Guest viewing limit reached
  • You have reached the maximum number of guest views allowed
  • Please register below to remove this limitation

Any Exhaustive Experts on Cardarine, Etc.?

muscleupcrohn said:
He's going to say that the same thing happens so often with ephedrine too because he saw 1-10 cases of abuse on PubMed, when we have reviews/analyses of 250,000+ users showing this is not a common/relevant problem in the vast, vast, vast majority of people who use it.
Click to expand...

Invalid Link Removed
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Ephedrine has been shown, in the overwhelming consensus of multiple peer-reviewed, placebo-controlled, double-blind studies not to be addictive or cause withdrawls in any meaningful way even when used MULTIPLE TIMES A DAY, EVERY DAY, FOR MULTIPLE MONTHS (24 WEEKS; THAT'S 5+ MONTHS). Let's see anywhere close to this level of safety for cocaine man. Show me MULTIPLE 24-week studies using cocaine even once a day (forget 3 times a day) every day and finding it to be safe and free from addiction and withdrawal. You can't because you're not making any sense at all... the two aren't even remotely similar in terms of addictive potential and safety. Suggesting they are is asinine.
Click to expand...

You have again quoted me saying something I didn't say. I never mentioned how long or how much. Short term small amount, you won't die I promise. Same with almost anything in the world. I also never claimed cocain didn't cause addiction less than ephedrine. Now take a deep breath and read this three times.
 
Chados said:
You have again quoted me saying something I didn't say. I never mentioned how long or how much. Short term small amount, you won't die I promise. Same with almost anything in the world. I also never claimed cocain didn't cause addiction less than ephedrine. Now take a deep breath and read this three times.
Click to expand...
THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE CAN USE EPHEDRINE RESPONSIBLY, DAILY, MULTIPLE TIMES PER DAY, FOR MULTIPLE MONTHS AND NOT NEED TO ESCALATE THE DOSE OR BECOME ADDICTED OR SUFFER WITHDRAWALS. THIS IS CLEARLY NOT THE CASE FOR FREAKING COCAINE. YOU'RE WRONG...

Good luck using small amounts of cocaine and not escalating dose or suffering withdraws. This is orders of magnitude worse with freaking cocaine than ephedrine.

Saying that you can use a tiny amount of cocaine once and not die (literally what you're saying) in no way means it's comparable to ephedrine, which the vast majority of people can use at decent/effective doses every day, multiple times per day, for multiple months. You're delusional.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Caffeine is a stimulant. All stimulants are addictive. Therefore caffeine is addictive. If addictive means unsafe, caffeine (see coffee) is unsafe, and not suitable for the general public, as you yourself said about ephedrine. This is what your argument/logic says, point blank.

You don't even know what you're saying, or at least don't know the implications of what you say. Just quite while you can maintain some basic perception of intelligence man.

You can find people addicted to ephedrine "everywhere?" GTFOH with that BS.

THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE CAN USE EPHEDRINE RESPONSIBLY, DAILY, MULTIPLE TIMES PER DAY, FOR MULTIPLE MONTHS AND NOT NEED TO ESCALATE THE DOSE OR BECOME ADDICTED OR SUFFER WITHDRAWLS. THIS IS CLEARLY NOT THE CASE FOR FREAKING COCAINE. YOU'RE WRONG...
Click to expand...

Haha on my god dude you're annoying.Yes coffee is addictive and it's not considered dangerous at all. Should not be compared to a synthetic drug. What is you problem really? I thought we already established something? Why keep going with silly stuff that just makes you look crazy. You read and misquote ever single time.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE CAN USE EPHEDRINE RESPONSIBLY, DAILY, MULTIPLE TIMES PER DAY, FOR MULTIPLE MONTHS AND NOT NEED TO ESCALATE THE DOSE OR BECOME ADDICTED OR SUFFER WITHDRAWALS. THIS IS CLEARLY NOT THE CASE FOR FREAKING COCAINE. YOU'RE WRONG...

