RickyBlobby
Well-known member
If someone has a source for lantus, please feel free to PM me
Insulin Q and A
- Thread starter Matthersby
- Start date
Matthersby
Well-known member
Matthersby
Well-known member
Since you and RickyB know your peptides, what is the best one closest to GH to keep bodyfat off? CJC w/o DAC and GHRP 2? You guys know this stuff better than I. Peptide Newb.
rtmilburn
Well-known member
Cjc w/o dac is not optimal imo. Use cjc dac with ipam. Great combo. Or even cjc with mk.
Cgkone
Well-known member
Cjc with DAC and mk677 all day.
You'd be surprised at what that combo can do.
That's my vote at least.
5 mg DAC a week and 25 mg mk677 a day
Cgkone
Well-known member
ghrp-2 makes me way hungry right away. ghrp-6 is even worse. at first i didn't like the idea of DAC or of GH bleed. but after info from several people on this forum i ventured into the DAC / MK combo and was pleased. 10mg a week is even better but at that point buying generic GH cost the same. i also believed at one time that generic GH was all garbage, that's just not true either. maybe at one point it was true but IME generic GH works and is pretty affordable.......if you can afford it.
Matthersby
Well-known member
This is gonna be such a fun fall 2018. I’m going to bulk for the next year straight.
That doesn’t even seem like an overly expensive route either.
Who do you get your cjc from? PM if necessary.
Matthersby
Well-known member
MK I’ve been wanting to start running since early this year. May as well start when I start Lantus next month.
adammorrow36
Member
Ok i just found this thread. Last friday i started lantus after reading another yhread and was intreaged my current bulk cyclr of test and nandrolone cypionate had leveled out still barely above 205 so i jumped on at 10 units split 65% am 35% pm and today im up yo 18 and i will say it really is all that !!!! I can literaly see myself grow and feel ive put on a few pounds already. The pumps are unreal and last forever but yes eat a lot !!! 2 days aggo i didnt eat fast enuf after workout and got the shakes but ik what it was and ate fast. I also am doing big carb and protein shake pre and intra wo is a must.
Lynks8
Well-known member
What about for someone who's never touched anything hormonal or gh/peptide related?....I'm wondering why exogenous insulin isn't more popular with "natties"...or maybe it is and I'm just unaware?
It sounds like exactly what I've been looking for: something to help me push past plateaus and get bigger without risking hair loss and/or damaging my hpta.
I always thought of slin as something only hardcore ifbb types used, but I can't seem to find any downsides other than risk of going hypo (easily avoided if you're smart) and potential fat gain.
What am I missing?
Tempted to start with 4iu next week.
It sounds like exactly what I've been looking for: something to help me push past plateaus and get bigger without risking hair loss and/or damaging my hpta.
I always thought of slin as something only hardcore ifbb types used, but I can't seem to find any downsides other than risk of going hypo (easily avoided if you're smart) and potential fat gain.
What am I missing?
Tempted to start with 4iu next week.
Newth
Well-known member
The pulsing oral idea is what got me thinking how to use it.
I work big hours through the week so fast acting pre-workout with 2x 5x5 mid-week and 1x upper and lower isolation split-workout day with Lantus on the weekend.
This is just random thinking but I can see it being the best to keep hours on to a min with max effect, maybe not also.
I'm thinking Lantus could be a bitch to source in Aus though.
Matthersby
Well-known member
I think other than the stress of eating when you aren’t hungry and also lugging around gummies and dextrose, you’ll get a lot out of it for that purpose. It puts more muscle on faster than anything I’ve ever used.
Newth
Well-known member
I was interested in slin years ago but never used it before stopping lifting.
I think GH has taken the focus now but everyone I have talked to about slin over the years always talked well of it.
RickyBlobby
Well-known member
CJC-DAC/ IPAM (3x daily)..... But GHRP 2 is a lot cheaper and basically does the same thing as IPAM
I bet CJC-DAC and MK would be a good combo too, but I doubt there would be close to the same synergy as with the GHRP
RickyBlobby
Well-known member
Slin/ GHRP's would be a potent stack that wouldn't mess up your HTPA. Hell even a mild oral steroid like anavar alongside a SERM like torem would make a good addition to Slin and GHRP. With minimal HTPA damage.
Matthersby
Well-known member
I just want to say, the amount of good information that this thread is producing, from some really responsible and intelligent men on this forum, is as always cool to see.
Take insulin seriously though, please.
When it comes down to it, we are risking death for more muscles.
Take insulin seriously though, please.
When it comes down to it, we are risking death for more muscles.
