muscleupcrohn
Legend
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Any Exhaustive Experts on Cardarine, Etc.?
- Thread starter ucimigrate
- Start date
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hairygrandpa
Legend
Don't blame me... Here where I live its uncut and costs less than a legal pre workout per gram.
Seriously.
And uncut is way healthier then cut, right?
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Seriously.
And uncut is way healthier then cut, right?
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ax1
Legend
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BennyMagoo79
Well-known member
Think I need some of that after reading through this thread...
BennyMagoo79
Well-known member
Probably way more effective than cardarine for fat loss too...
ax1
Legend
Your talking about ephedrine vs. gw?
Personally, Id bet my health on ephedrine over gw. any day. GW is still just too controversial for me, there are other options out there that work. Ephedrine gives good performance boost too, I just wonder how that translates to cardio people for those that use GW for those purposes.
justhere4comm
Banned
Please excuse the following rant-ish post. I'm hyped up on covfefe this morning.
Don't biast my post with 'you're wrong moron!' and so on.
Ephedrine messes with me. Irritable as fork! and that is only after 3 days. I'd be willing to wager low dose 5mg x2 daily would be an interesting exploration for someone to match a few performance factors along with fat percentage measurements. It would have to be in a controlled environment with diet in check and no other performance enhancement products being introduced, and if possible a placebo based lab animal to have the same diet and routine... Since that won't happen.
I'll just light this cigarette x6-12 daily, and have this here tall glass of gin, every night, and see how it goes.
You guys are arguing about a chemical that was banned by WADA because it actually worked. WADA doesn't ban chit because it doesn't work or because it's unhealthy. It's effective. I can't realize how the pharma companies dropped the compound in study but it appears to be more a captain of a ship scuttling it so the other team can't get their hands on it. What better way than to label it dangerous and dump it?
Did the patent run out? Just asking. I'm not sure, and half-care.
I know big pharma really well. Don't ask me how, and I'm only being aloof about it because I don't want to drag on about my friend who's kind of a big deal in the game, and has a title. It's all about money, and market share. Nothing to do with the health of people, as it's about what's next in the pipeline to make them a sh-ton of more money and keep them in their mansions. Do not apply morals to these companies or people because they have NONE.
Most of that was spoken from a half-hearted effort to lend a possible answer to the dilemma of GW. and lend a less than conspiratorial though process to it's shelving. I don't think it causes cancer. I'd rather honestly think it would be a good cancer treatment at low doses along with some other items that are soon to be taken away from everyone in an effort to 'protect the patents'.
Just think about marijuana and it's existence in our lives from the beginning. That history alone compared to alcohol and tobacco should help us all understand a 'controlled' substance from a non-controllable substance. I believe marijuana shrinks tumors. Why only now are we seeing the big pharma and gov. joining in and letting it be used for medicinally distributed forms?
Of course, I believe all drugs should be legal, and any money spent normally on fighting the 'war on drugs' spent on rehabilitation for those in need of it. That's just me, free-thinking.
:afro:
Don't biast my post with 'you're wrong moron!' and so on.
Ephedrine messes with me. Irritable as fork! and that is only after 3 days. I'd be willing to wager low dose 5mg x2 daily would be an interesting exploration for someone to match a few performance factors along with fat percentage measurements. It would have to be in a controlled environment with diet in check and no other performance enhancement products being introduced, and if possible a placebo based lab animal to have the same diet and routine... Since that won't happen.
I'll just light this cigarette x6-12 daily, and have this here tall glass of gin, every night, and see how it goes.
You guys are arguing about a chemical that was banned by WADA because it actually worked. WADA doesn't ban chit because it doesn't work or because it's unhealthy. It's effective. I can't realize how the pharma companies dropped the compound in study but it appears to be more a captain of a ship scuttling it so the other team can't get their hands on it. What better way than to label it dangerous and dump it?
Did the patent run out? Just asking. I'm not sure, and half-care.
I know big pharma really well. Don't ask me how, and I'm only being aloof about it because I don't want to drag on about my friend who's kind of a big deal in the game, and has a title. It's all about money, and market share. Nothing to do with the health of people, as it's about what's next in the pipeline to make them a sh-ton of more money and keep them in their mansions. Do not apply morals to these companies or people because they have NONE.
