Unanswered Self administered trt

[jrock645]

Ok, so I had an appointment with an anti aging clinic today. Wasn’t sure what to expect, as they don’t advertise themselves as a trt clinic and they offer more than just that. Bloodwork was included as part of the consult.

Long story short, total test came in at 439, which is the same as some bloodwork in late March said. I’m 34 as a reference point. They’re recommending trt, at $600 a month. Clearly, not doing that. However, self administered trt has crossed my mind before, and is under heavy consideration after this. Obviously, one can do this themselves for probably $30 a month give or take plus periodic lab work.

Still wanting to have kids in a couple years, obviously hcg would be necessary. Anyone here self administer trt, or did before being able to get it through a doc w/ insurance? I’ve read a lot from guys on here and elsewhere to feel like I have a fairly good understanding of what’s involved... anything else I need to know?

 

[CroLifter]

I am self administering, sort of a cruise, while waiting for hcg to "fully" wake up testicles (but in all honesty enjoy being where i am now hahah constantly postponing coming off).
And i have some projects going on in my business where i simply cant afford having brain fog and not being mentally sharp.

I am using 50mg test e 2x per week and 500iu hcg 2x per week.

I would say 50mg 2x per week of E or Cyp with 250 iu hcg 2x per week is a good starting point. But everyone is different and you will need to do tons of bloodwork.

But for someone going self-administering route i cant see the above protocol being too far off, you can always adjust down the road according to bloodwork

 

[Mathb33]

I was self administering, went for a trt clinic but it’s just too expensive so I went back to self administering. From watching you interact over here im pretty sure you have the knowledge needed for self trt.

 

[Outofbody]

I have been self-administering for almost 10 years now. I even travel internationally with my vials and pins, never had a problem.

 

[Mathb33]

I have been self-administering for almost 10 years now. I even travel internationally with my vials and pins, never had a problem.

What? How? In your freaking suit case like no fucks given??

 

[Nac]

Lol I was wondering the same

 

[jrock645]

What? How? In your freaking suit case like no fucks given??

Well, theyre looking for bombs not steroids. So it doesnt shock me.

 

[bradleyt1]

I was self administering, went for a trt clinic but it’s just too expensive so I went back to self administering. From watching you interact over here im pretty sure you have the knowledge needed for self trt.

Sorry but I would rather save up and do TRT the right way.. not self administering non FDA approved drugs.. my health is worth way more to me than that

 

[Outofbody]

What? How? In your freaking suit case like no fucks given??

Yes, I've done that. In my checked suitcase, but the best was when I was on a cycle of peptides and did not want to stop for a trip. I packed pins, cold packs, multiple vials of CJCw/dac, GHRP's and bac water into a small carry-on bag. I walked right through the medical check-in line with absolutely no fucks given, and they scanned my bag and let me through no problem. I was flying Newark airport to Toronto, Canada. Two very major airports.

 

[Outofbody]

Sorry but I would rather save up and do TRT the right way.. not self administering non FDA approved drugs.. my health is worth way more to me than that

The issue is the right way is not what most doctors prescribe. Most of them do it the simple cookie cutter, non-effective way. Most of us here take our labs into our own hands and make sure things are balanced on our own, due to an overal lack of knowledge out there amongst anti-aging doctors. Most of them just want the $$$ for the gear.

 

[Nac]

Well, theyre looking for bombs not steroids. So it doesnt shock me.

I get your sentiment, but he did say international travel. NZ and Auz customs are notoriously the most strictest and thorough in the world. Theres no fukn way Id travel through those customs with gear.

