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The New Product Release Thread

I use anything that works ............
 
Extremely proud and excited to release this little guy. It's been in the works for sometime and the end result has proven well worth the wait! The design is a daprture from most of the VL products, but I feel it is one that will appeal to most everyone :)

Vicious Labs is proud to present its newest addition to the preworkout category, Daft Pump! This stimulant-free, yet exceptionally potent, pump product allows for greater versatility to all user(name)s and game styles. Taken alone or combined with a complimentary stimulant, Daft Pump is the proverbial cheat code to put your training on "God mode."

Blood doesn't just stop in the muscles, so we jimmied up Daft Pump with key cognitive enhancers to capitalize on improved oxygenation of the brain. Rhodiola Rosea, Alpha GPC, and Huperzine A accompany the extensive menu of vasodilators to provide a mind-muscle connection that is sure to deliver a high score.

No throwback would be complete without a retro taste to match. Remember mixing the slushee flavors at the arcade as a kid? Derazzed is that same mouth-watering mix of Cherry & Blue Razzberry.

Hit Player 2 on Daft Pump to unlock a series of Power Tokens to upgrade your body with the weapons needed to blast away even the most impregnable of iron challenges.

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Use code "bloodlord" to save 10% on your order total!

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looks not bad in regards of components used but Citrulline is heavily underdosed, Glycerol + Alpha GPC and also the Choline are underdosed as well. I think Beet Root should be double the dose as well and also the Rhodiola is maybe not enough but here im not sure. (and and you dont say for which substances the Rhodiola is extracted for)

why put in 10 ingredients if half of them are underdosed instead of using 6 or 7 and put in fully clinical doses?
will never understand these product designers, sorry, but i think we are allowed to speak the truth here

edit: something positive - the label looks dope, like all of your labels.
 
iamyourfather said:
looks not bad in regards of components used but Citrulline is heavily underdosed, Glycerol + Alpha GPC and also the Choline are underdosed as well.

why put in 10 ingredients if half of them are underdosed instead of using 6 or 7 and put in fully clinical doses?
will never understand these product designers, sorry, but i think we are allowed to speak the truth here
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Good formulators go for synergy over dosing what people read in a study on a forum or what is parroted. Personally I would dose a scoop and half or 2 but I’m also 6’4 250 atm and always need a higher dose of things lol. But when I cut down to 225 products like that are perfectly dosed for me and deliver crazy pumps.
 
if there is not data to prove the synergy of any underdosed products in combination then, sorry, its completely retarded to sell something just because it may has a synergy instead of using doses that are PROVEN to be effective.

there are are a few companies that always use clinical doses, for a good reason.

nice try, but thats a very low argument to sell underdosed products
 
If people used the individual clinical testing doses of all of the ingredients in multi formulation products the serving size would be about 40 scoops, it's not always about just going on examine .com and throwing together formulations based off study's, I would imagine the people who made this tested various doses and how the Individual ingredients worked together to enhance each other's effects until they got what they were looking for.
 
Citrullin for example wont do aynthing at this dose. Doesnt matter if you stack it with the other ingredients, you need at least double as much for the ergogenic effects.

but i wont discuss any further. everyone who thinks about that objective will come to the same conclusion. so dont hesitate to keep buying underdosed products if you want to support the companies to sell these.

i will do the opposite and support the companies who sell fully dosed products and wont stop calling sh1t formulations as sh1t formulations. to say „the product designers thought something while creating their products“ is also extremely naive; check the market and 95% of the existing products and you will se that only very few companies actually think something while formulating new products because there are WAY more sh1t products than good ones.
 
ZachHXx said:
Vicious Labs never has been, and never will be a company to produce "sh1t" products. Period. ZOO doesn't just pick random ingredients and throw them together. He USES these supplements religiously and is in better shape than 90% of the people on this site. So GTFO with your clinical doses argument and try the product before you bash its effectiveness.
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I dont want to be rude or anything but since the product is named as "PUMP" I really see no point using just 2.5g citrulline Malate at all. Even 2.5g L Citrulline would be low dose for N.O. boost. And this is not broscience but real fact.
 
