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Quick SARM and PH combo question

Scorch0062

Scorch0062

New member
So I am planning on starting a cycle of dmz 3.0 soon (the old one with msten, M1A, and dmz) and have been priming for a couple weeks with ostarine and ligandrol. When I start taking the 3.0 in a couple weeks, would there be any benefit to continuing to run the ostarine and ligandrol throughout the 4 week dmz cycle? What would be benefits and negatives of doing this? I know 3.0 is pretty strong, so I figured it alone would be strong enough, but I have enough extra osta and lig to keep taking during the cycle if needed. Or I could save it and take it some other time, what do you all think?
 
Scorch0062 said:
So I am planning on starting a cycle of dmz 3.0 soon (the old one with msten, M1A, and dmz) and have been priming for a couple weeks with ostarine and ligandrol. When I start taking the 3.0 in a couple weeks, would there be any benefit to continuing to run the ostarine and ligandrol throughout the 4 week dmz cycle? What would be benefits and negatives of doing this? I know 3.0 is pretty strong, so I figured it alone would be strong enough, but I have enough extra osta and lig to keep taking during the cycle if needed. Or I could save it and take it some other time, what do you all think?
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Negative would be lipid profile from methylated prohormone compounded with Sarms.
 
JoePaul39 said:
Negative would be lipid profile from methylated prohormone compounded with Sarms.
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Yeah that's my main concern. Dmz 3.0 is pretty rough on the lipids. So far I haven't noticed any lipid change from just the sarms though.

I had read somewhere before about compounds competing for anabolic receptors, is this possible?
 
Sam stack said:
Yk-11 competes with test receptors
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Yeah I thought I had read this somewhere.

So there is no evidence of ostarine, ligandrol, ibutamoren, 4andro, methylstenbolone, methyl1alpha, or dymethazine competing for receptors?

Thanks for all of the input guys
 
Sam stack said:
ibutamoren is hgh
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Yes it is an hgh secretagogue. I included it in there as it is part of the stack, I have no expectations of it competing with anabolic receptors, it was included more with the thought of potential adverse reactions. I guess I could have been more clear with my post.
 
Sam stack said:
your stacking all those compounds?
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Original plan was :
Weeks 1-4 - ostarine, ibutamoren, ligandrol, 4andro
Weeks 5-8 - 4andro, methylstenbolone, methyl1alpha, dymethazine

Super dmz 3.0 provides 10mg msten, 10mg dmz, and 10mg M1A taken twice daily. I've ran super dmz 3.0 before with good results, but I did not have a test base last time (the 4andro serves as that purpose this go round) and I was extremely lethargic.

The point of the post was to see if I should keep the sarms in during weeks 5-8, what would the benefits and dangers be of doing this. Like I said, originally I planned on dropping the sarms when I start the dmz 3.0, and saving what I have left to use as a primer for a future cycle.
 
I'd dump the sarms. Less is more and you have more than enough with the DMZ 3.0. Sarms suck anyhow...I'd rather run creatine.
 
drop the ostarine and run lgd and 4 andro for the full 8 weeks. Save ostarine for in between large cycles
 
Ostarine is liver toxyc. Dump it.
Lgd 8 weeks. Doesnt make sense to take less than that.

All anabolics will have an effect on your lipids. Don't sweat about it. They will go to normal when off cycle.
 
Jinsun said:
Ostarine is liver toxyc. Dump it.
Lgd 8 weeks. Doesnt make sense to take less than that.

All anabolics will have an effect on your lipids. Don't sweat about it. They will go to normal when off cycle.
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Well the main reason I did the osta and lgd was to prime my receptors for when I start the super dmz. I have already preportioned my osta and lgd into capsules at a lab I was interning at (I bought bulk powder). So I can't stop one without stopping the other. Also, I had my liver enzymes tested on Friday (which is about 2 weeks in to the cycle) and my liver enzymes came back normal (mid 20s on both enzymes).

So from what I've gathered from the posts here, I should continue with my original plan and stop taking the sarms when I start the super dmz, which is sensible because it is a strong stack by itself.

