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Question about Test E gains vs Porhormones.

Choppedjunior

Member
Hey guys, Quick stats im 6"1 170lbs, about 8%bf, been training 5+ years.
I currently consume 4500 calories a day, i do struggle with colitis, which i think causes some weight gain issues as i know guys are going to say EAT MORE before cycling.

I have done multiple PH cycles over the years mostly MSTEN with TD trest 50-100mg, my last one i got up to about 182lbs, then was maintaining around 173lbs which then i went through a really rough breakup and lost pretty much all the weight I gained. I seem to noice with PHs i tend to loose a majority of the weight after cycle, i keep maybe 1-2lbs.

After cycle I do up calories and workout same as on cycle and i have a trainer i see 4x a week then do light stuff another 2x a week. I know i could eat more calories but as some know at a point it becomes a chore, and this is what happened to the point i had to basically gave up my social life to eat.

I am considering running a simple test e cycle, not sure how much yet as i see 500 is a good start, but others say too much for first cycle, but would these gains be easier to keep the a PHs? I really just want to gain about 10lbs and stay there.
 
Just ran my first cycle of test cyp 500mg a week. I'm 34 and my body fat was in the 15 -20 range. I gained 18 lbs in 10 weeks. I also ate like a madman. I'm guessing by my mirror that 8-10bs of this was muscle, the other 8 is water weight and fat. I plan on dropping to maintenance calories and up cardio until I am satisfied by what I look like, I have no idea how much I am going to keep.

I think a lot of what you keep depends on pct and calories after your cycle. I am on trt so I won't have PCT, hopefully for me trt will Minimize the amount of muscle I lose off cycle.
 
Eat more. I’ve had all these same problems(except Colitis), only I will eat until I puke if I want to gain weight. And just as important as eating before cycle, during cycle, the MOST important is eating after your cycle. If you’re losing all but a lb or two, it’s a food issue(as you’re likely just loading glycogen and water, no real weight)
I wouldn’t complain about being 8% though.

If you want size, that bodyfat needs to be the last thing you’re concerned with. Mine goes up the second I go into any kind of surplus. Especially when I up my carbs. I just stop looking at the mirror unless it’s post workout on a pump, if I want size.
 
I’m not too familiar with colitis, but I’m guessing that you’re not eating anywhere near 4500cals if you’re not gaining weight with those stats. Personally, oral steroids treated me way better in results compared to testosterone, but maybe an oral kicker and extending the cycle with testosterone could help maintain those results. Some people do blow up on basic test cycles, but you’ll never know till you try it.
 
Matthersby said:
I’m over 230 right now and I gain weight at 4500 cals
Click to expand...

Exactly; 4000 cals makes me thicc af man, and my metabolism has always been high. I was 130lbs when I started lifting at 6’0, so I can’t imagine many people having a higher metabolism than me lol.
 
This will be the typical ' i eat loads' crap you get from people who actually barely eat. Pretty sure your training is total garbage also.

You've ruined your system with trash prohormones. Start 500mgs of test per week. Eat three 1200 calorie meals per day, plus a post workout shake with 50 grams of protein and carbs. Train a basic 5x5 routine Monday and Thursday. Do a straight body building daySaturday to fill in gaps. You'll grow. It is not rocket science. You're not a special snowflake, nor do you defy the laws of thermo dynamics.

Best of luck.
 
Brenwad said:
This will be the typical ' i eat loads' crap you get from people who actually barely eat. Pretty sure your training is total garbage also.

You've ruined your system with trash prohormones. Start 500mgs of test per week. Eat three 1200 calorie meals per day, plus a post workout shake with 50 grams of protein and carbs. Train a basic 5x5 routine Monday and Thursday. Do a straight body building daySaturday to fill in gaps. You'll grow. It is not rocket science. You're not a special snowflake, nor do you defy the laws of thermo dynamics.

Best of luck.
Click to expand...

Hey! They are not all trash!!
 
