FIRST TIME AAS Cycle Layout + Full Log - Ostarine + Natural Test Booster

[gagernicholas]

Ostarine + Natty supplement stack w/ mini PCT first time FULL LOG.

To begin, this log will include all of the effects experiences; gains, losses, general progress, mental clarity, how it affects my employment during the day, and sleep logs.

I am a long-time lurker, and this is my first post, so please let me know how I can improve for you all!

General Information:

25yo
6’”1 182 equal to or less than 14.5 BF (Nutrition Shop Reading)
Training 6 years (always played sports, never stopped lifting unless illness or surgery, etc.
Tracking calories, carbs and protein intake:

3500 - 4000 calories/220g of protein daily

Goal - Break plateaus whilst losing fat and gaining lean muscle mass; hoping to gain more weight nearing the end of the cycle whilst lowering BF% range in the 12-13%.

PLAN/STACK

Supplements Misc:
ON Whey Protein, ON Casein Protein, Fish Oil, X-Gels, Inhibit-E, CEL M Test, Ostarine

2 1200 fish oil AM
X-gels as instructed on label
Inhibit-e as instructed on label
Cel-M Test as instructed on label
Ostarine:
Weeks 1-8: Ostarine @ 25mg daily, one dose in AM due to half life properties
Weeks 8-10: Ostarine @ 15mg daily, one dose in AM
PCT
Weeks 10 - 15:
Continue Fish Oil, X-Gels, Inhibit-E (twice daily, opposed to once daily) CEL M Test as instructed
*Clomid 25/12.5/12.5/12.5/5


** Note, I may drop the above listed natty supplements and add cardarine to the mix, instead. (Let me know your thoughts). I also have a bottle of S4 on hand, but do not intend to use it, unless your input and anecdotal evidence sways me to.
** Note, cycle support will be taken throughout the entirety of the 10 week week cycle on, and subsequently throughout the 5 week PCT.
**Note, Aromasin on hand, just in case inhibit-e isn’t cutting it, but Osta has shown to suppress by roughly 5%, give or take, so I don't think it will be necessary.

Do you guys see anything wrong with this stack? Any advice appreciated; I have seen results on similar all natty stacks, and trying to dip my feet in with a SARM cycle.

Please, any tips, advice and constructive criticism is welcomed; please no flaming; I am here to do this right.

 

[gagernicholas]

Forgot to mention, firs time posting a legitimate plan! I am very excited to see what the community here has to offer; after years of lurking, I absolutely love the culture. Thanks in advance to all and any who take interest.

 

[gagernicholas]

Bump;

This, to me, looks like the safest way to go, but again, no AAS experience prior, just natural stacks.

Looking for any confirmation on my plan and findings.

Regards,

Nick

 

[Charlesw617]

You have everything in order, but I wouldn't bother taking the test booster while on cycle, you'll be suppressed and depending on how low your test is now, you'll either barley notice it or hate life during the cycle due to your natural test taking a big hit. The only thing that test booster will help with is libido if you have any issues, but otherwise save it for your pct.

Also depending on low your test gets you might start to get lethargic and feeling sluggish. So be aware of that as well.

The Inhibit E is good to have on hand, if you're prone to gyno and or retain a lot of water, estrogen isn't a bad thing we need that for building too. So theirs nothing wrong with it, but just try and be very aware of your body during your cycle if your estrogen gets to low.

I personally just finished my pct after 8 weeks of 15mg of lgd4033, 30mg of mk677, 10mg of GW501516 and 1500mg of arachidonic acid. I was lethargic during week 3, but I powered through and wished I had test base. But I didn't get any real side effects until my 2nd week of my pct when my nipples were getting sensitive. But 12.5 mg of Aromsin every 3 days knocked that right out.

 

[elo76]

I would opt for going 25mg the whole way through. Add in 1000mg of EpiAndro for a base. Drop all natty supps and save for post cycle. Osta helps preserve muscle on a cut. I wouldn't expect too much as far as mass gains go out of this.

 

[gagernicholas]

Charles,

I figured the natural booster would help me with the sluggishness during cycle, and I planned to run it through with PCT.

Is this not correct? I also wanted something to keep my libido up, but I assume you're saying the inhibit-e should be a good enough AI and on cycle-support to help with lethargy, any sort of estro issues, etc.

