Whisky's first stabbing cycle plan

Whisky

Whisky

Well-known member
Hey all,

Excited to start my first 'proper' cycle with the pins in 3 weeks. Im away abroad for the next two hence me setting out the hopefully final plan now (so i have time for adjustments).

Your comment and critique welcomed

Background

36 yr old, 202lbs, bf 11%, 6'2, lifting 4 years

Ran 2 cycles before, 1/4/epiandro and then td trest/epistane. Made good strength gains and added approx 7-8lbs lean mass off both.

Finished a cut with clen and eca about 3 weeks back.

Goal:

Ultimately to recomp, first half is lean bulk, last 6 weeks is about getting ripped. My aim is asthetics.

Cycle

Test e (all split into 2 pins)
Week 1-5 400 pw
Week 6-10 600 pw
Week 11-15 750 pw

Week 1-6 tbol 50 ed
Week 2-6 liquidien 2ml ed
Week 10-15 winny 50 ed
Week 1-21 hcg 250 2xpw (taper off in pct?)
Week 1-21 arimidex 0.25 e3d (taper in pct)
Week 1-21 td sr9009 (or 9011)

Mk677 at 25ed and cjc dac at 4mg a week throughout (been running both for around 6 weeks already, the mk around a year)

Week 10 - 21 gw 20ed

Supports week 1-21 (take most year round)

Arm1care pro
Tudca
Fish oil
Tumeric
Cinnamon
Black garlic
Celery seed
Probiotic
Fenugeek
Alcar
Creatine
Super greens powder
Astralagus
Zma
Glucosamine
Collagen powder

Pct week 14-21

Clomid 25/25/25/25/25/25/25/25
Nolva 0/0/0/0/20/20/10/10
Natty test booster (probably mtest)
Invictus - stated dose from week 2

On hand if needed

Aromisin
Caber (thinking the liqidien could have a prolactin impact)

I think im set now but if any of you fine gents can spot any gaps that would be great.

I'll be logging this as well. Will be looking to hit some decent lifting numbers with a 400lb squat and 550lb dead my minimum aim.
 
Liquiden I can't imagine causing prolactin.. I like your cycle and I would go lower test. I would also switch Sr to gw for two reasons, cholesterol and more proven benefits but I like the idea of transdermal Sr.
 
Just started my first pinning cycle August 6th. I will definitely be following along. We can "compare notes" at the end lol.
 
Chados said:
Liquiden I can't imagine causing prolactin.. I like your cycle and I would go lower test. I would also switch Sr to gw for two reasons, cholesterol and more proven benefits but I like the idea of transdermal Sr.
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Cheers for the input bro, the caber on hand is definitely more of a ‘just in case’ than an ‘expect to need’

I’ve got the gw in there as well from week 10. Both from a health on cycle perspective but also to give that little endurance kick to keep pushing through the end and pct....
 
Whisky said:
Cheers for the input bro, the caber on hand is definitely more of a ‘just in case’ than an ‘expect to need’

I’ve got the gw in there as well from week 10. Both from a health on cycle perspective but also to give that little endurance kick to keep pushing through the end and pct....
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Sounds good.. Could also see a really nice benefit stacking gw with sr during pct. As long as sr works as it should it would be a very nice addition to keep one from gaining fat with the raise in cortisol which gw will reduce. You'll love winny

How was your clen eca stack?
 
Your cycle seems strange... and complete over kill. Have you really thought this through? Tapering up to 750mg of test is not needed for a first cycle. An neither is any oral. You don't know how your body's going to react to using testosterone and orals you've never used before. Running orals with your first injectable will make it hard to narrow done the side effects. You will grow like a weed on 500mg of Test E. It's more then enough. And a extra 3 weeks isn't going to add anything more from just following a standard 12 week plan.
 
