New to AAS and need advice

Jamesdunlop

New member
Hi Guys,

I'm James, new to the forum so first all hi to all!

A bit about me - I've been training now for a couple of years, done my last cut before I went on holiday in April this year and I was disappointed what was under the layers. Since then I've been working my ass off trying to build muscle. I'm training 6 days a week (push pull legs push pull legs). Increasing calories slowly as not to be in too big a surplus and gain loads of fat but my lifts seem to be levelling out, my size doesn't seem to be increasing and I feel like I've got a wall. I've deceived I want to try AAS for bulking, I know about some being estrogenic and some non estrogenic, cycle supports, AI, estrogen blockers an pcts etc. But im looking for advice on a beginners AAS with minimum water retention and how to run it? Too much conflicting info to just read online so I thought I'd ask the people In the know.

Hope this post is allowed,

Thanks in advance
 
My first advice would be to not start a cycle anytime soon. You need to do at least several weeks of research, preferably several months. Run properly, gear is extremely safe and beneficial, but done wrong, you can mess up all kinds of stuff. In the meantime, work on your diet and training. Just “hitting a wall” is not enough reason to jump on gear. There’s dozens of other tricks for breaking plateaus, and if you rely on the gear, you won’t make much progress. You still need diet and training on point.
 
Sorry new to the whole forum thing

I'm 27
5ft 10
196lb (currently bulking)
Experience with AAS is zero
Have been coached by natural competing body builder for my first year of training so I'm aware of surplus and defiect diets and training schedules. Ive done a bulk and cut before natually and was frankly disapointed with results. I Trian solo now for the last 2years. I'm currently bulking but I feel like I'm not getting the mass I want and therefore I would like to try anabolics. I want to begin my cut at the end of January so I want to gain as much mass as possible. Hope this helps. And thanks for the reply!
 
My diet is on point! Always is. Counted out to the exact calorie... I eat the same 6 meals every day! As my output increased I'd up my calories in the same meals and limit myself to 1 or 2 lb a month weight gain as long as out out increased. I've been researching AAS for months. The different types, the side effects, the cycle supports required, the esteogen blockersor serms and pcts. The benefit of injecting of orals. I've researched it all. But I'd rather speak to experienced users as their knowledge is far more valuable than anything you can read on Google
 
Jamesdunlop said:
Sorry new to the whole forum thing

I'm 27
5ft 10
196lb (currently bulking)
Experience with AAS is zero
Have been coached by natural competing body builder for my first year of training so I'm aware of surplus and defiect diets and training schedules. Ive done a bulk and cut before natually and was frankly disapointed with results. I Trian solo now for the last 2years. I'm currently bulking but I feel like I'm not getting the mass I want and therefore I would like to try anabolics. I want to begin my cut at the end of January so I want to gain as much mass as possible. Hope this helps. And thanks for the reply!
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Well I would say you want to start off with a Test only cycle @500 spilt doses twice a week so say 250 Monday morning, 250 Thursday afternoon. You could do this for 12-16 weeks. I prefer Test-E. Make sure to have an AI on hand just incase, and get some Nolva or Clomid for PCT. Then if you wanted you could throw in some Anavar the last 6-8 weeks of the cycle. But, definetly do some research on the compounds I listed. Just so you know what your dealing with before you start.
 
DemntedCowboy said:
Well I would say you want to start off with a Test only cycle @500 spilt doses twice a week so say 250 Monday morning, 250 Thursday afternoon. You could do this for 12-16 weeks. I prefer Test-E. Make sure to have an AI on hand just incase, and get some Nolva or Clomid for PCT. Then if you wanted you could throw in some Anavar the last 6-8 weeks of the cycle. But, definetly do some research on the compounds I listed. Just so you know what your dealing with before you start.
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Thanks for the advice DemntedCoyboy!

I’ll definitely research these before starting any sort of cycle!

Would it be better to just run the AI along side the Test-E as a precaution for the 12 weeks? And do you think Nolva and Clomid are both required I’ve heard from a few sources online that Nolva would be more than enough? How long would you run the pct for on a 12 weeks of test-e cycle and at what dosages? Any other cycle supports required for liver or blood pressure that you would recommend?