I won’t say it as harshly but agree with the above. Personally I’m 6’2, 200lbs and gain weight at 4,000 Cals, I eat crazy clean though and run for 45 mins 5-6 times a week (as well as lifting 5 times a week). I know we are all different regards exact metabolic rates etc but it’s unlikely you are that far away from the normal. Unless you are burning crazy amounts in cardio or have worms you probably just need to recheck your calorIe intake bro.

Colitis sucks though man, feel for you in that regard for sure
 
Gains are made in the kitchen and resting. Preparation is key. I woukd chuck the ph and run 400 to 500ngs of test e for 10 weeks if your eating enough b4 during and after cycle and train heavy with good form you'll. Grow. Preparation and consistency are keys . personally id miss a workout b4 I miss a meal
 
Dthcore said:
Hey! They are not all trash!!
Click to expand...

They all suck balls compared to tried and tested gear. If you could easily buy fest,tren, dbol and Var online, nobody would buy ph/sarms. It's the grey area availability that gives people incentive to use sdrol etc,despite phs being less effective & more side effect heavy.

Test, test and more test.
 
Brenwad said:
They all suck balls compared to tried and tested gear. If you could easily buy fest,tren, dbol and Var online, nobody would buy ph/sarms. It's the grey area availability that gives people incentive to use sdrol etc,despite phs being less effective & more side effect heavy.

Test, test and more test.
Click to expand...

Whilst instinctively I agree with that I have seen many experienced people stating that some ph’d/ds’s are comparable or better than some proper ass?

I’m interested as I’m at the start of my anabolic journey so trying to learn what’s going to be the best for future runs, things like dbol, adrol, var etc or msten, sdrol and so on....?
 
M Sten and Trest definitely aren't trash, but test is test. Nothing beats test. It's the stuff. Your body will develop harder and more easily retained muscle with test. The faster muscle comes on the harder it is to keep (your body wants to regulate any rapid change by direct resistance) so you have to work extra hard with your nutrition, training, and recovery to maintain it long enough to consider it "permanently gained" LBM.
 
Old Witch said:
M Sten and Trest definitely aren't trash, but test is test. Nothing beats test. It's the stuff. Your body will develop harder and more easily retained muscle with test. The faster muscle comes on the harder it is to keep (your body wants to regulate any rapid change by direct resistance) so you have to work extra hard with your nutrition, training, and recovery to maintain it long enough to consider it "permanently gained" LBM.
Click to expand...

Trest is great, but it's no better than equivalent dose dbol, or Anadrol,yet the sides are crazy hard to manage. I'm lucky in having very few sides from using high dosages of test,dbol,adrol. I'm probably being too harsh tbh, but I think this sarms ban in the USA will force people all over the western world to use old school gear, once Chinese labs cease mass producing the raws.
 
It's a very complex and dangerous journey. There is a reason most phs were developed decades ago, tried, rejected. A really steady-I'd say life long-test cycle is safe, effective and wonderful for the mood.
 
Brenwad said:
It's a very complex and dangerous journey. There is a reason most phs were developed decades ago, tried, rejected. A really steady-I'd say life long-test cycle is safe, effective and wonderful for the mood.
Click to expand...
Yet you’re claiming cardarine, which was also developed, tried, and rejected, is safe at twice the highest dose ever used in a human study.
 
Matthersby said:
Eat more. I’ve had all these same problems(except Colitis), only I will eat until I puke if I want to gain weight. And just as important as eating before cycle, during cycle, the MOST important is eating after your cycle. If you’re losing all but a lb or two, it’s a food issue(as you’re likely just loading glycogen and water, no real weight)
I wouldn’t complain about being 8% though.

If you want size, that bodyfat needs to be the last thing you’re concerned with. Mine goes up the second I go into any kind of surplus. Especially when I up my carbs. I just stop looking at the mirror unless it’s post workout on a pump, if I want size.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't complaint about 8% at 210lb.
6'1" 170 is skinny.
 
