Alcohol

muscleupcrohn said:
Yes, it's up to the individual, and AA doesn't assure anything, or work for everyone. I'm only saying that it CAN help SOME PEOPLE, as having more resources and access to some people who actually have managed to stay clean for decades can help some people. It didn't work for you, that's fine, but that doesn't mean it doesn't work for anyone. Same with your asinine comments about kratom; it is 100% addicting for some people. Your anecdote doesn't speak for all people or make the definitive rule man.
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Yea AA can work for some people. Don't knock it till you try it!
 
Bintherduntht said:
I guess it works for some and not for others. To each their own?

No worries here man just really wanting to help OP and if he doesn't want to take certain advice he won't! He probably didn't even listen to me lol.

Again just trying to help. I've struggled with addiction for 10 years, not fun.

I honestly never get addicted to K though... No cravings no withdrawal.

The way your supposed to take it, once or twice a week
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Yep, to each his own. No hard feelings; we’re all here trying to help. I’m glad you can use kratom effectively and without problems! It is good stuff when used responsibly.
 
Bintherduntht said:
Again all my advice is from life experience and not reading about it.
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Yeah, I get that' I'm just saying (suggesting?) that just because something works/is a certain way for you or in your experience doesn't mean that it is always this way for everyone, so perhaps it'd be wise to say that it's your experience or what works for you, not masquerading your experience as fact or absolute truth.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Yeah, I get that' I'm just saying (suggesting?) that just because something works/is a certain way for you or in your experience doesn't mean that it is always this way for everyone, so perhaps it'd be wise to say that it's your experience or what works for you, not masquerading your experience as fact or absolute truth.
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Yes I agree! I was just going to say just because these things worked/didn't work for me, doesn't ring true for someone else.

I think in the end we all have different ways of dealing with things, and different compounds affect us differently.

That's why I don't believe everything I read, I would rather try it hands on! A lot of studies are done being payed for by the company that wants to sell the products, so take what you read with a grain of salt.

By "you" I mean everyone.

I see how I may have come across too aggressive or negative!

A lot of good advice is in these forums, the OPs will see all our replies and hopefully come to the right conclusion, which sometimes takes some debating.

Too long didn't read!!! Lol
 
christ83189 said:
Bs dude i took kratom to get off opiates and was hooked worse on that sh1t than anything else and the withdrawals were just as bad if not worse than opiates. The withdrawals lasted a month and i didnt sleep AT ALL for 2 weeks
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Damn I'm sorry brother.

I should have said it worked for me.

You can lessen side effects by taking it 1-2 times a week.

I'm sorry again you went through those withdrawals!
 
christ83189 said:
Thanks for the apology. I appreciate that. I never said it was gospel. And i understand that some people can do it and have no issues but im not gonna stay quiet about how it treated me bc of that. I know that its not normal how it treated me but im not the first nor will i be the last. But it was someone telling me about it exactly how Bintherduntht was talking about it that got me to try it and it was one of the worst things that ever happened to me. I know other people like it and thats up to them but i dont care what anyone says im going to tell people my experience when i see other suggesting it for stuff like this bc who knows that person could end up exactly like me. I know if it wasnt for my wife and kids i probably wouldve just killed myself instead of keep trying bc i didnt have any hope. Thats why i approach it the way i do. If it offends anyone, oh well. K ive said enough. Back to your scheduled programming
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Dude, my LAST intention is to cause hurt to anyone.

1-2 times a week shouldn't cause issues imho!

Never wanted to hurt you or give bad advice
 
Brenwad said:
Yet you advocate Kratom, a super adductive drug!
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It's not addictive for me...

I don't crave it or withdraw because I use it sparingly which I believe your supposed to.

It helped me a lot, great preworkout(strength, focus)

Good for anxiety and calming. I Just use in moderation
 
almost 22 years sobriety....I was diagnosed as alcoholic in my late 20's and I will be 60 next month....I tried to quit many times only to go back to my 'true love' that was there for me in good times and bad.

1. find GOD...there are very few people who are truly addicted that have as many years sobriety as I do, I feel truly blessed to be among those few!!!

2. find someone who is hardcore and not going to let you talk shyt to them...for me it was an old black man named willie who had spent most of his life in prison and when he got out was a rehab counselor at the VA drug and alcohol rehab. willie became my sponsor after rehab, and eventually a very close friend who I could tell anything to---I was a pallbearer at willie's funeral a few years ago...RIP willie!!!


those were some dark years in my life, today I have no desire to drink and go back to that place!!!
 
Very well said man! I'm sorry to hear about your friend passing. Who will always live in your heart and he is in a better place. God bless you man!
 