I’ll research all the information for a good month or so as I look to start my cycle in October

Thanks for the help though there’s so much conflicting info out there it’s good to get some help
 
I'd actually go test 2-300 with primo of money isn't a problem at 400. I honestly think you'd have less sides and better results. If not test only is always a good one
 
Just to answer a piece of that....
You will absolutely want an ai and a serm such as nolva or ralox on hand. If you have never run aas before you have no idea how it's going to effect you. I've always recommended holding off on dosing that ai til you start to get out of range. But this also means you really have to stay on top of your bloodwork - your first few cycles is as much learning about how your going to react as much as growth. Your nolva / ralox in case you start to develop any signs of gyno. Nolva alone is NOT sufficient for a 500mg test cycle. You run the risk of estrogen spiking which means your pecker is dead, probably very high bp, etc.

You can control a lot of your bloat with diet. It sounds like you have a pretty good knowledge base on how to manipulate that.

I'll 2nd...or 3rd cowboy and say keep it simple. Take your time because if you do it right you will be very happy with your gains.
 
Jamesdunlop said:
Thanks for the advice DemntedCoyboy!

I’ll definitely research these before starting any sort of cycle!

Would it be better to just run the AI along side the Test-E as a precaution for the 12 weeks? And do you think Nolva and Clomid are both required I’ve heard from a few sources online that Nolva would be more than enough? How long would you run the pct for on a 12 weeks of test-e cycle and at what dosages? Any other cycle supports required for liver or blood pressure that you would recommend?

I’ll research all the information for a good month or so as I look to start my cycle in October

Thanks for the help though there’s so much conflicting info out there it’s good to get some help
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I wouldnt take the AI unless needed, personal preference. Dont want to crash your Estrogen. I personally only run Nolva, thats why I said Nolva or Clomid. PCT I would start 2 weeks after last injection and do 4 weeks at 40/40/20/20. And never hurts to stock up on your multi, fish oil, and if you want you could pick up some TUDCA, and NAC if your worried about your liver but I really dont think its needed on a Test Only Cycle unless you plan on throwing in the Var at the end of your cycle.
 
Chados said:
I'd actually go test 2-300 with primo of money isn't a problem at 400. I honestly think you'd have less sides and better results. If not test only is always a good one
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This
 
I think the key here is to start as low as possible.. even 500 mgs of test might be too much for some.. you may want to pin 250 mgs the first couple weeks.. another first timers option that is truly great is sustanon 250 once every 8-10 days for 12 weeks. either way start small incase your body doesn't like the androgens.. there are people here all the time who freak out in the first week or two and have to quit.. it literally happens all the time.

so be aware not everyone can use them ... everyone is different and lastly, only you can decide what your willing to risk for added muscle mass.
 
You’ve had some really good advice above if you do run a cycle bro. I would have said the same as @dementedcowboy but I also wouldn’t disagree with the other suggestions (there isn’t a right answer).

That’s if you run a cycle. At your age and training experience you could most likely continue to progress naturally simply by changing training protocol or introducing a natural anabolic. Lifts plateauing at 2-3 years is common as simple progressive overload doesn’t just keep working (sadly) and have you adjusted your diet to keep up with your increased weight over the past few years? It’s a moving target, what worked in year one and two probably won’t in year 3.

Your in that middle ground for me, wouldn’t say don’t run a cycle but just saying you don’t need to, to continue growing.

Please do make sure you research fully though, have a complete plan and get your ancillaries plus pct on hand before you start.

Good luck whichever way you go bro.
 
Thanks for all the advice guys. Its all much appreciated. I'll make sure I research all that has been said before proceeding with any sort of AAS. I know I'm still relatively new to training and could still grow a lot naturally but I feel like I'm an extremely slow grower and I just need something to push me on. Yeah my diet and calorie intake has been increasing as my weight increases but my lifts seem to be levelling out and I know progress will slow down but a lot of people I train with seem to leaving me in the dust. I won't make the decision lightly as I've still got a lot to learn about AAS, dosages, AI, Serms and Pcts.