TRIGUY
New member
Abstract
Des(1–3)IGF-I, a truncated variant of human IGF-I with the tripeptide Gly-Pro-Glu absent from the N-terminus, has been isolated from bovine colostrum, human brain and porcine uterus. This protein probably results from post-translational cleavage of IGF-I. Des(1–3)IGF-I generally is about 10-fold more potent than IGF-I at stimulating hypertrophy and proliferation of cultured cells, a consequence of much reduced binding to IGF-binding proteins, in turn caused by the absence of the glutamate at position 3. The increased potency is retained in part when the variant is administered in vivo, with selective anabolic effects particularly evident in gut tissues. Clinical opportunities for des(1–3)IGF-I have not yet been evaluated, but could apply in catabolic states as well as for the treatment of inflammatory bowel diseases.
Invalid Link Removed
in wikipedia the "route of administration " was ONLY Intravenous. ......hhmmmmm
Des(1–3)IGF-I, a truncated variant of human IGF-I with the tripeptide Gly-Pro-Glu absent from the N-terminus, has been isolated from bovine colostrum, human brain and porcine uterus. This protein probably results from post-translational cleavage of IGF-I. Des(1–3)IGF-I generally is about 10-fold more potent than IGF-I at stimulating hypertrophy and proliferation of cultured cells, a consequence of much reduced binding to IGF-binding proteins, in turn caused by the absence of the glutamate at position 3. The increased potency is retained in part when the variant is administered in vivo, with selective anabolic effects particularly evident in gut tissues. Clinical opportunities for des(1–3)IGF-I have not yet been evaluated, but could apply in catabolic states as well as for the treatment of inflammatory bowel diseases.
Invalid Link Removed
in wikipedia the "route of administration " was ONLY Intravenous. ......hhmmmmm
Last edited:
Cgkone
Well-known member
I think mike Arnold said DAC/mk is the best combo you can use to elevate your natural production. MK 677 is basically GHRP.
Also IPAM and GHRP-2 is about the same price. Just when I've used IPAM I've been told to boom dose before bed. GHRP-2 is all day. MK677 is obviously once but you get pulses all day.
Maybe I'm mistaken but this is how I understand it. MK/DAC will get you the most GH. The higher the DAC the better.
Newth
Well-known member
IPAM I have no idea but MK/DAC seems to be the most cost effective way for GH at realistic lower doses from what I can gather.
Matthersby
Well-known member
So, since I’ll be cycling 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off, I decided to start Lantus today. Just 10iu’s @7am. I like the idea of pinning it only once a day early am. I want it on the downslope when I go to bed, I don’t want any overlap with multiple injections, and I want to be alert during its more active window: 1-9hour mark. I’ve heard various rumors that is has a small peak somewhere during this time. The first two weeks I don’t plan on going over 20iu’s a day.
I decided I will monitor bf increase and simply add MK-677 during Lantus blasts and potentially straight through the winter if I find it affordable enough.
I’m ordering my NPP today. And if labs are straight, will finish Trest off and go straight into Dbol and NPP blast. I’m hoping to put on a substantial amount of weight by Christmas with Lantus on board half of every month. Hoping to see some hunger increase which I feel more hungry than usual right now 2 hours post injection. Probably starting a log of what hopefully is an insane bulk.
I decided I will monitor bf increase and simply add MK-677 during Lantus blasts and potentially straight through the winter if I find it affordable enough.
I’m ordering my NPP today. And if labs are straight, will finish Trest off and go straight into Dbol and NPP blast. I’m hoping to put on a substantial amount of weight by Christmas with Lantus on board half of every month. Hoping to see some hunger increase which I feel more hungry than usual right now 2 hours post injection. Probably starting a log of what hopefully is an insane bulk.
swimfan65
Well-known member
All sounds pretty on point. I would have done test deca...but that's just me. Eat your carbs! Will be following this one
Matthersby
Well-known member
Test is constant year round for me 200/week - 300 tops. I just love Dbol for its feel good and temporary but rapid weight gain. I want to see if I can put on 45 lbs by Christmas. I’d be thrilled to keep 30 of it.
swimfan65
Well-known member
Test is constant year round for me 200/week - 300 tops. I just love Dbol for its feel good and temporary but rapid weight gain. I want to see if I can put on 45 lbs by Christmas. I’d be thrilled to keep 30 of it.
You would probably get less water with Anadrol. I'm always on too. I've ran Androl 50 ed for months with no increase in enzemyes. Dbol makes me hold water more. That's just me though.
