Unanswered Daily Use Ergogenic (Opinions needed)

kwinslow

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I've used more clout than anyone, I think, 20-30 tubs. The og jrod version was the absolute best performance enhancing supp ever.
I could be wrong but I think Dinoiii (Dana Houser) was the formulator for these? I used to follow him and then "poof" he was gone. Stuff tasted rough but was phenomenal.
 
sns8778

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I could be wrong but I think Dinoiii (Dana Houser) was the formulator for these? I used to follow him and then "poof" he was gone. Stuff tasted rough but was phenomenal.
That may be right. I thought that Joey Rod formulated them but then because Dinoiii was popular on the forums at the time kind of had him state that he did just to get a popularity boost. So long ago and probably they are the only two that know the true situation there. If I had to guess, they most likely tossed ideas back and forth and came up with it together.
 
sns8778

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Regarding Clout, there were things I liked about it and things I didn't from a formulation perspective.
Beta Alanine - I felt that it didn't necessarily belong but it was new and hot at the time so I see why they did it.
Tricreatine Orotate - was always curious how well this worked but never got to try it solo.
ALCAR - 1500 mg. per dose is higher than I cared for personally; I prefer 1 gram.
IP6 - very underrated ingredient
Orotic Acid - very underrated ingredient in my opinion
 
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I could be wrong but I think Dinoiii (Dana Houser) was the formulator for these? I used to follow him and then "poof" he was gone. Stuff tasted rough but was phenomenal.
I believe dana was over at LB (lean bulk) forums back In the day and was super nice to chat with

(Unless I’m thinking about a diff dinoiii but we used to bounce back ideas on that forum-rip)
 

Resolve10

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Regarding Clout, there were things I liked about it and things I didn't from a formulation perspective.
Beta Alanine - I felt that it didn't necessarily belong but it was new and hot at the time so I see why they did it.
Tricreatine Orotate - was always curious how well this worked but never got to try it solo.
ALCAR - 1500 mg. per dose is higher than I cared for personally; I prefer 1 gram.
IP6 - very underrated ingredient
Orotic Acid - very underrated ingredient in my opinion
I liked the beta alanine. Took clout 2 scoops daily and felt it added to the ergogenic aspects. The creatine + beta alanine + orotic acid (wish this was around a bit more) was awesome.

I believe dana was over at LB (lean bulk) forums back In the day and was super nice to chat with

(Unless I’m thinking about a diff dinoiii but we used to bounce back ideas on that forum-rip)
Ya I believe that was him. Man that was awhile ago..
 
sns8778

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I’m not opposed to using orotic acid or tricreatine orotate. I wouldn’t put bets alanine in it probably bc a lot of ppl don’t like it and could always buy our beta alanine 501 caps and use it separately.
 
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Resolve10

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I’m not opposed to using orotic acid or tricreatine orotate. I wouldn’t put bets alanine in it probably bc a lot of ppl don’t like it and could always buy out beta alanine 501 caps and use it separately.
Sorry I got off topic I didn’t necessarily mean beta alanine in a potential upcoming daily SNS product.

While I’d like it, it seems logistically nightmarish to me because you’d have to include full dose and it would probably be meant to be taken once daily which would not be fun for lots of people.
 
sns8778

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Sorry I got off topic I didn’t necessarily mean beta alanine in a potential upcoming daily SNS product.

While I’d like it, it seems logistically nightmarish to me because you’d have to include full dose and it would probably be meant to be taken once daily which would not be fun for lots of people.
The idea I have in my head for this product could be taken once daily or divided out twice daily. I do think Beta Alanine is better to not be included because it could always be added separately while including it would deter the people from buying it that don't want it.
 

Jeremyk1

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The idea I have in my head for this product could be taken once daily or divided out twice daily. I do think Beta Alanine is better to not be included because it could always be added separately while including it would deter the people from buying it that don't want it.
Beta alanine is really cheap, and as I recall best when dosed 3-4 times throughout the day. I personally think it’s pointless in the majority of formulas.
 
