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RBC and dangerous blood levels.

Brain5ick

Well-known member
So my RBC is 540 (or 5.40 I can’t remember the range but it’s high end normal) HCT is 48 and HGB is 16.0. Is there anything I should watch for as far as these go? I know about H&H but I need more info on RBC and platelets as far as health and safety go. When I come back down to 200mg cyp per week will these numbers go down or will I need to dump some blood either way? Normally I’d try to get my own research done but with three jobs I haven’t had enough time so I’m asking here. Thanks in advance guys.
 
Brain5ick said:
So my RBC is 540 (or 5.40 I can’t remember the range but it’s high end normal) HCT is 48 and HGB is 16.0. Is there anything I should watch for as far as these go? I know about H&H but I need more info on RBC and platelets as far as health and safety go. When I come back down to 200mg cyp per week will these numbers go down or will I need to dump some blood either way? Normally I’d try to get my own research done but with three jobs I haven’t had enough time so I’m asking here. Thanks in advance guys.
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Aren't you on doc prescribed trt? What do they say?
 
bigbeaph said:
Aren't you on doc prescribed trt? What do they say?
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Yes but they are an hour and a half from me and I can’t see them right now. On top of three jobs I also help take care of my grandparents (they’re on hospice) so I don’t get time to do anything.
I could probably call them tomorrow but they don’t send scripts to drain blood, they pull like 160cc in their office.
 
My rbc was at about 6.5 when i last went, hemoglobbin and hematocrit were at 17 and 51 which were at the top of the range and pretty normal for them to get that high. Doctor was not to concerned about the rbc. I expected H and H to be at the top, but the rbc was a little more alarming as the top of range was like 5.8. So it had me wondering if the RBC is less important than say hematocrit levels? as far as risk of blood thickening. I didnt even think to ask my doctor about it and didnt notice until i left. I gave blood the next day and havent since then and that was 12 weeks.

Anyways not trying to hijack your post or anything. I felt this contributes to what you are asking lol. I am also interested in answers
 
Also, i B & C and i never notice giving blood causing any worthwhile reduction, and also dont really notice it rising and falling based on rather im on trt dose or other compounds, it just stays at the top of the range, sometimes a little over. I have a script and give blood every 12 weeks. I dont know how effective it really is but i just treat it AS IF it is effective. but it sure eases my mind on any worries of rising H and H


Edit: when i give blood i get down to like 45 hct and 14-15 hgb immediately, i dont know hoe long it stays and at what rate it rises
 
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This is the lab work I had done yesterday. RDW is a little high but idk much on it.
 
I really don’t mean this to sound condescending. But, “in range” means ZERO issues, no problems, no concerns, none. One might even go a step further and check lab ranges from different sources and see that “higher end of normal” might even be middle normal with other labs.
Now if your numbers are double high value, it may be time to take action.

Being proactive with your health is really good, especially around here, but do NOT be concerned in the slightest that you’re at risk for any complications at this point..
 
Matthersby said:
I really don’t mean this to sound condescending. But, “in range” means ZERO issues, no problems, no concerns, none. One might even go a step further and check lab ranges from different sources and see that “higher end of normal” might even be middle normal with other labs.
Now if your numbers are double high value, it may be time to take action.

Being proactive with your health is really good, especially around here, but do NOT be concerned in the slightest that you’re at risk for any complications at this point..
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This is info I appreciate getting though. I’m always here to learn brother!
 
I have heard of donating blood to lower rbc counts. Apparently eq is one of those supplements that will raise RBC. My cycle for my second ( first is 400mg test a week) is going to be 400mg test and 500mg eq per week. My understanding is when off hte eq they go back, but many say just donate blood every so many weeks if need be. I am a bit new so sorry if my info is wrong.
 
You can lower hematocrit somewhat by hydrating well, which increases plasma volume, thusly lowering hematocrit.

High RBCs and high Hemoglobin are good things in the short term for athleticism, high platelets are very very bad always.

Hematocrit is the expression of the percentage of RBCs vs total blood. This is a fact.

If it is close to 50 or above, that is not good, aspirin should be used. This is a fact.

Aspirin will thin the blood (lower HCT) and lower plate count (further lowering HCT) and also prevent platelets from sticking together. These effects are somewhat debatable. Aspirin is an anticoagulant and a blood thinner.
 
About the only thing correct in the above post is that hydration will lower HCT, so always makes sure you are hydrated.
 
No fight, just don't need people thinking that having HCT around 50 is a bad thing, the aspirin is going to lower it, or that high RBC is a good thing (low isn't either).

Misinformation is dangerous in the wrong hands.
 
kisaj said:
No fight, just don't need people thinking that having HCT around 50 is a bad thing, the aspirin is going to lower it, or that high RBC is a good thing (low isn't either).