Matthersby
Well-known member
Same here, the water ends up making my face bloated too. But I can keep it to a minimum with sodium etc. I’m probably gonna run Adrol also late November.
TRIGUY
New member
AFREZZA!! just came in!! FOUND A RELIABLE SOURCE.
best way to use?
Hypothetical suituation.
Max hypertrophy
Min dosages
TEST/TREN/ ANAVAR
exemestane
hcg/clomid EOD
GH 2i.u's
tresiba 3i.u.s
afreeza?????? before & after wo meals? only 1 time? how many units? do I use a glucometer to see how many units I need?
(think I answered my own question). lol. I should just use a gluometer after my morning / pre-workout meal.
best way to use?
Hypothetical suituation.
Max hypertrophy
Min dosages
TEST/TREN/ ANAVAR
exemestane
hcg/clomid EOD
GH 2i.u's
tresiba 3i.u.s
afreeza?????? before & after wo meals? only 1 time? how many units? do I use a glucometer to see how many units I need?
(think I answered my own question). lol. I should just use a gluometer after my morning / pre-workout meal.
swimfan65
Well-known member
Stats, goals, etc
swimfan65
Well-known member
What division do you want to , compete in? With your height, 260 to 270 on stage for open at 5 percent to be competitive. Also, how are you walking around at 5 percent? Unless you just did a show in the last few days. If you want to compete in open, you will need to be much bigger to be competitive at 5'11. But you said you want to win. So you are looking at 300 or so in the off season. Putting on 100 pounds of muscle in two years is impossible...I don't care how much drugs you take. And you are to tall to compete in the 215, or whatever it is, class.
swimfan65
Well-known member
Test 500 a week, deca 400, Dbol kick start for 6 weeks. Novalin R work out days pre work out...study that part. And the growth 5ius a day...eat like a machine...clean, 4 to 5k a day in cals..at 40, 40, 20. Get as much muscle on your frame as possible. Them use the Tren, Test, Anavar, I'd add t3 and clen to cut.down to 5 percent again and see where you are at.
rtmilburn
Well-known member
IDK about that if this person has never used any gear before 100 pounds in 2 years is achievable. Insanely hard to do but possible if genetics, diet, training, and gear are spot on. If he's used gear before I would have to agree with you.
Hyde
Legend
He said he’s 5% - if true, I’d assume he’s used and recently.
Kudos on getting so damn lean btw. Many will never accomplish that!
rtmilburn
Well-known member
Ahh I missed that. And I agree 5% is impressive
TRIGUY
New member
Where my genetics shine is I can get "Andreas Munzer" style shredded!! Its the muscle gains that have eluded me in the past!
But given what we are seeing over in KUWAIT, I guess its just a matter of how much GH I can afford!!! LOLOL
Newth
Well-known member
Matthersby
If you were to use a fast acting like Humalog pre/post-workout while on-cycle trying not to add fat, would you include any of the macros from the shakes in your diet or add them on top?
If you were to use a fast acting like Humalog pre/post-workout while on-cycle trying not to add fat, would you include any of the macros from the shakes in your diet or add them on top?
swimfan65
Well-known member
1st, you gonna add fat using insulin. Add in top to be safe. Using fast acting while trying to eat lower carbs is a good way to die.
Matthersby
Well-known member
This is where it gets tricky. And I’m going to need some time to research this as the nutrient partitioning abilities of insulin are multi-faceted, and complicated.
My first instinct is that macro-counting during that window won’t matter. It’s shuttled differently, glycemic index is insignificant, and more importantly your life is dependent on carb intake during that window. Let me see what I can find, but I’m thinking it takes years to learn to diet while using insulin, years of careful practice, so its initial use should be that of putting size on. Worry about dieting later.
swimfan65
Well-known member
Very good self advice. Use it and eat your ass off.
Matthersby
Well-known member
I don’t think I’d ever use it while cutting. Too risky, too difficult to dial in. Seems like dry aas, and some clen/t3 do the job fantastic enough as it is and low risk.
swimfan65
Well-known member
Once again correct my friend.
Matthersby
Well-known member
Glad you’re here, Swim. Can you Tell me about diet when you get a minute?. I want to go from 223 to 270 by January. I’ve stopped going bonkers on my protein intake since I know I’ll hit 300 grams a day not even trying to. Just in peanut butter I’m getting 100 grams alone so I’m stressing overall cals more. I only eat Whole Foods and supplement protein between meals with protein bars. And I use the highest calorie ones possible. Eating a lot more fat, reconsidering my sugar intake and focusing on good carbs but I’m not shying away from gummy worms and other stuff here and there. I think I’m hovering around 5500-6k calories right now, and that number will go up every month that I put on weight.
