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Not sure what to do next...

pono55

New member
I need help with deciding what compounds are best for me to go with next.

28 yr old. Training 10 years
5’10” 195 lbs

First two cycles
500 test e 10-12 weeks.
Pct clomid

Third cycle
500 test e
Dbol kickstart and anavar finish
Pct clomid

Have also used rad 140 and lgd 4033 on their own at 10 mg for 6 weeks with clomid as pct.

I liked the test and anavar but the back and calf pumps made my endurance work difficult. Also felt bloated.

Rad and lgd didn’t seem to do much for me.

I have had issues keeping gains each time. Usually up around 15 pounds on cycle then drop back down.

Looking for any other ideas on what to try. Looking for size gains, staying lean and being functional athletically. I still do some running and swimming.
 
Try 500 test and 200 deca with 50-100mg anadrol to start and 80mg winstrol to finish
 
Tren.....I'm kidding...don't do that one yet lol.

I might suggest DMZ. Strength and size gains are pretty solid on that compound. I'd also continue with test just as a good base of course.

You could probably do DMZ up to 6 weeks without issue as long as you have proper liver support and all that. After 6 weeks though you'd probably have diminishing returns. I, personally, did not care for DMZ and preferred Msten, but to each their own.

As far as keeping gains...that's how it goes when you PCT unfortunately. I've never run Tbol, but I've heard a lot of good things about that one. A lot of people seem to prefer it over Dbol.
 
Jeremyk1 said:
If you can’t keep gains, you might want to take a look at your workout routine.
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I would suspect it’s diet and off cycle drug regimen that’s more accountable. If it got you the gains, it can keep you those gains, if you don’t overtrain and keep trying to progress (Lee Priest on training routines)

It’s that maintenance diet that seems to fall behind. And of course any water weight automatically has to come off.
 
I’ll also add though that the pros like Lee and Dorian seemed to get downright fat when they bulked up using not much more than just a bit of Dbol, and their major use of PEDs was to cut down in contest prep, so the muscles are going to stay on for them a little better in that case.

I also think that that traditional way of bulking way up and cutting down has too much cut to it, and they lose too much muscle trying to cut off all the fat. I’ve seen other strategies less used but that seem to produce better looks as far as being a mass monster with peeled skin.

So, to recap, you can either keep the muscle you gained, or you can try to keep the leanness, but you can’t have both from every cycle. You have to pick one.
 
EQ would definitely be good for your goals, I just figured deca has a bit more of a “keeping your gains” effect and it’s a fun one to use because it’s pretty strong but keeps the joints smooth and runs long unlike a dmz or Msten which are pretty dry on the joints and 8 weeks maximum.
 
Old Witch said:
Try 500 test and 200 deca with 50-100mg anadrol to start and 80mg winstrol to finish
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My exact thoughts..except Id up the deca to 400...and I would make it a fairly long cycle..like 20 weeks. Deca is a slow and steady gainer..but gains are very keepable and the muscle built is quality muscle..dense and thick. Also, very safe cycle. AI and either prami or caber on cycle is a good addition. Wait to see if you need the AI but caber..my choice, as prami makes me feel like sh1t...from the start. .25 twice a week, you can always up it to .5 twice a week if needed.
 
swimfan65 said:
My exact thoughts..except Id up the deca to 400...and I would make it a fairly long cycle..like 20 weeks. Deca is a slow and steady gainer..but gains are very keepable and the muscle built is quality muscle..dense and thick. Also, very safe cycle. AI and either prami or caber on cycle is a good addition. Wait to see if you need the AI but caber..my choice, as prami makes me feel like sh1t...from the start. .25 twice a week, you can always up it to .5 twice a week if needed.
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Appreciate that man. My only thought with this is recovery from a 20 week cycle. I always tried to stay on the shorter side for reasons of recovery and diminishing returns after a certain point. What is your experience ?
 
pono55 said:
Appreciate that man. My only thought with this is recovery from a 20 week cycle. I always tried to stay on the shorter side for reasons of recovery and diminishing returns after a certain point. What is your experience ?
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Wrong person to ask, i havent been off in over 15 years...lol.
 
pono55 said:
Appreciate that man. My only thought with this is recovery from a 20 week cycle. I always tried to stay on the shorter side for reasons of recovery and diminishing returns after a certain point. What is your experience ?
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My experience is that 20 weeks is perfect, especially if you add an oral at 16 weeks, and kickstart with an oral as well. And most especially if using deca. The longest cycles should have a decanoated steroid of some kind even if nandrolone isn’t your preference. That’s just my opinion. Depending on how much deca you’re using and what oral you start with, think about donating blood about halfway through the cycle.
 
My totally not a doctor opinion is that fewer longer cycles is a better approach than more frequent shorter cycles. You don’t want to have to jumpstart your hpta too many times or it won’t bounce back.
 
Just my 2c but deca at 20 weeks is going to shut you down hard and make for a rough pct.

If you want a shorter cycle go with npp. Its quick in and out and could run as little as 6 weeks with it (up to 10 or 12).

Eq is a lot easier to recover off of than deca ime. And id run that before a long deca cycle if recovery is in mind.
 
I think if you are not going to use hcg you should keep cycles to about 12 weeks.

IMO a perfect cycle for you would be test prop 3-400mg a week NPP 4-500mg a week for 10 weeks with Tbol, var or winstrol for the last 6 weeks.

That way the drugs are out of your system faster and you will recover easier.
 
Godstrength said:
Just my 2c but deca at 20 weeks is going to shut you down hard and make for a rough pct.

If you want a shorter cycle go with npp. Its quick in and out and could run as little as 6 weeks with it (up to 10 or 12).

Eq is a lot easier to recover off of than deca ime. And id run that before a long deca cycle if recovery is in mind.
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You down wit NPP? Yeah you know me...

I liked NPP in short bursts as a kicker with other stuff but I’m still not sure about using it for a longer haul. But I also don’t like daily or semi daily pinning for longer than a month.

If recovery is an absolute concern then I’d leave all 19-nors off and suggest 1-T C. with Tbol to start and you can go really damn high with that and still pct is as easy as plain test.

Id say something like

400mg test C 1-20
400mg 1-T C 1-20
50mg Tbol 1-6 if desired.
80mg Winstrol 16-20 if desired.

That should be quite productive and really easy on the system even for as long as it is. The harshest compound is winstrol, and I’d say winny is hardly harsh at all. Very very tolerable.

If cardiovascular endurance is desired I would suggest adding cardarine.
 
Godstrength said:
Just my 2c but deca at 20 weeks is going to shut you down hard and make for a rough pct.

If you want a shorter cycle go with npp. Its quick in and out and could run as little as 6 weeks with it (up to 10 or 12).

Eq is a lot easier to recover off of than deca ime. And id run that before a long deca cycle if recovery is in mind.
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Exactly, plus I think that eq is best for his goals; lean gains, vascularity, endurance, etc. I’m itching to try it myself now lol.
 
Really appreciate all the info. I know there’s no exact answer but I’m going to be digging into some more research
 
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