Which leads me to my followup. I will have 30 days worth of osta and lgd left after this cycle. I also just got in some s23. So in, I guess 4-6 months, what would be the best way to run my remaining compounds? I was thinking
Weeks 1-4: s23 and 4andro
Weeks 5-8: s23, osta, lgd, and 4andro

Does this seem reasonable when looking at the amounts I have left of each compound? Also, I bought the s23 on kind of a whim when I saw a good sale, so I don't really know much about its potency. How does it compare to prohormones like msten or dmz?

One other note (sorry I know this post is extremely long), my last blood test showed high TSH at 8.07 (normal free t4) as well as high ldl cholesterol at 181. Does anyone have any thoughts as to the effects these compounds may have on these values? As well as any advice for diet / nutrition to help bring these values to normal.

Thanks for all of the help guys.
 
Brenwad said:
Why Oh why Oh why??! Really!

Inject some test.
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I can't do needles. Not only have I been stuck with needles by doctors so many times that I have scarring on my veins, but most of my veins have collapsed due to this. I've gone through two years of chemotherapy, getting stuck literally almost every day. So I have plenty of scarring and many of my veins are collapsed. I honestly don't want to aggravate the situation.

Also, drug addiction is very prevalent in my family. I, myself, have battled drug addiction for most of my adult life. One line that I have always set for myself is that I will never inject anything into myself. I find it a slippery slope, and I am honestly afraid that if I start injecting test, then that puts me, possibly, one step closer to following in the footsteps of everyone else in my family. My self control is not perfect and I find that I spiral very easily.

I know this is a long-winded explanation, but it is something I have dealt with and thought about for a long time in my life. From growing up as a kid with needles laying around on the floor all the way to seeing my friends die from overdoses, the significance of injecting ANYTHING has been a line I will not cross for as long as I can remember.

I know that almost all of these compounds are more harmful to the body than just injecting test. I understand and truly appreciate your concern for my well-being, but I just can't do it.
 
Jinsun said:
Ostarine is liver toxyc. Dump it.
Lgd 8 weeks. Doesnt make sense to take less than that.

All anabolics will have an effect on your lipids. Don't sweat about it. They will go to normal when off cycle.
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So will your liver enzymes ;)
 
Scorch0062 said:
So I am planning on starting a cycle of dmz 3.0 soon (the old one with msten, M1A, and dmz) and have been priming for a couple weeks with ostarine and ligandrol. When I start taking the 3.0 in a couple weeks, would there be any benefit to continuing to run the ostarine and ligandrol throughout the 4 week dmz cycle? What would be benefits and negatives of doing this? I know 3.0 is pretty strong, so I figured it alone would be strong enough, but I have enough extra osta and lig to keep taking during the cycle if needed. Or I could save it and take it some other time, what do you all think?
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Yeah, I agree you should drop the "SARMS" while taking this. You've chosen one of the harshest stacks out there.
Make sure you are running a cycle assist (like CEL, or Arimacare Pro) along with plenty of TUDCA. And have a SERM for PCT. And I would definitely have an AI on hand.

(I didn't just copy and paste this, or give it off the cuff....it's solid advice for this stack bro).

Be safe...keep an eye in stuff...like BP.
 
Yeah this is my second time running 3.0. I've ran 2.0 twice before as well, and I've also ran M1A solo.

I have blockade on hand for cycle support, still need to pick up the Tudca. Joyful joints to take care of my knees and elbows. Just received a couple bottles of both fish oil and multivitamins, so I shouldn't run out of those anytime soon. Plenty of nolva on hand. Estro strike 2 on hand in case I need it. Trojan pct by Sparta nutrition and mega test by primeval labs for the peace of mind when I come off. And of course the 4andro and dermacrine to use as a test base.

Wondering if I should wait for estrogen problems before taking estro strike, or just go ahead and start it at day 1 so that the 4andro and dermacrine don't aromatize?

The Trojan pct has arimistane in it so I shouldn't need the estro strike post cycle.
 
Scorch0062 said:
Yeah this is my second time running 3.0. I've ran 2.0 twice before as well, and I've also ran M1A solo.