So, signs of low estrogen can typically be found with low libido and low energy levels, correct? I suppose I can lower the inhibit-e to a full serving EOD, if I don't show any signs of low estro.

Just curious, why not run the natural test booster during and after? I figured this could help with the 5% suppression.

Also, maybe I will take out the booster and use it for PCT while replacing it on cycle with Cardarine. I hear that the Cardarine and Ostarine combo is unreal.

Regards,

Nick

 

[gagernicholas]

I have done some reading on EpiAndro. Why would you consider this a better base than inhibit-e throughout cycle?

Thank you,

Nick

 

[Charlesw617]

Charles,

I figured the natural booster would help me with the sluggishness during cycle, and I planned to run it through with PCT.

Is this not correct? I also wanted something to keep my libido up, but I assume you're saying the inhibit-e should be a good enough AI and on cycle-support to help with lethargy, any sort of estro issues, etc.

So, signs of low estrogen can typically be found with low libido and low energy levels, correct? I suppose I can lower the inhibit-e to a full serving EOD, if I don't show any signs of low estro.

Just curious, why not run the natural test booster during and after? I figured this could help with the 5% suppression.

Also, maybe I will take out the booster and use it for PCT while replacing it on cycle with Cardarine. I hear that the Cardarine and Ostarine combo is unreal.

Regards,

Nick

A natural test booster wont be enough and no test booster could ever replace a real test base, a test booster will give your body what it needs to create its own test which wont be much especially since you're going to be suppressing your LH. But epiandro, 4andro or dermacrine (a topical DHEA) are good options for a test base. Here's a copy and paste

Dermacrine or Topical DHEA – This is best used if you simply want to use a topical product (some people like rubbing themselves), or if you have previous experience with DHEA and experience the cognitive benefit, and feeling of well-being it provides some users. Overall it is the least effective “test base”.

4-AD (4-DHEA) – 4-AD is a two step prohormone that converts to actual testosterone. The problem with 4-AD is that at some point it causes a negative feedback loop (the body recognizes increased levels of testosterone) and begins aromatizing to estrogen at a greater degree. That means there is a proverbial ceiling on how much you can increase testosterone. In my years of use, and extensive experience with 4-AD, I believe you can replace endogenous testosterone to about 25-50% of your normal levels. That means you won’t get a “testosterone high” but it can certainly help maintain your libido, energy, and decrease or limit lethargy.

Stano (epiandrosterone and/or androsterone) – This a prohormone to dyhydrotestosterone (DHT). Another major metabolite of its use is an aromatase inhibitor. Unlike 4-AD, stano will be very dry, and it will lower estrogens to a mild degree. This is greater for avoiding gyno. It also provides users fairly reasonable levels of energy, and some report fat loss benefits (probably just lowered water retention). Again stano, like 4-AD, is not going to result in supraphysiological levels of testosterone, so it will not result in greater on cycle gains, but it will help mitigate some of the previously mentioned side effects.Note – An extremely good stack (for a test base) is a combination of both 4-AD and Stano. It attacks the steroidogenic pathway on both sides of the pendulum.

Now if you wanna use a test booster for libido... sure you can do that, but a test base will have you covered on that too, now for all we know you could be genetic beast and not feel any issues AT ALL but since this is your first cycle, better safe than sorry.

Signs of low estrogen can be dry skin, mood swings, fatigue, low desire for sex, joint pain, etc. So with that said some would say to save the Inhibit-E for pct, others would take it on cycle... without a blood test theirs no way of knowing. So keep it on hand if you begin to feel any of those symptoms, but use the aromasin if serious symptoms pop up, like sensitive nipples.

Suppression is different in everybody so that 5%... forget about it, also elo76 is right just do 25mg from start to finish.

Cardarine can go with anything, I used it on my cycle. I thought it would be enough to fight the lethargy... nope lol, but it did keep me from passing out too early in the day and helped me stay a bit leaner.

 

[Whisky]

I have done some reading on EpiAndro. Why would you consider this a better base than inhibit-e throughout cycle?

Thank you,

Nick

Hey bro, inhibit e isn’t a base.....

Personally I wouldn’t bother with inhibit-e at all on this cycle.