 

[Nac]

Sorry but I would rather save up and do TRT the right way.. not self administering non FDA approved drugs.. my health is worth way more to me than that

I cant afford FDA approved trt. Id rather take a risk with UGL testosterone and get my hormones back to normal levels, than have suboptimal levels and feel like utter crap...my health is worth way more to me than that

 

[Mathb33]

Sorry but I would rather save up and do TRT the right way.. not self administering non FDA approved drugs.. my health is worth way more to me than that

Yeah if you’re the average joeblow who gets his **** at any sources he can find. I’ve worked hard to get into private Canadian labs who aren’t open to publics and sell exactly what your doctor would prescribe you. Not every sources are sketchy. Tired of hearing that ****. Also I’ll consider your opinion the day you can’t get up in the morning and you’re so down you’re almost suicidal and your dick ain’t working for the past 4 months and you can’t pay for trt because you got no insurance. Let’s see which road you take if you’re in such a situation one day

 

[Matthersby]

I’m with #Outofbody all the way.
I’ve brought all sorts of questionable stuff on flights. Do I bring test labeled test? Or 15 vials like I could be distributing? No, but I’ll bring everything else I’m running and take a shot before I leave, and no one has ever stopped me once to question what it is. I’ve brought 600 Kratom pills on a trip and nothing, could have been black tar heroin and no one would have said **** if Dogs didn’t sniff it out.

#jrock645, been on 5 years with the first 6 months monitored by my Urologist that did my vasectomy. That’s it. But I don’t **** around, and when I say I’m gonna check labs every 3-4 months, I do it. And I know EXACTLY what I’m asking to be tested and how to read it. I would recommend to not even consider TRT if you’re not going to draw labs 4x annually AS WELL as precycle, midcycle and postcycle. All of those.
CRP, PSA, ferritin/rdw/rbc hematocrit and hemoglobin, liver values FULL cardiac panel, FULL hormone panel, thyroid, (this is just off the top of my head, there’s certainly more)not only tested but you should have a seriously strong understanding of each one of them and how testosterone will undoubtedly affect them. You have to be prepared when your blood gets too thick to donate or bloodlet yourself THAT day. I’ve seen what a pulmonary embolism looks like from a blood clot in a healthy individual that just happened to take a long flight to Australia and got one in her leg. ——-and it goes like this, she’s talking to you with a swollen ankle and a little chest pain, and she falls over and has a few tiny gasps for air, and dies inside of one minute. And there’s not one fucking thing you can do about it, you can’t shock them or pump them full of epinephrine or slap some nitro paste on them. You watch them die helpless to do **** about it.
If any of us say there’s no real risk to TRT, we would be lying to you. Will your blood certainly get too thick at some point? It may not ever honestly, but if you aren’t checking it like you should be, especially if your blasting the shyt out of EQ and Deca recklessly bc F it, you don’t ever have to do pct anymore, bc you don’t want the inconvenience of going to the doc and explaining why you give yourself test without a doctors consent and they give you shyt, or you don’t want to drop $60, then you won’t even know if you are in danger..
You know your ****, so this may be nothing you don’t already know, but take it serious. And don’t worry about getting anyone pregnant. Just jump off and blast a little HCG and eat Clomid and you may need some cialis, and it may take 6 months, but people that do a shitload more gear than you or I, for way way longer, have done it.
-labs (over and over, you should be sick of getting them since you go so often)
-be prepared to donate or take some kind of action immediately
-take it serious as a heart attack(bc that’s what you’ll get if you don’t)
And continue reading on the TRT forum) since new info pops up weekly on here.

Another thing, there’s long term studies that test gel, or cream, or TD whatever, has 1/10the risk of blood viscosity issues. Something I would not have even known but I was being vigilant about this dangerous choice I made 5 years ago, and I read about it all the time, and once I’ve settled things down with bodybuilding a little, I’m going to switch over to TD so I can live a long healthy life.

 

[Outofbody]

Yeah if you’re the average joeblow who gets his **** at any sources he can find. I’ve worked hard to get into private Canadian labs who aren’t open to publics and sell exactly what your doctor would prescribe you.

Oh man, I may need help with that if I ever move back to Toronto! I might move back in the next year or so.