ZachHXx said:
Vicious Labs never has been, and never will be a company to produce "sh1t" products. Period. ZOO doesn't just pick random ingredients and throw them together. He USES these supplements religiously and is in better shape than 90% of the people on this site. So GTFO with your clinical doses argument and try the product before you bash its effectiveness.
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LOL how blind fanboys can be, interesting, very interesting but also a little bit sad at the same time

and my all time favourite argument from people without real facts - the one with the biggest biceps knows the most ;-)
 
ZachHXx said:
I respect that. And I can definitely see your point. Because it's a valid point. But all you can do is try it for yourself, and then make the verdict.
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Please dont get me wrong :) I never said the product does not work. I do believe it does. I just mean formula would be totaly different if Citrulline Malate was changed with Vaso6 or nitrates .
 
BloodManor said:
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^^ even other ingredients are 100% open
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I currently have NutraBio’s Classic Whey which is whey protein concentrate as opposed to the label you posted of their isolate product. I also noticed the other ingredients were open label.

Unfortunately, I am not impressed with the product. It is horrendous to mix...anyone who has seen my OL protein review video will know that I give my powders a pretty good ride. It still comes out with unmixed powder and the consistency is very gelatinous. I wish I had just ordered Cannibal Kraken instead as I really enjoyed my 2 tubs of that...very high quality! This NutraBio tub will be tough to go through. The Chocolate Milkshake flavor is lacking as well..
thebigt said:
I was thinking the same thing!!! UNIVERSAL has never been one of my top brands, but I expected more than this!!!
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What? Universal Nutrition is my “go to” supplement company. You don’t know what you are missing! ;)
 
Ricky10 said:
I currently have NutraBio’s Classic Whey which is whey protein concentrate as opposed to the label you posted of their isolate product. I also noticed the other ingredients were open label.

Unfortunately, I am not impressed with the product. It is horrendous to mix...anyone who has seen my OL protein review video will know that I give my powders a pretty good ride. It still comes out with unmixed powder and the consistency is very gelatinous. I wish I had just ordered Cannibal Kraken instead as I really enjoyed my 2 tubs of that...very high quality! This NutraBio tub will be tough to go through. The Chocolate Milkshake flavor is lacking as well..

What? Universal Nutrition is my “go to” supplement company. You don’t know what you are missing! ;)
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I agree nutrabio mixabilty is not the best flavors i have tried I enjoyed though but never had there chocolate . And can never go wrong with cannibal Kraken - flavors and mixabilty is top notch
 
Ricky10 said:
I currently have NutraBio’s Classic Whey which is whey protein concentrate as opposed to the label you posted of their isolate product. I also noticed the other ingredients were open label.

Unfortunately, I am not impressed with the product. It is horrendous to mix...anyone who has seen my OL protein review video will know that I give my powders a pretty good ride. It still comes out with unmixed powder and the consistency is very gelatinous. I wish I had just ordered Cannibal Kraken instead as I really enjoyed my 2 tubs of that...very high quality! This NutraBio tub will be tough to go through. The Chocolate Milkshake flavor is lacking as well..

What? Universal Nutrition is my “go to” supplement company. You don’t know what you are missing! ;)
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I used their protein once as well and it never mixed well, at all. It was the lemon merguine, good, but an odd aftertaste
 
Beet roots contain a ton of nitrates which are readily converted by gut and saliva bacteria to nitrites that rapidly increase NO levels.. while citrulline does also increase NO it has to undergo a few steps to get there.. the 2:1 ratio is also cool cause that's 2 parts l-citrulline to 1 part malic acid..the reason for malic acid is just absorbtion enhancement for the citrulline.. beet nitrates have close to 100% bioavailability.. one could draw a reasonable conclusion that the beet powder kick-starts the NO levels so when the citrulline gets into swing it would only serve to drive them higher.. and that's just 2 examples of the synergy there..
 
