TRT doc being weird

Brain5ick

Well-known member
So my doctor put me on Androgel today and even though it wasn’t my preferred way of doing this I didn’t make a fuss. I was told to check with my insurance (I have great insurance) to make sure it was covered and to check the prices. I was told Androgel was $158 for a 30 day supply! The other gel covered by my insurance was $182! Patches are out of the question at $300 for 90 days.
My doc was being very adamant about me doing some sort of topical test (even though I live with my girlfriend) but test cyp 200mg is only $1.12 for 30 days and $12 for 90. Fully covered by my insurance. I called to have him change my script to cyp so I can actually afford to do this but why is he so set on giving me topicals? Makes no sense. He also said I shouldn’t need an AI with TRT, I’m guessing that if estrogen sides occur he will intervene with an AI then but this is my whole dilemma. The AI and the gels. Are doctors just afraid of needles for this now? I told him I don’t mind the shot, my goal here is just to feel better.
 
Brain5ick said:
So my doctor put me on Androgel today and even though it wasn’t my preferred way of doing this I didn’t make a fuss. I was told to check with my insurance (I have great insurance) to make sure it was covered and to check the prices. I was told Androgel was $158 for a 30 day supply! The other gel covered by my insurance was $182! Patches are out of the question at $300 for 90 days.
My doc was being very adamant about me doing some sort of topical test (even though I live with my girlfriend) but test cyp 200mg is only $1.12 for 30 days and $12 for 90. Fully covered by my insurance. I called to have him change my script to cyp so I can actually afford to do this but why is he so set on giving me topicals? Makes no sense. He also said I shouldn’t need an AI with TRT, I’m guessing that if estrogen sides occur he will intervene with an AI then but this is my whole dilemma. The AI and the gels. Are doctors just afraid of needles for this now? I told him I don’t mind the shot, my goal here is just to feel better.
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Might wanna look at his background does he have a bunch of androgel ads/signs in his office. He may get a cut from the rep for the scripts he writes for it.
 
DemntedCowboy said:
Might wanna look at his background does he have a bunch of androgel ads/signs in his office. He may get a cut from the rep for the scripts he writes for it.
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He did not have anything like that. He was perfectly fine with writing other brands topicals but hesitant on injections.
 
Brain5ick said:
He did not have anything like that. He was perfectly fine with writing other brands topicals but hesitant on injections.
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Well, thats good. Maybe he's just afraid of injections. Or likes to make sure his patients aren't just looking for legal steroids. He may want to see how you do on the gel, and then after test move to injections after if the gel isn't working.
 
I feel like this is fairly common. I had my dad ask his doctor about trt and they told him they needed to run his levels first. He came back half of what a man his age should he so the doctor proscribed him gel. I told him to ask for injections and the doctor told him gel was better.
 
I had a friend selling gel out of the back of his truck. **** sucked and was expensive. He wanted almost $100 a bottle.
 
That's actually why I pay for trt through an anti aging clinic. My normal doctor didn't really know that much about trt, most primary care doctors don't know much about it. So I pay 120 bucks a month for it, which sucks but I have more control
Over it, the doctor is open, and I can get bloods Anytime I want as well.
 
Same reason dr’s push chemo even though it’s been proven to be largely ineffective: the drug companies pay them to push it.
 
I wouldn’t have an issue trying the gel but man, even the generic is around $100... He specializes in HRT and was very quick to listen to me and help me which was awesome though.
 
Trt docs/places tend to be money-hungry. The gel could be something that they make money on, just like dementedcowboy said. The clinic I went to was always trying to push me to try stuff from their compounding pharma, which was overpriced as hell.
 
Brain5ick said:
I wouldn’t have an issue trying the gel but man, even the generic is around $100... He specializes in HRT and was very quick to listen to me and help me which was awesome though.
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Do you have your bloodwork? Have you looked into Entourage Medical here. They are a board Sponsored TRT Clinic
 
general practitioners don't like the liability associated with self injections and usually TRT patients do not want to come in every week or twice a week for shots. Also, they know there's a much higher risk of stroke and other health related issues with injections vs. gels. Injections, at least for a lot of the population, will raise hermatocrit to unsafe levels.
 
