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Do laxogenin and epicatechin need to be cycled?

u_e_s_i

u_e_s_i

Well-known member
Do laxogenin and epicatechin need to be cycled?

I just came across an article which suggests cycling off laxogenin for four weeks after every six-eight weeks on.
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Lots of guys are using Folidrone (which contains Epicatechin) year around. I have been on it since it came out. Other popular epicatechin products contain ingredients that per the manufaturer needs to be cycled. Laxo for me works well for about a month than it gets stale...so I have cycled off due to ineffectivness. Folidrone on the hand keeps getting better somehow.
 
The Solution said:
i went to google
Typed in should Laxogenin be cycled
Right off Strong's Website (site vendor)

https://www.strongsupplementshop.com/laxogenin-information

How long can Laxogenin be cycled for?
Laxogenin can be cycled for a period of 4, 8, or 12 weeks before having to cycle off for 4 weeks.



yes it should be cycled.
That did not take much effort.
monutainman33 Afi140 LeanEngineer musclemaker
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That’s what I did an hour ago but previously I’d been told that you don’t need to cycle it ����*♂️
 
u_e_s_i said:
That’s what I did an hour ago but previously I’d been told that you don’t need to cycle it ����*♂️
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Laxo is one of the most overhyped and overrated supplements. Money wasted IMO . The effects and benefits behind it for the cost are not worth it. Anytime I have used it or seen others use it it has always been cycled off the various logs ran on this board. Anytime I was instructed by companies to use it there was a cycle off period. You have to remember there is a "Law of Diminishing Returns" with ingrediets and products. You can not take everything forever and think it will just keep getting better (boosters, burners are prime examples).

There has yet to be enough human experience to signify the cost. If you wish to buy more stuff then more power to you. I have yet to see enough concrete evidence to sell me on it, and I ran it multiple times (Deficit, maintenance, and surplus) and seen nothing out of it. Even with all factors consistent and just adding in the laxo it did next to nothing.

My 2 cents for you... save your money you already buy way too many things.
 
You basically got you answer above, but I would say in general everything should be cycled off. I even change up my vitamins.
 
The Solution said:
Laxo is one of the most overhyped and overrated supplements. Money wasted IMO . The effects and benefits behind it for the cost are not worth it. Anytime I have used it or seen others use it it has always been cycled off the various logs ran on this board. Anytime I was instructed by companies to use it there was a cycle off period. You have to remember there is a "Law of Diminishing Returns" with ingrediets and products. You can not take everything forever and think it will just keep getting better (boosters, burners are prime examples).

There has yet to be enough human experience to signify the cost. If you wish to buy more stuff then more power to you. I have yet to see enough concrete evidence to sell me on it, and I ran it multiple times (Deficit, maintenance, and surplus) and seen nothing out of it. Even with all factors consistent and just adding in the laxo it did next to nothing.

My 2 cents for you... save your money you already buy way too many things.
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Excellent reply, this is basically what i came here to say. There is a point where more is not always better.
Whenever you are buying any supps you must take do a cost benefit analysis if wanna stay natty and achieve realistic goals tweaking your
diet and traning will be more than enough.
 
The Solution said:
i went to google
Typed in should Laxogenin be cycled
Right off Strong's Website (site vendor)

https://www.strongsupplementshop.com/laxogenin-information

How long can Laxogenin be cycled for?
Laxogenin can be cycled for a period of 4, 8, or 12 weeks before having to cycle off for 4 weeks.



yes it should be cycled.
That did not take much effort.
monutainman33 Afi140 LeanEngineer musclemaker
Click to expand...

^^^This... It's almost always recommended to cycle off a supplement for 4 weeks after 8 to 12 weeks of use. Like mentioned below i know a lot of people who will use epicatechin year round though.
 
thebigt said:
lol...I've heard many guys on this forum swear they don't get anything from creatine.
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First time I took creatine I put on 20lbs, every time after it did nothing, I was also 17-18 when I took it so it could have just been that growth spurt into a man
 
Smont said:
First time I took creatine I put on 20lbs, every time after it did nothing, I was also 17-18 when I took it so it could have just been that growth spurt into a man
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but I bet you don't go around saying creatine is useless?
 
thebigt said:
lol...I've heard many guys on this forum swear they don't get anything from creatine.
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Do they eat a few pounds of meat a day? That could explain it lol. Either that or they either never used it enough to reach saturation, which seems unlikely for any educated user.

There’s also literally MOUNTAINS of research showing that creatine does work. Non-responders doesn’t mean that it doesn’t work, just that it doesn’t work 100% of the time. What people ITT were saying is that laxo does not have this backing/consensus in research, so the anecdotes should be even that much better to justify using it.
 
Smont said:
First time I took creatine I put on 20lbs, every time after it did nothing, I was also 17-18 when I took it so it could have just been that growth spurt into a man
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Do you find it bloats you by a good 6Ib in the first week when you take creatine?
 
idk every time iv used laxo i get good results from it just went through one bottle of massacre might go 2 in a row then cycle off for month


epic doesnt need to be cycled???
 
u_e_s_i said:
Do laxogenin and epicatechin need to be cycled?

