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Injectable replacement for tren during a strength cycle

How does a vagina feels like?
To me any vagina feels way too tight.
 
Here my question for the "big-d1ck" guys. After reading all this, I'll need clarification:

What to do with Trestolone-acetate (no test)? AI -yes or no? Serm better?
Caber mandatory, I guess. Winny to get progesteron down is useful?
 
hairygrandpa said:
Here my question for the "big-d1ck" guys. After reading all this, I'll need clarification:

What to do with Trestolone-acetate (no test)? AI -yes or no? Serm better?
Caber mandatory, I guess. Winny to get progesteron down is useful?
Click to expand...
I dont really know why you would be asking ME that question... Ive never tried trest ace so idk
 
hairygrandpa said:
Here my question for the "big-d1ck" guys. After reading all this, I'll need clarification:

What to do with Trestolone-acetate (no test)? AI -yes or no? Serm better?
Caber mandatory, I guess. Winny to get progesteron down is useful?
Click to expand...
I've never needed caber for just trest.
Heck yes AI.
 
hairygrandpa said:
Here my question for the "big-d1ck" guys. After reading all this, I'll need clarification:

What to do with Trestolone-acetate (no test)? AI -yes or no? Serm better?
Caber mandatory, I guess. Winny to get progesteron down is useful?
Click to expand...

yes
no
no
maybe

I like ace, but i don't care to pin so often.
 
Cgkone said:
I've never needed caber for just trest.
Heck yes AI.
Click to expand...

After reading the "bick-d1ck" posts, that could be useless. Its what Sparkss , Matthersby and I agree on -after pounding trest with crazy AI dosages to no (or marginally) avail. Talking about Trest-ace -not TD-trest. Apparently, "methyl estrogen" is a different animal than estrogen.
brofessorx , time to show up, bro.
 
hairygrandpa said:
After reading the "bick-d1ck" posts, that could be useless. Its what Sparkss , Matthersby and I agree on -after pounding trest with crazy AI dosages to no (or marginally) avail. Talking about Trest-ace -not TD-trest. Apparently, "methyl estrogen" is a different animal than estrogen.
brofessorx , time to show up, bro.
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Yeah. I've shot trest ace. But to be honestly not for days in a row. But all trest turns to methyl estrogen I think.
 
Cgkone said:
Yeah. I've shot trest ace. But to be honestly not for days in a row. But all trest turns to methyl estrogen I think.
Click to expand...

I even go as far as to say, that not only AI's -but also serms don't work for gyno symptoms on trest, because either the methyl estro binds better to breast receptors (or knocks ralox off the receptor) -or gyno on trest is more related to prolactin/progesteron and serms don't work for it.
Sorry my poor understanding, talking about knocking off stuff off receptors...its how I visualize it.
 
Actually when you started this log I was wondering why you went with test again since it gives you gyno problems?
 
I think a lot guys will run into problems "waiting" to take an AI until they feel like they need it. with trest I think its important to start your AI when you start the trest. try to keep it managed right from the very beginning. there is a lot of difference with tren and trest.. I need prami on tren but not on trest.. can I get prolactin sides? yes but I don't tend to see them if I keep the estrogen in check.

I might add. I run 1mg of anastrazol every day.. which is rather high. even then I can still feel estrogen swing through out the day.. when it peaks I get massive itchy nips. just don't touch em ~
 
hairygrandpa said:
After reading the "bick-d1ck" posts, that could be useless. Its what Sparkss , Matthersby and I agree on -after pounding trest with crazy AI dosages to no (or marginally) avail. Talking about Trest-ace -not TD-trest. Apparently, "methyl estrogen" is a different animal than estrogen.
brofessorx , time to show up, bro.
Click to expand...
well and that with trest being a 19nor, it's not reduce to estrogen by aromatase. so ai does not prevent it's estrogen conversion
 
hairygrandpa said:
I even go as far as to say, that not only AI's -but also serms don't work for gyno symptoms on trest, because either the methyl estro binds better to breast receptors (or knocks ralox off the receptor) -or gyno on trest is more related to prolactin/progesteron and serms don't work for it.
Sorry my poor understanding, talking about knocking off stuff off receptors...its how I visualize it.
Click to expand...
I'll disagree here, to an extent. I just thing your dose of serm was to low
 
Cgkone said:
Actually when you started this log I was wondering why you went with test again since it gives you gyno problems?
Click to expand...