Bintherduntht said:
Really though you guys, I would never give advice that I thought would cause harm.
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Not trying to blow smoke up your a$$, but I really believe this. I know you've rubbed a few the wrong way here, but I think you've always had the best intentions.

Carry on.
 
SFreed said:
Not trying to blow smoke up your a$$, but I really believe this. I know you've rubbed a few the wrong way here, but I think you've always had the best intentions.

Carry on.
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I realized I can rub people the wrong way! But yes my intentions are good.

I need to work on HOW I say it
 
thebigt said:
almost 22 years sobriety....I was diagnosed as alcoholic in my late 20's and I will be 60 next month....I tried to quit many times only to go back to my 'true love' that was there for me in good times and bad.

1. find GOD...there are very few people who are truly addicted that have as many years sobriety as I do, I feel truly blessed to be among those few!!!

2. find someone who is hardcore and not going to let you talk shyt to them...for me it was an old black man named willie who had spent most of his life in prison and when he got out was a rehab counselor at the VA drug and alcohol rehab. willie became my sponsor after rehab, and eventually a very close friend who I could tell anything to---I was a pallbearer at willie's funeral a few years ago...RIP willie!!!


those were some dark years in my life, today I have no desire to drink and go back to that place!!!
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Finding a higher power is definitely a good step in the right direction
 
Thank you man for the support. Trying my best. The kudzu root has 100% helped. Still have cravings here and there but nothing as bad as it used to be.
 
The longer you go the thing you need to look out for is complacency. When you think you're good and you dont got to worry about it so much is when you trick yourself into thinking it would be a good idea to just go have a couple drinks. Just remember. It never is
 
I know man. It's so challenging. It's been a part of my life for ever. Almost 33% of it. Doing my best to learn a new path and lifestyle. Training harder and focusing more on goals.
 
Delboss731 said:
I know man. It's so challenging. It's been a part of my life for ever. Almost 33% of it. Doing my best to learn a new path and lifestyle. Training harder and focusing more on goals.
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Yeah same thing for me. I quit drinking when i was 22 and never started again and that was after drinking daily for probably 5-6 years. Well almost daily anyways. Drinking was never my main thing though which was probably why i didnt struggle quitting very much. The one i struggled with was opiates and it took years and years of trying to quit. The few times i made it past a week i could never get past a couple months. Only was able to get past withdrawals a couple times and finally just this last year have been able to hold onto sobriety. Best thing i ever did for my life and my wife and kids
 
christ83189 said:
Yeah same thing for me. I quit drinking when i was 22 and never started again and that was after drinking daily for probably 5-6 years. Well almost daily anyways. Drinking was never my main thing though which was probably why i didnt struggle quitting very much. The one i struggled with was opiates and it took years and years of trying to quit. The few times i made it past a week i could never get past a couple months. Only was able to get past withdrawals a couple times and finally just this last year have been able to hold onto sobriety. Best thing i ever did for my life and my wife and kids
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Absolutely agree, best thing i ever did. My life is better literally in every way since i stopped.

Weirdly i found the coke (weed, speed and e as well) easier to kick than alcohol, it was like the drugs were hiding the fact alcohol had a massive grip on me. When they went my alcoholism was exposed and looking back it was ridiculous.

I don't really regret much in my life as i think we can learn from our mistakes and be a better person for it. I am extremely grateful i managed to find the strength to stop when i did though.
Delboss731 you got this bro. One day at a time. Trust it gets easier with time and you will, i promise, find the future to be a better place
 
muscleupcrohn said:
EC is nowhere near the same, assuming you mean ephedrine and caffeine. There’s MOUNTAINS of research on the combination.
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Meth is made from ephedrine btw... Anything speedy is a gateway to stronger stuff. Humans develop tolerance quickly and need more and more. If your a born addict then you should avoid anything you cannot use without moderation.
 
Had an issue with alcohol as well. One day got into fitness and that saved my life. Eventually started competing, placed in the top 5 in my first show and the rest is history. I am very proud of doing the right thing with my health. Focusing on fitness keeps me straight because since I love going to the gym so much, I know I can't drink in excess or my performance the next day will suffer. So if I'm getting ready for a show I do not drink during contest prep and if its the offseason I limit my drinking to a couple times a month in moderation. For example a nice dinner out with some good red wine.

I'm glad I didn't need professional help to quit my bad drinking habits. Good luck to you and stay strong.
 
bigsmall said:
Meth is made from ephedrine btw... Anything speedy is a gateway to stronger stuff. Humans develop tolerance quickly and need more and more. If your a born addict then you should avoid anything you cannot use without moderation.
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It is also made with Acetone, Lithium, Ammonia, Red Phosphorus, Sulfuric Acid, etc.
Ingredients that largely makeup batteries, paint thinner, brake fluid, drain cleaner.