Every else looks solid although the test booster on cycle won’t do much imo

I like GW but research it fully and make your own mind up on whether you are happy to include....

 

[gagernicholas]

Right on, brother!

Appreciate the research.

I think I'll stack the cardarine and ostarina with an on cycle support (bp, liver function, etc.), save the aromasin and inhibit-e for signs of gyno, then use the clomid as previously stated alongside the natural booster and inhibit-e.

Regards,

Nick

 

[gagernicholas]

Funny, I have some 1-andro laying around somewhere.

Too bad I didn't purchase the 4.

Oh well.

 

[Charlesw617]

Right on, brother!

Appreciate the research.

I think I'll stack the cardarine and ostarina with an on cycle support (bp, liver function, etc.), save the aromasin and inhibit-e for signs of gyno, then use the clomid as previously stated alongside the natural booster and inhibit-e.

Regards,

Nick

Getting the right dosage right for your test base is just going to based on how you feel, keep in mind some guys need more than others so you gotta find your sweet spot

 

[gagernicholas]

A natural test booster wont be enough and no test booster could ever replace a real test base, a test booster will give your body what it needs to create its own test which wont be much especially since you're going to be suppressing your LH. But epiandro, 4andro or dermacrine (a topical DHEA) are good options for a test base. Here's a copy and paste

Dermacrine or Topical DHEA – This is best used if you simply want to use a topical product (some people like rubbing themselves), or if you have previous experience with DHEA and experience the cognitive benefit, and feeling of well-being it provides some users. Overall it is the least effective “test base”.

4-AD (4-DHEA) – 4-AD is a two step prohormone that converts to actual testosterone. The problem with 4-AD is that at some point it causes a negative feedback loop (the body recognizes increased levels of testosterone) and begins aromatizing to estrogen at a greater degree. That means there is a proverbial ceiling on how much you can increase testosterone. In my years of use, and extensive experience with 4-AD, I believe you can replace endogenous testosterone to about 25-50% of your normal levels. That means you won’t get a “testosterone high” but it can certainly help maintain your libido, energy, and decrease or limit lethargy.

Stano (epiandrosterone and/or androsterone) – This a prohormone to dyhydrotestosterone (DHT). Another major metabolite of its use is an aromatase inhibitor. Unlike 4-AD, stano will be very dry, and it will lower estrogens to a mild degree. This is greater for avoiding gyno. It also provides users fairly reasonable levels of energy, and some report fat loss benefits (probably just lowered water retention). Again stano, like 4-AD, is not going to result in supraphysiological levels of testosterone, so it will not result in greater on cycle gains, but it will help mitigate some of the previously mentioned side effects.Note – An extremely good stack (for a test base) is a combination of both 4-AD and Stano. It attacks the steroidogenic pathway on both sides of the pendulum.

Now if you wanna use a test booster for libido... sure you can do that, but a test base will have you covered on that too, now for all we know you could be genetic beast and not feel any issues AT ALL but since this is your first cycle, better safe than sorry.

Signs of low estrogen can be dry skin, mood swings, fatigue, low desire for sex, joint pain, etc. So with that said some would say to save the Inhibit-E for pct, others would take it on cycle... without a blood test theirs no way of knowing. So keep it on hand if you begin to feel any of those symptoms, but use the aromasin if serious symptoms pop up, like sensitive nipples.

Suppression is different in everybody so that 5%... forget about it, also elo76 is right just do 25mg from start to finish.

Cardarine can go with anything, I used it on my cycle. I thought it would be enough to fight the lethargy... nope lol, but it did keep me from passing out too early in the day and helped me stay a bit leaner.

Hey Charles,

One last question. If I pick up some 4-Andro for a test base, will my PCT need to be a regular PCT or can I still do the mini pc? Also, will the 4 Andro concert to estrogen?

Thanks in advance. I’m either stacking cardarine and osta time OR ostarine and 4 andro.

Let me know your thoughts.

 

[Charlesw617]

Hey Charles,

One last question. If I pick up some 4-Andro for a test base, will my PCT need to be a regular PCT or can I still do the mini pc? Also, will the 4 Andro concert to estrogen?

Thanks in advance. I’m either stacking cardarine and osta time OR ostarine and 4 andro.