Most of that was spoken from a half-hearted effort to lend a possible answer to the dilemma of GW. and lend a less than conspiratorial though process to it's shelving. I don't think it causes cancer. I'd rather honestly think it would be a good cancer treatment at low doses along with some other items that are soon to be taken away from everyone in an effort to 'protect the patents'.
Just think about marijuana and it's existence in our lives from the beginning. That history alone compared to alcohol and tobacco should help us all understand a 'controlled' substance from a non-controllable substance. I believe marijuana shrinks tumors. Why only now are we seeing the big pharma and gov. joining in and letting it be used for medicinally distributed forms?
Of course, I believe all drugs should be legal, and any money spent normally on fighting the 'war on drugs' spent on rehabilitation for those in need of it. That's just me, free-thinking.
:afro:
ax1
Legend
May I ask what brand you used and how much?
justhere4comm
Banned
It was Bronkaid.. and I think it was 10 or 20mg with 100mg of caffeine. It was actually 5 days now that I think on it further. 2 days at 1x daily; 2 days at 2x daily, and the fifth was my first at 3x daily. As I ramped up I noticed 'holy crap I'm getting pretty irritable. So I stopped.
Edit:
That said, I think it's a product people should freely have access to, just like anything, and if they approach it in an intelligent and researched method, all should be ok. I like how it treats me? I don't like how I feel?
I've had quite a few prescriptions in my life for various reasons, and I will tell you I've never been happier or healthier than when I've been taking nothing prescribed by one of my pill pushing doctors.
(Short story)
At one appointment I actually saw her writing a script and then told me to take these twice a day... then I interjected and told her, oh no. I actually feel pretty good. She said "then why are you here?".
My response: "I just wanted someone to talk this out with, and thank you!"
It was in regard to my issues post parental deaths so close together. My other doctor had passed away as well. The one I could just text or talk to. It's funny how some doctors think drugs are the solutions for too many things.
It reminds me of this when I had a cyst on my spine at one time.
Surgeon: We have to cut and take out this much flesh... (really)
General Doc: No, we can treat that with a minor outpatient process. Minor cut, and treat.
Guess who I saw? The General, and he fixed me right up. Surgeons want to cut.
Johnston
Active member
Couldn't agree more with the sentiment. I don't think we'll ever really know the truth, but the suggestion that big pharma is somehow looking out for us by dropping GW, and that there decision to do so is a clear indication of its danger... wow... pure ignorance and naivety beyond belief. You don't even have to posses inside knowledge of how they operate... a casual glance at their historical practice is enough!
I'd like to see more studies on GW... there is nothing truly definitive either way unfortunately.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
Guys, it’s not that “Big Pharma” cares about people, it’s that if it turns out that cardarine gave subjects cancer down the road and there was research indicating that they were aware of this possibility, they’d be sued for a s**t ton of money. They care about profit, of course, and lawsuits are not good for business, or reputation going forward. Simply put, GSK and Ligand viewed the risks as outweighing the rewards. You can connect the dots however you want from there; NONE OF US know for sure, but the simplest answer is usually correct. I’ve already stated my views, so I’ll leave it at that.
justhere4comm
Banned
To point out a few hypocrisies of many by the Pharma Industry.
ORTHO-NOVUM – birth control pill
“…benign but dangerous liver tumors. These benign liver tumors can rupture and cause fatal internal bleeding. In addition, some studies report an increased risk of developing liver cancer.”
MIRAPEX – for “Restless Leg Syndrome”
“…hallucinations may occur…”
“…increased gambling, sexual, or other overpowering urges…”
ABILIFY – bipolar disorder, schizophrenia
“coma or death…And trouble swallowing.”
Abilify
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Lipitor
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LOMAX – decreases symptoms from having an enlarged prostate (mainly frequent urination)
ALLI – weight loss aid
“These changes may include gas with oily discharge, an increased number of bowel movements, an urgent need to have them, and an inability to control them.”
VERAMYSYT – “treats allergy symptoms with a gentle fine mist that is scent-free.”