Ephedrine is HARDLY the issue in meth. Lol
 
rascal14 said:
It is also made with Acetone, Lithium, Ammonia, Red Phosphorus, Sulfuric Acid, etc.
Ingredients that largely makeup batteries, paint thinner, brake fluid, drain cleaner.

Ephedrine is HARDLY the issue in meth. Lol
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My comment was in the light of addiction - in that Ephedrine is a gateway. Ephedrine is the ingredient in Meth that gets you high - the other ingredients you mentioned are for converting copious amounts of Ephedrine into the final product and for making that product usable. I agree these ingredients are not good for you - but folks on this forum (or anywhere unless they are using Meth or Cocaine) I am thinking don't injest the other ingredients. However, they do injest ephedrine.
 
bigsmall said:
My comment was in the light of addiction - in that Ephedrine is a gateway. Ephedrine is the ingredient in Meth that gets you high - the other ingredients you mentioned are for converting copious amounts of Ephedrine into the final product and for making that product usable. I agree these ingredients are not good for you - but folks on this forum (or anywhere unless they are using Meth or Cocaine) I am thinking don't injest the other ingredients. However, they do injest ephedrine.
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Lol no. There’s mountains of research on ephedrine, and it is not a “gateway drug.” If ephedrine has to be converted into something while making meth, it’s not actually ephedrine that’s getting you high, so just taking ephedrine doesn’t carry any of that same risk.
 
bigsmall said:
Meth is made from ephedrine btw... Anything speedy is a gateway to stronger stuff. Humans develop tolerance quickly and need more and more. If your a born addict then you should avoid anything you cannot use without moderation.
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Is caffeine not “speedy” or a “stimulant?” And do humans not build tolerance to it? So now addicts should abstain from caffeine? Just because ephedrine is used in meth doesn’t mean that their addictive potential is even remotely similar. It’s beyond fallacious logic. Grapes are used to make wine, should addicts abstain from eating grapes?
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Is caffeine not “speedy” or a “stimulant?” And do humans not build tolerance to it? So now addicts should abstain from caffeine? Just because ephedrine is used in meth doesn’t mean that their addictive potential is even remotely similar. It’s beyond fallacious logic. Grapes are used to make wine, should addicts abstain from eating grapes?
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To be fair ephedrine does have addictive potential. Not that its a huge risk for most. But when my wife found out i was taking bronkaid she did some research (she is very cautious with anything i take considering my past) and found a TON of forum posts about people being addicted to bronkaid and couldnt stop taking it. Ephedrine is not meth though nor should it be treated like it
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Is caffeine not “speedy” or a “stimulant?” And do humans not build tolerance to it? So now addicts should abstain from caffeine? Just because ephedrine is used in meth doesn’t mean that their addictive potential is even remotely similar. It’s beyond fallacious logic. Grapes are used to make wine, should addicts abstain from eating grapes?
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I understand what you are saying. Addicts need to steer clear of anything they cannot injest or do in moderation. Any one thing not done in moderation very most often leads them back to their preferred addiction. For example, having a couple of cups of coffee a day is one thing - but taking 200mg tabs of caffiene throughout the day is another to an addict who is addicted to speed / cocaine. Its a slippery slope that results in way too many deaths. Its best to simply abstain from anything that cannot be done in moderation.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Lol no. There’s mountains of research on ephedrine, and it is not a “gateway drug.” If ephedrine has to be converted into something while making meth, it’s not actually ephedrine that’s getting you high, so just taking ephedrine doesn’t carry any of that same risk.
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Ask anybody (like me) in the addiction community and they will tell you ephedrene is a gateway drug.
 
bigsmall said:
I understand what you are saying. Addicts need to steer clear of anything they cannot injest or do in moderation. Any one thing not done in moderation very most often leads them back to their preferred addiction. For example, having a couple of cups of coffee a day is one thing - but taking 200mg tabs of caffiene throughout the day is another to an addict who is addicted to speed / cocaine. Its a slippery slope that results in way too many deaths. Its best to simply abstain from anything that cannot be done in moderation.
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Fair enough, but a key component of addiction is the detrimental effects of the addiction on the individual, and the people they associate with (from the family to society at large). Caffeine consumption, even in some level of excess, isn’t going to have nearly the same deleterious effects as actual drugs of abuse do, so even if an addict does end up having several hundred milligrams of caffeine a day, if that’s all they’re using, they’re still infinitely better off than before, as long as they don’t add more stuff in later and keep escalating.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Fair enough, but a key component of addiction is the detrimental effects of the addiction on the individual, and the people they associate with (from the family to society at large). Caffeine consumption, even in some level of excess, isn’t going to have nearly the same deleterious effects as actual drugs of abuse do, so even if an addict does end up having several hundred milligrams of caffeine a day, if that’s all they’re using, they’re still infinitely better off than before, as long as they don’t add more stuff in later and keep escalating.
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Absolutely this......