I just came across an article which suggests cycling off laxogenin for four weeks after every six-eight weeks on.
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Laxo, I'm not sure but epi does get better with time. Whenever I used MassMax, I will go 12-16 weeks before cycling off.
 
Now that we've gotten the bro-science out if the way, maybe a little, you know, science?

"Competitive binding inhibition studies conducted at Baylor University in Texas showed that 5-alpha-hydroxy-laxogenin did not bind to androgen or estrogen receptors."

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There's no reason, from an HPTA shut down, perspective to "cycle" 5a-hydroxy-laxogenin. That being said, if you get tired of using it and/or feel it's yielding diminished returns, which btw is typically a phenomenon seen with increased dosing, not as much with increased duration of use. In fact, it's typically the opposite as was discussed regarding creatine above ie needing to get up to and sustain a certain blood level... but I digress, switch things up if you feel that will benefit you in some way but there's really no need to cycle or PCT or anything like that with laxo.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Do they eat a few pounds of meat a day? That could explain it lol. Either that or they either never used it enough to reach saturation, which seems unlikely for any educated user.

There’s also literally MOUNTAINS of research showing that creatine does work. Non-responders doesn’t mean that it doesn’t work, just that it doesn’t work 100% of the time. What people ITT were saying is that laxo does not have this backing/consensus in research, so the anecdotes should be even that much better to justify using it.
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it is my fault for being obscure, the point I was/am trying to make is people shouldn't call laxo useless based on their not responding to it....my point would be moot if there weren't plenty of users who do respond very well to it.
 
The first time I ever tried creatine I was prob 21 or 22. Put on 10 pounds, came off to see if it was true about the weight comes right off.

I lost 8 of the 10. Don't cycle. Either stay on daily year round or not at all.
 
thebigt said:
it is my fault for being obscure, the point I was/am trying to make is people shouldn't call laxo useless based on their not responding to it....my point would be moot if there weren't plenty of users who do respond very well to it.
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Ok. My point was that we KNOW that Creatine works in the majority of people, and we KNOW it is not placebo thanks to the tons of double-blind, placebo-controlled studies supporting this.

I don’t think we can say that laxo is useless/bunk, but I also don’t think we can conclusively say that it DOES work, and I really don’t think it’s in the same level of confidence that it works as ceatine is, which is the gold standard of supplements. Most supplements aren’t nearly this well researched.

Are there any human studies on laxo? Until then, it’s one of those things where the only way to know it to try it I suppose.

It’s not a Creatine where we know it’ll work for most people, but it’s also not a DAA where we know it won’t work for most people. And not a CEE where we know it won’t work at all.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Ok. My point was that we KNOW that Creatine works in the majority of people, and we KNOW it is not placebo thanks to the tons of double-blind, placebo-controlled studies supporting this.

I don’t think we can say that laxo is useless/bunk, but I also don’t think we can conclusively say that it DOES work, and I really don’t think it’s in the same level of confidence that it works as ceatine is, which is the gold standard of supplements. Most supplements aren’t nearly this well researched.

Are there any human studies on laxo? Until then, it’s one of those things where the only way to know it to try it I suppose.

It’s not a Creatine where we know it’ll work for most people, but it’s also not a DAA where we know it won’t work for most people. And not a CEE where we know it won’t work at all.
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'are there any human studies on laxo? until then, it's one of those things where the only way to know it to try it I suppose'.



lol...the list of ingredients in supplements with no human study is a long one.
 
thebigt said:
'are there any human studies on laxo? until then, it's one of those things where the only way to know it to try it I suppose'.



lol...the list of ingredients in supplements with no human study is a long one.
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Yeah, which is why I said it’s just something you have to try. The verdict is essentially still not definitive on most supplements.
 
LeanEngineer said:
^^^This... It's almost always recommended to cycle off a supplement for 4 weeks after 8 to 12 weeks of use. Like mentioned below i know a lot of people who will use epicatechin year round though.
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Ya but for no reason other then saying take time off, it's bull****
 
From a human study on Laxo:

Maximum strength increased in all groups, but the subjects who had used 5-alpha-hydroxy-laxogenin did better than the other two groups.

Muscle size also increased in all groups of subjects, as you can see above. [Omtrek bovenarm = mid upper arm circumference.] Again, the increase seemed to be the greatest among the subjects who had used 5-alpha-hydroxy-laxogenin.

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^ The crazy Dutchmen even got their own domain to publish the results. You just gotta use Google translate.
 
From another human study on Laxo:

"In young human volunteers receiving 10-20 mg/day of the phytosterol derivative compounds of the present invention in combination with physical training, subjects reported an increase in appetite, accelerated strength and weight gain, and a virtual elimination of lactic acid formation during intense exercise such as weight resistance training. Work output before failure was also reported to be increased substantially."

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nostrum420 said:
From a human study on Laxo:

Maximum strength increased in all groups, but the subjects who had used 5-alpha-hydroxy-laxogenin did better than the other two groups.