I wonder how heavy OP is going.
I agree with 5x5 at 75% of max increase weight every 4 weeks with test/npp for 16 weeks.
I also wonder about 4500cals.
That's a lot if food. I guess bump to 6000. Ice cream diet
A tub of I've cream is like 3000 calories
 
I think you can def run moderate amounts of test say like 400mg a week for several years with no problems, given that blood work is always followed up
 
Brenwad said:
It's a very complex and dangerous journey. There is a reason most phs were developed decades ago, tried, rejected. A really steady-I'd say life long-test cycle is safe, effective and wonderful for the mood.
Click to expand...
If I had to choose between 500 mg of test
Or trt and my choice of PH is choose PH/trt and id get stronger. At least for me.
I know some people add 75lb to their bench on 500 mg of test but it just dosnt do that for me.
 
Brenwad said:
Trest is great, but it's no better than equivalent dose dbol, or Anadrol,yet the sides are crazy hard to manage. I'm lucky in having very few sides from using high dosages of test,dbol,adrol. I'm probably being too harsh tbh, but I think this sarms ban in the USA will force people all over the western world to use old school gear, once Chinese labs cease mass producing the raws.
Click to expand...
I'm still betting on no-ban.
S23/S4 maybe.
Osta is bought by big pharma. At least that's what I've been told.
 
Anyway, as for actual suggestions/advice, I think it's very possible that the colitis is, as cgkone suggested, having some effect on your ability to gain weight. Would you say it is well controlled or no?
 
Brenwad said:
I've bulk bought a lot of ostarine powder,cardarine, S4 and lgd. I'm in UK,so hoping things will stay the same.
Click to expand...
Ill have SARMs until I'm dead I think people like the sales increase when they say "ban"
Because lots of people flashback to the PH ban. They think "man I wish I would have stocked on x,y and z". The BOOM!! And get to ordering.
 
Cgkone said:
Ill have SARMs until I'm dead I think people like the sales increase when they say "ban"
Because lots of people flashback to the PH ban. They think "man I wish I would have stocked on x,y and z". The BOOM!! And get to ordering.
Click to expand...

Great time to own a ph/sarm company ��
 
Cgkone said:
Ill have SARMs until I'm dead I think people like the sales increase when they say "ban"
Because lots of people flashback to the PH ban. They think "man I wish I would have stocked on x,y and z". The BOOM!! And get to ordering.
Click to expand...
Pretty much this. It was the same with guns under Obama. You used to be able to pick up an SKS for maybe $200, but it got to a point where you were lucky to find one for $400. Forget how much the value of actual Russian guns skyrocketed after the import ban. No one wants to miss out on something like this in any field, supplements, guns, etc, so you see people stocking up any time a ban may be coming. It really spikes short-term sales, which is ironically what the people making the bans want to avoid!
 
Cgkone said:
Ill have SARMs until I'm dead I think people like the sales increase when they say "ban"
Because lots of people flashback to the PH ban. They think "man I wish I would have stocked on x,y and z". The BOOM!! And get to ordering.
Click to expand...

Is mk677 banned too? Think rc companies will still Carrie?
 
Dthcore said:
Hey! They are not all trash!!
Click to expand...

Yep. I'll take DMZ over Dbol most of the time, and I am a big fan of Trest. ..But Anavar is one of my favorite compounds.
I don't buy something based upon what category it's put in.... I buy it (or don't) based upon it's individual merits, and downsides.
 
Renew1 said:
Yep. I'll take DMZ over Dbol most of the time, and I am a big fan of Trest. ..But Anavar is one of my favorite compounds.
I don't buy something based upon what category it's put in.... I buy it (or don't) based upon it's individual merits, and downsides.
Click to expand...

I ****ing love SuperDrol!!
 
SD really is magical. Only thing is it comes with a price. I at getting to the age, where I’ll take a little water weight to feel like I do on Dbol, and not how I feel on SD.
 
Matthersby said:
SD really is magical. Only thing is it comes with a price. I at getting to the age, where I’ll take a little water weight to feel like I do on Dbol, and not how I feel on SD.
Click to expand...