D3x said:
Beet roots contain a ton of nitrates which are readily converted by gut and saliva bacteria to nitrites that rapidly increase NO levels.. while citrulline does also increase NO it has to undergo a few steps to get there.. the 2:1 ratio is also cool cause that's 2 parts l-citrulline to 1 part malic acid..the reason for malic acid is just absorbtion enhancement for the citrulline.. beet nitrates have close to 100% bioavailability.. one could draw a reasonable conclusion that the beet powder kick-starts the NO levels so when the citrulline gets into swing it would only serve to drive them higher.. and that's just 2 examples of the synergy there..
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Most beet root is standardized around 1.5-3% nitrates
 
CATdiesel76 said:
Most beet root is standardized around 1.5-3% nitrates
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If that. If they're not listing it being standardized for nitrates, or even saying that it's an extract, it's likely just beet root powder, which is exactly what that label says, and probably has less than 1% nitrates. Given that the effective dose of nitrates is ~400mg of actual nitrate, this 500mg of powder is giving maybe 5mg nitrates (probably less), which is 1.25% of the effective dose.

Is the rhodiola an extract? If so, what is it standardized to?

Also, 500mcg huperzine? Why? That's a massive dose. 200mcg is plenty, and that's without any extra choline, and more isn't always better when it comes to this sort of thing.
iamyourfather said:
looks not bad in regards of components used but Citrulline is heavily underdosed, Glycerol + Alpha GPC and also the Choline are underdosed as well. I think Beet Root should be double the dose as well and also the Rhodiola is maybe not enough but here im not sure. (and and you dont say for which substances the Rhodiola is extracted for)

why put in 10 ingredients if half of them are underdosed instead of using 6 or 7 and put in fully clinical doses?
will never understand these product designers, sorry, but i think we are allowed to speak the truth here

edit: something positive - the label looks dope, like all of your labels.
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The rhodiola would be sufficient if it's standardized for 3% rosavin and at least 1% salidroside, but it doesn't even say extract, so I'm not sure of that. Also, the beetroot would have to be far more than doubled, as I explained earlier in this post. You'd need an astronomical dose of beet root powder to get a full, effective dose of nitrates. But beet root powder can be used to naturally color products, so there's that. :)
 
D3x said:
Beet roots contain a ton of nitrates which are readily converted by gut and saliva bacteria to nitrites that rapidly increase NO levels.. while citrulline does also increase NO it has to undergo a few steps to get there.. the 2:1 ratio is also cool cause that's 2 parts l-citrulline to 1 part malic acid..the reason for malic acid is just absorbtion enhancement for the citrulline.. beet nitrates have close to 100% bioavailability.. one could draw a reasonable conclusion that the beet powder kick-starts the NO levels so when the citrulline gets into swing it would only serve to drive them higher.. and that's just 2 examples of the synergy there..
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You do know that the study you messaged me confirms that the HIGHEST nitrate content of beet root powders was ~5%. That means that 500mg of powder has AT MOST 25mg nitrates, or 1/8 of the effective 400mg dose.
 
"Just try it, BRO"

"Synergy"

"Absorption"

Just one element is missing from this discussion:

"Mouthfeel"

Reveal thyself mate.
 
While I do not possess any studies to support this "synergy theory," I design these products based on what I would want to use. As Zach said, I use my products religiously. That is not to say that I am a brilliant formulator; however, my personal experience in testing the product showed that the combinative effect of the formula proved effective in greater vasodilation and focus. Anecdotal evidence at best, sure, but valid for consideration nonetheless. A couple of the early recipients from last week have had positive experiences as well. I am, of course, always open to consumer feedback for revisions made in later product interactions.

Best,
ZOO
 
LLN said:
"Just try it, BRO"

"Synergy"

"Absorption"

Just one element is missing from this discussion:

"Mouthfeel"

Reveal thyself mate.
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haha i love it, people getting angry at clinically dosed ingredients and throwing their support 100% behind unproven synergy. Only planned sales is by telling people to buy it to prove it doesn't work? interesting strategy.

ZOO said:
While I do not possess any studies to support this "synergy theory," I design these products based on what I would want to use. As Zach said, I use my products religiously. That is not to say that I am a brilliant formulator; however, my personal experience in testing the product showed that the combinative effect of the formula proved effective in greater vasodilation and focus. Anecdotal evidence at best, sure, but valid for consideration nonetheless. A couple of the early recipients from last week have had positive experiences as well. I am, of course, always open to consumer feedback for revisions made in later product interactions.