Find a new doctor. Gotta believe he either is ignorant or simply doesn't give a $h!t about anything but his pockets or liability. Might be few and far between, but there ARE some real healing docs out there that want to help you.
 
Enterouge i wouldnt imagine having an issue with your age if your levels are low. I was 28 when i got on with them and they didnt think twice when they saw my levels
 
christ83189 said:
Enterouge i wouldnt imagine having an issue with your age if your levels are low. I was 28 when i got on with them and they didnt think twice when they saw my levels
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If I am blasting and cruising, how would that work with Entourage? I hate my TRT doc, he sounds just like the OPs doc. After my current cycle, I plan on buying test in bulk and just cruising instead of using my Androgel. Would Entourage still work with me? I do have blood work on my Androgel dose, without any other anabolics.
 
AntM1564 said:
If I am blasting and cruising, how would that work with Entourage? I hate my TRT doc, he sounds just like the OPs doc. After my current cycle, I plan on buying test in bulk and just cruising instead of using my Androgel. Would Entourage still work with me? I do have blood work on my Androgel dose, without any other anabolics.
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I would think you could do this without informing them then you wouldn’t even have to worry about how they would react. If they were ok with it I doubt any of their reps would publicly say that on a public Internet forum! Medical boards may not look to foundly on that.
 
AntM1564 said:
If I am blasting and cruising, how would that work with Entourage? I hate my TRT doc, he sounds just like the OPs doc. After my current cycle, I plan on buying test in bulk and just cruising instead of using my Androgel. Would Entourage still work with me? I do have blood work on my Androgel dose, without any other anabolics.
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Yeah you dont want to inform them of that i dont think
 
JoePaul39 said:
I would think you could do this without informing them then you wouldn’t even have to worry about how they would react. If they were ok with it I doubt any of their reps would publicly say that on a public Internet forum! Medical boards may not look to foundly on that.
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Yeah ive seen kenpoengineer say on here that they do not condone anabolic use and that they were a medical clinic dealing with testosterone replacement not steroids. So id say just cycle off for required bloodwork (every 4 months)
 
So I’ve spoke with my doc today and come up with a new plan. He WILL start me on Test Cyp but he wanted me to come in once a week for 4 weeks for my shot so he could “educate” me on how to administer them myself. After 4 weeks I’d get a script and do my own shots. Problem is I go to the beach for a week in about 2 1/2-3 weeks so me and him both don’t want me missing a shot due to my vacation. It’s going to be costly for this but he wants me to run the Androgel now and after my vacation we will switch to the injections. I believe it’ll be 100-150mg every week.
Androgel he has me On is dosed at 40mg per day (two pumps). How would you guys say that is for the gel? I’ve heard of guys not getting enough so basically all they end up doing is absorbing enough to suppress themselves. That part kinda bugs me. Otherwise I think this is a solid plan. He said I should be more level and used to the medication by the time I come back that shots should be a smooth transition.
 
Brain5ick said:
So I’ve spoke with my doc today and come up with a new plan. He WILL start me on Test Cyp but he wanted me to come in once a week for 4 weeks for my shot so he could “educate” me on how to administer them myself. After 4 weeks I’d get a script and do my own shots. Problem is I go to the beach for a week in about 2 1/2-3 weeks so me and him both don’t want me missing a shot due to my vacation. It’s going to be costly for this but he wants me to run the Androgel now and after my vacation we will switch to the injections. I believe it’ll be 100-150mg every week.
Androgel he has me On is dosed at 40mg per day (two pumps). How would you guys say that is for the gel? I’ve heard of guys not getting enough so basically all they end up doing is absorbing enough to suppress themselves. That part kinda bugs me. Otherwise I think this is a solid plan. He said I should be more level and used to the medication by the time I come back that shots should be a smooth transition.
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the gel sucks but not bc you can't get a decent amount of test through a td. Its the carrier they use. They suck. I have a liquid suspension w some dmso in the mix of test prop I use for cruising and 100mg/day (1 ml liquid) puts me between 7-800 ng/dl which for me is ideal.