“nasal sores, glaucoma, cataracts and nasal fungal infection”
More disturbingly, ads for Veramyst used to say, “The way VERAMYST works is not entirely understood.”
ADVAIR – asthma treatment (My wife takes this and others.. for her asthma)
“asthma related death”
CHANTIX – anti-smoking aid
“Nausea, sleep disturbance, constipation, flatulence, and vomiting.”
That doesn’t sound so bad, except “sleep disturbance” is more like psychotic nightmares that persist even after you stop taking the pill. To wit:
By night four, my dreams began to take on characteristics of a David Cronenberg movie. Every time I’d drift off, I’d dream that an invisible, malevolent entity was emanating from my air conditioner, which seemed to be rattling even more than usual. I’d nap for twenty minutes or so before bolting awake with an involuntary gasp. I had the uneasy sense that I wasn’t alone.
Did we mention the killing of yourslef? Another side effect is, “suicide ideation”
Like a spoiled teenager, I’d suddenly uproot drawers from the bureau, push all the belongings off shelves with a sudden swat of the arm, smash a glass against the wall, and then the crying would take over yet again. Meanwhile, the room seemed to be pulsing and reverberating around me, and my eye would keep zeroing in on objects-the television, the AC, a pair of shoes-and feel as though they were somehow buzzing with life and gleefully watching me endure the biggest meltdown I’d ever had. I had somehow ruined myself, and suicide seemed like a good way to avoid the embarrassment of this fact’s being exposed.
ACCUTANE – acne
Pardon me while I don't trust them as far as I can spit in the wind while riding my bike.
(Yeah, I did that once before.. once.)
ORTHO-NOVUM – birth control pill
“…benign but dangerous liver tumors. These benign liver tumors can rupture and cause fatal internal bleeding. In addition, some studies report an increased risk of developing liver cancer.”
MIRAPEX – for “Restless Leg Syndrome”
“…hallucinations may occur…”
“…increased gambling, sexual, or other overpowering urges…”
ABILIFY – bipolar disorder, schizophrenia
“coma or death…And trouble swallowing.”
Abilify
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Lipitor
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LOMAX – decreases symptoms from having an enlarged prostate (mainly frequent urination)
- runny nose
- dizziness
- decrease in semen
ALLI – weight loss aid
“These changes may include gas with oily discharge, an increased number of bowel movements, an urgent need to have them, and an inability to control them.”
VERAMYSYT – “treats allergy symptoms with a gentle fine mist that is scent-free.”
“nasal sores, glaucoma, cataracts and nasal fungal infection”
More disturbingly, ads for Veramyst used to say, “The way VERAMYST works is not entirely understood.”
ADVAIR – asthma treatment (My wife takes this and others.. for her asthma)
“asthma related death”
CHANTIX – anti-smoking aid
“Nausea, sleep disturbance, constipation, flatulence, and vomiting.”
That doesn’t sound so bad, except “sleep disturbance” is more like psychotic nightmares that persist even after you stop taking the pill. To wit:
By night four, my dreams began to take on characteristics of a David Cronenberg movie. Every time I’d drift off, I’d dream that an invisible, malevolent entity was emanating from my air conditioner, which seemed to be rattling even more than usual. I’d nap for twenty minutes or so before bolting awake with an involuntary gasp. I had the uneasy sense that I wasn’t alone.
Did we mention the killing of yourslef? Another side effect is, “suicide ideation”
Like a spoiled teenager, I’d suddenly uproot drawers from the bureau, push all the belongings off shelves with a sudden swat of the arm, smash a glass against the wall, and then the crying would take over yet again. Meanwhile, the room seemed to be pulsing and reverberating around me, and my eye would keep zeroing in on objects-the television, the AC, a pair of shoes-and feel as though they were somehow buzzing with life and gleefully watching me endure the biggest meltdown I’d ever had. I had somehow ruined myself, and suicide seemed like a good way to avoid the embarrassment of this fact’s being exposed.