Any tips?
adammorrow36
Member
Clear ur inbox
swimfan65
Well-known member
That is a very realistic goal. Calories look good..you are just going to have to be ok with some fat gain. You can worry about that later though. On the Lantus, fat consumed will likely result in fat stored. So stick to low fat foods. But, honsetly, it sounds like you are on the right track. Remember 20 units of Lantus, is like 5 of humalog. There is no real spike, I know guys running 50 to 70 a day. However, don't just shoot that much tomorrow, build yourself up.
Newth
Well-known member
That's what I was thinking.
I understand the carb thing very well, I was just curious if the cals should be lowered either side of the slin being active to help lower fat gain.
Definitely not going to take stupid risks with it.
fueledpassion
Well-known member
I haven't read through all the posts, so excuse me if I say something redundant. Also, I'm 99% certain I have spoken at length about insulin use before so for those truly interested in hearing more, do a search for all my posts on it. In fact, I might copy/paste a few in here later...assuming I still agree with my past self (which is unlikely - I'm always correcting my former self). I'd take anything I said with a grain of salt prior to about 2016/17, though.
My recommendation is to control insulin for maximal gains. Avoid anything over 5 iu/dose. Sounds crazy but let me explain. Indeed, there are anabolic benefits of larger doses of insulin when in the presence of amino acids, particularly Leucine. But that doesn't mean this is what we should aim for with insulin use.
Insulin use is great for:
1) High carb, high calorie diets that reduce insulin sensitivity
2) Programs that call for moderate to high GH or MK-677 use, which causes insulin resistance
Rule of thumb for taking T4/Lantus combo is @ 2iu/75lbs of lean mass. So if you have 200lbs of lean mass, you'd be in the 5iu/day range. That's enough to elevate your BG levels chronically (if you are using a high quality GH). Bodybuilders would do well to use insulin in the same exact way that a diabetic uses it, which is at every meal and for the purpose of controlling BG levels. If you get really good at it, you can have your BG levels down to about 90-100 every 2-2.5hrs after each meal. Doing this guarantees no fat gain. NONE. ZILCH. NADDA.
Generally speaking, I follow this guideline and boy does it work well.
***Don't fit your diet around your insulin use, rather, fit your insulin use around you dietary needs***
The biggest problem with trying to get "anabolic" activity from insulin by taking so much at one time is that you potentially have to abandon your actual dietary needs in order to not have a BG crash afterwards. I've seen so many people go into their insulin cycle with the mindset of taking a certain dose and adjusting their diet to that dose. It isn't optimal.
What you ought to do is exclude insulin from your diet planning altogether. The name of the game is line your diet up and then apply 1iu per 20g of carbs. That's it. Don't say: "I'm going to take 5iu per meal" or "10iu per meal" and adjust your carb intake to it. You'll get fat, but why? Well because you're eating 100-200g of carbs each meal! Duh!
What you are after is getting your BG down even quicker than your already-honed-in-diet would do naturally. So if we drew an insulin curve over time, we'd see that the average BG level would be significantly lower w/ insulin use - or another way to look at it is the integral of the slope (area) of the curve would be less than the model without insulin. But we're getting into Calculus now
so I digress.
When you lower the area under the curve, you increase insulin sensitivity and glucagon secretion, the latter being the antithesis of insulin - as in this hormone is responsible for signaling fatty acid breakdown to raise BG to a sustainable level (not a precise definition of the term). Have I lost anyone yet? I don't want to lose anyone with this thought. (Modafinil is really blazing strong!)
I'll standby for criticisms, comments & questions...
My recommendation is to control insulin for maximal gains. Avoid anything over 5 iu/dose. Sounds crazy but let me explain. Indeed, there are anabolic benefits of larger doses of insulin when in the presence of amino acids, particularly Leucine. But that doesn't mean this is what we should aim for with insulin use.
Insulin use is great for:
1) High carb, high calorie diets that reduce insulin sensitivity
2) Programs that call for moderate to high GH or MK-677 use, which causes insulin resistance
Rule of thumb for taking T4/Lantus combo is @ 2iu/75lbs of lean mass. So if you have 200lbs of lean mass, you'd be in the 5iu/day range. That's enough to elevate your BG levels chronically (if you are using a high quality GH). Bodybuilders would do well to use insulin in the same exact way that a diabetic uses it, which is at every meal and for the purpose of controlling BG levels. If you get really good at it, you can have your BG levels down to about 90-100 every 2-2.5hrs after each meal. Doing this guarantees no fat gain. NONE. ZILCH. NADDA.