 

[Matthersby]

I cant afford FDA approved trt. Id rather take a risk with UGL testosterone and get my hormones back to normal levels, than have suboptimal levels and feel like utter crap...my health is worth way more to me than that

I’m at a point where I could, but why would I?
I’m willing to pay what the drug costs from the pharmacy(this is no insurance, even though I have insurance) which on average is double ugl price and then 35 for a copay 1-2 times every 3-4 months, anything outside of that is ripping us off. They don’t provide any more care than my primary care doc gives me and he monitors my TRT without prescribing it, and it costs 35 per visit every 3 months. Why would I pay $400-$500 for someone to inconveniently give ME injections and charging me once a week to get what I would do 3x a week on my own?
It’s a ripoff, and I work too hard for my money to pay someone who I only essentially need to order my labs for me or prescribe something for bp or whatever I may need. All that other stuff is an excuse to charge us more.
Now Entourage our old board sponsor will do over the phone TRT for like $100-$199/month. I can digest that until I realize that’s how much I spend A YEAR on testosterone. So there’s really no point for me.

 

[CroLifter]

Another thing, there’s long term studies that test gel, or cream, or TD whatever, has 1/10the risk of blood viscosity issues. Something I would not have even known but I was being vigilant about this dangerous choice I made 5 years ago, and I read about it all the time, and once I’ve settled things down with bodybuilding a little, I’m going to switch over to TD so I can live a long healthy life.

Probably because people on transdermals dont attain the levels they do with injectable? Pople usually shoot for high end of normal with injectable at the trough, meaing they are high throughout the week.

How could method of delivery impact rbc production?

Well, only if "area under the curve" of (imagine a graph, testosterone levels are the y axis and time is the x axis) is smaller there would be less of an increase in rbc production.

So lowering the injectable dose is a logical solution. I cant see injectable being worse for rbc production if respective T levels are roughly the same.

I inject 50mg 2x per week and hematocrit is not rising.

With gels one has to consider issues like declining absorbability over time (heard that can happen) and also anytime you open up a skin with a carrier to let the drug into you there is a possibility that something else might find its way into your body.

Remember those stories about dmso and possibility of bacteria and nasty stuff ending up in your body.

 

[Outofbody]

@Matthersby yup! I've had more trouble with test cream that was labelled testosterone, compared to unmarked vials of test/deca and peptides!! They didn't want to let me onboard with the freaking test-cream prescription! It had the prescription label on it too!

 

[Matthersby]

Probably because people on transdermals dont attain the levels they do with injectable? Pople usually shoot for high end of normal with injectable at the trough, meaing they are high throughout the week.

How could method of delivery impact rbc production?

Well, only if "area under the curve" of (imagine a graph, testosterone levels are the y axis and time is the x axis) is smaller there would be less of an increase in rbc production.

So lowering the injectable dose is a logical solution. I cant see injectable being worse for rbc production if respective T levels are roughly the same.

I inject 50mg 2x per week and hematocrit is not rising.

With gels one has to consider issues like declining absorbability over time (heard that can happen) and also anytime you open up a skin with a carrier to let the drug into you there is a possibility that something else might find its way into your body.

Remember those stories about dmso and possibility of bacteria and nasty stuff ending up in your body.

I think If I still had that monster fascination about how incredible the human body is, I would google this all day until I found a solid reason and provide myself with a deep understanding of this.
But I’m too busy so I’m going to guess:
Something along your line of thinking is where I’m at. The skin is just one more barrier, and in the body barriers are almost always filtration systems capable of osmosis/diffusion, just like a RO filter. So while the hormone makes it through, maybe it’s altered, or depleted, or even somewhat changed. We know it will never bring the same amount of hormone into the blood stream as intramuscular, just like intramuscular will never bring the same amount in as intravenously. And I’ve injected hormone into a vein, it’s terrible, what it does at that potency is frightening. And it wasn’t a straight shot, just what little made it in. You cough for 5 minutes and chest gets tight af. Your veins in your face bulge out. And right about the time you’re considering getting to the ER, it goes away. If what I suspect is true, that increases your RBC in 24 hours more than IM does in a month. So the answer is right where we think it is, the dermis is able to slow down rapid changes the hormone is capable of making, such as erythropoietin agonism . Its probably cool as hell to learn about.