ACCUTANE – acne
- depressed mood, trouble concentrating, sleep problems, crying spells, aggression or agitation, changes in behavior, hallucinations, thoughts of suicide or hurting yourself;
- sudden numbness or weakness, especially on one side of the body;
- blurred vision, sudden and severe headache or pain behind your eyes, sometimes with vomiting;
- hearing problems, hearing loss, or ringing in your ears;
- seizure (convulsions);
- severe pain in your upper stomach spreading to your back, nausea and vomiting, fast heart rate;
- loss of appetite, dark urine, clay-colored stools, jaundice (yellowing of the skin or eyes);
- severe diarrhea, rectal bleeding, black, bloody, or tarry stools;
- fever, chills, body aches, flu symptoms, purple spots under your skin, easy bruising or bleeding; or
- joint stiffness, bone pain or fracture.
Pardon me while I don't trust them as far as I can spit in the wind while riding my bike.
(Yeah, I did that once before.. once.)
muscleupcrohn
Legend
Yeah, I don’t trust them either man. But my logic is that if I can’t trust what they DO approve, I also can’t trust what they DON’T approve, perhaps that much more even. There’s no real way of knowing I suppose. You decide the risk vs reward; there’s some inherent level of gambling with cardarine, as we just don’t really know, and will perhaps never know. What we do know is that it seems to work (effective) and be “safe” for very short term, low-dose use in humans. Anything higher doses or longer term is, by definition, a gamble. Surely we can agree on that; we don’t know. We each decide if this unknown is worth it or not.
justhere4comm
Banned
Does that matter? I'm sure not, as they are covering themselves from lawsuits?
My point was as follows, if you just take this.
ORTHO-NOVUM – birth control pill
“…benign but dangerous liver tumors. These benign liver tumors can rupture and cause fatal internal bleeding. In addition, some studies report an increased risk of developing liver cancer.”
You can now discount the cancer reason for GW from the table of reasons. They could have researched it further, and they stopped. The simplest reason? Something else came along that would cost them money to research and was more a sure thing to make them money. Scuttle it, move on. It could have been patent based as well. Can't patent it? Forget it. IMHO, They don't care about cancer scares.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
Yeah, they think they can develop a similar drug that doesn’t have those potential cancer risks; they’re working on it now. It’s GW7-somethingoranother. All things equal, they’d rather not have a cancer risk, that much is clear. Even if they can live with it, no company WANTS to have a cancer risk haha. They may not have morals, but they’re not stupid haha.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
All things equal, a company would prefer their drug not have a cancer risk. That much is clear. If they think they can make an alternative drug that is just as effective without said risk, it’s a no-brainer. If they don’t think they can reduce this risk without reducing the effectiveness of the drug, then they have the decision you mentioned to scrap the drug or just live with the risks and make those happy commercials with a myriad of terrible adverse effects while someone runs in a field of flowers with their dog.
justhere4comm
Banned
I can see how one can get sucked into this discussion. It's like a slippery slope... like walking into a slowly and gradual slope into the ocean that eventually has a drop off and it pulls you in. It's cold; dark; and dark revealing nothing really.
:afro:
I'm out brothers. I pulled the life preserver out and I'm floating up to the surface to get some air.
:afro:
I'm out brothers. I pulled the life preserver out and I'm floating up to the surface to get some air.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
Haha, yeah, I know what you mean. And there are so many variables, arguably too many to actually solve these equations. We all make our own assumptions to try, but we just can’t KNOW for sure. It was fun while it lasted though.
justhere4comm
Banned
Ok, one more post. lol.
SR9009 has horrible bioavialibilty. Just horrid.
Topical has promise but I've seen no solid reviews on it.
What about Aircar then? $5k monthly... just eat at a deficit and exercise more.
Chados
Well-known member
I've actually seen some positive reviews but who knows wether it's some marketing scam. In studies they found that it increases performance also. I think it's more of a fatburner than gw but has a much shorter half life and is more expensive. I haven't read too much about though.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
I haven’t done too much research on it, but I’m fairly sure that’s not a GSK/Ligand drug, so it makes sense that they’re (GSK/Ligand) still working on a new GW. Most of the fitness people don’t exactly use the drugs for their primary purposes or at their intended doses though haha.
Moderate alcohol consumption is good for HDL though, so cheers to that haha.