Misinformation is dangerous in the wrong hands.
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I’ll clarify since you’re a bit of a prat.
 
Any doctor out there will tell you to take daily aspirin 81mg and drink more water if your hematocrit is near the high limit or above. First thing they’ll try. Then if that stops working or doesn’t do the trick they prescribe a blood thinner.
 
I do double-red donations to lower hemoglobin/hematocrit.

It takes very little time. You benefit. Others benefit.

MDs are right to monitor the hemoglobin/hematocrit levels of TRT patients. Most will drop you off of TRT it they levels are too high (mine certainly will).

Aspirin (etc.) and hydration are important, but they will not make a enough difference once hemoglobin/hematocrit levels are too high.

I don't think about it, and I am not willing to increase my chances of a stroke - I just donate. Double-red donations make a considerable difference.
 
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Anti-Coagulants are blood thinners. Yes, they do prevent platelets from sticking together...but do not actually reduce plate count/HCT. That said, taking aspirin for me is a safety measure to prevent complications arising from high HCT/plate counts. High HCT is good for athleticism, hence Lance and EPO.

I personally would rather ride high numbers (within reason) out than bleed off precious blood letting the Red-Cross defile the sanctity of my blood-stream and mutilate my arm. Reference ranges are not God. And you are still in the range regardless. What about the risk of a poorly trained hippy chick sticking your vein with a large bore needle and potential nerve damage etc (my opinion may be tainted from a bad experience).
 
suavmcgauv said:
Anti-Coagulants are blood thinners. Yes, they do prevent platelets from sticking together...but do not actually reduce plate count/HCT. That said, taking aspirin for me is a safety measure to prevent complications arising from high HCT/plate counts.
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Well stated, and correct.
 
suavmcgauv said:
Anti-Coagulants are blood thinners. Yes, they do prevent platelets from sticking together...but do not actually reduce plate count/HCT. That said, taking aspirin for me is a safety measure to prevent complications arising from high HCT/plate counts. High HCT is good for athleticism, hence Lance and EPO.

I personally would rather ride high numbers (within reason) out than bleed off precious blood letting the Red-Cross defile the sanctity of my blood-stream and mutilate my arm. Reference ranges are not God. And you are still in the range regardless. What about the risk of a poorly trained hippy chick sticking your vein with a large bore needle and potential nerve damage etc (my opinion may be tainted from a bad experience).
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50% red blood isn’t really particularly safe any way you slice it man. Hence the range limit. Not all range limits are there for the same reasons.

If you’re pumping sludge you’re pumping sludge.
 
I donate Double Reds per Dr. orders and take 1200mg Grapefruit Seed Extract as it is supposed to help lower Hemocrit
 
Old Witch said:
50% red blood isn’t really particularly safe any way you slice it man. Hence the range limit. Not all range limits are there for the same reasons.

If you’re pumping sludge you’re pumping sludge.
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For sure, but within range is not yet sludge, and any risk factors carried on in the long run are unacceptable for something as important as our health. I just find it hard to believe that given time, there isn't a good chance that HCT levels wont drop and stabilize somewhere moderate.

I would personally feel safe being within range, even at the tip top of it as op is. I would take a baby aspirin too. I would donate if I went over range and if my doctor was going to take my script if I didn't.
 
So as recently stated I’ve started Var today at 40mg and have noticed some odd neck pains (pumps?) in the front of my neck similar to if you were to get a large pull stuck sideways in your throat (really odd) and I’m getting red as hell during my workouts as well. Should I take aspirin? 80mg? I’m going to try to dump blood tomorrow.
 
Also, just a side note.... never taking anavar so late again. BP is up, pulse rate is up, I feel like running. I have way too much energy lmao.
 
I do think this is obviously a balancing act and that every 8 weeks is likely too much in regards to dropping your iron levels too much, and some people need it even more often to actually keep HCT in range. I have a script for every 12 weeks and if i feel i need it more frequent then i go to a red cross, but a lot of times ill let the HCT ride high for a little bit so i dont crash my iron. This may not be optimal, but in regards to managing both iron and hct it kind of is. Probably the most annoying aspect of B & C or even plan trt imo. Also take a baby aspirin daily and hct is usually at 50-52 when its at its HIGHEST and have never seen it higher than that, but i do let it sit there for weeks at a time sometimes. Labwork as the only way to know as i get zero symptoms when its high(some people claim they can tell)
 
Brain5ick said:
So as recently stated I’ve started Var today at 40mg and have noticed some odd neck pains (pumps?) in the front of my neck similar to if you were to get a large pull stuck sideways in your throat (really odd) and I’m getting red as hell during my workouts as well. Should I take aspirin? 80mg? I’m going to try to dump blood tomorrow.
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I have all that. All kinds of odd neck pumps, elevated BP, and MOST definitely the flushed face. It’s pretty much most the day and it’s purple when I train. I hate to admit it, but I always think I’m going to die. I just realize how ridiculous that is though.