I have blockade on hand for cycle support, still need to pick up the Tudca. Joyful joints to take care of my knees and elbows. Just received a couple bottles of both fish oil and multivitamins, so I shouldn't run out of those anytime soon. Plenty of nolva on hand. Estro strike 2 on hand in case I need it. Trojan pct by Sparta nutrition and mega test by primeval labs for the peace of mind when I come off. And of course the 4andro and dermacrine to use as a test base.

Wondering if I should wait for estrogen problems before taking estro strike, or just go ahead and start it at day 1 so that the 4andro and dermacrine don't aromatize?

The Trojan pct has arimistane in it so I shouldn't need the estro strike post cycle.
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Arimistane doesn't have proven anti Estrogen ability.
You could just wait until needed for the AI in my opinion, but anything less than Research Chemical or Pharma AI MAY not cut it if you end up needing one. Will you be ok on this cycle? Probably, but I prefer to keep a (non over the counter) AI on hand, in case of emergencies.

Glad to see you are taking precautions!!
 
I have three bottles of Nolvadex on hand for just in case something stronger is needed. I have always had great results with arimistane in the past at alleviating symptoms on cycle (of course I would never fully rely on it post cycle).

I know it hasn't been shown to inhibit aromatase in actual humans, but it has been tested on human placental microsomes and found to be effective at inhibiting aromatase.
(will post link in next comment, I am one post shy of the forum rules)

So this does give some basis to the claim that it can help prevent aromatization.

Is there anything else that I could possibly be overlooking? I am usually super meticulous about having everything planned out and ready, but I can never shake the feeling I'm forgetting something!
 
Tests on active sites of aromatase with arimistane and analogs.

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What is your opinion on eucheuma cottonii extract? It's been shown to be more powerful than tamoxifen with less side effects. Just stumbled upon it, I'm not relying on it in any form for this cycle.
 
When taking strong hormones its best to have strong AI's and SERMS for on cycle and PCT.
 
RickyBlobby said:
When taking strong hormones its best to have strong AI's and SERMS for on cycle and PCT.
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Yes I have 3 months worth of nolva, which is more than enough for on cycle if needed and post cycle with some left over. The AI I have on hand is estro strike 2.0, which though over the counter is, in my opinion and experience, very effective in halting estrogen. Are there any AIs that you all would recommend? I still have plenty of time before my scheduled start time on the cycle.
 
Exemestane is my go to AI
 
Sam stack said:
You inject test in your muscles not your veins
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Yeah I realized that after the post �� shows you how much I know about injectables. Everyone I have ever been around has injected drugs, so I didn't even think about it being different.

This still doesn't change the fact that I just have a strong aversion to sticking myself with a needle. :/

Believe me, if I thought I had the self control to not start injecting drugs too, I would be hopping on to the tren wagon. But as it stands, I want nothing to do with needles unless it is in a controlled setting done by a professional.
 
Well that's kinda funny isn't it... You don't want to inject bc of negative social connotations that you've created in your head and thus implying to your self that you are doing a good thing by not injecting. Ironically it's quite the opposite. All this prohormones, sarms and OTC cycle support is all some serious "bro" stuff. Especially the cycle support stuff. The PH's will be a lot more taxing on your liver and on your lipids. Let's say you switch this stack with 500mg test and 400mg EQ or 400mg 1-test. Both will probably blow your cycle out the water (especially the 1-test option) and it will be cheaper, you wont tax your liver at all and your lipids wont get tanked so much (if you care about lipids, I don't really).

Also by not buying some stupid over priced bro cycle support you will save on $$$. All you need is aromasin for e2 on cycle and a serm for pct. With the money you saved buy Mk677 and cjc1295dac and start using it in pct. This way it's not that you will struggle with keeping the gains but they will still keep on coming.

I don't understand why people buy serms and Ai's diluted in water? You've got plenty of trusted UGL's that provide quality stuff in normal pill form.

And one last thing: 4andro is chit :) you need to take a lot of it in order to have normal T, E2 and DHT levels. And you need to be taking it thought the day ALL THE TIME.

Maybe you should look at it this way: all this PH and asociated stuff is uneducated bro stuff. If you will pin and create a proper cycle you are actually taking the more mature, more healthy option and thus being more safe overall.
 