Generally speaking, I follow this guideline and boy does it work well.
***Don't fit your diet around your insulin use, rather, fit your insulin use around you dietary needs***
The biggest problem with trying to get "anabolic" activity from insulin by taking so much at one time is that you potentially have to abandon your actual dietary needs in order to not have a BG crash afterwards. I've seen so many people go into their insulin cycle with the mindset of taking a certain dose and adjusting their diet to that dose. It isn't optimal.
What you ought to do is exclude insulin from your diet planning altogether. The name of the game is line your diet up and then apply 1iu per 20g of carbs. That's it. Don't say: "I'm going to take 5iu per meal" or "10iu per meal" and adjust your carb intake to it. You'll get fat, but why? Well because you're eating 100-200g of carbs each meal! Duh!
What you are after is getting your BG down even quicker than your already-honed-in-diet would do naturally. So if we drew an insulin curve over time, we'd see that the average BG level would be significantly lower w/ insulin use - or another way to look at it is the integral of the slope (area) of the curve would be less than the model without insulin. But we're getting into Calculus now
so I digress. When you lower the area under the curve, you increase insulin sensitivity and glucagon secretion, the latter being the antithesis of insulin - as in this hormone is responsible for signaling fatty acid breakdown to raise BG to a sustainable level (not a precise definition of the term). Have I lost anyone yet? I don't want to lose anyone with this thought. (Modafinil is really blazing strong!)
I'll standby for criticisms, comments & questions...
Matthersby
Well-known member
I haven't read through all the posts, so excuse me if I say something redundant. Also, I'm 99% certain I have spoken at length about insulin use before so for those truly interested in hearing more, do a search for all my posts on it. In fact, I might copy/paste a few in here later...assuming I still agree with my past self (which is unlikely - I'm always correcting my former self). I'd take anything I said with a grain of salt prior to about 2016/17, though.
My recommendation is to control insulin for maximal gains. Avoid anything over 5 iu/dose. Sounds crazy but let me explain. Indeed, there are anabolic benefits of larger doses of insulin when in the presence of amino acids, particularly Leucine. But that doesn't mean this is what we should aim for with insulin use.
Insulin use is great for:
1) High carb, high calorie diets that reduce insulin sensitivity
2) Programs that call for moderate to high GH or MK-677 use, which causes insulin resistance
Rule of thumb for taking T4/Lantus combo is @ 2iu/75lbs of lean mass. So if you have 200lbs of lean mass, you'd be in the 5iu/day range. That's enough to elevate your BG levels chronically (if you are using a high quality GH). Bodybuilders would do well to use insulin in the same exact way the a diabetic uses it, which is at every meal and for the purpose of controlling BG levels. If you get really good at it, you can have your BG levels down to about 90-100 every 2-2.5hrs after each meal. Doing this guarantees no fat gain. NONE. ZILCH. NADDA.
Generally speaking, I follow this guideline and boy does it work well.
***Don't fit your diet around your insulin use, rather, fit your insulin use around you dietary needs***
The biggest problem with trying to get "anabolic" activity from insulin by taking so much at one time is that you potentially have to abandon your actual dietary needs in order to not have a BG crash afterwards. I've seen so many people go into their insulin cycle with the mindset of taking a certain dose and adjusting their diet to that dose. It isn't optimal.
What you ought to do is exclude insulin from your diet planning altogether. The name of the game is line your diet up and then apply 1iu per 20g of carbs. That's it. Don't say: "I'm going to take 5iu per meal" or "10iu per meal" and adjust your carb intake to it. You'll get fat, but why? Well because you're eating 100-200g of carbs each meal! Duh!
What you are after is getting your BG down even quicker than your already-honed-in-diet would do naturally. So if we drew an insulin curve over time, we'd see that the average BG level would be significantly lower w/ insulin use - or another way to look at it is the integral of the slope (area) of the curve would be less than the model without insulin. But we're getting into Calculus now
When you lower the area under the curve, you increase insulin sensitivity and glucagon secretion, the latter being the antithesis of insulin - as in this hormone is responsible for signaling fatty acid breakdown to raise BG to a sustainable level (not a precise definition of the term). Have I lost anyone yet? I don't want to lose anyone with this thought. (Modafinil is really blazing strong!)
I'll standby for criticisms, comments & questions...
Fantastic information, as usual FP. Thanks for adding a whole different level of research and application of insulin in this thread... Good stuff here^^