Addicts can become addicted to many things, not all of them are detrimental.

My coke and alcohol addiction nearly destroyed me and those around me.

But

I work in sales and am addicted to the endorphin release that comes from making a sale. That has given me a great income and the means to support my family in ways many aren’t fortunate too. I’m completely addicted to training and the chemical release from that, it’s going to probably add years to my life but crucially it will massively improve my quality of life as I get older. Now both those examples involve very similar chemical reactions in the brain as coke and e but no one would say it’s a bad thing.

In my opinion it’s not the addictive nature of the relationship you have with anything, it’s the ability of that thing to harm you......

I drink a lot of coffee (min 800mg caffeine a day, normally more) - honestly don’t believe I have any issues from it.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Is caffeine not “speedy” or a “stimulant?” And do humans not build tolerance to it? So now addicts should abstain from caffeine? Just because ephedrine is used in meth doesn’t mean that their addictive potential is even remotely similar. It’s beyond fallacious logic. Grapes are used to make wine, should addicts abstain from eating grapes?
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lol...try to find a AA meeting WITHOUT a coffee pot....just sayin
 
Delboss731 said:
Thank you bro. Really appreciate it!
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a lot of people have offered advice, but what it comes down to is how bad do you want it!!!

once a alky always a alky, even after 20 years of sobriety I am convinced that 1 drink will be my downfall....but for the grace of GOD there go I.
 
Yeah. I understand. I have a few drinks since the original post but nothing like before. I'm telling you this kudzu root just doesn't make me feel like drinking. I used to get the slightest urge and I would just say **** it, then go have a drink. Now it really doesn't pay me mind when it comes to thought.
 
Delboss731 said:
Yeah. I understand. I have a few drinks since the original post but nothing like before. I'm telling you this kudzu root just doesn't make me feel like drinking. I used to get the slightest urge and I would just say **** it, then go have a drink. Now it really doesn't pay me mind when it comes to thought.
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Nice man. When doing substances being in control and on top is everything
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Fair enough, but a key component of addiction is the detrimental effects of the addiction on the individual, and the people they associate with (from the family to society at large). Caffeine consumption, even in some level of excess, isn’t going to have nearly the same deleterious effects as actual drugs of abuse do, so even if an addict does end up having several hundred milligrams of caffeine a day, if that’s all they’re using, they’re still infinitely better off than before, as long as they don’t add more stuff in later and keep escalating.
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Well yea... Go to an NA/AA... They ALL sit there drinking coffee and rolling cigarettes. They do anything they can except hard drugs
 
Bintherduntht said:
Well yea... Go to an NA/AA... They ALL sit there drinking coffee and rolling cigarettes. They do anything they can except hard drugs
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I liked the coffee at meetings and even tolerated the chain smoking back when smoking was allowed...but when they started doing court ordered mandatory meetings it ruined it for me.
 
Whats ironic is that if a person is a former cocaine abuser and takes in enough caffeine it can trigger something in their brain which gives them a false high of being on blow. They can experience the same side effects they used to get when they were on cocaine. Not as much but still enough to notice and feel different. Thats why they are all addicted to caffeine now.
 
LoveCompeting said:
Whats ironic is that if a person is a former cocaine abuser and takes in enough caffeine it can trigger something in their brain which gives them a false high of being on blow. They can experience the same side effects they used to get when they were on cocaine. Not as much but still enough to notice and feel different. Thats why they are all addicted to caffeine now.
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no one I know of knocking off 7-11's to get a caffeine fix....just sayin
 
thebigt said:
no one I know of knocking off 7-11's to get a caffeine fix....just sayin
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Haha yeah this is true. I’m a former coke addict and I love my caffeine but I’ve never got taxis to Starbucks at 2am just to get another expresso.

Even chocolate has been linked to chemical reactions and the provision of a ‘high’, but there’s levels, you can’t compare caffeine to coke imo.....
 
Whisky said:
Haha yeah this is true. I’m a former coke addict and I love my caffeine but I’ve never got taxis to Starbucks at 2am just to get another expresso.

Even chocolate has been linked to chemical reactions and the provision of a ‘high’, but there’s levels, you can’t compare caffeine to coke imo.....
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I would like to see more fat kids trade their addiction to food for addiction to fitness....not all addictions are created equal, imo.
 
LoveCompeting said:
Whats ironic is that if a person is a former cocaine abuser and takes in enough caffeine it can trigger something in their brain which gives them a false high of being on blow. They can experience the same side effects they used to get when they were on cocaine. Not as much but still enough to notice and feel different. Thats why they are all addicted to caffeine now.
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Yep happened to me it was intense.
For real
 
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