Good luck using small amounts of cocaine and not escalating dose or suffering withdraws. This is orders of magnitude worse with freaking cocaine than ephedrine.

Saying that you can use a tiny amount of cocaine once and not die (literally what you're saying) in no way means it's comparable to ephedrine, which the vast majority of people can use at decent/effective doses every day, multiple times per day, for multiple months. You're delusional.
Click to expand...

I'm gonna assume you're on drugs? Did I say cocain was easy to quit?
 
Chados said:
Again low dose short term what do you not get here? That's not increasing the dosage is it? That's abuse if anything. I really don't have time for this. Ask the people who are addicted by it, you can find it everywhere. Any stimulant is addictive
Click to expand...

Short term low dose use can trigger a side effect of wanting more and increasing the dose. It can be quickly abused, possibly immediately. Its medical side effect. You cant just pick and choose the side effects well established in the medical field and ignore the ones that pull the steering wheel from you in the opposite direction.

And please post scientific literature backing your "any stimulant is addictive" claim since we have already posted human research that ephedrine is not.
 
Chados said:
You have again quoted me saying something I didn't say. I never mentioned how long or how much. Short term small amount, you won't die I promise. Same with almost anything in the world. I also never claimed cocain didn't cause addiction less than ephedrine. Now take a deep breath and read this three times.
Click to expand...

The short term cocaine use may have a immediate effect of heavy use, its a medical side effect. How can you possibly say short term in a small amount is safe when it can lead to a heavy dose and possible death from OD. Short term cocaine use has dangerous medical consequences.
 
Chados said:
I'm gonna assume you're on drugs? Did I say cocain was easy to quit?
Click to expand...
You're saying nothing that even remotely makes sense. You said that cocaine is safe to use in low doses short term. I'm saying that you likely can't use it only short term and low doses, so your argument is irrelevant/incorrect. You can clearly use ephedrine safely, and almost certainly not become addicted or suffer withdrawals, even if you use it multiple times a day, every day, for almost half a year. Comparing ephedrine to cocaine is asinine; if anyone is on drugs, it's the twat comparing the two...
 
ax1 said:
Short term low dose use can trigger a side effect of wanting more and increasing the dose. It can be quickly abused, possibly immediately. Its medical side effect. You cant just pick and choose the side effects well established in the medical field and ignore the ones that pull the steering wheel from you in the opposite direction.

And please post scientific literature backing your "any stimulant is addictive" claim since we have already posted human research that ephedrine is not.
Click to expand...

Okay so cocain can trigger addiction and the point of that is what? Trying to say that I said it didn't? Caps lock again.. SHORT TERM SMALL DOSE
 
muscleupcrohn said:
THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE CAN USE EPHEDRINE RESPONSIBLY, DAILY, MULTIPLE TIMES PER DAY, FOR MULTIPLE MONTHS AND NOT NEED TO ESCALATE THE DOSE OR BECOME ADDICTED OR SUFFER WITHDRAWALS. THIS IS CLEARLY NOT THE CASE FOR FREAKING COCAINE. YOU'RE WRONG...

Good luck using small amounts of cocaine and not escalating dose or suffering withdraws. This is orders of magnitude worse with freaking cocaine than ephedrine.

Saying that you can use a tiny amount of cocaine once and not die (literally what you're saying) in no way means it's comparable to ephedrine, which the vast majority of people can use at decent/effective doses every day, multiple times per day, for multiple months. You're delusional.
Click to expand...

Invalid Link Removed
 
muscleupcrohn said:
You're saying nothing that even remotely makes sense. You said that cocaine is safe to use in low doses short term. I'm saying that you likely can't use it only short term and low doses, so your argument is irrelevant/incorrect. You can clearly use ephedrine safely, and almost certainly not become addicted or suffer withdrawals, even if you use it multiple times a day, every day, for almost half a year. Comparing ephedrine to cocaine is asinine; if anyone is on drugs, it's the twat comparing the two...
Click to expand...