Let me know your thoughts.

I would go with a regular pct, even though ostarine is the least suppressive sarm and dhea prohormones aren't as suppressive as methylated prohormones. Everyone reacts differently to them, especially if your natural testosterone levels are already low. I too did a 5 week pct, but my pct was 50/50/25/25/12.5 pretty much the whole bottle of Clomid and right around week 3 was when my nuts returned to their natural size and my sex drive returned to normal. Now I'm in my 5th and final week and I'm back to my 100% self, I'm getting some blood work done in 2 weeks just to make sure.

So with that said, adding in another compound that also suppressive such as a 4andro your original planed pct might not be enough. You can either do that standard 50/50/25/25 that's more than enough that 99% of guys will bouunce back from or you could get away with a 25/25/12.5/12.5/5. But knowing how much exactly is enough for your body, requires blood work and a doctor knowledgeable in a.a.s. and sarms.

So play it safe and do the standard, on your next cycle modify it a bit and get blood work.

And as for cardarine, that can actually help with cholesterol a bit and since your goal is to build up some muscle but drop some fat cardarine will be the icing on the cake (with a proper diet and being in a calorie deficit) so take that bad boy all through your cycle and pct if you can... but cycle it. No one really knows the long term effects of it, but in moderation and proper cycling you should be good to go. I personally only took 10mg throughout my whole cycle and pct and I managed to keep my 6 pack even though I bulking with an excess of 800 calories a day, but I was also taking mk677

 

[Charlesw617]

Sorry for writing an essay lol, but since it's your first cycle it's always good to read others experiences and knowledge

 

[gagernicholas]

I appreciate the essay!

So, I will copy your Clomid PCT w/ benzo's on hand in case of insomnia (sometimes effects me when starting cycle and ending cycle).

SO:

Osta @ 25mg daily in AM 8 weeks, inhibit e EOD throughout cycle
Cardarine @ 20MG daily in AM 8 week inhibit e EOD throughout cycle
PCT - Week 8-10:
Clomid 50/25/25/25/12.5 + Cardarine 10/10/10/10 (end w/ clomid), continue X-Gels, CEL M-Test and Inhibit-E through PCT and 4 weeks after, to be on the safe side, and to maximize results.

NOTE: I will not be drinking any alcohol and my diet will be on point. Shall I create a new thread for the actual log? Sorry, I'm a newbie.

Not going to risk Gyno -- hence incorporating inhibit-e in both cycle and PCT. Also have Aromasin on hand if things get crazy (but so far, in my research with SARMS, this is unlikely).

I have read that some people prefer to PM dose but that id does not really even matter, considering once it builds up, it's in your system. Think I will do both at full dose once a day, when I find more information on AM vs PM dosing.

Did you split your dosing? I AM SO EXCITED TO BEGIN THIS CYCLE NEXT WEEK

Regards,

Nick

 

[gagernicholas]

Inhibit-e for sex drive, gyno confonrtation, and possibly adding extra bottle of CEL m-test for libido during the 2 month SARM period. But, as I said, I'll be using it PCT to jump start everything and hopefully continue to gain as I come off of PCT.

Charles,

Thanks for all of your help, my friend. May we meet again! Please feel free to sub to my log, I'll be posting before, during and after pics, as well as during and after PCT pics. Whole shabang.

 

[Charlesw617]

I appreciate the essay!

So, I will copy your Clomid PCT w/ benzo's on hand in case of insomnia (sometimes effects me when starting cycle and ending cycle).

SO:

Osta @ 25mg daily in AM 8 weeks, inhibit e EOD throughout cycle
Cardarine @ 20MG daily in AM 8 week inhibit e EOD throughout cycle
PCT - Week 8-10:
Clomid 50/25/25/25/12.5 + Cardarine 10/10/10/10 (end w/ clomid), continue X-Gels, CEL M-Test and Inhibit-E through PCT and 4 weeks after, to be on the safe side, and to maximize results.

NOTE: I will not be drinking any alcohol and my diet will be on point. Shall I create a new thread for the actual log? Sorry, I'm a newbie.

Not going to risk Gyno -- hence incorporating inhibit-e in both cycle and PCT. Also have Aromasin on hand if things get crazy (but so far, in my research with SARMS, this is unlikely).

