Can 7-Ment be used as a test base
- Thread starter SDPonce63
- Start date
hairygrandpa
Legend
Had to read about it and found out its just MENT (Trestolone). Its the best test base -BUT with the harshest shutdown.
Oral Trest has a very short half life -and if you go over a certain dosage, you'll run into trouble. It converts to methyl estrogen, progesterone and ups prolactin -perfect combo for tits.
Oral Trest has a very short half life -and if you go over a certain dosage, you'll run into trouble. It converts to methyl estrogen, progesterone and ups prolactin -perfect combo for tits.
SDPonce63
Member
So taking that into consideration, 4 andro would be a better route?
hairygrandpa
Legend
What do you wanna take, what will be the test base for?
hairygrandpa
Legend
Well. Even not knowing the dosages, your cycle looks way to serious for 4-ad. If you can source "dermal trest", that would be your very best bet.
Oral trest would work too, maybe at 3x10mg/d.
Personally I would skip LGD, never did anything for me, besides giving some sides. I guess you want to use it to prolong the cycle, after dropping the other orals, right? Go with the trest for longer instead.
The PCT afterwards has to be as good as it gets. Clomid + Nolva -or Torem at fairly high dosages and for at least 5 weeks IMHO.
hairygrandpa
Legend
I would recommend dermal trest over oral first. Maybe a combo of both -BUT not more than 30mg/d oral AND if in combo with transdermal, 30mg once a day pre workout.
hairygrandpa
Legend
Using any other stuff as a base, besides trest , will probably cut your cycle short and you will not use LGD after the orals anyway, due to lethargy and estrogen deficiency (joint pain, sh1tty feeling). Estrogen deficiency arises due to hard test suppression, hence no conversion of test---> estrogen.
The very best would be....you already guesses it: testosterone IM. But if you do, no need for orals anyway, everything changes.
The very best would be....you already guesses it: testosterone IM. But if you do, no need for orals anyway, everything changes.
hairygrandpa
Legend
SDPonce63
Member
I can’t do test lol what’s the next best pct option?
hairygrandpa
Legend
Switching nolva for torem:
120/120/60/60/60
Or did you mean:
Whats the next best test base?
SDPonce63
Member
No you Answered my question. So a recap, MENT is the best test base but has estrogen issues of the dosages are not right. DermaTr3st is more effective than oral Tr3st?
BlockBuilder
Well-known member
Transdermal Trest is superior to oral
hairygrandpa
Legend
For unknown reasons, TD trest does not give the nipple trouble as oral -or IM trest-ace does. And NO, its not about estrogen, believe me. Its the lethal combo of all 3: Progestin/Progesterone + methyl estro + prolactin AND the fact that trest shuts you down HARD.
Also, not all users have problems on any form of trest.
Oral trest vs dermal trest
oral:
-very short half life
-short HL = hormonal spikes
-high conversion rate (I do not use aromatization, don't ask why...it fills books to explain, don't go there)
TD
-relativ long HL
-no roller coaster of hormones
-better absorbtion
-strangely, way lower conversion to Prolac,progest.M-estro
DonnieM
Active member
Too many orals IMO. I would pick one, Msten or DMZ.
With this I would run Trest TD at ~50-75mg/day, Tudca+NAC for liver support and maybe some low dose AI like Adex/Exemestane to control the estro.
PCT for me would be Nolva at 20/20/10/10/5 or similar.
Also make sure to drink plenty of water and watch/measure your BP during cycle.
Trest will most likely make you feel good, give good strength and make you super frisky.
Bonus add-ons for this cycle could be Proviron for sense of well being/libido and it also dries you up a bit. And HcG for the balls.
With this I would run Trest TD at ~50-75mg/day, Tudca+NAC for liver support and maybe some low dose AI like Adex/Exemestane to control the estro.
PCT for me would be Nolva at 20/20/10/10/5 or similar.
Also make sure to drink plenty of water and watch/measure your BP during cycle.
Trest will most likely make you feel good, give good strength and make you super frisky.
Bonus add-ons for this cycle could be Proviron for sense of well being/libido and it also dries you up a bit. And HcG for the balls.
SDPonce63
Member
Too many orals IMO. I would pick one, Msten or DMZ.
With this I would run Trest TD at ~50-75mg/day, Tudca+NAC for liver support and maybe some low dose AI like Adex/Exemestane to control the estro.
PCT for me would be Nolva at 20/20/10/10/5 or similar.
Also make sure to drink plenty of water and watch/measure your BP during cycle.
Trest will most likely make you feel good, give good strength and make you super frisky.
Bonus add-ons for this cycle could be Proviron for sense of well being/libido and it also dries you up a bit. And HcG for the balls.
Would it be more beneficial to use DMZ and LMG since lmg isn’t methylated?
SDPonce63
Member
Also, what’s the difference between transdermal Trest and Trest TD? Both are dermal application.
Cgkone
Well-known member
Yes.
Cgkone
Well-known member
What else are you running?
