Your favorite natural test booster if you're natty.

JYD said:
What about Fordrox? Looks like a good formula without too much other "all emcompasing" stuff added in. ??

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Kaged Muscle Ferodrox - Underrated Lean Body Mass Accrual Agent - AnabolicMinds.com

Instead of a single ingredient write-up, I wanted to bring some shine to an underrated product - Ferodrox. Previous Single Ingredient Write-Ups: Agmatine: https://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/289556-agmatine-more-than.html Curcumin...
anabolicminds.com anabolicminds.com
 
muscleupcrohn said:
If you want the simplest, most barebones, budget option that’s cheap but has promising research on the ingredients and good user feedback, 600mg/day KSM-66 ashwagandha and 500mg/day PrimaVie shilajit is a good stack that you can use daily for months. Most products only use 200-250mg/day PrimaVie, but the most promising research I’ve seen used 500mg/day. Shouldn’t run you more than $20/month for the two together. I don’t see either of these ingredients messing with sleep either TBH, but YMMV I suppose.
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Agreed. This is a very good way to go. But for $10 more a month ($30 total), you could get M-Test which is a very comprehensive product. Just another option!
 
ohh only for natty discussion ?

*leaves*
 
aaronuconn said:
Agreed. This is a very good way to go. But for $10 more a month ($30 total), you could get M-Test which is a very comprehensive product. Just another option!
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That’s true, but I’m still of the opinion that PrimaVie is likely best at 500mg/day. So if you can spend another $8/month on top of M-Test, add another 250mg cap of PrimaVie. :)
 
aaronuconn said:

Kaged Muscle Ferodrox - Underrated Lean Body Mass Accrual Agent - AnabolicMinds.com

Instead of a single ingredient write-up, I wanted to bring some shine to an underrated product - Ferodrox. Previous Single Ingredient Write-Ups: Agmatine: https://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/289556-agmatine-more-than.html Curcumin...
anabolicminds.com anabolicminds.com
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Why does everyone use 200mg PrimaVie and then reference the study in infertile men?

We have research in normal, recreationally trained subjects that found 500mg is superior to 250mg:

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and another study in normal subjects that had good results with 500mg/day:

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And a third study in normal, but overweight/obese, subjects, also with 500mg/day:

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Considering that these products seem to be marketed towards providing benefits for normal lifters, I’d think it’d make sense to dose it how it’s been shown to benefit normal lifters, not infertile men. If it’s used as a part of a PCT, then I could see the argument for lower doses, since perhaps that’d bring them closer to the population of the study that used lower doses, but then again, one could argue you’d want an “ideal” dose even more in PCT than you would just for a boost to normal levels. But if you’re running PCT, you should have a SERM anyway, and anything else would just be an added bonus to help feel better faster I suppose.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
That’s true, but I’m still of the opinion that PrimaVie is likely best at 500mg/day. So if you can spend another $8/month on top of M-Test, add another 250mg cap of PrimaVie. :)
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i agree doesnt hurt to add in extra Shilajit

but studies showed great results on lower dose as well

"Initially, 60 infertile male patients were assessed and those having total sperm counts below 20 million ml−1 semen were considered oligospermic and enrolled in the study (n = 35). PS capsule (100 mg) was administered twice daily after major meals for 90 days. Total semenogram and serum testosterone, luteinising hormone and follicle‐stimulating hormone were estimated before and at the end of the treatment. Malondialdehyde (MDA), a marker for oxidative stress, content of semen and biochemical parameters for safety were also evaluated. Twenty‐eight patients who completed the treatment showed significant (P < 0.001) improvement in spermia (+37.6%), total sperm count (+61.4%), motility (12.4–17.4% after different time intervals), normal sperm count (+18.9%) with concomitant decrease in pus and epithelial cell count compared with baseline value. Significant decrease of semen MDA content (−18.7%) was observed. Moreover, serum testosterone (+23.5%; P < 0.001) and FSH (+9.4%; P < 0.05) levels significantly increased. "
 