 

[bradleyt1]

Yeah if you’re the average joeblow who gets his **** at any sources he can find. I’ve worked hard to get into private Canadian labs who aren’t open to publics and sell exactly what your doctor would prescribe you. Not every sources are sketchy. Tired of hearing that ****. Also I’ll consider your opinion the day you can’t get up in the morning and you’re so down you’re almost suicidal and your dick ain’t working for the past 4 months and you can’t pay for trt because you got no insurance. Let’s see which road you take if you’re in such a situation one day

Damn bro don’t gotta be all hostile and ****

 

[CroLifter]

We know it will never bring the same amount of hormone into the blood stream as intramuscular,

Exactly. but it depends on the dose of the IM. Sorry but no natural man ever produces 140mg of test per week (200mg cyp or e) and then people complain about sides at that os calling it just trt. Actual replacement dose would be closer to, if we go by actual mg's males naturally produce ( considering that men produce 3-10mg per day and then substract ester weight) , roughly 8-15mg of e or cyp per day, so 60 - 100mg per week.
Even my dose of 100mg per week is perhaps pushing it since i didnt feel like this since i was 15 libido wise (actually, i did, on cycle, but that doesnt count).
The amount of progress i am making in the gym is al pari to my teen years.
Also it seems that older men are affected by increase in rbc to a higher degree than young men.

 

[bradleyt1]

I guess my biggest fear is not knowing that if I get test outside the care of a doc, it will be dosed accurately and not have any contaminants etc.

 

[CroLifter]

I guess my biggest fear is not knowing that if I get test outside the care of a doc, it will be dosed accurately and not have any contaminants etc.

I feel you on this 100%. It is easier for some of us in europe because test can be bought in pharmacy without prescription in some countries.

I just bought hcg 3 weeks ago in the pharmacy. Walked in and when asked said it was for my cousin who is trying for a baby. Holding cash in my hand at the desk probably helped lol.

 

[CroLifter]

Yeah if you’re the average joeblow who gets his **** at any sources he can find. I’ve worked hard to get into private Canadian labs who aren’t open to publics and sell exactly what your doctor would prescribe you. Not every sources are sketchy. Tired of hearing that ****. Also I’ll consider your opinion the day you can’t get up in the morning and you’re so down you’re almost suicidal and your dick ain’t working for the past 4 months and you can’t pay for trt because you got no insurance. Let’s see which road you take if you’re in such a situation one day

Money talks ...if you got enough cash...you can have it

 

[Nac]

I guess my biggest fear is not knowing that if I get test outside the care of a doc, it will be dosed accurately and not have any contaminants etc.

Well thats not unique to you, Id imagine most of us contemplate those potential concerns.

I just think sometimes your "pharma is best!!1!" delivery can come across a little pious. Of course pharma product is preferrable. But there are other reasons folk may choose UGL, like control.

 

[jrock645]

Thanks everyone for the input. Gonna pull the trigger on this. Understand the concerns and precautions and have no issue getting regular bloodwork.

 

[Matthersby]

Thanks everyone for the input. Gonna pull the trigger on this. Understand the concerns and precautions and have no issue getting regular bloodwork.

Best of luck bro. Always here if you run into any issues plus there’s hella threads on some common stuff, especially sudden loss of libido and things like that.

 

[Matthersby]

I guess my biggest fear is not knowing that if I get test outside the care of a doc, it will be dosed accurately and not have any contaminants etc.

There’s a small leap of faith but then my labs show me the rest. If it’s 200mg and my test is 1100-1200, it’s dosed where I want it, and if my wbc count doesn’t shoot up and I don’t get infections, it’s pretty safe to assume it’s someone I want to continue buying test from.
Labs tell me the story I need.

 

[jrock645]

Best of luck bro. Always here if you run into any issues plus there’s hella threads on some common stuff, especially sudden loss of libido and things like that.

Thanks. Being on this board and the great group of guys here makes me feel pretty well prepared and comfortable in moving forward with this.

 

[Matthersby]

Thanks. Being on this board and the great group of guys here makes me feel pretty well prepared and comfortable in moving forward with this.

Same here. This is where I first proposed the idea in 2015, got feedback, read every day in the anti aging forum for 6 months and then lined it up to start checking bloods and pull the trigger. Good guys helping me do it safely and giving solid advice.