Aspirin every 5 hours will give you piece of mind like you’ve never had. Because you don’t need to go dump blood with rbc/H&H actually IN-range. Cyclists everywhere in the world are shaking their heads in disgust at us right now. They go through so much crap to get their RBC as high as possible and here we all are, trying to reverse it.
 
Matthersby said:
I have all that. All kinds of odd neck pumps, elevated BP, and MOST definitely the flushed face. It’s pretty much most the day and it’s purple when I train. I hate to admit it, but I always think I’m going to die. I just realize how ridiculous that is though.

Aspirin every 5 hours will give you piece of mind like you’ve never had. Because you don’t need to go dump blood with rbc/H&H actually IN-range. Cyclists everywhere in the world are shaking their heads in disgust at us right now. They go through so much crap to get their RBC as high as possible and here we all are, trying to reverse it.
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True. Im beginning it to feel it gets way too much attention as a health risk of AAS. My understanding is that without also having an elevatio in platelets, rbc isnt that big of a deal being elevated. I say that, but i still continue to take all the precautionary measures to keep it in range and treat it AS IF it needs to be managed. Having said that, there is compelling evidence on both sides of the spectrum. (Though the "evidence" that rbc doesnt matter that much seems to only be a few TRT doctors who are held in high regard that have this opinion)
 
Also, my understanding is a lot of the science behind elevated HCT and health risk is based on people with Polycthemia Vera, which is not a side effect of trt or AAS use, but instead erythrocytosis(spell check) which is different than PV
 
Steeleydan said:
Also, my understanding is a lot of the science behind elevated HCT and health risk is based on people with Polycthemia Vera, which is not a side effect of trt or AAS use, but instead erythrocytosis(spell check) which is different than PV
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According to anabolic doc, AAS can and do cause polycythemia, including in trt patients.
 
I’m still pretty convinced that if you have somewhat high HCT but low normal platelets, you’re not in real danger.
 
I’m trying to google some lab results of PV (marrow stimulates too much RBC production) patients, just to put it in perspective. They have 12-15 year life expectancy expectancy with no treatment and typical RBC’s are 5-8x normal range. I’d rather pull the study but it’s eluding me now.
 
So day two, I decided to discontinue the var for the moment, just until this issue with my throat goes away then I’ll try it again. Feel pretty lightheaded today but if I damaged my throat another way or am getting sick then that isn’t an issue tbh, it’ll pass. My throat hurts all the way down into my chest which really really sucks, a little short of breathe too but I trained back and biceps today and it went well, friend said I looked pale but I think everyone is just more worried about this than I am lol. Been drinking tons of water and taking anti inflammatory meds, some pain killers here and there. I should be fine. Just odd that “swelling of the throat” is an adverse reaction to var and the day I start this **** happens lol. My luck. After this stops though I’ll give it another shot to see if it actually is the var though.
 
Seems like you’re having some pretty odd effects. Lightheadedness is never good. You taking baby aspirin or anything?
 
Old Witch said:
Seems like you’re having some pretty odd effects. Lightheadedness is never good. You taking baby aspirin or anything?
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Yep, started last night. As of right this moment I’m feeling a lot better. Throat still hurts but not nearly as bad as before. It’s hardly noticeable. I may try just 10mg tomorrow if my throat isn’t hurting or I may give it another day, I’ll have to gauge how I feel really. If it is a reaction to the var (which I’m kind of suspicious may be winny now but I’ll talk to you about that later) it would have taken 2 days before the swelling and pain eased up, I don’t wanna take it again tomorrow and set myself back another two days because it was almost like the flu. Really odd. I haven’t cracked the primo open yet, I wanna see how this car goes again but yeah I agree, really really odd. Otherwise I felt good and pretty horny on it haha, but again that might just be placebo so who knows.
 
Well I’ll level with you. when you said you were red in the face and feel like running I immediately thought of dianabol. But then I thought of your high HCT. That’ll redden you up and give you some running energy too.
 
Old Witch said:
Well I’ll level with you. when you said you were red in the face and feel like running I immediately thought of dianabol. But then I thought of your high HCT. That’ll redden you up and give you some running energy too.
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On Dbol Trest and cialis almost daily and I’m like a red tomato face. Embarrassing af
 
Great thread.

I'm at 53, my doc told me to go give blood.
I feel great, bp ok etc

What do you guys do go every few months to donate blood?
I'm on trt
 
Well if you have big enough veins and experience with a needle, you can buy some Med supplies and do it yourself but that can get messy and dangerous if you pass out or anything during.
 