GQdaLEGEND said:
i agree doesnt hurt to add in extra Shilajit

but studies showed great results on lower dose as well

"Initially, 60 infertile male patients were assessed and those having total sperm counts below 20 million ml−1 semen were considered oligospermic and enrolled in the study (n = 35). PS capsule (100 mg) was administered twice daily after major meals for 90 days. Total semenogram and serum testosterone, luteinising hormone and follicle‐stimulating hormone were estimated before and at the end of the treatment. Malondialdehyde (MDA), a marker for oxidative stress, content of semen and biochemical parameters for safety were also evaluated. Twenty‐eight patients who completed the treatment showed significant (P I] I] QUOTE]
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Can you inherently extrapolate results from infertile men to normal healthy subjects though? I’d caution against doing that, especially since we do have a study in normal, trained subjects that seems to show the superiority of 500mg to 250mg. And another in normal subjects with 500mg. And a third in normal but overweight/obese subjects with 500mg too.
 
M-Test didn't work for me. Sleep issues. I stopped after 7 days. Some boosters effect my sleep. My brother is in the supplement industry and does formulations for a lot of the big brands. He's had some of the same issues Ive had with certain natty test boosters and natty anabolics effecting our sleep negatively. ...I realize a LOT of folks here say their sleep improves on these combo formulas, but there are a few of us they don't agree with unfortunately.

I think it's the Macuna that effects my sleep negatively. Maybe it needs to take a week or two to settle for me, but I've never gotten that far.

I do think the M-Test ingredients are tops!

I appreciate all the feedback. Keep them coming.
 
JYD said:
M-Test didn't work for me. Sleep issues. I stopped after 7 days. Some boosters effect my sleep. My brother is in the supplement industry and does formulations for a lot of the big brands. He's had some of the same issues Ive had with certain natty test boosters and natty anabolics effecting our sleep negatively. ...I realize a LOT of folks here say their sleep improves on these combo formulas, but there are a few of us they don't agree with unfortunately.

I think it's the Macuna that effects my sleep negatively. Maybe it needs to take a week or two to settle for me, but I've never gotten that far.

I do think the M-Test ingredients are tops!

I appreciate all the feedback. Keep them coming.
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Hm, the L-Dopa is quite low in M-Test. Unless you’re super responsive to it. I know 250mg+ can sometimes mess with my ability to fall asleep
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Can you inherently extrapolate results from infertile men to normal healthy subjects though? I’d caution against doing that, especially since we do have a study in normal, trained subjects that seems to show the superiority of 500mg to 250mg. And another in normal subjects with 500mg. And a third in normal but overweight/obese subjects with 500mg too.
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I wonder if we’ll ever see a design with, say, 750mg or even 1g
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Can you inherently extrapolate results from infertile men to normal healthy subjects though? I’d caution against doing that, especially since we do have a study in normal, trained subjects that seems to show the superiority of 500mg to 250mg. And another in normal subjects with 500mg. And a third in normal but overweight/obese subjects with 500mg too.
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I remember when K1NGS BLOOD first came out and I questioned the dosage of PrimaVie (rather low) in that product and you also chimed in. Hard to believe it was that long ago...how time flies!

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KB was still an excellent product, but it would likely be even better with more PrimaVie. I know they reformulated it and claim it will be the best version ever. It will be interesting to see if they increased the dose.
 
Ricky10 said:
I remember when K1NGS BLOOD first came out and I questioned the dosage of PrimaVie (rather low) in that product and you also chimed in. Hard to believe it was that long ago...how time flies!