Chados
Well-known member
I don't know man, sr just seems more expensive and I doubt the fatburning effect is gonna blow anyone's mind. Gw really doesn't do much except giving you a lot more stamina which is fantastic but it's all up to you to eat and train right. Just like steroids they aren't fat burners, they just help you out with the process. Just wait 10-20 more years and they can reverse aging and we have all the time in the world to burn fat naturally haha..
muscleupcrohn
Legend
The only time I’d view GW as being justified is for a competitive athlete who thinks they won’t get caught. The endurance benefits there may be worth the (potential/unknown) risks. For just a gym bro, there are better options IMO.
Chados
Well-known member
Could be, the interesting thing to me is the cholesterol especially when people do steroids for a long time. Gw is amazingly cheap and super effective to keep cholesterol at an healthy level. The energy is enough from steroids alone to be honest. Not sure there are better options without possible sides and if there are then probably only accessible with a doctor's prescription.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
The thing is, that lots of people fail to consider, is that there’s a decent probability that even if GW doesn’t CAUSE cancer, it may potentiate the effects of other carcinogens and increase existing cancer growth; this has been shown in many rodent studies. Even if it doesn’t cause cancer in healthy people, AAS have their own cancer risks; combining them with GW is very risky IMO. Risk >>>>>>> reward for this use IMO. “Doing steroids for a long time” increases your cancer risk anyway; even if GW doesn’t CAUSE cancer, it may potentiate the negative effects of steroids on cancer growth. Very risky. Your call though.
Chados
Well-known member
Yes on the flipside it might prevent a lot of things that cholesterol and blood pressure can cause. The dangerous thing isnt one short cycle but using steroids over time with a high level of cholesterol and bp, the longer you have the increase the higher the risk. I think it's an argument that steroids will have a higher Chance of causing heart attacks and strokes before you get cancer. Most realistic scenario is that cancer comes with high age. That being said, anyone can get cancer at any age so yes whatever you do it's a risk.
Johnston
Active member
Only there are MANY medications that are on the market with a known cancer risk, even shown to occur in rats... so it really makes NO sense that would they stop pursuing a drug for this singular reason. There's more to this story. Like justhere4comm says, there WILL be a reason they didn't bring GW to market, but it's likely to be a financial one, not safety related. A singular study wouldn't signify such a drastic move anyway... well it could, but we'd see far more damming results... and especially in light of studies which (although in vitro) indicated potentially significant benefits which certainly warrant more in-depth study. Obviously cost/benefit analysis came up against that. They want a sure thing, a guaranteed money maker... if there was even a chance this was going to bury them in years of research and/or not work out in their favour, then they wouldn't hesitate for a second to bin it... which they obviously did.
Besides all this, rats are genetically pre-disposed to a very high risk of cancer/tumours anyway, so I've often questioned research where high incidence is used to equate human risk. At best this is exaggerated, at worst unreliable. I experienced this myself with a pet rat when I was kid, he had a massive tumour and he never went anywhere near GW or any medication.
justhere4comm
Banned
In a TD it would last longer and 2 daily applications might just be fine but combined with another compound in the TD, we'll call it matrix would be pretty interesting. I've also read someone's post regarding the originator of Ostarine is back at it with 10m in funding to reformulate it. Apparently they see a great value in it to go back to the drawing board. Maybe it has potential in a few different areas at low dose for muscle preservation in a deficit. Just as good as burning fat is being able to eat less without concern of atrophy while burning fat. I hate eating to be honest. It's so boring.
Edit: Again.
I can't stop posting on this. I think this topic is just so hotly debated. Losing Fat is our number one priority. Especially in the USA, if I may be centric for a moment. Apologies to all commenters. The obsession rises out of our incredible obese population and desire to reverse the course of our great failure as a country. The rise of fast food has destroyed us from the inside. I'll NEVER go and eat at a fast food restaurant again. I'd rather go hungry.
RickyBlobby
Well-known member
Have you ever done coke right off the brick on a white sand beach in Cancun, then walked out into the ocean while the waves just crash over your body over and over? If not, stop talking sh!t on cocaine because that's the closest you will ever get to heaven.
aovereem
Member
Big pharma never drops anything to "look out for us" but because of fear of financial reprimands
justhere4comm
Banned
Suddenly has the desire to go to Cocancun and walk into the waves at sunset...