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The idea I have in my head for this product could be taken once daily or divided out twice daily. I do think Beta Alanine is better to not be included because it could always be added separately while including it would deter the people from buying it that don't want it.
While I love BA myself , agree and have seen people avoid the ingrident bc they can’t handle it .. so yeah understandable to leave it out makes sense
 
sns8778

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Yeah, I could see some people not buying it if it had beta alanine in it. I was hoping this thread would’ve gotten more attention. Not sure if it’s thay ppl don’t have more input on ingredients or if it’s that there just aren’t as many as you thought would be interested in the product.
 
Raw Dog

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I’d love BA in a split dose product, but anything with 3g+ in one dose is a no go. Absolute deal breaker for me in a pre workout
 
aaronuconn

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Yeah, I could see some people not buying it if it had beta alanine in it. I was hoping this thread would’ve gotten more attention. Not sure if it’s thay ppl don’t have more input on ingredients or if it’s that there just aren’t as many as you thought would be interested in the product.
My input:

5g Creapure (or less for MCC)
3g Taurine
3g LCLT
2.5g Betaine
2g Peak 02
480mg Tart Cherry
400mg Lemon Verbena
 
aaronuconn

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Yeah, I could see some people not buying it if it had beta alanine in it. I was hoping this thread would’ve gotten more attention. Not sure if it’s thay ppl don’t have more input on ingredients or if it’s that there just aren’t as many as you thought would be interested in the product.
My input:

5g Creapure (or less for MCC)
3g Taurine
3g LCLT
2.5g Betaine
2g Peak 02
480mg Tart Cherry
400mg Lemon Verbena
 
GQdaLEGEND

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Yeah, I could see some people not buying it if it had beta alanine in it. I was hoping this thread would’ve gotten more attention. Not sure if it’s thay ppl don’t have more input on ingredients or if it’s that there just aren’t as many as you thought would be interested in the product.
I think it’s a great missing product from our industry .. but will be one of those product I think that will be enjoyed by knowledgeable users

Some of the new like gnc goers will try it and say it sucks as a pre workout ..

But those who know how it should be taken and can reap the benefits from it
 
sns8778

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My input:

5g Creapure (or less for MCC)
3g Taurine
3g LCLT
2.5g Betaine
2g Peak 02
480mg Tart Cherry
400mg Lemon Verbena
My thoughts:

I definitely prefer MCC. I wouldn’t take one with mono in it myself.
Taurine - I agree but maybe 2 grams.
Lclt- I feel groggy at that dose personally.
Betaine - love it
Peak 02 - expensive add for someone if they aren’t concerned w endurance.
Tart cherry - agree

Things for me that it would take to consider it perfect:
Citrulline Malate
Agmatine - very underrated variety of benefits
GlycerPump (not too high of dose)
S7

Leaving out Vaso6 which I love but leaving it out bc of price and taste. And something like this as a daily use I think needs to taste great.
 
Raw Dog

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I definitely would like to see Peak02 in it as I try to take that daily and Xtend elite is expensive. Also wouldn’t mind a half dose of BA but I understand you’d get called out for underdosing that way. 2.5g TMG is solid. Definitely a couple grams taurine and I do agree with you on citmal. Indifferent on lclt, tart cherry, glycerol, and s7. Fine with either MCC or monohydrate
 
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I definitely would like to see Peak02 in it as I try to take that daily and Xtend elite is expensive. Also wouldn’t mind a half dose of BA but I understand you’d get called out for underdosing that way. 2.5g TMG is solid. Definitely a couple grams taurine and I do agree with you on citmal. Indifferent on lclt, tart cherry, glycerol, and s7. Fine with either MCC or monohydrate
$19 for 30 servings A tub of Xtend Elite, not expensive at all
Just grabbed 6 tubs at that price.
 

ironkill

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Its funny how people wont buy products that contain creatine or BA when those are two of the few with actual, real science backing them. We all want the next, new, exotic product with zero real world results.
 