The internet is full of loads of conflicting info and it's overwhelming for beginners. Experienced users in my opinion are the best source of info so I hope you guys don't mind all the questions haha
 
xR1pp3Rx said:
I think the key here is to start as low as possible.. even 500 mgs of test might be too much for some.. you may want to pin 250 mgs the first couple weeks.. another first timers option that is truly great is sustanon 250 once every 8-10 days for 12 weeks. either way start small incase your body doesn't like the androgens.. there are people here all the time who freak out in the first week or two and have to quit.. it literally happens all the time.

so be aware not everyone can use them ... everyone is different and lastly, only you can decide what your willing to risk for added muscle mass.
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I’m a fan of this route. 250 to 350 weekly for 12-16 weeks. You’ll get a real good idea how your body reacts. Next cycle bump to 500 or keep it at 250 and add a second compound like primo or an oral kickstart. I’m personally a fan of lower test especially for younger guys.
 
Opinions will vary buuut: 250mg test wont do much. You will get completely shut down for very little gains: 1 to 3 kg extra tissue max. I would not go lower then 500.

Regarding PCT, I would start using nolva and or clomid 1 week after last pin of enth or cyp. So the serm accumulates even before test completely vanishes. You can do both, 50 clomid + 20 nolva, then 25 + 10 last two weeks or just do one at a higher dose or normal lower dose for maybe 6 weeks.

Other compounds and what would be my first cycle if I could do it again? For a bulk I would do a TRT dose of test with 600 EQ for 14 weeks. To much test just makes me horny as hell, no need for that :D But in all honesty, going with test alone is also a good idea bc you can find out exactly how much Ai you need. For instance I need 25m e3d of aromasin with 500mg test. Some need 12.5 ed or even 25mg ed...

If you don't want to pin and want a short cycle, you can do just dbol + clomid + aromasin for 6 weeks. Dbol I would do 20/20/30/30/30/30. Also would do liver value and LH/test lab tests. A small but effective cycle that probably wont suppress you more then 50% and you will recover easily. Lot's of other non pinning options with var or tbol, primo, etc.

My recomendation goes to test 500mg + a non aromatising compound (1-test, tbol, var, winny, LGD4077, etc.). It all depends on how much tissue you want actually. 3 to 5kg? Then just test will do. 5 to 10 kg? Add a 1 or 2 DHT compounds.
 
Just an example for you Dunlop. I am 33 and just ran my first cycle. I am 5'10 and was 192 to start. It was bulking. I ran test 500mg a week for 12 weeks. I ended at 210 lbs. 5 weeks later I am 205 and have been for 2.5 weeks.

Gained a little fat but not terrible. I tried to kickstart with dbol but stopped after first 2 weeks because it killed my appetite.

I was using arimidex .5 mg eod but that was 2 much, .5mg twice a week is what I needed for estrogen control.
 
DemntedCowboy said:
Well I would say you want to start off with a Test only cycle @500 spilt doses twice a week so say 250 Monday morning, 250 Thursday afternoon. You could do this for 12-16 weeks. I prefer Test-E. Make sure to have an AI on hand just incase, and get some Nolva or Clomid for PCT. Then if you wanted you could throw in some Anavar the last 6-8 weeks of the cycle. But, definetly do some research on the compounds I listed. Just so you know what your dealing with before you start.
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Exactly no need for anything else and u might be overtraining 6 days a week to gain size u need rest like train 2 on 1 off
 
Guys thank you all for the advice. Great forum and I’m glad I joined.

I think I’m going to go with the Test-e at 250mg twice a week as it’s my first cycle and I don’t know how I’ll react, I’ll run this for 12 weeks. I’ll have an AI on hand either arimidex or aromasin. Are either ok? Now I know everyone is different but how would I know when I need to take the AI? Only if estrogen like symptoms appear ie Gyno or would I take it weekly? and at what dosages? I know this will likely be dependent on the user. And for my PCT I’ll run Nolva for 4 weeks at 60mg a week after my last test-e dose. I’ll also be taking plenty of multivitamins, fish oil and some liver support just to be on the safe side. Apart from not knowing about when to take the AI and at what dose, do you guys reckon this is a decent first cycle?
 
For 500mg's of test you will need an ai, that is a 95% probability. So I would start dosing it right away. Why would you whait for problems to arise, deliberately harm yourself, and only then take action. With 500mg's of test you will need anywhere from 25mg's of aromasin ed to 12.5 eod. This is my rough estimate that you will fall somewhere in this range. I would start low, 12.5mg eod do bloods to check and then addjust as needed.