SDPonce63
Member
I was planning on running DMZ and Msten with CEL cycle guard with tudca and all of the vitamins and fish oils. However when it comes to a test base I’m getting mixed opinions, people here prefer the dermal applications over MENT and oral TREST however, one guy recommended TREST TD which is different than DermaTrest. I do not know which one would be more beneficial to a test base.
My pct would probably be Nolvadex just because I’ve used it in the past and loved it. So hat being said Nolvadex 20/20/10/10/5, anti cortisol and a natural test booster. I might run my cycle guard into the pct just to help things out a bit. Any advice?
Cgkone
Well-known member
My advice is just use the trest as needed for energy and sex I wouldn't take it everyday. That being said dermatrest is transdermal trest.
I've actually heard transdermal trest is stronger than oral trest so everybody's different. You can also do both do the transdermal daily the minimal dose and then add the oral pre workout or pre sex if needed. What did you use for your test base before?
SDPonce63
Member
I ran a MSTEN cycle with LGD 4033 and used dermacrine and I had no lethargy or shut down. However, I know DMZ is more potent than LGD and thus requires something stronger than dermacrine
SDPonce63
Member
Check this out, this is trest TD:
https://www.***********.com/transformation-labs-trest-td-60-servings.html
This is dermatrest:
https://www.*****************.com/prohormones/olympus-labs/dermatrest.html
Ingredients are different or am I tripping lol
SDPonce63
Member
**** link won’t post.
DermaTrest
Olympus Labs Dermatrest 120ml
Serving Size: 1ml
Servings Per Container: 120ml
Amount Per Serving
17-hydroxy-7a-methylestr-4-en-3-one
Trest TD
Supplement Facts:
Serving Size: 1 Pump (1.5ml) Servings Per Container: 60
Ammount Per Serving %DV
Trest 45mg *
17 Beta;-hydroxy - 7 - Alpha - methylestr-4-en-3-one.
Looks super similar in ingredients but I’m not 100% sure.
Cgkone
Well-known member
Same thing . I think
Cgkone
Well-known member
I would just get the decramine again and have trest for just in case.
Like HG said trest will shut you down HARD
SDPonce63
Member
Alright, so dermacrine daily and have DermaTrest on hand and use it every other day or occasionally when needed to prevent shut down? HG suggested Nolvadex and Clomid. Sounds like a good bet for these supplements, what do you gather?
Cgkone
Well-known member
Everything HG suggests is on the money in my opinion
Karlrobert
Member
In my experience Trest, like many things, is dose dependent in regards to shut down. A lower dose used just as a base to feel good and fight lethargy had always treated me well without shutting me down hard. I've always recovered easily. Higher doses looking for big gains is another story. Either way proper pct and ancillaries on hand are a must.
SDPonce63
Member
What dosage did you run as a base of dermal?
SDPonce63
Member
Trying to get the trest combinations down. If I ran just DermaTrest would I do 1/2 a pump 2 times daily as recommended?
Also, if I did a combo of the oral and derma would I do 1/2 pump in the morning and 30mg oral before pre workout?
Karlrobert
Member
15mg/d TD trest acetate works for me as a base. Personally if I were you I'd pick one of the dry(for me anyhow) PH/DS you mentioned you had and run it like that. I wouldn't run it with another wet compound though. DMZ or msten go well with it IMO.
SDPonce63
Member
So you like MENT. Have you ever used Oral trest or DermaTrest to compare the differences?
Karlrobert
Member
I like oral trest for preworkout a lot but wouldn't run as a base because of halflife. I'm planning on trying dermatrest one day but haven't yet so I couldn't compare. Board sponsor 7 alpha ace has been good to me. I would be interested in hearing from someone who has used both for a comparison though. I like to pair it with a DHT dry compound. Seems to balance out sides although I've never been gyno prone at all so I can't speak for everyone.
SDPonce63
Member
I gotcha, I really like the suggestion HG provided. Use both DermaTrest and oral. I know to use 25mg (1 cap) before workout but I don’t know about how much of the dermal to apply
hairygrandpa
Legend
Like DonnieM said. 2 harsh orals is begging for trouble. Mainly, your appetite may suffer, besides the stress on the liver.
Personally I would do either one of the orals , M-sten for 5 weeks or DMZ for 6 weeks, together with a TD trest base and 30mg oral trest pre-workout.
I also would prolong the usage of trest to 8-10 weeks, upping dosage of the TD and drop the oral.
I guess you already bought LGD and no matter what I said, you will use it.....
Looking like that:
Msten: 8/12/12/12/12/0/0/0/0/0 (divided in 2-3 dosages x day, short HL), last dose 5 hours before bed (causes insomnia)
LGD: 10/10/10/10/10/15/15/15/15/15
TD trest: on/on/on/on/on/double/double/double/double/double (using label instructions)
oral trest: 30/30/30/30/30/0/0/0/0/0
Ancillaries:
-Tudca: 750mg ed for 6 weeks (1000mg better)
-fish oil
-taurine for back pumps
-electrolytes (especially potassium)
-Vit B6 at 400-500mg/d to curb prolactin
-others: hawthorn...saw palmetto...blah,blah
PCT
Clomid 50/50/50/25/25
AND
Nolva 40/20/20/20/20
-useless OTC Test booster (you already bought it, I guess)
-exemestane for after PCT 3x 12.5mg e3d
If you feel your nipples getting painful (a bit of sensitivity MAY be okay), DROP the trest. Do not try AI's, do not lower the dose! Drop the trest! You may have to abandon the cycle all together at that point and go right to PCT. Not following my advise will lead to TITS. Mark my words.