I'm experimenting. First trest run were oral + TD + adex, gave me gyno after upping the oral trest.
Second run was Trest-ace + Letro+Ralox = also gyno. Many factors play a role here. Was my Letro bunk, Ralox dosage too low?
No idea -but I mentioned 2 more people having the same problem controlling the sides of trest ace. Confirming that even with high dosed AI and Ralox, flare up of gyno occur.
So I'm now questioning:
-is gyno from trest e2 related (in this case methyl estrogen)?
-can it be controlled by AI -or serm -or both?
-or is it prolactin/progesteron related and can it be controlled? (caber, prami, bromo -may be winny for progesteron) ?
-or is it due to all 3 factors, needing a complex approach to control by all 3 (AI, Serm,Caber)
 
rtmilburn said:
I'll disagree here, to an extent. I just thing your dose of serm was to low
Click to expand...

We first need to establish if gyno from trest is e2 related.
If it is, can a serm control methyl estrogen?
Will a serm help if gyno is prolactin related? I do not adhere to the notion that controlling e2 = controlling prolactin. Look at the letro dosages that some are taking (2.5-5mg/d), for god sake.
 
xR1pp3Rx said:
I think a lot guys will run into problems "waiting" to take an AI until they feel like they need it. with trest I think its important to start your AI when you start the trest. try to keep it managed right from the very beginning. there is a lot of difference with tren and trest.. I need prami on tren but not on trest.. can I get prolactin sides? yes but I don't tend to see them if I keep the estrogen in check.

I might add. I run 1mg of anastrazol every day.. which is rather high. even then I can still feel estrogen swing through out the day.. when it peaks I get massive itchy nips. just don't touch em ~
Click to expand...

rtmilburn said:
well and that with trest being a 19nor, it's not reduce to estrogen by aromatase. so ai does not prevent it's estrogen conversion
Click to expand...

Could you both discuss this out, because both answers are in direct contradiction.
 
hairygrandpa said:
Could you both discuss this out, because both answers are in direct contradiction.
Click to expand...
"The conversion of the natural C19 steroids, testosterone and androstenedione, into estradiol-17beta and estrone is dependent on the oxidative elimination of the angular C19-methyl group. This complex key reaction is catalyzed by the cytochrome P450 aromatase, which is expressed in many tissues of the adult human (e.g. ovary, fat tissue), but not in the liver. However, 19-nortestosterone derivatives are characterized by the lack of the C19-methyl group. Therefore, for the aromatization of these synthetic steroids, the action of the cytochrome P450 aromatase is not necessary and the oxidative introduction of double bonds into the A-ring can be catalyzed by other hepatic cytochrome P450 enzymes."

Invalid Link Removed
 
rtmilburn said:
"The conversion of the natural C19 steroids, testosterone and androstenedione, into estradiol-17beta and estrone is dependent on the oxidative elimination of the angular C19-methyl group. This complex key reaction is catalyzed by the cytochrome P450 aromatase, which is expressed in many tissues of the adult human (e.g. ovary, fat tissue), but not in the liver. However, 19-nortestosterone derivatives are characterized by the lack of the C19-methyl group. Therefore, for the aromatization of these synthetic steroids, the action of the cytochrome P450 aromatase is not necessary and the oxidative introduction of double bonds into the A-ring can be catalyzed by other hepatic cytochrome P450 enzymes."

Invalid Link Removed
Click to expand...