:afro: lol
Chados
Well-known member
In a TD it would last longer and 2 daily applications might just be fine but combined with another compound in the TD, we'll call it matrix would be pretty interesting. I've also read someone's post regarding the originator of Ostarine is back at it with 10m in funding to reformulate it. Apparently they see a great value in it to go back to the drawing board. Maybe it has potential in a few different areas at low dose for muscle preservation in a deficit. Just as good as burning fat is being able to eat less without concern of atrophy while burning fat. I hate eating to be honest. It's so boring.
Edit: Again.
I can't stop posting on this. I think this topic is just so hotly debated. Losing Fat is our number one priority. Especially in the USA, if I may be centric for a moment. Apologies to all commenters. The obsession rises out of our incredible obese population and desire to reverse the course of our great failure as a country. The rise of fast food has destroyed us from the inside. I'll NEVER go and eat at a fast food restaurant again. I'd rather go hungry.
I actually like ostarine a lot. Not for its muscle building qualities but for muscle waste. Yup too much fast food, I remember seeing a documentary with an absurd amount of McDonald's in New York alone. Maybe it was 1000 + dont quote me on this. I think most people will be fine by just removing carbs all together but we all know that's not the easiest thing to do. I think we're going to see some extreme compounds in the future with far more benefits than we thought possible. We might actually be able to grow back limbs. A documentary called the genefarm took rabbits and mixed genes with the jellyfish and the rabbit started to glow green in the dark.
RickyBlobby
Well-known member
Pro tip: the guys that walk the beach selling necklaces and cigars......Have way more than just necklaces and cigars. They work for and are protected by the cartels.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
I'm not debating that a company will bring a drug to the market with risks, only that if they think they can tweak/alter the drug, or make a similar drug that DOESN'T have these same potential risks, it's a logical decision to pursue the new drug. As we already know, GSK/Ligand is working on a new GW drug, something similar to cardarine but they believe/hope with less adverse effects (a better safety profile). They COULD do years more of rodent testing on cardarine, and if that came back favorable, go on to human testing again (which they HAD to abandon due to the risks, they couldn't continue human testing at the point they were at), OR they could just start more testing with this new GW drug that they think will be safer.
While a company can live with their drugs having terrible adverse effects, they'd rather them not have them, as side effects can keep people from using the drug, or perhaps switch to a different drug, and lead to legal issues, so if they can make a new drug that's just as effective but safer, that's what they'll do, and that's what they claim they're doing now.
I'll just be waiting to see how this new GW drug turns out.
justhere4comm
Banned
Really wants a cigar and a necklace from Cancun. On the beach. At sunset.
BennyMagoo79
Well-known member
RickyBlobby
Well-known member
Also check out senior frog's in Cancun. The bathroom attendant is another one that will hook you up with whateves. He told me personally about the cartels and how you are protected if you chose to party there.
Cgkone
Well-known member
GW7 will be out next month.
Don't know anything about it yet
Sent from my LG-H901 using Invalid Link Removed
Cgkone
Well-known member
Disagree.
Opiates are far superior for euphoria.
The come down with coke is longer than the high
Sent from my LG-H901 using Invalid Link Removed
RickyBlobby
Well-known member
Well I've done everything under the sun, and I mean everything, and that was the most euphoric experience of my life. I'm sure it had something t do with the environment though.
Cgkone
Well-known member
Definetely environment matters. Company matters too.
Sent from my LG-H901 using Invalid Link Removed
Superted99
New member
are you kidding me ? Its magic
Never run Tren again without it - Stack with HGH frag for cut
Ive been on it for 10 months and very noticeable endurance - Combats Tren sides like you cant imagine 20mg ed am pm
ericos_bob
Active member
I'm glad you find it effective.
Cgkone
Well-known member
I like it to. I just got scared lately
muscleupcrohn
Legend
You mean GW0742?
Cgkone
Well-known member
Yup. Been mis typing it for 2 days