Resolve10

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2.5g MCC
2.5g Creatine Mono/Anhydrous
2.5g Betaine
2g LCLT
2g Taurine
2g PeakO2
1g Agmatine
.5-1g GlycerPump (unsure best daily dosage, I plan to experiment with it outside of the workout window starting next week)
100mg Spectra (the s7 may be interesting I have no experience, but I’ve enjoyed Spectra since using it)
50mg Actigin
50mg Astragin

1) this would probably be expensive so I could see why some things would get dropped
2) how much citrulline malate? If a decent dose that could be a solid inclusion that also has good name recognition
3) Speaking of name recognition maybe some Glutamine? I know it’s beat down a bit in more “informed” circles, but I think it still has some merit.
4) I feel daily is the best spot for PeakO2. While it doesn’t need as long as something like beta alanine to work, the whole toss it into a pre deserves the same view as everyone who seems to hate seeing cumulative ingredients in preworkout formulas (I don’t mind any of those in pres though). It helps recovery via work on oxidative stress and has shown improvements to peak power, so not just an endurance ingredient IMO. My lifts go up when used.
5) I like the lemon verbena, but fear for the taste since that’s why PES said they dropped it, but something like that or just something “sexy” for 1-2 ingredients could help differentiate this as well.
6) Not trying to just be an Ergonine clone but I know you like Feurlic Acid as well. If not that then something similar could be cool.
 
Raw Dog

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Its funny how people wont buy products that contain creatine or BA when those are two of the few with actual, real science backing them. We all want the next, new, exotic product with zero real world results.
People don’t usually want creatine as they typically get it from other products and/or it’s cheap as dirt on its own. I just add mine to whatever else I’m using that day as its flavorless and doesn’t cost me much to add.

As far as BA, I know some people don’t mind the paresthesia but it drives me up the wall and makes me itch like a crack head. This one is also relatively cheap (just got 167 days worth of SNS BA pills for $26.25) and I much prefer to split my dose up throughout the day to avoid the sensation.

I agree that these are two of the best ingredients on the market and definitely the two most studied and proven. But for the reasons above, I do not believe their inclusion is absolutely necessary for a product like this. I’d still like some creatine and a half dose of BA in here for convenience sake, but if they are both left out it likely would not influence my buying decision.
 

ironkill

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People don’t usually want creatine as they typically get it from other products and/or it’s cheap as dirt on its own. I just add mine to whatever else I’m using that day as its flavorless and doesn’t cost me much to add.

As far as BA, I know some people don’t mind the paresthesia but it drives me up the wall and makes me itch like a crack head. This one is also relatively cheap (just got 167 days worth of SNS BA pills for $26.25) and I much prefer to split my dose up throughout the day to avoid the sensation.

I agree that these are two of the best ingredients on the market and definitely the two most studied and proven. But for the reasons above, I do not believe their inclusion is absolutely necessary for a product like this. I’d still like some creatine and a half dose of BA in here for convenience sake, but if they are both left out it likely would not influence my buying decision.
I hear ya dog, it wasnt directed at anyone, just something Ive noticed. Cheers bro
 
sns8778

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Its funny how people wont buy products that contain creatine or BA when those are two of the few with actual, real science backing them. We all want the next, new, exotic product with zero real world results.
I think there are people that are always looking for the next, new, exotic thing like you said, but I think there is another side of that too, especially with the general public.

Many people hate the way that Beta Alanine makes them feel and its not uncommon for some people to confuse the feeling with an allergic reaction; and for the average person, many aren't willing to go through feeling like that for the couple weeks for it to go away. I personally think its a great ingredient but totally see why it may be a better option for it to be separate.

Creatine Monohydrate - a lot of people take it with no issues but a lot of people get bloated on it and this confuses some people into thinking they are gaining fat. Or many of the people that know its just water weight still feel like it detracts from their appearance &/or makes them feel miserable. I cannot do monohydrate myself - I feel bloated and sluggish due to the bloating. I have a very small waist in terms of bone structure and hold fluid on mono to the point that I look like I swallowed a Volkswagen haha.
 