Jinsun said:
Well that's kinda funny isn't it... You don't want to inject bc of negative social connotations that you've created in your head and thus implying to your self that you are doing a good thing by not injecting. Ironically it's quite the opposite. All this prohormones, sarms and OTC cycle support is all some serious "bro" stuff. Especially the cycle support stuff. The PH's will be a lot more taxing on your liver and on your lipids. Let's say you switch this stack with 500mg test and 400mg EQ or 400mg 1-test. Both will probably blow your cycle out the water (especially the 1-test option) and it will be cheaper, you wont tax your liver at all and your lipids wont get tanked so much (if you care about lipids, I don't really).

Also by not buying some stupid over priced bro cycle support you will save on $$$. All you need is aromasin for e2 on cycle and a serm for pct. With the money you saved buy Mk677 and cjc1295dac and start using it in pct. This way it's not that you will struggle with keeping the gains but they will still keep on coming.

I don't understand why people buy serms and Ai's diluted in water? You've got plenty of trusted UGL's that provide quality stuff in normal pill form.

And one last thing: 4andro is chit :) you need to take a lot of it in order to have normal T, E2 and DHT levels. And you need to be taking it thought the day ALL THE TIME.

Maybe you should look at it this way: all this PH and asociated stuff is uneducated bro stuff. If you will pin and create a proper cycle you are actually taking the more mature, more healthy option and thus being more safe overall.
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I don't care about social connotations, at all. I think you completely missed the point of what I was trying to say.

If all you are going to do is try and change my aversion to pinning, then please do not post again in my thread.

As stated before, I know the benefits of pinning and the numerous downsides to prohormones and sarms. You must not understand that some people, through differing life experiences, have a different view on pinning than you do, and it has nothing to do with "negative social connotations."

I had basic questions, and they were answered. More questions arose due to valuable inquiries and insights from members of this board, and they were kind enough to advise me on those matters as well.

I appreciate your concern for my well being and health, however, the attitude in which you expressed these concerns is quite frankly rude, and is not needed or wanted in this thread.
 
Scorch0062 said:
I don't care about social connotations, at all. I think you completely missed the point of what I was trying to say.
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I've read what you said and understood why you are against it. That's what I meant by social connotations. What else would you call them? Life experience, mental projections, cultural knowledge and experience, etc. It's all one big supp, and we can't distinguish between them bc they can not be taken apart and distinguished separately. We perceive reality through signs and their meanings (signified's) and the way they construct meaning through representation. It's all cultural based as signs are a product of the culture. And thus, for example; you seeing junkies ruin their life's with needles is a socio-cultural experience. As is all your rationalisation and emotional processing regarding it in the present. This is why I said social connotations. (this is my field of study/occupation btw)

Wasn't trying to be rude but I was writing in a hurry though... I don't think I got the message across haha. Now that you know I wasn't trying to be rude, you might try re-thinking the first part of my previous post in a non negative way, if you wish to discuss. Otherwise just forget it, I wont hold it against you either way.
 
Scorch0062 said:
I don't care about social connotations, at all. I think you completely missed the point of what I was trying to say.

If all you are going to do is try and change my aversion to pinning, then please do not post again in my thread.

As stated before, I know the benefits of pinning and the numerous downsides to prohormones and sarms. You must not understand that some people, through differing life experiences, have a different view on pinning than you do, and it has nothing to do with "negative social connotations."

I had basic questions, and they were answered. More questions arose due to valuable inquiries and insights from members of this board, and they were kind enough to advise me on those matters as well.

I appreciate your concern for my well being and health, however, the attitude in which you expressed these concerns is quite frankly rude, and is not needed or wanted in this thread.
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Brother, you aren't the first person that I've talked to that won't pin...for the same reason.

If you know that you should not mess with needles...then I'm glad that you don't.
 
I see, thank you for clarifying. I do not wish to discuss pinning any further. I know that someday, I will likely go down that route. But as for now, I have very strong mental reservations about anything involving needles and do not wish to take that route.

I am sure when I turn 30, I'll be back on here asking you for help in constructing my first cycle ��, but until that day (if it ever happens), let's try and stay at the topic on hand.
 
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