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KB was still an excellent product, but it would likely be even better with more PrimaVie. I know they reformulated it and claim it will be the best version ever. It will be interesting to see if they increased the dose.
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Was that really 3 years ago? Man, time does fly!
 
aaronuconn said:
Hm, the L-Dopa is quite low in M-Test. Unless you’re super responsive to it. I know 250mg+ can sometimes mess with my ability to fall asleep
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Thx, brother. I went back and found my comments on the M-Test here and the issue was I was tired all day. So me and some others thought it was the Ash+Macuna. Hence, why I like less ingredients in some of these products, but I champion that they work so well for others.

Cheers.
 
JYD said:
M-Test didn't work for me. Sleep issues. I stopped after 7 days. Some boosters effect my sleep. My brother is in the supplement industry and does formulations for a lot of the big brands. He's had some of the same issues Ive had with certain natty test boosters and natty anabolics effecting our sleep negatively. ...I realize a LOT of folks here say their sleep improves on these combo formulas, but there are a few of us they don't agree with unfortunately.

I think it's the Macuna that effects my sleep negatively. Maybe it needs to take a week or two to settle for me, but I've never gotten that far.

I do think the M-Test ingredients are tops!

I appreciate all the feedback. Keep them coming.
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The KSM66 is known to have this effect on some.
 
Garyboy said:
The KSM66 is known to have this effect on some.
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If anything, Ashwagandha has benefits for sleep in most people. Granted, there are always people who respond poorly to anything, but:

Ashwagandha extract is a natural compound with sleep-inducing potential is well tolerated and improves sleep quality and sleep onset latency in patients with insomnia at a dose of 300 mg extract twice daily. It could be a potential candidate for treatment of insomnia and anxiety.
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No adverse effects reported in the above study.

Also this one:

In the Ashwagandha group, by Day 60 there was a significant reduction in scores corresponding to all of the item-subsets: 76.1% for the “Somatic” item-subset, 69.7% for the “Anxiety and Insomnia” item-subset, 68.1% for the “Social Dysfunction” item-subset, 79.2% for the “Severe Depression” item-subset. In contrast, in the placebo control group, the corresponding reductions in scores were much smaller: 4.9%, 11.6%, –3.7% and –10.6%, respectively.
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muscleupcrohn said:
If anything, Ashwagandha has benefits for sleep in most people. Granted, there are always people who respond poorly to anything, but:



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No adverse effects reported in the above study.

Also this one:



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Yeah, maybe dosing it all at night is what some have to do. The groggyness/tiredness is the problem I had with M-Test. I don't remember that with AlphaMax, but there was a reason I stoppped that one as well. My first run of AlphaMax went well, but not the second one.

Ugh... Kinda annoying. Overall, I sleep well without those ingredients, hence a product with simple t-boosting would be ideal. Hard to find those now as a lot of popular products have all these ingredients. I am glad others see positive results from them. Whatever works!
 
JYD said:
Yeah, maybe dosing it all at night is what some have to do. The groggyness/tiredness is the problem I had with M-Test. I don't remember that with AlphaMax, but there was a reason I stoppped that one as well. My first run of AlphaMax went well, but not the second one.

Ugh... Kinda annoying. Overall, I sleep well without those ingredients, hence a product with simple t-boosting would be ideal. Hard to find those now as a lot of popular products have all these ingredients. I am glad others see positive results from them. Whatever works!
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I prefer to take all my KSM-66 in the evening if I have the option, but as long as I have caffeine with my morning/afternoon dose, it’s not big deal for me. But we’re all different.

Standalone ingredients may be the way to go for people who don’t respond well to multiple multi-ingredient products here IMO. That way you can adjust or time your dosing for ingredients separately, and see which ingredients cause issues. So you can try ashwagandha, try Shilajit, try tongkat ali, etc.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
If anything, Ashwagandha has benefits for sleep in most people. Granted, there are always people who respond poorly to anything, but:



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No adverse effects reported in the above study.

Also this one:



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KSM is stimulating to a lot, while Sensoril is more known to promote relaxation.
 