Best,
ZOO
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The problem with that statement mate is N=1. designing products for the masses just because they work on you doesn't make any sense. Nothing will work the same for everyone, this is why we rely on research and therapeutic guidelines, to see what doses of something "works" for the majority of people.

Is your product designed to target you, or everyone else in the world?

Could you actually rationalize your doses, other than imaginary/unproven synergy or saying "it worked"? This is an issue that you don't have when you are using clinically proven doses. Given how the preworkout market is now (non-stim included) the standard is definitely higher for evidence based products. That said you will sell, you will just likely receive criticism from people who actually know the supplement market.
 
I will vouch for ZOO and say I’ve never tried a product of his that I was not impressed with. I agree with a lot of you and say the formula was not my favorite on paper. I have also tried many products that looked good on paper but sucked. Conqu3r unleashed comes to mind for me. Products that claimed to have 3.2 grams of BA and I wouldn’t feel a single tingle, etc. So with that In mind think everyone has a right to question labels. I like some things about daft pump such as the agmantine and hydromax dosing with the added nootropics. I am not pleased with the citrulline content though. However, like I said Zoo has never released a product I didn’t enjoy. That and there are at least 30 servings compared to the usual 20 that are standard today.
 
I think it's time for someone to try this and report back !!
 
Think ZOO needs to send out a few samples to Uncle Danes and some of the other guys around here.
 
ZOO said:
While I do not possess any studies to support this "synergy theory," I design these products based on what I would want to use. As Zach said, I use my products religiously. That is not to say that I am a brilliant formulator; however, my personal experience in testing the product showed that the combinative effect of the formula proved effective in greater vasodilation and focus. Anecdotal evidence at best, sure, but valid for consideration nonetheless. A couple of the early recipients from last week have had positive experiences as well. I am, of course, always open to consumer feedback for revisions made in later product interactions.

Best,
ZOO
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I have to admire your diplomacy!!!

props given for grace under pressure...
 
ZOO said:
While I do not possess any studies to support this "synergy theory," I design these products based on what I would want to use. As Zach said, I use my products religiously. That is not to say that I am a brilliant formulator; however, my personal experience in testing the product showed that the combinative effect of the formula proved effective in greater vasodilation and focus. Anecdotal evidence at best, sure, but valid for consideration nonetheless. A couple of the early recipients from last week have had positive experiences as well. I am, of course, always open to consumer feedback for revisions made in later product interactions.

Best,
ZOO
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Is that 500mcg huperzine 500mcg of actual huperzine or 500mcg of some percent of huperzine (X% huperzine)? 500mcg is a massive bolus dose, and I don’t necessarily mean that in a good way. That’s higher than the highest single dose I’ve seen in any study (400mcg), and that was for cognitive impairment, not healthy subjects. I’m honestly courious as to your reasoning/logic for that dose. Thanks.
 
Zoo, send me a sample or 2 I have a hard time getting a pump, if it works at all for me it should be magic for these younger lifters!!
 
rtmilburn said:
Guys let's not get greedy. He was nice and sent out some sample. We shouldn't all ask. It's unrealistic and makes him not to want to do this ever again.
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I didn’t see that he already sent some out...my bad..
I was just offering my services if he was looking for people who were interested
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Is that 500mcg huperzine 500mcg of actual huperzine or 500mcg of some percent of huperzine (X% huperzine)? 500mcg is a massive bolus dose, and I don’t necessarily mean that in a good way. That’s higher than the highest single dose I’ve seen in any study (400mcg), and that was for cognitive impairment, not healthy subjects. I’m honestly courious as to your reasoning/logic for that dose. Thanks.
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can confirm too much huperzine is not a good feeling, light headed, pale, vomitin... experimented with it a bit years ago, will not be taking big doses ever again lol.

I would think this is likely an extract, or at least hope so for a formula most people will be taking more than 1 scoop of. (regardless of the warning listed)
 
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