Agree. This us exactly why elite bbers, strongmen and powerlifters use dbol,adrol and Var,not sdrol-they make you feel good, not horrific.
 
Cgkone said:
I'm still betting on no-ban.
S23/S4 maybe.
Osta is bought by big pharma. At least that's what I've been told.
Click to expand...
You guys know there is pending legislation already and Purerawz moved to EU, also Enahanced Athlete dropped all SARMs off US websites... This is a new political climate, comparison to gun bans under Obama do not apply as 2A is built into Constitution, SARMs not so much.

Tony partnered with IA Superpharma and now launched Enhanced Arsenal products from Thailand or Malaysia etc. Somewhere over there lol, not in US.

I'll just keep getting PHs from UK/SARMs worst case, maybe some US UGL. Love me some German Pharma. Don't sweat custom's I got one of their seizure letters like 10 years ago, no big deal. If it's well packed makes it through 99% plus.
 
PoSiTiVeFLoW said:
You guys know there is pending legislation already and Purerawz moved to EU, also Enahanced Athlete dropped all SARMs off US websites... This is a new political climate, comparison to gun bans under Obama do not apply as 2A is built into Constitution, SARMs not so much.

Tony partnered with IA Superpharma and now launched Enhanced Arsenal products from Thailand or Malaysia etc. Somewhere over there lol, not in US.

I'll just keep getting PHs from UK/SARMs worst case, maybe some US UGL. Love me some German Pharma. Don't sweat custom's I got one of their seizure letters like 10 years ago, no big deal. If it's well packed makes it through 99% plus.
Click to expand...

IA Superpharma looks interesting. I've heard good things from German Pharma too. I've actually never ordered online before in regards to this stuff because for some reason even if my order did make it through whether its via international or domestic, I have this irrational fear that once the package is delivered to my house I'll have to sign for it and I'll wind up unknowingly signing my life away.

I realize this may sound a bit far fetched, mostly because I knew of someone who got set up ( he really set himself up actually) because the postman winded up being a fed in disguise. But I have a hard time believing they'd go through that much trouble over someone ordering a small quantity of gear. If said person was making rather large purchases of gear, then I could why that'd raise suspicions. I'm overthinking this I'm sure lol.
 
Brenwad said:
They all suck balls compared to tried and tested gear. If you could easily buy fest,tren, dbol and Var online, nobody would buy ph/sarms. It's the grey area availability that gives people incentive to use sdrol etc,despite phs being less effective & more side effect heavy.

Test, test and more test.
Click to expand...

Id put sdrol methyl alpha and m1T against alot of AAS and ive tried almost anything you can take
 
Brenwad said:
Agree. This us exactly why elite bbers, strongmen and powerlifters use dbol,adrol and Var,not sdrol-they make you feel good, not horrific.
Click to expand...

Absolutely!
Elite athletes would definitely choose low sides over better gains!

I guess it's just a nobody like me (and a lot of other apparent "nobody's" on this site, and around the world) who will sometimes tolerate not feeling the very best, in order to achieve their best gains.
 
Hey sorry I was away this weekend. I know i am skinny, but deff muscular for my size i feel. My workout isnt trash maybe a bit intense going to do an upper lower split start next week. Right now I train 4x week, typically upper lower. its mostly super sets but it will be like Benching with chains 4x8 with 6 second drop paid with Rows or something. Usually chest/back chest back/ then shoulders and mobility stuff. Then i do go to the gym 2x on my own to do some ams and calves and abs.

I deff come very close to 4500 calories. This is sort of my eating routine, although lunch and dinner get a bit tricky since always on the go.(also I just added in the weight gainer)

Breakfast smoothie.

1 cup oats
1 cup frozen fruit
1/2 cup spinach
1.5 cups egg whites
1.5 cups almond milk
2tablesppons of olive oil
2 table spoons of Peanutbutter

Snack
Protein Bar - Cliff or PureProtein

Lunch:
Lately its been like a tuna sandwich or turkey sandwich, which is low in cals, so usually ends up being 400calories.
2 scoops of weight gainer 600 (preworkout)
2 scoops of Whey post workout 400


Dinner
usually some protein source with cup of carbs and greens.