Lowkii said:
Your cycle seems strange... and complete over kill. Have you really thought this through? Tapering up to 750mg of test is not needed for a first cycle. An neither is any oral. You don't know how your body's going to react to using testosterone and orals you've never used before. Running orals with your first injectable will make it hard to narrow done the side effects. You will grow like a weed on 500mg of Test E. It's more then enough. And a extra 3 weeks isn't going to add anything more from just following a standard 12 week plan.
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I have to agree with some of this. No need to keep increasing dose personally id pick a dose amd stick to it. 500 is plenty to grow on and also gives you an idea how you will handle sides from the test. You have plenty of other things to help you with the orals and dien.

I do think 15 weeks is ok but the test will kinda fizzle out by week 12. Adding the winny tho at 50 a day will surely keep things going. You may find you dont need 50/day as I get results on as little as 25/day. Its the joints and the lipids that take a beating so my school of thought is less is more.

This is borderline big boy cycle with the amount of compounds you're running and the dose of test you want to jump into. I think you could get away with it however for your first cycle a little less may be a better option. Just a thought my friend good luck.

Edit. The dienelone for example I would leave out. The results I've seen on it seem to be underwhelming. And I also remember. Matthersby started a thread where his libido was shut down most likely due to prolactin as it's a 19 Nor. Something like this would make your cycle much less enjoyable in my opinion and these are the types of things experience really comes into play to know what's doing what.
 
Godstrength said:
I have to agree with some of this. No need to keep increasing dose personally id pick a dose amd stick to it. 500 is plenty to grow on and also gives you an idea how you will handle sides from the test. You have plenty of other things to help you with the orals and dien.

I do think 15 weeks is ok but the test will kinda fizzle out by week 12. Adding the winny tho at 50 a day will surely keep things going. You may find you dont need 50/day as I get results on as little as 25/day. Its the joints and the lipids that take a beating so my school of thought is less is more.

This is borderline big boy cycle with the amount of compounds you're running and the dose of test you want to jump into. I think you could get away with it however for your first cycle a little less may be a better option. Just a thought my friend good luck.

Edit. The dienelone for example I would leave out. The results I've seen on it seem to be underwhelming. And I also remember. Matthersby started a thread where his libido was shut down most likely due to prolactin as it's a 19 Nor. Something like this would make your cycle much less enjoyable in my opinion and these are the types of things experience really comes into play to know what's doing what.
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I actually stacked dien while running nanodrol and I have to stay it leaned me out compared to Nano alone, not a huge muscle builder though. I personally don't feel so bad on winny just my fingers get stiff but that goes away.. What I've noticed is that the mk677 really helps a ton with that but I agree 50 is a really strange recommended dosage on forums. I got shredded on a bulk at 40 so I can imagine what a cut would do at 50, almost feels like diminishing results.
 
Godstrength said:
I have to agree with some of this. No need to keep increasing dose personally id pick a dose amd stick to it. 500 is plenty to grow on and also gives you an idea how you will handle sides from the test. You have plenty of other things to help you with the orals and dien.

I do think 15 weeks is ok but the test will kinda fizzle out by week 12. Adding the winny tho at 50 a day will surely keep things going. You may find you dont need 50/day as I get results on as little as 25/day. Its the joints and the lipids that take a beating so my school of thought is less is more.

This is borderline big boy cycle with the amount of compounds you're running and the dose of test you want to jump into. I think you could get away with it however for your first cycle a little less may be a better option. Just a thought my friend good luck.

Edit. The dienelone for example I would leave out. The results I've seen on it seem to be underwhelming. And I also remember. Matthersby started a thread where his libido was shut down most likely due to prolactin as it's a 19 Nor. Something like this would make your cycle much less enjoyable in my opinion and these are the types of things experience really comes into play to know what's doing what.
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Thanks for the input bro.

The increasing test amounts came from another thread where I asked what would be best 600 a week for 15 weeks or 500 and have some left over (I don’t like wasting stuff and might want to change from test e next time etc) - basically I was asking how best to use all the test e I had fuelledpassion made some suggestions for me - I respect his views massively hence going with that (I also like the idea of the slowly progressing build up).