Muscle size also increased in all groups of subjects, as you can see above. [Omtrek bovenarm = mid upper arm circumference.] Again, the increase seemed to be the greatest among the subjects who had used 5-alpha-hydroxy-laxogenin.

Invalid Link Removed

^ The crazy Dutchmen even got their own domain to publish the results. You just gotta use Google translate.
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Before I start translating stuff, who conducted the study and where was it originally published if they needed their own site to post it? Not being sarcastic, actually curious.
 
Jan de Heij, in Denmark. He's sort of like Denmark's equivalent to PA:

Jan de Heij
Cyclist since 1973. Preferred for straight roads, time trial and
Belgian cycling races.
Pharmacist from 1989. Until 2002 teacher chemistry and
pharmacy courses.
Specialty: nutritional supplements for sports performance.

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He published his results independently in the same way PA has his blog.
 
Have any of you guys followed any logs on Laxo?

At this stage I’m of the opinion that laxo works for responders but as with everything, people respond to different degrees and some just don’t respond at all.
As someone pointed out, even creatine has non-responders and I’ve read people say that epi doesn’t work for them even though it works for me and seemingly most people
 
u_e_s_i said:
Have any of you guys followed any logs on Laxo?

At this stage I’m of the opinion that laxo works for responders but as with everything, people respond to different degrees and some just don’t respond at all.
As someone pointed out, even creatine has non-responders and I’ve read people say that epi doesn’t work for them even though it works for me and seemingly most people
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Rocket3015 is logging iconogenin he seems to be enjoying it.
 
u_e_s_i said:
Have any of you guys followed any logs on Laxo?

At this stage I’m of the opinion that laxo works for responders but as with everything, people respond to different degrees and some just don’t respond at all.
As someone pointed out, even creatine has non-responders and I’ve read people say that epi doesn’t work for them even though it works for me and seemingly most people
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I think it also depends on where you get the laxo or epi. imo, oral laxo is garbage. Transdermal actually works - Icongenin is the best followed by Dermastrength. For epi - I have tried them all and Folidrone is the one that works hands down better than the others. However, this is due to other ingedients and the wicked good epi extract.
 
u_e_s_i said:
Have any of you guys followed any logs on Laxo?

At this stage I’m of the opinion that laxo works for responders but as with everything, people respond to different degrees and some just don’t respond at all.
As someone pointed out, even creatine has non-responders and I’ve read people say that epi doesn’t work for them even though it works for me and seemingly most people
Click to expand...

I did a massacre log which has laxo. No impressive results. A couple of guys logged major gains (laxo + other) no results. Based on what I have seen on logs here with visual comparisons (before and after) not worth the money. Maybe all that i have seen are non responders ..
 
thebigt said:
Rocket3015 is logging iconogenin he seems to be enjoying it.
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I have responed GREAT to Laxo and I have had favorable results with Epi, I can not say the say with Creatine it seams to do Nothing for me.

Here are links to two of my Laxo logs.

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and an Epi Log

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OK Than ??
 
Mowglisml said:
I did a massacre log which has laxo. No impressive results. A couple of guys logged major gains (laxo + other) no results. Based on what I have seen on logs here with visual comparisons (before and after) not worth the money. Maybe all that i have seen are non responders ..
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I’ve heard people say that massacre’s the best supp they’ve ever used
 
Laxogenin results (or lack thereof) vary greatly for me depending on manufacturer quality and delivery systems. Iconogenin is definitely worth trying out for anyone who has previously had a waste of money experience with Laxo in the past.

Unfortunately, I have been sick with an extended cold/sinus infection and am also trying to resolve some pain issues in my arms which has kept me out of the gym for the entire month. Despite this, I feel a pretty good pump on most days, along with some muscle fullness that normally would not be there when being on hiatus from the gym this long.

(-)-epi products are essentially a staple for me...though I have more or less dropped that for most of this month. Just trying to keep things simple until I get myself back into a better position.
 
Ricky10 said:
Laxogenin results (or lack thereof) vary greatly for me depending on manufacturer quality and delivery systems. Iconogenin is definitely worth trying out for anyone who has previously had a waste of money experience with Laxo in the past.

Unfortunately, I have been sick with an extended cold/sinus infection and am also trying to resolve some pain issues in my arms which has kept me out of the gym for the entire month. Despite this, I feel a pretty good pump on most days, along with some muscle fullness that normally would not be there when being on hiatus from the gym this long.

(-)-epi products are essentially a staple for me...though I have more or less dropped that for most of this month. Just trying to keep things simple until I get myself back into a better position.
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better pump/muscle fullness and joint pain relief are the most commonly reported affects of iconogenin.
 
thebigt said:
better pump/muscle fullness and joint pain relief are the most commonly reported affects of iconogenin.
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They sure are!

I just got back in the gym today actually too. Since I was finally able to breathe sufficiently, I figured it was worth attempting to get back in my groove! I’m starting off slow with very light weight...about 50% of what I usually lift. I have to build up my strength again without sacrificing the progress I have made with my elbow/forearm pain. I was just pleased to get through my workout without experiencing any pain!
 
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