A good carrier will yield 30-35% of mg applied. A poor one Will get you less.
 
JoePaul39 said:
I would think you could do this without informing them then you wouldn’t even have to worry about how they would react. If they were ok with it I doubt any of their reps would publicly say that on a public Internet forum! Medical boards may not look to foundly on that.
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christ83189 said:
Yeah you dont want to inform them of that i dont think
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But if I am cruising on test, I would assume my levels would be higher than going back on my Androgel. So then the levels they see aren't my levels are my current TRT protocol and then their dosage/prescription would be low. Does that make sense?
 
Godstrength said:
the gel sucks but not bc you can't get a decent amount of test through a td. Its the carrier they use. They suck. I have a liquid suspension w some dmso in the mix of test prop I use for cruising and 100mg/day (1 ml liquid) puts me between 7-800 ng/dl which for me is ideal.

A good carrier will yield 30-35% of mg applied. A poor one Will get you less.
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I respect a lot of what you've got to say Godstrength...but do you know that to be true? I've never heard anything good about the gel, I get that. But are you saying our favorite supp companies have better technology/ better carriers than the pharm company is willing to invest in? That blows my mind - I know most pharm companies are dirt but that's just downright laziness!
 
bigbeaph said:
I respect a lot of what you've got to say Godstrength...but do you know that to be true? I've never heard anything good about the gel, I get that. But are you saying our favorite supp companies have better technology/ better carriers than the pharm company is willing to invest in? That blows my mind - I know most pharm companies are dirt but that's just downright laziness!
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Absorption can vary between individuals who apply transdermal testosterone to the skin. The standard measurement of predicted absorption used by compounding pharmacists is at 10%. Roughly 10% of the total dosage of topically applied hormone will penetrate the skin. This means that for every 100mg of testosterone applied only 10mg will actually be absorbed through the skin. Depending on the individual sometimes less is absorbed, therefore it is important to follow up with laboratory testing so that the testosterone dose might be titrated to maximize transdermal absorption.

Men require a daily supply of 7mg-10mg of testosterone to achieve a physiological level in the upper-quartile and to reverse the symptoms of hypogonadism. Using compounded transdermal testosterone appears to be more effective than brand name (manufactured) transdermal testosterone products (Androgel, Testim, etc) for a few reasons. Higher concentrations of testosterone can be achieved in a compounded transdermal. Common strengths found in compounded topical testosterone products range between 5%-20% testosterone. 5% equals a 50mg/ml concentration of testosterone; 7% equals 70mg/ml; 10% equals 100mg/ml; etc. The highest concentration available for most transdermal hormone creams and gels is 20%, or 200mg/ml. More than 20% concentration may result in poor distribution of the testosterone, ‘clumping’ of the ingredients, and reduced absorption of the medication. Most male patients respond best to dosages between 5%-20% applied topically to reach 5mg-10mg absorption.*

Copy and pasted^^^

So according to this 10% is standard for gel or creams. So if hes taking 40mg/day thats translates to 4mg getting through the dermis. Over 7 days that's 28mg of test! If he we're to do 100mg/day he's getting a total of 70mg for the week. Their carriers are lousy. This quote is from a medical reference to testosterone transdermal and efficacy of pharmacies transdermal carriers. It's junk.

I'm on 100/day of prop w dmso and my levels have been close to 900 at times and hovers between 7-800. Dmso actually opens the pores of the skin allowing more of the molecule to pass or be shuttled through. No way you would get that with 70mg/week. That number is closer to true trt test shots of 150-200/week. Thats why people say transdermal sucks for trt. Yes if you're getting it from a doc or pharmacy it does. 1 their carriers suck and 2 they prescribe a ridiculously low amount of the gel or cream to be used td.

These pharmaceutical companies and even compounding pharmacies know their absorption rate is 10% standard. Like I said a good td carrier can easily yield 30% through td application. These dont cone from the pharmacy obviously.
 