Old Witch said:
Well I’ll level with you. when you said you were red in the face and feel like running I immediately thought of dianabol. But then I thought of your high HCT. That’ll redden you up and give you some running energy too.
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I didn’t feel euphoric like “high” or anything but felt very happy, feeling of well being, random hard ons like 20 minutes after popping them, could’ve ****ed my toaster . Slightly stronger but not by much. Throat issue is gone today, still gonna wait a little while before I take that again though, have a funeral coming up and the family needs me to not be sick.
 
Side note, pissed like a racehorse all day yesterday, like constantly running to the bathroom. Legs were super vascular last night and this morning. Maybe that’s just from lack of fluid retention which is generally my guess but it was surprising. I know better than to expect drastic results with any compound after one day, definitely know better. With all the talk of Dbol and water retention though it makes me wonder if I retained a lot of water and got it all out of me through the day yesterday. I need to order more roid test vials and run this stuff again. Not about to run the primo til I figure out what it is at this point. Lots of people within a certain group have had great results with this UGL but that doesn’t necessarily mean everything is legit.
 
Brain5ick said:
Side note, pissed like a racehorse all day yesterday, like constantly running to the bathroom. Legs were super vascular last night and this morning. Maybe that’s just from lack of fluid retention which is generally my guess but it was surprising. I know better than to expect drastic results with any compound after one day, definitely know better. With all the talk of Dbol and water retention though it makes me wonder if I retained a lot of water and got it all out of me through the day yesterday. I need to order more roid test vials and run this stuff again. Not about to run the primo til I figure out what it is at this point. Lots of people within a certain group have had great results with this UGL but that doesn’t necessarily mean everything is legit.
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Starting to sound more like dianabol every time you talk about it, brother.
 
jtbull said:
I have heard of donating blood to lower rbc counts. Apparently eq is one of those supplements that will raise RBC. My cycle for my second ( first is 400mg test a week) is going to be 400mg test and 500mg eq per week. My understanding is when off hte eq they go back, but many say just donate blood every so many weeks if need be. I am a bit new so sorry if my info is wrong.
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EQ has this effect as you say. Your kidneys have multiple functions. One of which is telling the body to create more rbcs by increasing EPO. We administer EPO for a few reasons but, we monitor patients carefully while they are on it. Cyclists were dying for a while. Taking EPO to increase endurance. Blood would get too thick and theyd die.

For this reason ive never taken EQ. Keep aspirin around all over the place. If you feel pain, tightness, or squeezing around your heart. Chew a 325mg aspirin immediately and rest. See if the pain subsides. If it doesn't you may need to go to the E.R. Doctors can put you on Nitro also. Youll get the full cardiac workup so I hope you have insurance.
 
MedRat said:
EQ has this effect as you say. Your kidneys have multiple functions. One of which is telling the body to create more rbcs by increasing EPO. We administer EPO for a few reasons but, we monitor patients carefully while they are on it. Cyclists were dying for a while. Taking EPO to increase endurance. Blood would get too thick and theyd die.

For this reason ive never taken EQ. Keep aspirin around all over the place. If you feel pain, tightness, or squeezing around your heart. Chew a 325mg aspirin immediately and rest. See if the pain subsides. If it doesn't you may need to go to the E.R. Doctors can put you on Nitro also. Youll get the full cardiac workup so I hope you have insurance.
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This is what I’ve been running around saying here for years. I’m already paranoid with the other stuff I take. But my labs indicate I’m already on the high end and my dad hat a clot in his 50s. Even my DNA analysis shows I’m a high clot risk. Won’t touch Epo or EQ for that reason. I’m sure most that take either would be fine, but what if they were higher risk like myself but didn’t know?
 
Deca, anavar, anadrol, dianabol, trestolone, high dose test, and quite a few others all have the EPO stimulating effect in the kidneys.
 
if you run a 10 week test and eq cycle (450 test/400 eq bye the way is 10 ok or is 12 the norm) and only do it twice a year do the rbc return to normal afterthe cycle? Also how often can you/should you donate blood to lower the count?
 
Well trying out that “var” again today with a shot of primo this morning. 12.5mg pre workout just to see if it has that throat irritating effect. Wish me luck.
 
jtbull said:
if you run a 10 week test and eq cycle (450 test/400 eq bye the way is 10 ok or is 12 the norm) and only do it twice a year do the rbc return to normal afterthe cycle? Also how often can you/should you donate blood to lower the count?
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Usually you’d only think about RBC on a cycle 16 weeks or longer on EQ, bloodletting at about halfway through. If you’re doing 10, and taking 10 weeks off, that’s more than enough time for it to return to normal.
 
Well trying out that “var” again today with a shot of primo this morning. 12.5mg pre workout just to see if it has that throat irritating effect. Wish me luck.
 
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