Take aromasin, as it an type 1 Ai, which means it doean't only supress estrpgen but kills it's production so to speak. So no rebound e2.

Do not forget about hcg. 250IU eod...
 
Jinsun said:
For 500mg's of test you will need an ai, that is a 95% probability. So I would start dosing it right away. Why would you whait for problems to arise, deliberately harm yourself, and only then take action. With 500mg's of test you will need anywhere from 25mg's of aromasin ed to 12.5 eod. This is my rough estimate that you will fall somewhere in this range. I would start low, 12.5mg eod do bloods to check and then addjust as needed.

Take aromasin, as it an type 1 Ai, which means it doean't only supress estrpgen but kills it's production so to speak. So no rebound e2.

Do not forget about hcg. 250IU eod...
Click to expand...

It makes sense to me to take an AI from day one but I hear so many people saying only take if required. I've been researching for months and the info is conflicting it's a pain in the ass.

The HCG is part of the pct along with Nolva, am I right? Or would you run HCG during cycle?

How do you guys get blood work done so easily.. I'm in the UK and the health service is a bit of a joke. Can I just request it if I tell them I'm running a cycle ?
 
Jamesdunlop said:
It makes sense to me to take an AI from day one but I hear so many people saying only take if required. I've been researching for months and the info is conflicting it's a pain in the ass.

The HCG is part of the pct along with Nolva, am I right? Or would you run HCG during cycle?

How do you guys get blood work done so easily.. I'm in the UK and the health service is a bit of a joke. Can I just request it if I tell them I'm running a cycle ?
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Well I'd say with test e one can start an ai after day 2-3 weeks.. I doubt you'll feel anything before that. It's also quite easy to control gyno so that's really not the point. Some argue whether to crash your estrogen or to not use an ai. Well damn can't we just control the estrogen instead? It doesn't have to be a competition. Between ****ing yourself up or ****ing yourself up in another way. High or low estro sucks, using nolva or clomid will still cause a major flow of estrogen in your body, it's just a lid
blocking it from going in to your boobs etc , do we want any of that? Not really, we want to have as much of a normal estrogen as possible during cycle or off cycle.
 
Chados said:
Well I'd say with test e one can start an ai after day 2-3 weeks.. I doubt you'll feel anything before that. It's also quite easy to control gyno so that's really not the point. Some argue whether to crash your estrogen or to not use an ai. Well damn can't we just control the estrogen instead? It doesn't have to be a competition. Between ****ing yourself up or ****ing yourself up in another way. High or low estro sucks, using nolva or clomid will still cause a major flow of estrogen in your body, it's just a lid
blocking it from going in to your boobs etc , do we want any of that? Not really, we want to have as much of a normal estrogen as possible during cycle or off cycle.
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Exactly. So start with a low moderate dose of an ai and then regulate the dosage according to blood's.

Hcg is during cycle and pre pct. Not for pct as it is suppressive to endogenous LH production (as hcg mimics LH).
 
Jinsun said:
Exactly. So start with a low moderate dose of an ai and then regulate the dosage according to blood's.

Hcg is during cycle and pre pct. Not for pct as it is suppressive to endogenous LH production (as hcg mimics LH).
Click to expand...

True
 
Jamesdunlop said:
It makes sense to me to take an AI from day one but I hear so many people saying only take if required. I've been researching for months and the info is conflicting it's a pain in the ass.

The HCG is part of the pct along with Nolva, am I right? Or would you run HCG during cycle?

How do you guys get blood work done so easily.. I'm in the UK and the health service is a bit of a joke. Can I just request it if I tell them I'm running a cycle ?
Click to expand...

I’m also in the uk bro, I’ve used medichecks a number of times - if you get the kit when it’s on offer you can pay approx £60-70 for hormone tests (annoyingly they used to do a general fitness test that had all lipids etc plus hormone stuff but no longer does).

I’m running test for the first time at the moment (I’ve run td trest before though so was aware that I don’t appear to be heavily gyno prone) and have started adex at 0.5 e3d at the start of week 3. Also running hcg at 500 a week (split into 2 doses) throughout cycle.
 
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