The dien has been a 50/50 call for me - not surprised you’ve mentioned it at all. I do have a boat load of caber just in case but I’m not expecting it to add a massive amount. It’s really a case of wanting to push the lean gains as much as possible in the first half before using the winny to get ripped (for personal reasons I have had a long term aim to long as good as I possibly can at the end of this year). Next year on my approach would be more relaxed regards the aspiration from a cycle for sure.
 
Whisky said:
Thanks for the input bro.

The increasing test amounts came from another thread where I asked what would be best 600 a week for 15 weeks or 500 and have some left over (I don’t like wasting stuff and might want to change from test e next time etc) - basically I was asking how best to use all the test e I had fuelledpassion made some suggestions for me - I respect his views massively hence going with that (I also like the idea of the slowly progressing build up).

The dien has been a 50/50 call for me - not surprised you’ve mentioned it at all. I do have a boat load of caber just in case but I’m not expecting it to add a massive amount. It’s really a case of wanting to push the lean gains as much as possible in the first half before using the winny to get ripped (for personal reasons I have had a long term aim to long as good as I possibly can at the end of this year). Next year on my approach would be more relaxed regards the aspiration from a cycle for sure.
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No problem man was just some suggestions but its obvious you've thought it out.... I definitely respect fueledpassion views and input. I'm sure you'll be blown away at the difference between this cycle and your last trest/epi run... As I said this is a borderline big boy cycle so watch out for them sides.
 
Chados said:
Sounds good.. Could also see a really nice benefit stacking gw with sr during pct. As long as sr works as it should it would be a very nice addition to keep one from gaining fat with the raise in cortisol which gw will reduce. You'll love winny

How was your clen eca stack?
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It was good bro, got me to a single figure bf for the first time and personally I enjoyed the clen sides (shakes etc) in a weird way.

I did learn that in future I’ll probably cut on cycle (or at the very least wait longer after pct to start one). Finished pct and then straight into a cut tanked the **** out of my test.

In fairness I don’t intend to get back above 15% bf at any point again so shouldn’t need more than a mini cut during future cycles.....
 
Chados said:
I actually stacked dien while running nanodrol and I have to stay it leaned me out compared to Nano alone, not a huge muscle builder though. I personally don't feel so bad on winny just my fingers get stiff but that goes away.. What I've noticed is that the mk677 really helps a ton with that but I agree 50 is a really strange recommended dosage on forums. I got shredded on a bulk at 40 so I can imagine what a cut would do at 50, almost feels like diminishing results.
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For sure bro.... I think 50 mg dose is often just parroted from people who have never played with the dose. I do think 50 is top of the mark where you start to see diminishing returns. Good Inj winny 50mg eod works fantastic.... Hurts like,a bitch though. Nothing can touch it for making you look lean and hard


What else were you running with the dienelone. That's usually what I hear is that it's not a great Builder but better for leaning out vascularity excetera.
 
Godstrength said:
No problem man was just some suggestions but its obvious you've thought it out.... I definitely respect fueledpassion views and input. I'm sure you'll be blown away at the difference between this cycle and your last trest/epi run... As I said this is a borderline big boy cycle so watch out for them sides.
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Thanks bro, I’ll be logging it to enable me to ask the inevitable side based questions I’m sure I’ll have.

I’ve already got pharma grade auxiliaries to address anything so looking forward to a great time but yeah I’m under no illusion this is a big step up.

I love training and nutrition is always on point as part of my normal lifestyle so should be giving the gear everything it needs to have the impact I’m after
 
Sweet. I'll get in on this.
 
Godstrength said:
For sure bro.... I think 50 mg dose is often just parroted from people who have never played with the dose. I do think 50 is top of the mark where you start to see diminishing returns. Good Inj winny 50mg eod works fantastic.... Hurts like,a bitch though. Nothing can touch it for making you look lean and hard


What else were you running with the dienelone. That's usually what I hear is that it's not a great Builder but better for leaning out vascularity excetera.
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I used low test and I was already seeing diminish results with the test so it was more of a finisher. Delienolone definitely needs to be stacked and I think combining it with nanodrol was great but since winstrol is such a beast at shredding you up I'm not sure dien will make a huge difference.