sns8778

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1) this would probably be expensive so I could see why some things would get dropped
2) how much citrulline malate? If a decent dose that could be a solid inclusion that also has good name recognition
3) Speaking of name recognition maybe some Glutamine? I know it’s beat down a bit in more “informed” circles, but I think it still has some merit.
4) I feel daily is the best spot for PeakO2. While it doesn’t need as long as something like beta alanine to work, the whole toss it into a pre deserves the same view as everyone who seems to hate seeing cumulative ingredients in preworkout formulas (I don’t mind any of those in pres though). It helps recovery via work on oxidative stress and has shown improvements to peak power, so not just an endurance ingredient IMO. My lifts go up when used.
5) I like the lemon verbena, but fear for the taste since that’s why PES said they dropped it, but something like that or just something “sexy” for 1-2 ingredients could help differentiate this as well.
6) Not trying to just be an Ergonine clone but I know you like Feurlic Acid as well. If not that then something similar could be cool.
Shortened the quote to make it easier to reply to but what you typed resembles a tentative idea i had. Except Peak O2 and LCLT. We are looking at doing a product geared more for endurance than muscle building and Peak O2 would definitely be featured in that. LCLT - some people, myself included feel very foggy headed at that dosage. I think its a decent ingredient but we have to think about it in terms of providing a great product to the educated consumer but also not anything that would make the general consumer not want to use it if it made them feel a certain way.

To reply to your questions:
1) It wouldn't be super cheap; which is why I was asking people earlier if they'd rather have an all out great 20 serving or a 30 serving with a few less ingredients.
2) 6 grams per day most likely. Enough to give results; not so much that it would be a deter someone from using it with other products that had it in there.
3) Agree. I think it gets a bad rep. I like Glutamine; I think some people and companies just over hyped it to where nothing could live up to what they claimed it does.
4) I see your point of view. In a perfect world I could definitely see including it and it would be a maybe, but in a product like this that would already be formulated to the max, it would make it even more expensive.
5) I think that ingredient is best in a capsule form. Also, I would be more worried about making the absolute best product rather than using something to be 'sexy' in this. To me, a super high end daily use product with multiple branded ingredients would be sexy haha.
6) Ferulic acid is an ingredient that I do like. Looking at using it in one or more things. I would be willing to consider it in this, but in my idea, it would already be so potent that I doubt Ferulic acid would add anything to it honestly.

I appreciate your input.

Another big thing on this is the name. The name would need to be something the average person could look at and understand that - hey, this is something I use daily to cover my muscle building staples. I think that was an issue with Ergonine, it was very cleverly named, but the average person has no idea what the word ergogenic means.
 

Resolve10

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Shortened the quote to make it easier to reply to but what you typed resembles a tentative idea i had. Except Peak O2 and LCLT. We are looking at doing a product geared more for endurance than muscle building and Peak O2 would definitely be featured in that. LCLT - some people, myself included feel very foggy headed at that dosage. I think its a decent ingredient but we have to think about it in terms of providing a great product to the educated consumer but also not anything that would make the general consumer not want to use it if it made them feel a certain way.

To reply to your questions:
1) It wouldn't be super cheap; which is why I was asking people earlier if they'd rather have an all out great 20 serving or a 30 serving with a few less ingredients.
2) 6 grams per day most likely. Enough to give results; not so much that it would be a deter someone from using it with other products that had it in there.
3) Agree. I think it gets a bad rep. I like Glutamine; I think some people and companies just over hyped it to where nothing could live up to what they claimed it does.
4) I see your point of view. In a perfect world I could definitely see including it and it would be a maybe, but in a product like this that would already be formulated to the max, it would make it even more expensive.
5) I think that ingredient is best in a capsule form. Also, I would be more worried about making the absolute best product rather than using something to be 'sexy' in this. To me, a super high end daily use product with multiple branded ingredients would be sexy haha.
6) Ferulic acid is an ingredient that I do like. Looking at using it in one or more things. I would be willing to consider it in this, but in my idea, it would already be so potent that I doubt Ferulic acid would add anything to it honestly.

I appreciate your input.