Meaning that AI's do sh1t?
Translation please. :)
 
Cgkone said:
Letro should hit both e2 and prolactin. Correct?
Click to expand...

Hehehe. Yes, if only e2 is linked to raises in prolactin. Isn't a raise of progesterone linked to prolactin as well?
If trest converts to methyl estrogen, can an AI lower methyl estrogen -or only estrogen?
 
hairygrandpa said:
I'm experimenting. First trest run were oral + TD + adex, gave me gyno after upping the oral trest.
Second run was Trest-ace + Letro+Ralox = also gyno. Many factors play a role here. Was my Letro bunk, Ralox dosage too low?
No idea -but I mentioned 2 more people having the same problem controlling the sides of trest ace. Confirming that even with high dosed AI and Ralox, flare up of gyno occur.
So I'm now questioning:
-is gyno from trest e2 related (in this case methyl estrogen)?
-can it be controlled by AI -or serm -or both?
-or is it prolactin/progesteron related and can it be controlled? (caber, prami, bromo -may be winny for progesteron) ?
-or is it due to all 3 factors, needing a complex approach to control by all 3 (AI, Serm,Caber)
Click to expand...
I think in some cases yes.. a broad approach. I always have a little of everything on hand. just incase.. I hate prami so I wont use it unless absolutely a must.. I cant even use it for sexual performance as it give me hallucinations and makes me a narcoleptic
 
Trest Ace was easily Managed for me running up to 50mg day. Arimidex was especially effective at 1mg eod. However, running Trest with bunk pharma exem resulted in gyno
 
I’ll get to this later.
Trestolone aromatizes into methyl estrogen. I’d have to look up what it’s progesterone receptor interaction is.
 
brofessorx said:
I’ll get to this later.
Trestolone aromatizes into methyl estrogen. I’d have to look up what it’s progesterone receptor interaction is.
Click to expand...

If you mean by "later" next week, we all have tits by then. :)
 
Look into 1-testosterone (dihydroboldenone) I've seen it described many times as one of the least well known but best lean bulking compounds after Tren, it has the same side effect profile as EQ but strength more on par with Tren. The challenge is finding DHB that's legit and also is made with a oil that won't cause bad PIP which it is known for.
 
brofessorx said:
:lol: I’ve been thinking about it. Lol.
Click to expand...

My wild guess is:
-No AI -nor SERM can control methyl estrogen, (that is why 19-nors are called "wet" compounds, you'll hold water and AI doesn't do sh1t)
-gyno from trest (or any 19-nor) is prolactin and/or progesterone related, can only be controlled by caber, prami, bromo -and winni for progesterone

If you take a 19-nor + testosterone, AI works only by controlling the aromatization of test -not from the 19-nor
 
I also have progesterone sides with tren, and avoid for that reason. Only alternative I've found is high dose eq really, gram per week,with a gram of test. It's not going to replace 500mgs of tren ace at all, but it's just an overall nicer compound, and I've found the better feeling,nicer sleep,greater work capacity all help a strength cycle.
 
I ran trestolone for 5 months injectable, with zero ancillaries. 50-75mg/week of phenyl-ace.
 
brofessorx said:
I ran trestolone for 5 months injectable, with zero ancillaries. 50-75mg/week of phenyl-ace.
Click to expand...

What is the difference between trest-ace and trest-phenyl-ace?
50-75mg/w ,would be a ultra-low dose for trest ace. The average dose is 50mg/d for most dudes on inet.

I'm currently trying 7.5mg/eod on top of 80mg/d t-bol and 500mg/w test. I figured that to be the equivalent to about 500mg test/w, looking at the anabolic/androgenic ratio of trest ace (2300-650). Maybe getting off of test later and continue on trest.
 
hairygrandpa said:
What is the difference between trest-ace and trest-phenyl-ace?
50-75mg/w ,would be a ultra-low dose for trest ace. The average dose is 50mg/d for most dudes on inet.