Yeah I get most of the bro science recommended dosages but winstrol 50mg is just crazy, let alone people using 100.
 
Clarification - The suggestion I made is for test only run. Oral kickstart is fine but I’d rather you front load or be patient and wait like a level-headed human being.

You don’t need other compounds and it complicates the process of learning anyways.

I’d rather see you run MK-677 & T4 with it.

If you are fearing bloat, it will go away once you come off the MK so don’t worry about that. Besides, the fullness that comes with high GH levels is fantastic. It looks like I have grapefruits and snakes shoved under my skin while on a moderate dose of Test + MK.
 
I wouldn't really call this a first cycle if you've ran trest and epistane before. For me trest blows test out of the water and epistane is not weak by any means.

I guess what I'm saying is, don't get your hopes up too high man, it should be a really enjoyable cycle but don't expect it to blow a trest/ epi cycle away.
 
Good luck with this, on a first cycle you would probably be better to keep test dosage the same throughout so you can judge aromatise better.
 
City Boy said:
Good luck with this, on a first cycle you would probably be better to keep test dosage the same throughout so you can judge aromatise better.
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Honestly, it doesn't matter which way he does it. But so you know, the aromatase issue is precisely why I like to taper it up over time. Dumping a large amount of test into the system is more likely to create excessive estrogen levels but at 500mg, it may not matter unless he is high in BF.

The idea I was proposing is to start a little lower than normal to assess your tolerance and reaction to higher T levels, gain control of the estrogen issue early on and then move forward. I've noticed that having control over estrogen prior to changing or increasing the dose works very well as compared to just waiting until the sides come about to start dealing with it.

Once the sides hit, it's much harder to get everything back in check again. So with that, I'd say regardless which approach he uses, taking a low dose of AI from the start is preferred.
 
fueledpassion said:
Honestly, it doesn't matter which way he does it. But so you know, the aromatase issue is precisely why I like to taper it up over time. Dumping a large amount of test into the system is more likely to create excessive estrogen levels but at 500mg, it may not matter unless he is high in BF.

The idea I was proposing is to start a little lower than normal to assess your tolerance and reaction to higher T levels, gain control of the estrogen issue early on and then move forward. I've noticed that having control over estrogen prior to changing or increasing the dose works very well as compared to just waiting until the sides come about to start dealing with it.

Once the sides hit, it's much harder to get everything back in check again. So with that, I'd say regardless which approach he uses, taking a low dose of AI from the start is preferred.
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I deliberately cut down (although try to never get high bf), pre cycle to help swerve any unnecessary estrogen issues. Will be low dosing adex from the off as well.

Loose skin makes exact guess by eye hard but based on previous dexa’s Etc I think 11% is probably about right (my visceral fat is typically very low).

Thanks for all your input bro
 
I don't mind the uptick in Test throughout, although I don't think you need 750mg for a first injectable cycle. I'm also not a fan of front-loading without a lot of experience. You'll adjust to the Test levels and hopefully dial in the ancillaries before you up the dose.

Also, don't run HCG into PCT. Use it throughout the cycle and have your last dose appx. 3-4 days before you start your PCT. You can double the doses for the last week or two prior to PCT if you have E2 in check.
 
RickyBlobby said:
I wouldn't really call this a first cycle if you've ran trest and epistane before. For me trest blows test out of the water and epistane is not weak by any means.

I guess what I'm saying is, don't get your hopes up too high man, it should be a really enjoyable cycle but don't expect it to blow a trest/ epi cycle away.
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For Muscle mass, nah. For 6 pack hell yeah
 
The cycle should be much easier on the body than Trest/Epi, that's for sure.

I generally just feel superb all around while on test in terms of performance, muscular fullness & mood but without any real sides to speak of other than maybe some testicular atrophy.
 
fueledpassion said:
The cycle should be much easier on the body than Trest/Epi, that's for sure.