Godstrength said:
Absorption can vary between individuals who apply transdermal testosterone to the skin. The standard measurement of predicted absorption used by compounding pharmacists is at 10%. Roughly 10% of the total dosage of topically applied hormone will penetrate the skin. This means that for every 100mg of testosterone applied only 10mg will actually be absorbed through the skin. Depending on the individual sometimes less is absorbed, therefore it is important to follow up with laboratory testing so that the testosterone dose might be titrated to maximize transdermal absorption.

Men require a daily supply of 7mg-10mg of testosterone to achieve a physiological level in the upper-quartile and to reverse the symptoms of hypogonadism. Using compounded transdermal testosterone appears to be more effective than brand name (manufactured) transdermal testosterone products (Androgel, Testim, etc) for a few reasons. Higher concentrations of testosterone can be achieved in a compounded transdermal. Common strengths found in compounded topical testosterone products range between 5%-20% testosterone. 5% equals a 50mg/ml concentration of testosterone; 7% equals 70mg/ml; 10% equals 100mg/ml; etc. The highest concentration available for most transdermal hormone creams and gels is 20%, or 200mg/ml. More than 20% concentration may result in poor distribution of the testosterone, ‘clumping’ of the ingredients, and reduced absorption of the medication. Most male patients respond best to dosages between 5%-20% applied topically to reach 5mg-10mg absorption.*

Copy and pasted^^^

So according to this 10% is standard for gel or creams. So if hes taking 40mg/day thats translates to 4mg getting through the dermis. Over 7 days that's 28mg of test! If he we're to do 100mg/day he's getting a total of 70mg for the week. Their carriers are lousy. This quote is from a medical reference to testosterone transdermal and efficacy of pharmacies transdermal carriers. It's junk.

I'm on 100/day of prop w dmso and my levels have been close to 900 at times and hovers between 7-800. Dmso actually opens the pores of the skin allowing more of the molecule to pass or be shuttled through. No way you would get that with 70mg/week. That number is closer to true trt test shots of 150-200/week. Thats why people say transdermal sucks for trt. Yes if you're getting it from a doc or pharmacy it does. 1 their carriers suck and 2 they prescribe a ridiculously low amount of the gel or cream to be used td.

These pharmaceutical companies and even compounding pharmacies know their absorption rate is 10% standard. Like I said a good td carrier can easily yield 30% through td application. These dont cone from the pharmacy obviously.
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Awesome! Thanks for the info brotha. That idea had never crossed my mind. I've read all about dmso and had nothing but stellar results from running td's with dmso. I just assumed the drug companies would be using something with the same sort of results....crazy in my book.
 
bigbeaph said:
Awesome! Thanks for the info brotha. That idea had never crossed my mind. I've read all about dmso and had nothing but stellar results from running td's with dmso. I just assumed the drug companies would be using something with the same sort of results....crazy in my book.
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Maybe the pharma companies intentionally use Gels with poor absorption so people have to buy more to get decent test levels.
 
JoePaul39 said:
Maybe the pharma companies intentionally use Gels with poor absorption so people have to buy more to get decent test levels.
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Honestly I think it is just outdated pharmacology. That's how they started doing it as an alternative to needles for true trt. Which you can see by the extremely small amount of test being absorbed is really not all that helpful. Also they use the same method for women as well which ensures there not going to get too much. I also think the doctors really arent knowledgeable about this stuff. For instance how much actual testosterone you would be getting in your system vs injections. As you can see 280mg/week of td is going to be night and day difference to say 200mg/week of injection. Most probably dont even really know there is only a 10% absorption rate.
 
Far too many Docs looking out for their own interests over the patients. Any time they hesitate to do something, it’s almost certainly because of an increased liability or it doesn’t somehow benefit them.
 
AntM1564 said:
But if I am cruising on test, I would assume my levels would be higher than going back on my Androgel. So then the levels they see aren't my levels are my current TRT protocol and then their dosage/prescription would be low. Does that make sense?
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If you're worried about that just let your levels drop before getting bloods done. Im pretty sure entourage just starts at 200mg though i dont think they go lower than that
 
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