Hahah no!! Nobody has ever tried cocain one time...
 
Chados said:
Okay so cocain can trigger addiction and the point of that is what? Trying to say that I said it didn't? Caps lock again.. SHORT TERM SMALL DOSE
Click to expand...

That you cant make a claim that a small dose short term cocaine use is safe since that has serious immediate consequences that can ruin ones life. Its a completely illogical claim you are making.
 
Chados said:
My girlfriend tried it once.. she's in the next room
Click to expand...

Thats terrific!!!!! Now go find 1 measly person that tried ephedrine once and ask them how they are doing and then you can throw out every false claim you made on this board about ephedrine in the basket.
 
ax1 said:
Thats terrific!!!!! Now go find 1 measly person that tried ephedrine once and ask them how they are doing and then you can throw out every false claim you made on this board about ephedrine in the basket.
Click to expand...

You're saying there's no addiction with ephedrine?
 
Chados said:
You're saying there's no addiction with ephedrine?
Click to expand...
Not in the vast majority of subjects, no. A myriad of studies confirm this. And especially not anywhere near the same level as cocaine. Your "all stimulants are addiction" also means that coffee is addicting, as caffeine is a stimulant.
 
Chados said:
You're saying there's no addiction with ephedrine?
Click to expand...

No Im not saying that, the human studies and data show that its not. I really dont have to say or think anything other than finding valid studies rather than blogs and opinion pieces.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Not in the vast majority of subjects, no. A myriad of studies confirm this. And especially not anywhere near the same level as cocaine. Your "all stimulants are addiction" also means that coffee is addicting, as caffeine is a stimulant.
Click to expand...

Invalid Link Removed
 
Maybe with ephedrine after a 2 phase reduction using the birch method.. but ephedrine in and of itself?.. no.. maybe it feels like an addiction to those who've never experienced real addiction, but ephedrine seems to act more like coffee for me.. nice to have for a little oomph but not gunna go out of my way to keep a supply on hand lol
 
Chados said:
Any stimulant is addictive including coffee yes
Click to expand...

Can you just tell us and openly admit that you dont believe in scientific research and significantly large samples of human data?
 
Chados said:
Any stimulant is addictive including coffee yes
Click to expand...
Actually, many researchers don't think there is sufficient justification to classify caffeine/coffee as addictive, as there is no real negative effect on the individual/society from using it, it is legal, safe, and withdrawal symptoms are mild and transient. Please do some actual research.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Actually, many researchers don't think there is sufficient justification to classify caffeine/coffee as addictive, as there is no real negative effect on the individual/society from using it, it is legal, safe, and withdrawal symptoms are mild and transient. Please do some actual research.
Click to expand...

Anecdotally, I am completely addicted to caffeine and love every minute of using it, lol.
 
ax1 said:
Anecdotally, I am completely addicted to caffeine and love very minute of using it, lol.
Click to expand...
It's like saying water is addictive. If you don't have it for even a few days, YOU LITERALLY DIE. But it's cheap, legal, and even good for you, so who freaking cares.
 
ax1 said:
Can you just tell us and openly admit that you dont believe in scientific research and significantly large samples of human data?
Click to expand...

Can you admit that you're stuck in one study from 1990s? Can you admit that actual people saying they're addicted to both ephedra and ephedrin? I never said it was highly addictive, I also didn't say it was over the top dangerous. It's dangerous over the counter and at certain dosages especially for people with already cardio vascular sympthoms. Studies later on shows that, people show that. Are you gonna deny that less people died or got sick after the ban?
 
Now you can read that last comment maybe 5 times and then stop spamming this thread. It's not that important what I believe and what you believe.
 