I generally just feel superb all around while on test in terms of performance, muscular fullness & mood but without any real sides to speak of other than maybe some testicular atrophy.
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You made my decision for me. I just finished 7 weeks of tbol and have 5 weeks left of test E 500mg. Was going to add something to it but will run just test the rest of the way.
 
PoSiTiVeFLoW said:
Whaddup Whisky, how's the cycle?
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Lol, I’m still on holiday bro. Getting my pre cycle tan on.....

Back this weekend and starting straight away - will set up a log and tag in those who’ve commented on here next week bro

Most excited I’ve been about coming home from a holiday ever haha
 
Whisky said:
Lol, I’m still on holiday bro. Getting my pre cycle tan on.....

Back this weekend and starting straight away - will set up a log and tag in those who’ve commented on here next week bro

Most excited I’ve been about coming home from a holiday ever haha
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What about those that comment this week?
 
christ83189 said:
Tag me in bro. Excited for you. I know some people say trest blows test away which may be true really but i love test
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It does but most things coming from test is an improvement in terms of visual gains. Test is great but when you add something the cycle just becomes so much better. I like it more as a base nowadays.


I'm still not a huge fan of trest if I compare it to other nandrolones
 
Chados said:
It does but most things coming from test is an improvement in terms of visual gains. Test is great but when you add something the cycle just becomes so much better. I like it more as a base nowadays.


I'm still not a huge fan of trest if I compare it to other nandrolones
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Trest is still the only nandrolone ive tried and i was underwhelmed with it. Maybe bc it was caps. Next time i run it im running trest ace. Will be running deca here in the next couple months i think. How do you feel about deca?
 
christ83189 said:
Trest is still the only nandrolone ive tried and i was underwhelmed with it. Maybe bc it was caps. Next time i run it im running trest ace. Will be running deca here in the next couple months i think. How do you feel about deca?
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Deca is awesome.. I don't see how people bloat with it.. My guess is they use too much test and get estrogen.. This won't happen with tren cause it's so much more powerful in terms of keeping water and fat out. For you that seems to have a good control of your eating I'd say you'd be very pleased with deca.

Trest is almost a mix of low deca and high test and I'd rather see it being reversed.
 
Chados said:
Deca is awesome.. I don't see how people bloat with it.. My guess is they use too much test and get estrogen.. This won't happen with tren cause it's so much more powerful in terms of keeping water and fat out. For you that seems to have a good control of your eating I'd say you'd be very pleased with deca.

Trest is almost a mix of low deca and high test and I'd rather see it being reversed.
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Really want to run tren! But gonna do test/deca first see how huge i can get. Then later down the road ill run tren
 
christ83189 said:
Really want to run tren! But gonna do test/deca first see how huge i can get. Then later down the road ill run tren
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Tren when you eat a lot will change your body enormously but you can't keep that look unfortunately. Tren beats deca at everything except maybe weight but that's only if you add water and fat on deca.. The gains in muscle will be greater with tren.

Problem again is to keep the tren look and then I ask myself if it's worth it. I can go 600 on deca and to avoid sides I'd have to to under 400 on tren cause at 400 I have night sweats, higher than 400 I have anxiety paranoia you name it. So taking dosage in consideration I'd have similar if not better with deca cause I don't go above 2-300 on tren now.
 
PoSiTiVeFLoW said:
Well advancedphar.ma has Tren Ace on a stupid good sale (20 bucks a vial) for another 6 days...

Use code 2FREE+20%. I have 3 packs coming from them, lol. Stocked up.
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Dang too bad its gonna take more than 6 days of working on my wife to get her to let me get anything like that lol
 
PoSiTiVeFLoW said:
Well advancedphar.ma has Tren Ace on a stupid good sale (20 bucks a vial) for another 6 days...

Use code 2FREE+20%. I have 3 packs coming from them, lol. Stocked up on mainly Deca, EQ, Test E (also on sale for $20), and NPP.
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Hooray for source talk! lol isn’t this frowned upon?
 
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