Snack before Bed:
1 cup Greek Yogurt
4 tablespoons PB
1 Banana
1 Cup pretzels (sometimes I have some type of snack usually a carb source. Rice cakes etc.

So based on MyFitnessPal I end up Breakfast 1000 calories, Lunch+snack = 1600, Dinner 600, snack 700 . This is closer to 4000, but there is typically another item thrown into the mix during the day. around 200-300 calories so i guess 4300
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Anyway, as for actual suggestions/advice, I think it's very possible that the colitis is, as cgkone suggested, having some effect on your ability to gain weight. Would you say it is well controlled or no?
Click to expand...

yeah for the most part yes, I did have an issue recently due to not eating after going through a break up which i lost some weight. I was able to gain 2lbs back quickly, but need a few more to get me back into the low 170s. I've mentioned to my Dr about possible absorption issues, but doesnt seem like possibility he says, but for me I do eat a lot and was eating like crazy on the PHs to the point i didn't even leave my house, which is why I was considering trest. I really just want to be in the 180-190lb mark and be able to maintain.
 
bradleyt1 said:
I think you can def run moderate amounts of test say like 400mg a week for several years with no problems, given that blood work is always followed up
Click to expand...
I’d love to see some real world feedback on this as TRT level test just doesn’t do much of anything for me but 300mg or more a week, then I have the energy and endurance, positive mood, good sex drive, that most men report off just a TRT dose.
 
Alistair_ said:
I’d love to see some real world feedback on this as TRT level test just doesn’t do much of anything for me but 300mg or more a week, then I have the energy and endurance, positive mood, good sex drive, that most men report off just a TRT dose.
Click to expand...

Same. I’m not looking forward to when I have to drop down to 150 or some crap just to keep myself healthy. 300 is so much better.
 
Matthersby said:
Same. I’m not looking forward to when I have to drop down to 150 or some crap just to keep myself healthy. 300 is so much better.
Click to expand...
Yes at 300 my mood is great and I have no negative aggression whatsoever. Some guys get that when go up to just 150mg a week. I’ve even read feedback from guys that said they don’t feel as good on higher doses as they do at a measly 100mg a week. I’m wondering WTF is wrong with me that I need 300 a week to feel like a normal person.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Anyway, as for actual suggestions/advice, I think it's very possible that the colitis is, as cgkone suggested, having some effect on your ability to gain weight. Would you say it is well controlled or no?
Click to expand...

I think his best bet is to leave gear alone and just accept being 170 pounds until his appetite is big enough to maintain some gains post cycle.
 
Choppedjunior said:
Hey guys, Quick stats im 6"1 170lbs, about 8%bf, been training 5+ years.
I currently consume 4500 calories a day, i do struggle with colitis, which i think causes some weight gain issues as i know guys are going to say EAT MORE before cycling.

I have done multiple PH cycles over the years mostly MSTEN with TD trest 50-100mg, my last one i got up to about 182lbs, then was maintaining around 173lbs which then i went through a really rough breakup and lost pretty much all the weight I gained. I seem to noice with PHs i tend to loose a majority of the weight after cycle, i keep maybe 1-2lbs.

After cycle I do up calories and workout same as on cycle and i have a trainer i see 4x a week then do light stuff another 2x a week. I know i could eat more calories but as some know at a point it becomes a chore, and this is what happened to the point i had to basically gave up my social life to eat.

I am considering running a simple test e cycle, not sure how much yet as i see 500 is a good start, but others say too much for first cycle, but would these gains be easier to keep the a PHs? I really just want to gain about 10lbs and stay there.
Click to expand...

If you want more size, you have to eat more, colitis -or not.
DIGESTION is the most overlooked factor when it comes to bulking -or getting bigger in general, no matter what PED is used. I would suggest Betaine HCL with every meal.
 
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