Chados said:
Can you admit that you're stuck in one study from 1990s? Can you admit that actual people saying they're addicted to both ephedra and ephedrin? I never said it was highly addictive, I also didn't say it was over the top dangerous. It's dangerous over the counter and at certain dosages especially for people with already cardio vascular sympthoms. Studies later on shows that, people show that. Are you gonna deny that less people died or got sick after the ban?
Click to expand...
One study in the 90s? I posted no less than FOUR (4) studies in addition to the review of over 250,000 users. The "later" studies you reference are either papers/articles (not actual studies), use ephedra (which is NOT the same as ephedrine), or only deal with a handful of case reports (which the authors explicitly state don't PROVE anything). If you think it's ONE STUDY, you're smoking that good s**t.
 
Chados said:
Now you can read that last comment maybe 5 times and then stop spamming this thread. It's not that important what I believe and what you believe.
Click to expand...
No, it's only important what the research actually says. I can say 2+2=tomato, that doesn't mean it's a valid opinion.
 
Chados said:
Can you admit that you're stuck in one study from 1990s?
Click to expand...

Its one of the largest statistical samples when it comes to medicine in human history. There were other studies posted. All of them you didnt even read.

Chados said:
It's dangerous over the counter and at certain dosages especially for people with already cardio vascular sympthoms. ?
Click to expand...

And I agree with that, but you have been making many other outlandish claims out of thin air.
 
Chados said:
Now you can read that last comment maybe 5 times and then stop spamming this thread. It's not that important what I believe and what you believe.
Click to expand...

Neither what we believe important, the studies are whats important, the ones with actual human data and clearly use the ephedra alkaloid ephedrine.
 
I've said the same thing through this while thread. Im just enjoying you guys reading something else every time. And your inspirational teamwork effort. So conclusion. Both of you deny the possibility with the addiction. You both claimed it was safe and now you say it's not safe over the counter. Thank you guys it's been a pleasant conversation and I actually did learn something.
 
Chados said:
I've said the same thing through this while thread. Im just enjoying you guys reading something else every time. And your inspirational teamwork effort. So conclusion. Both of you deny the possibility with the addiction. You both claimed it was safe and now you say it's not safe over the counter. Thank you guys it's been a pleasant conversation and I actually did learn something.
Click to expand...
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed
I don't deny the POSSIBILITY of addiction, I question/deny the PRACTICAL RELEVANCE AND PREVALENCE of addiction you claim is present. I've never said it's not safe OTC; I've said, many a time, that it's safe OTC as long as you dose it responsibly and don't have any medical conditions that would make taking it a bad idea, but that goes for literally anything, even the most harmless/safe/benign substances. If you're allergic to shellfish, don't eat them, but it's asinine to say that this means shellfish isn't safe.
 
Chados said:
I've said the same thing through this while thread. Im just enjoying you guys reading something else every time. And your inspirational teamwork effort. So conclusion. Both of you deny the possibility with the addiction. You both claimed it was safe and now you say it's not safe over the counter. Thank you guys it's been a pleasant conversation and I actually did learn something.
Click to expand...

Yes teamwork, now me and muscle will be compensated many boxes of Bronkaid from Pfizer for shilling false safety claims on bodybuilding boards. Stocks went up, expect the trend to continue tomorrow. Investors off to make mass profits due to bro's clearing the pharmacy shelves.
 
ax1 said:
Yes teamwork, now me and muscle will be compensated many boxes of Bronkaid from Pfizer for shilling false safety claims on bodybuilding boards. Stocks went up, expect the trend to continue tomorrow. Investors off to make mass profits.
Click to expand...
Why'd you tell him man?
Invalid Link Removed
 
ax1 said:
Yes teamwork, now me and muscle will be compensated many boxes of Bronkaid from Pfizer for shilling false safety claims on bodybuilding boards. Stocks went up, expect the trend to continue tomorrow. Investors off to make mass profits due to bro's clearing the pharmacy shelves.
Click to expand...
But your sig says you're paid off by Russia comrade! Is Pfizer in bed with Russia? #conspiracy #aliens
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top