I'm currently trying 7.5mg/eod on top of 80mg/d t-bol and 500mg/w test. I figured that to be the equivalent to about 500mg test/w, looking at the anabolic/androgenic ratio of trest ace (2300-650). Maybe getting off of test later and continue on trest.
Click to expand...

Edit, just saw an error in my thinking. The short half life of trest ace does not sum up to aprox. 500mg test/w.
 
The trest I used was 2 esters. Phenyl propionate (75mg/ml) and acetate(25mg/ml) for a total of 100mg/ml, 10ml vial.
I have a log from my previous username of a bb’er type of dosage and it stacked, then an update at the end of a separate cruise using the trest for that 5 month period.

When looking at trt dosages of 100mg test c per week, I’d say 50-75 mg ment is probably a similar dose.

I’ll go back and look but pretty sure I couldn’t handle 300mg/week of trest without titty sides.
 
brofessorx said:
The treat I used was 2 esters. Phenyl propionate (75mg/ml) and acetate(25mg/ml) for a total of 100mg/ml, 10ml vial.
I have a log from my previous username of a bb’er type of dosage and it stacked, then an update at the end of a separate cruise using the treat for that 5 month period.

When looking at trt dosages of 100mg test c per week, I’d say 50-75 mg ment is probably a similar dose.

I’ll go back and look but pretty sure I couldn’t handle 300mg/week of trest without titty sides.
Click to expand...
I ran that at 3 ml 2x per week.. nice run that one
 
BigNerd said:
Nor, is it clear why he's posting something completely irrelevant in this thread. That's a totally different thread.
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I think he was posting it here cause the brofessor and bry were in here cause they are really knowledgeable. Maybe not but i assumed that was it
 
The NPP, test, Masteron E worked great!
I just got ahold of some new stuff. gonna try it next.
I managed to find some methyldrostanolone, dermatrest, and Formestane. I've started a thread on that elsewhere.
 
hairygrandpa said:
I even go as far as to say, that not only AI's -but also serms don't work for gyno symptoms on trest, because either the methyl estro binds better to breast receptors (or knocks ralox off the receptor) -or gyno on trest is more related to prolactin/progesteron and serms don't work for it.
Sorry my poor understanding, talking about knocking off stuff off receptors...its how I visualize it.
Click to expand...

It won't aromatize through aromatase. It just won't. It has no 19 methyl. It will auto-tautomerize to 7-methyl-estradiol on its own without any interaction with anything. Whats commonly not mentioned on here is that estradiol is NOT the only hormone responsible for breast development. It takes four hormones to complete the breast development in females. IGF-1, estradiol, progesterone, and prolactin. Each one develops a different part of the mammary glands and the underlying accessory tissues. Progesterone and prolactin both finalize the the development of little milk sacs behind the areoli. Trestolone is is a full agonist of the progesterone receptor.

If you don't believe me look up how progesterone is added to estradiol to help bring breast development into the final stages in male to female transexuals.
 
2kvette said:
It won't aromatize through aromatase. It just won't. It has no 19 methyl. It will auto-tautomerize to 7-methyl-estradiol on its own without any interaction with anything. Whats commonly not mentioned on here is that estradiol is NOT the only hormone responsible for breast development. It takes four hormones to complete the breast development in females. IGF-1, estradiol, progesterone, and prolactin. Each one develops a different part of the mammary glands and the underlying accessory tissues. Progesterone and prolactin both finalize the the development of little milk sacs behind the areoli. Trestolone is is a full agonist of the progesterone receptor.

If you don't believe me look up how progesterone is added to estradiol to help bring breast development into the final stages in male to female transexuals.
Click to expand...

Great info! I was right then. Caber is a must and AI is only used to suppress aromatase of testosterone -when used in conjunction.
Do you think a SERM would be useful?
 
hairygrandpa said:
Great info! I was right then. Caber is a must and AI is only used to suppress aromatase of testosterone -when used in conjunction.
Do you think a SERM would be useful?
Click to expand...