-Not going to discuss using a Serm on cycle to curb trest sides....
Personally I would do either one of the orals , M-sten for 5 weeks or DMZ for 6 weeks, together with a TD trest base and 30mg oral trest pre-workout.
I also would prolong the usage of trest to 8-10 weeks, upping dosage of the TD and drop the oral.
I guess you already bought LGD and no matter what I said, you will use it.....
Looking like that:
Msten: 8/12/12/12/12/0/0/0/0/0 (divided in 2-3 dosages x day, short HL), last dose 5 hours before bed (causes insomnia)
LGD: 10/10/10/10/10/15/15/15/15/15
TD trest: on/on/on/on/on/double/double/double/double/double (using label instructions)
oral trest: 30/30/30/30/30/0/0/0/0/0
Ancillaries:
-Tudca: 750mg ed for 6 weeks (1000mg better)
-fish oil
-taurine for back pumps
-electrolytes (especially potassium)
-Vit B6 at 400-500mg/d to curb prolactin
-others: hawthorn...saw palmetto...blah,blah
PCT
Clomid 50/50/50/25/25
AND
Nolva 40/20/20/20/20
-useless OTC Test booster (you already bought it, I guess)
-exemestane for after PCT 3x 12.5mg e3d
If you feel your nipples getting painful (a bit of sensitivity MAY be okay), DROP the trest. Do not try AI's, do not lower the dose! Drop the trest! You may have to abandon the cycle all together at that point and go right to PCT. Not following my advise will lead to TITS. Mark my words.
-Not going to discuss using a Serm on cycle to curb trest sides....
SDPonce63
Member
Thanks for all the help man. I don’t already have the LGD. I’m months away from this cycle, just wanted to plan something ahead of time. The TD states 1-2 pumps. On cycle with the oral trest would it be ideal to do 1 pump and oral TD before workout or 2 pumps and oral before workout?
Nac
Well-known member
If you get and decide to use the DermaTrest...dump the contents of the bottle into a tupperware container, buy a handful of 1ml oral syringes and use to draw up 1ml of product (25mg of compound) and apply to shoulder/trap/upper pec area every morning. Preferrably post-shower. Let it dry (1min max), slap on shirt and you good to go.
SDPonce63
Member
I didn’t mean 1 pump AND oral before workout. I meant like 1 pump AM 1 and then 1 oral PM before workout. Or 1 pump AM, 1 oral at workout and another pump before bed.
hairygrandpa
Legend
Most users use a syringe to apply TD trest, because every pump is inaccurate. For instance, if label says 1 pump = 1ml, use a syringe, take 1 ml and apply to skin. Use the minimum dose (1 pump / 1ml? ) for 5 weeks (or as long as you use an oral), later 1ml mornings, 1 ml before bed (double dose).
If you did not buy LGD, consider using S4. It may have some mild vision sides, but they go away later. Look up dosages and switch it out for LGD.
I would not use td trest before workouts, you sweat it out, dude. Split dosages and always use it mornings after shower, and before bed after shower.
Another thing:
Please take my dosage and compound advise seriously, do not fiddle with dosages -or skip ancillaries, because of a lack of money. Have ALL ingredients ready before starting the cycle, including PCT. ALL OF THEM. If you don't have exemestane, after PCT ends = maybe TITS. Got it?
hairygrandpa
Legend
SDPonce63
Member
10/4! No tits. Is exemstane 4 weeks?
Nac
Well-known member
Ive found 25mg is sufficient as a base with other compounds, but ultimately up to you. The oral has a half life of less than 1hr, so I would treat the two as very different in terms of dosing/function; ie in this scenario I wouldnt consider them additive.
Karlrobert
Member
Pretty much everything hairy grandpa just said ! lol. I wouldn't add the lgd into the mix like he said- Save it. The TD trest acetate works for me as a base @10-15 mg twice a day. You may be different. You could run it higher and improve gains but risk more sides. I also like to run it 2 weeks after my oral PH runs out then pct. And make sure your pct is in place before you start. Hope all goes well!
hairygrandpa
Legend
Read protocol, its for after PCT to prevent rebound. You'll need very little. Always good to have it in the fridge.
hairygrandpa
Legend
Last comment:
NUTRITION will decide the outcome.
-if strength goes up, do not ego lift. IMHO, high volume is key -not max weight.
Read about GVT (German Volume Training), IMHO the best for results on cycle.
NUTRITION will decide the outcome.
-if strength goes up, do not ego lift. IMHO, high volume is key -not max weight.
Read about GVT (German Volume Training), IMHO the best for results on cycle.