I have read that some people prefer to PM dose but that id does not really even matter, considering once it builds up, it's in your system. Think I will do both at full dose once a day, when I find more information on AM vs PM dosing.

Did you split your dosing? I AM SO EXCITED TO BEGIN THIS CYCLE NEXT WEEK

Regards,

Nick

I didn't split my dose on anything, lgd's half life is 24 to 36 hours so I took all 15mg in the morning, along with 10mg of cardarine and 30mg of MK677. Along with my Multi, 200mg of magnesium and my scoop of greens powder. The only thing i split dosed was the Olyumpus Labs Sup3r pct, 5 in the morning and 5 in the evening when I got home from work. Heres my whole stack and PCT

SARM CYCLE (Eating 500 to 800 calories above maintenance daily)
Week 1-8
Newroids LGD-4033 - 15mg ED
Newroids GW501516 – 10mg ED
X Factor - 1500mg pre workout
Newroids MK-677 - 30mg ED

PCT / NATTY CYCLE (Eating at maintenance calories for my body weight)
Week 9-13
Massacr3 – 1 Pill in the am and 1 pill in the pm and 1 pre workout
Ep1logue – 1 Pill in the am and 1 pill in the pm
X Factor - 1500mg pre workout
MAresearch MK-677 - 25mg ED
Newroids GW501516 – 10mg ED
Enhanced Athlete Clomiphene Citrate (clomid) – 50mg/50mg/25mg/25mg/12.5 ED
Olympous Labs Sup3r PCT – Split recommended dose 12 hours apart
Exemestane (aromasin) – ON HAND

I added a natty stack in with my PCT... which honestly didn't do anything but give me great pumps due to the Vaso6. Even with 5 weeks of double dosing it and taking another Massacr3e pre-workout my weight still floated between 168 and 169. Aw well.

 

[Newth]

I didn't split my dose on anything, lgd's half life is 24 to 36 hours so I took all 15mg in the morning, along with 10mg of cardarine and 30mg of MK677. Along with my Multi, 200mg of magnesium and my scoop of greens powder. The only thing i split dosed was the Olyumpus Labs Sup3r pct, 5 in the morning and 5 in the evening when I got home from work. Heres my whole stack and PCT

SARM CYCLE (Eating 500 to 800 calories above maintenance daily)
Week 1-8
Newroids LGD-4033 - 15mg ED
Newroids GW501516 – 10mg ED
X Factor - 1500mg pre workout
Newroids MK-677 - 30mg ED

PCT / NATTY CYCLE (Eating at maintenance calories for my body weight)
Week 9-13
Massacr3 – 1 Pill in the am and 1 pill in the pm and 1 pre workout
Ep1logue – 1 Pill in the am and 1 pill in the pm
X Factor - 1500mg pre workout
MAresearch MK-677 - 25mg ED
Newroids GW501516 – 10mg ED
Enhanced Athlete Clomiphene Citrate (clomid) – 50mg/50mg/25mg/25mg/12.5 ED
Olympous Labs Sup3r PCT – Split recommended dose 12 hours apart
Exemestane (aromasin) – ON HAND

I added a natty stack in with my PCT... which honestly didn't do anything but give me great pumps due to the Vaso6. Even with 5 weeks of double dosing it and taking another Massacr3e pre-workout my weight still floated between 168 and 169. Aw well.

Did you log this cycle?

 

[Charlesw617]

Did you log this cycle?

I did, I made a log from a week to week basis instead of day to day. It's about what I've experienced during that week instead of what I ate and what I did in the gym. I just haven't posted it yet.

 

[Newth]

I did, I made a log from a week to week basis instead of day to day. It about what I've experienced during that week instead of what I ate and what I did in the gym. I just haven't posted it yet.

Nice. I look forward to reading it.

 

[elo76]

Kind of browsed back through the thread and the only thing I'm seeing is that you will be taking inhibit-e throughout the cycle. I know your paranoid about gyno and its only OTC. That's why we say to have a legit AI on hand though. I only use an AI when I feel high estro sides. Have you ever had low e2? It sucks worse than high. Everything your trying to prevent...low libido, lethargy, etc will be gone if you crash it.