Another big thing on this is the name. The name would need to be something the average person could look at and understand that - hey, this is something I use daily to cover my muscle building staples. I think that was an issue with Ergonine, it was very cleverly named, but the average person has no idea what the word ergogenic means.
Ok so compromise you take PeakO2 out but make those caps with it in them.
 
stopstalking

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I’d love BA in a split dose product, but anything with 3g+ in one dose is a no go. Absolute deal breaker for me in a pre workout

after a month I can run it even at extreme doses and no longer get the tingles. Oh man at first though I feel like a crack head picking at my skin
 
Raw Dog

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after a month I can run it even at extreme doses and no longer get the tingles. Oh man at first though I feel like a crack head picking at my skin
Yeah took a sample of a nutrabio pre and had to leave the gym within 10 minutes of getting there **** was horrible. Got a 501 cap from sns on the way that I’m going to split throughout the day so hopefully I get the same effect. Didn’t remember it being that bad when I was younger
 
stopstalking

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Yeah took a sample of a nutrabio pre and had to leave the gym within 10 minutes of getting there **** was horrible. Got a 501 cap from sns on the way that I’m going to split throughout the day so hopefully I get the same effect. Didn’t remember it being that bad when I was younger
Split the dose up and if you can handle the crazy feelings for a few weeks they will go away.
 
sns8778

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Damnnn eta on this?
I honestly don't like giving ETA's this early in to a project. Too many things can go wrong for an accurate ETA (labels shipping late, labels having a misprint, raw materials delayed or out of stock, etc.). In a perfect world, 4 to 6 weeks but that's an absolute guesstimate.
 

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Due to many recommendations in here I decided to go ahead and order Beta Alanine and Peak 02 to test them out.

Do you all cycle or recommend cycling either of these products or stay on indefinitely similar to creatine?

I personally tend to cycle everything except my multis, fish oil, and creatine. Hell I even cycle my KSM Ashwagandha 16 weeks on 4 off.
 
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Due to many recommendations in here I decided to go ahead and order Beta Alanine and Peak 02 to test them out.

Do you all cycle or recommend cycling either of these products or stay on indefinitely similar to creatine?

I personally tend to cycle everything except my multis, fish oil, and creatine. Hell I even cycle my KSM Ashwagandha 16 weeks on 4 off.
3.2g BA split into two doses
2g Peak02 I like to take peri workout
Take daily
 
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Resolve10

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Due to many recommendations in here I decided to go ahead and order Beta Alanine and Peak 02 to test them out.

Do you all cycle or recommend cycling either of these products or stay on indefinitely similar to creatine?

I personally tend to cycle everything except my multis, fish oil, and creatine. Hell I even cycle my KSM Ashwagandha 16 weeks on 4 off.
You probably don’t “have to” cycle but I generally do.

Keep in mind both ingredients have a saturation/build up period.

PeakO2 you should notice quicker. 4g a day you’d see pretty good effects within a week, 2g a day just a little longer about within 2 weeks. Timing isn’t super important, but I like pre and/or post workout.

Beta Alanine can take a while though. I’d go 3.2g a day minimum, even up to ~6g in split doses could be solid. I’d definitely split the dose if possible and take with carbs, if possible as well.
 
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Em3

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3.2g BA split into two doses
2g Peak02 I like to take peri workout
Take daily
Do you do so indefinitely or cycle it off every X amount of time?

Any additional Taurine taken? Read Beta-Alanine may cause insufficient Taurine levels.
 
sns8778

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Due to many recommendations in here I decided to go ahead and order Beta Alanine and Peak 02 to test them out.

Do you all cycle or recommend cycling either of these products or stay on indefinitely similar to creatine?

I personally tend to cycle everything except my multis, fish oil, and creatine. Hell I even cycle my KSM Ashwagandha 16 weeks on 4 off.
I think that some people use them continuously where others feel like that after 12 weeks or so they may have gotten used to them and would respond better by taking a break and starting back.

Another interesting ingredient if you're looking for endurance is Creatinol O Phosphate (don't be deceived anyone, it is not a form of Creatine).
 
sns8778

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Do you do so indefinitely or cycle it off every X amount of time?

Any additional Taurine taken? Read Beta-Alanine may cause insufficient Taurine levels.
Taurine is something that I may miss some days by accident but is one of the few things that I never cycle off of intentionally for long periods of time. We make a Taurine powder and I take 2 grams as pretty much a part of my daily life.
 
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Do you do so indefinitely or cycle it off every X amount of time?