I absolutely think so. Nolva or Ralox and a smidge of Prami at night. I barely need any AI just for the low dose of Test.
 
Should also be aware estrogen and prolactin have inverse relationships. One goes up the other goes down. One goes down the other up. At least naturally.

I still haven’t gotten time to sit down and pull up research on this, for you guys, I just speak about things I remember.
 
BigNerd said:
Good, that means you didn't waste any ancillaries, Mr Expert. What ancillaries would you use with trest?
Maybe YOU should do more research. There, I just got to use your comment on you :-)
Trest can't aromatize.

Fix the ****ing typos in your signature, too!!
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Trest can to armoatize just not through armoatase!
 
What matters is: AI does next to nothing for Trest. Breast tissue specific SERM and a little prolactin inhibition does work.
And of course, if your body doesn’t covert it like mine does, you can say AI worked for you, so therefore it works for everyone, but for those of us that aromatize-heavily/estro-sensitive-etc, we know that’s not true.
 
BigNerd said:
Good, that means you didn't waste any ancillaries, Mr Expert. What ancillaries would you use with trest?
Maybe YOU should do more research. There, I just got to use your comment on you :-)
Trest can't aromatize.

Fix the ****ing typos in your signature, too!!
Click to expand...


rtmilburn said:
Trest can to armoatize just not through armoatase!
Click to expand...


Matthersby said:
What matters is: AI does next to nothing for Trest. Breast tissue specific SERM and a little prolactin inhibition does work.
And of course, if your body doesn’t covert it like mine does, you can say AI worked for you, so therefore it works for everyone, but for those of us that aromatize-heavily/estro-sensitive-etc, we know that’s not true.
Click to expand...

so we have been having this discussion over in another thread and as ive been saying for some time... there was the OG discussion with PA on another forum, in which he talked about how heavily aromatiazable trest is.. if you look at all the research you guys are parroting, trest isn't included in the research. Remember, trest is fairly new and the studies usually cited about 19 nors and no aromatization, are often quite old. anyhow, trest is an aromatase substrate, and the normal pathways for conversion are not needed. and there fore most AI do in fact have action in relation to trest..
there is some newer studies posted in other thread talking about trestolone specifically and how it aromatizes.,

and as a personally user I can tell you about an hr after administration, (im) I find my nipples will usually start to itch, so I take 1 mg of anastrozol and within a 20 min window the itching stops. yet if I avoid it, the nip will become very itchy and uncomfortable to the point I almost cant keep my jhands off them trying to scratch.
 
xR1pp3Rx said:
so we have been having this discussion over in another thread and as ive been saying for some time... there was the OG discussion with PA on another forum, in which he talked about how heavily aromatiazable trest is.. if you look at all the research you guys are parroting, trest isn't included in the research. Remember, trest is fairly new and the studies usually cited about 19 nors and no aromatization, are often quite old. anyhow, trest is an aromatase substrate, and the normal pathways for conversion are not needed. and there fore most AI do in fact have action in relation to trest..
there is some newer studies posted in other thread talking about trestolone specifically and how it aromatizes.,

and as a personally user I can tell you about an hr after administration, (im) I find my nipples will usually start to itch, so I take 1 mg of anastrozol and within a 20 min window the itching stops. yet if I avoid it, the nip will become very itchy and uncomfortable to the point I almost cant keep my jhands off them trying to scratch.
Click to expand...
There are also some taking insane amounts of letro, one guy I say was at 2.5mg daily, and can't manage it.
 
BigNerd said:
The NPP, test, Masteron E worked great!
I just got ahold of some new stuff. gonna try it next.
I managed to find some methyldrostanolone, dermatrest, and Formestane. I've started a thread on that elsewhere.
Click to expand...
have you ever used formestane?
 
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