Its like prison. Criminals tend to become worse criminals in prison.

Thats why I stressed the need for a cultural change within that community to break the cycle.
 
Admin said:
This is where I disagree a bit especially on the psychological effects of policing in those communities. I think a good cop can turn bad cop eventually by the constant dehumanization they see everyday over time.

Its like prison. Criminals tend to become worse criminals in prison.

Thats why I stressed the need for a cultural change within that community to break the cycle.
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Ok, but you can’t tell someone they don’t have a right to be upset about cops murdering people and think something should be done about it in terms of police policy. Not saying you think that of course.

And even if there is some dehumanization going on, which we should of course reduce, cops still shouldn’t EVER go around murdering people. Even if they view certain people as less than, they still shouldn’t be allowed to harm them with impunity. Hell, people view dogs as subhuman, but cops can’t go around beating random dogs. Property isn’t even a living thing, and police shouldn’t go around wantonly destroying property.

Like we both agree, we can do both, and the existence of one issue doesn’t undermine the other.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Ok, but you can’t tell someone they don’t have a right to be upset about cops murdering people and think something should be done about it in terms of police policy. Not saying you think that of course.
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Not at all but as you can see since the first riots in Watts in 68, nothing much has changed....why?

And you (in general, not "you") certainly can't tell some guy in Kansas its white privilege as you loot a city. You're argument gets lost.

And even if there is some dehumanization going on, which we should of course reduce, cops still shouldn’t EVER go around murdering people.
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I don't think most police go out on patrol looking to murder anyone. They probably are secretly begging that its a quiet patrol.

Even if they view certain people as less than, they still shouldn’t be allowed to harm them with impunity. Hell, people view dogs as subhuman, but cops can’t go around beating random dogs. Property isn’t even a living thing, and police shouldn’t go around wantonly destroying property.
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Of course they shouldn't but the fact of the matter their view of humanity as a whole will change over time...white, black, asian.....whatever...and will more reflect the environment their in rather than where they came from (if from outside that community).

The dog part is interesting since in Atlanta, dog fighting is part of the culture...ie Michael Vick.

Like we both agree, we can do both, and the existence of one issue doesn’t undermine the other.
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Very true.
 
Admin said:
Not at all but as you can see since the first riots in Watts in 68, nothing much has changed....why?

And you (in general, not "you") certainly can't tell some guy in Kansas its white privilege as you loot a city. You're argument gets lost.

I don't think most police go out on patrol looking to murder anyone. They probably are secretly begging that its a quiet patrol.



Of course they shouldn't but the fact of the matter their view of humanity as a whole will change over time...white, black, asian.....whatever...and will more reflect the environment their in rather than where they came from (if from outside that community).

The dog part is interesting since in Atlanta, dog fighting is part of the culture...ie Michael Vick.



Very true.
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I think I’ll just leave it on the last part in our agreement, as that’s the main thing. Multiple issues that can improve things, and I can’t tell someone they’re right or wrong if the want to focus more on one than another. :)
 
muscleupcrohn said:
I think I’ll just leave it on the last part in our agreement, as that’s the main thing. Multiple issues that can improve things, and I can’t tell someone they’re right or wrong if the want to focus more on one than another. :)
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Totally agree.
 
manifesto said:
Help the black communities? Blacks kill more blacks than the police ever have, or ever will. I dont see BLM protesting in some Chicago project.
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I’m not for helping people via their race and social engineering, I’m for helping Americans and they are all included.
 
Admin said:
Which was my initial point really to begin with...Reduce poverty = less crime = less police.

Change culture..fix the cause..and everything else gets much better.

If it was race, Asians wouldn't have the highest income per capita.
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government money, white liberals are not going to change the poverty culture of poor blacks...it's going to take tough love and straight talk from successful blacks who are willing to risk being labeled a tom going into the projects and telling them what it is going to take to succeed. this and liberal media needs to get it's act together and stop kissing ass. i am not black but i grew up 2 blocks from brick city in indianapolis back in the 60's and 70's and it's going to take good black role models to make a difference, and not rap artists glamorizing the thug life..
 
thebigt said:
government money, white liberals are not going to change the poverty culture of poor blacks...it's going to take tough love and straight talk from successful blacks who are willing to risk being labeled a tom going into the projects and telling them what it is going to take to succeed. this and liberal media needs to get it's act together and stop kissing ass. i am not black but i grew up 2 blocks from brick city in indianapolis back in the 60's and 70's and it's going to take good black role models to make a difference, and not rap artists glamorizing the thug life..
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ax1 said:
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So these two geniuses show news media clips to prove that these stories were never covered by the news media? What is it about BLM's message that scares or bothers most of you? They have never once said that whites don't get shot by cops. They've never once said whites can't have a rough life. All they've said is that this is the issue that bothers us and we want it to change. A breast cancer fundraiser doesn't mean they hate people with prostate cancer. Seriously, some of you are so fragile that if a group wants to do good and it happens to not cover you, you see it as an attack and it's pathetic.
 
Aleksandar37 said:
What is it about BLM's message that scares or bothers most of you?
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This is what I remember them for in NYC in 2014.

"What do we want? Dead cops! When do we want it? Now!"

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