I prefer this dosing.
PrimaVie at 500mg/day. 250mg am / 250mg pm. I use the 250mg caps
KSM-66 all 600mg AM. (2ea. 300mg caps) but I'm a pretty heavy coffee drinker and can use the calmness with my work.

My wife even started this regament about 3 weeks ago. WOW daddy likey!
Her job is pretty stressful as well and she likes the calm focus the KSM-66 gives her. PrimaVie seems to fire an already active labido for her as well!
 
Studhorse said:
I prefer this dosing.
PrimaVie at 500mg/day. 250mg am / 250mg pm. I use the 250mg caps
KSM-66 all 600mg AM. (2ea. 300mg caps) but I'm a pretty heavy coffee drinker and can use the calmness with my work.

My wife even started this regament about 3 weeks ago. WOW daddy likey!
Her job is pretty stressful as well and she likes the calm focus the KSM-66 gives her. PrimaVie seems to fire an already active labido for her as well!
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Nice. What brand PrimaVie do you use?
 
Studhorse said:
I prefer this dosing.
PrimaVie at 500mg/day. 250mg am / 250mg pm. I use the 250mg caps
KSM-66 all 600mg AM. (2ea. 300mg caps) but I'm a pretty heavy coffee drinker and can use the calmness with my work.

My wife even started this regament about 3 weeks ago. WOW daddy likey!
Her job is pretty stressful as well and she likes the calm focus the KSM-66 gives her. PrimaVie seems to fire an already active labido for her as well!
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I know KSM has some research on improving sexual function in women, and reducing stress/anxiety is always good for the bedroom too. And it wouldn’t surprise me if PrimaVie helps too. Two solid ingredients for sure!
 
None of them really work, total P L A C E B O O

Have tried Nugenix, M-TEST, T3ST1FY, KiNGSbL00d, raw whole bull shark semen, (-)Epi, Follistrone, Viron, Vector, and they're all ****.

Laxogenin works, but that's just because the Chinese labs are selling off-label steroids and calling it 'Laxogenin'
 
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muscleupcrohn said:
"None of them?" Does that happen to include the ones with multiple double-blind PLACEBO-CONTROLLED studies showing they work? Get out of here...
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'studies'... Clearly a supplement promoter. Go back to China!

You want a supplement that is well-studied and universally agreed to work? Go buy creatine monohydrate and mix it in some whey protein. Maybe take some GABA. Then go to sleep and dream sweet dreams about the money you saved not buying these supplement promoters' snake oil.
 
nãomiguel said:
'studies'... Clearly a supplement promoter. Go back to China!

You want a supplement that is well-studied and universally agreed to work? Go buy creatine monohydrate and mix it in some whey protein. Maybe take some GABA. Then go to sleep and dream sweet dreams about the money you saved not buying these supplement promoters' snake oil.
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China? Ok then...

Hell, is creatine not a supplement? Yes, it is. You said so yourself. It works. Betaine anhydrous? Ashwagandha? There are indeed some supplements/ingredients that work...
 
muscleupcrohn said:
China? Ok then...

Hell, is creatine not a supplement? Yes, it is. You said so yourself. It works. Betaine anhydrous? Ashwagandha? There are indeed some supplements/ingredients that work...
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I think you're equivocating here. Creatine and betaine are not 'supplements' in the same way Ashwaganda or the other plants, herbs, and extracts in these fake, phony, voodoo remedies -- what you call test boosters -- are 'supplements'. Its also a hasty generalization of my argument, to wit that creatine, whey protein, and sleep are well-studied and beneficial.
 
nãomiguel said:
I think you're equivocating here. Creatine and betaine are not 'supplements' in the same way Ashwaganda or the other plants, herbs, and extracts in these fake, phony, voodoo remedies -- what you call test boosters -- are 'supplements'. Its also a hasty generalization of my argument, to wit that creatine, whey protein, and sleep are well-studied and beneficial.
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Ashwagandha is FAR from fake, or voodoo. Besides over 6,000 years of traditional Ayurvedic use, it actually has a TON of studies showing a wide range of benefits, including reduced stress/anxiety, reduced cortisol, increased testosterone, endurance, strength, muscle mass, sexual function, reaction time, etc. It's one of the most well-researched supplements there is actually.
 