Any additional Taurine taken? Read Beta-Alanine may cause insufficient Taurine levels.
I’ve been taking BA and Peak02 since xtend perform came out and I now use Xtend elite (which has both) daily and have not noticed any negative sides using them daily

I personally don’t see a need to cycle them. But if I take a vacation or am away from home and don’t have my supplements I don’t stress missing days of Use

Do a trial and error where you use for 8-12 weeks and cycle off and then use last 12 weeks and form your own conclusion. Nothing trumps trial and error
 
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Resolve10

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Do you do so indefinitely or cycle it off every X amount of time?

Any additional Taurine taken? Read Beta-Alanine may cause insufficient Taurine levels.
You probably won’t need extra Taurine, but if you don’t already use it in bulk or get it in some product or another I’d recommend it. I take at least 2-3g a day for its variety of benefits.
 
Raw Dog

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I think that some people use them continuously where others feel like that after 12 weeks or so they may have gotten used to them and would respond better by taking a break and starting back.

Another interesting ingredient if you're looking for endurance is Creatinol O Phosphate (don't be deceived anyone, it is not a form of Creatine).
Always thought COP was underrated. Molecular Nutrition Peak Beta+ used to be one of my favorite products
 
sns8778

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Always thought COP was underrated. Molecular Nutrition Peak Beta+ used to be one of my favorite products
We have deals going on Creatinol O Phosphate capsules in bulk with A1 and DPS that are tremendous deals while supplies last. Basically close to a years supply for the 49.99 ballpark.
 
Raw Dog

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We have deals going on Creatinol O Phosphate capsules in bulk with A1 and DPS that are tremendous deals while supplies last. Basically close to a years supply for the 49.99 ballpark.
Stop taking all of my money haha. Gonna have to see what 4th of July deals both sites have and might add this on. Pretty well stocked on almost everything I need at the moment once my last SNS and Evomuse orders arrive. Trying to be good about my spending right now since there’s so many tempting upcoming releases from you guys. After my Epoch run I’ll probably log BMP and then Anabolic Effect. May even consider stacking the two, been killing it at work lately and my commission checks have been absurd so I’m using that as an excuse to increase my supplement budget
 
sns8778

sns8778

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Stop taking all of my money haha. Gonna have to see what 4th of July deals both sites have and might add this on. Pretty well stocked on almost everything I need at the moment once my last SNS and Evomuse orders arrive. Trying to be good about my spending right now since there’s so many tempting upcoming releases from you guys. After my Epoch run I’ll probably log BMP and then Anabolic Effect. May even consider stacking the two, been killing it at work lately and my commission checks have been absurd so I’m using that as an excuse to increase my supplement budget
A1 has them 2 for 49.99. (That's 900 capsules/500 mg. per capsule)

DPS has them at 32.99 and then 25% off thru July 3rd (code DPS10) which makes them 24.74 (for 450 capsules/500 mg. per capsule).
 
Raw Dog

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A1 has them 2 for 49.99. (That's 900 capsules/500 mg. per capsule)

DPS has them at 32.99 and then 25% off thru July 3rd (code DPS10) which makes them 24.74 (for 450 capsules/500 mg. per capsule).
For the 900 that’s 225 workouts worth at 2g, damn haha. Used to do 2g from the peak beta and 3g TMG (1g pills or would have done 2.5) and really really enjoyed that as a cheap effective preworkout back when I was in college. I’m glad you guys still have the label saving promo, almost up to 4 free products. You still require the label to be attached to the plastic though right? PITA to cut up all those bottles
 
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For the 900 that’s 225 workouts worth at 2g, damn haha. Used to do 2g from the peak beta and 3g TMG (1g pills or would have done 2.5) and really really enjoyed that as a cheap effective preworkout back when I was in college. I’m glad you guys still have the label saving promo, almost up to 4 free products. You still require the label to be attached to the plastic though right? PITA to cut up all those bottles
If you can peel the labels off, that's fine. A lot of people just had them tear when trying and would get upset because they couldn't send them in then. You can peel and send, cut them out and send, or even just send the bottles if you want to. Sending the bottles is by far easiest, it just may cost you a little more in shipping.

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https://seriousnutritionsolutions.com/reload-loyalty-program/
 

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