rowz4broz said:
im enjoying super natty
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Me too! I have gone through 4 bottles in the past 6-8 months. My current bottle is almost gone and I actually just use it occasionally. On those mornings, it definitely takes me a bit longer to leave the house 😋
 
Ricky10 said:
Me too! I have gone through 4 bottles in the past 6-8 months. My current bottle is almost gone and I actually just use it occasionally. On those mornings, it definitely takes me a bit longer to leave the house 😋
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Just heard of this, it's expensive! Unfortunately cheapest I could find with 20% off doesn't even ship to Australia lol
 
AdelV said:
Thoughts on primeval labs neanderthal?
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The DAA is not even Sodium DAA, which has been shown to have some value in the first few weeks post cycle, but otherwise counterproductive. On a side note, DAA based powdered test boosters like this that were somewhat popular years ago were also notorious for causing blow out shyts! That was why I always opted for D-Pol instead, and I still enjoy that for short periods.

I am a Maca fan, but this particular extract could be garbage. The rest of the formula is also quite meh 😉. I would predict that you would not be very happy with this purchase...
 
Ricky10 said:
The DAA is not even Sodium DAA, which has been shown to have some value in the first few weeks post cycle, but otherwise counterproductive. On a side note, DAA based powdered test boosters like this that were somewhat popular years ago were also notorious for causing blow out shyts! That was why I always opted for D-Pol instead, and I still enjoy that for short periods.

I am a Maca fan, but this particular extract could be garbage. The rest of the formula is also quite meh 😉. I would predict that you would not be very happy with this purchase...
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That may be the old version, but it's $30aud on sale so very cheap
Some of these others are 60usd, and I don't see anyone making claims of building muscle? I wake up with wood nearly every morning, I welcome a libido boost but not for $100aud+ 🤣🤣🤣 god damm
 
AdelV said:
That may be the old version, but it's $30aud on sale so very cheap
Some of these others are 60usd, and I don't see anyone making claims of building muscle? I wake up with wood nearly every morning, I welcome a libido boost but not for $100aud+ 🤣🤣🤣 god damm
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Yeah, that looks like an old formula I think. I checked on their actual website, and it's:

750mg Sensoril Ashwagandha
400mg Maca Powder
400mg Fenugreek Extract (50% Saponins)
300mg Longjack Extract
10mg Boron
5mg Bioperine

So the 750mg Sensoril is actually a very solid dose. Very solid.

But 400mg of Maca powder, not even an extract, is very not solid, to put it mildly.

I'm not really sold on, or in love with, you standard fenugreek either.

300mg longjack extract can be a good dose if it's a good extract, but we don't really know. What type of extract is it? No standardization? Potency? We don't really know.

Boron is cool.

Piperine is just thrown in everything nowadays, regardless of if it'll actually help the ingredients in a given product, so I'm pretty neutral on it most of the time TBH.

So the heavy hitter here is the really solid dose of Sensoril ashwagandha, and the longjack may or may not be solid too, depending on the extract used. And the boron too I guess.

I don't know prices where you are, but here in the US, I can get 750mg/day Sensoril for $12/month. And if you don't want to pay a premium for LJ100 tongkat ali, Barlowe's (who generally has high-quality extracts) sells a 100:1 extract that's ~$9/month, in the US anyway. Without knowing the exact extract this other product uses, it's sort of an unknown, but I highly doubt it's standardized if they don't list/mention it, so this extract would likely be just as good, at least, but who knows. I also don't think boron is very expensive either, but I'm not 100% on that TBH.

What exactly do you hope to get out of these products?
 
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