Guest viewing limit reached
  • You have reached the maximum number of guest views allowed
  • Please register below to remove this limitation

Using 1 Andro by itself (no test base and AI) is a good idea? Bad idea?

stevencfitnes

stevencfitnes

Member
I just got off a pretty decently long Facebook chat with a company that sells a 1 Andro product and I very nearly purchased.

I've used lgd-4033 with no test base, my test went from 713-410 and LH/FSH was untouched, and I came back without a PCT or SERM (I tend to avoid SERMS if possible).

Anyhow, this company rep ensured me that:

* It is suppressive but if I survived lgd-4033 with no pct and used only Olympus labs Test1fy then I would be fine on this.

* at 17% bodyfat with my training hard and on point and diet dialed in for recomp I should see great results.

* I will see dry gains and bodyfat losses

This sounds great.

Then I read comments here on this board that claim

the test base prevents you from being so lethargic you won't even want to train

I'm officially confused.

I have 12+ weeks left in big beyond belief and I'm logging it here...

Honestly, I'd rather run lgd or ostarine if this stuff will mess me up this much, but they don't have the purported fat burning applications that it seems 1 andro does.

Can someone please clarify?
I'd rather not stress about using

1 andro + 4 andro + on cycle AI + SERM pct
 
Seems to fall into the category of do whatever you want. You know the facts and how a SERM aids you in returning back to your baseline but it’s your body.

Both of those SARMs can be used for recomp and even a cut but it’s your diet training program that will tip your results one way or another.

I personally haven’t used 1-Andro but I do think it’s a waste just by itself.
 
TheMovement said:
Seems to fall into the category of do whatever you want. You know the facts and how a SERM aids you in returning back to your baseline but it’s your body.

Both of those SARMs can be used for recomp and even a cut but it’s your diet training program that will tip your results one way or another.

I personally haven’t used 1-Andro but I do think it’s a waste just by itself.
Click to expand...

so basically, what I am curious about is the suppression. I cannot find blood work for this, unlike LGD/Ostarine which have a pretty big community over on reddit.

Coincidentally, those folks bad mouth all PH's, saying only 4% availability etc etc which i believe may have been true for the older generation stuff, but the delivery systems are better now if I am not mistaken.
 
Everyone responds differently. Suppression is dose dependend. I did an LGD cycle with only "Dermacrine" as a "test base" at first, later I add 4-ad. Ramped the dose up from 5-10-18mg on the LGD. By week 7 the lethargy was too much for me and I quit. Thing is, LGD "kicks in" really slow (at least for me), the moment I felt it, lethargy killed the cycle. Cycle was planned for 12 weeks+

Nowadays I use Sarms, especially LGD, in a test cycle. Being "liver friendly" as an oral is a good thing.
 
hairygrandpa said:
Everyone responds differently. Suppression is dose dependend. I did an LGD cycle with only "Dermacrine" as a "test base" at first, later I add 4-ad. Ramped the dose up from 5-10-18mg on the LGD. By week 7 the lethargy was too much for me and I quit. Thing is, LGD "kicks in" really slow (at least for me), the moment I felt it, lethargy killed the cycle. Cycle was planned for 12 weeks+

Nowadays I use Sarms, especially LGD, in a test cycle. Being "liver friendly" as an oral is a good thing.
Click to expand...
I feel that at six weeks, the usefulness and effectiveness of sarms just seems to stop as lethargy does kick in.

What would you recommend if a person did feel lethargic in lieu of a tear base? Something like torem? As an on cycle support?
 
stevencfitnes said:
I feel that at six weeks, the usefulness and effectiveness of sarms just seems to stop as lethargy does kick in.

What would you recommend if a person did feel lethargic in lieu of a tear base? Something like torem? As an on cycle support?
Click to expand...

Torem as on-cycle support is a new thing here on AM -and I believe its a sound idea. A friend of mine did a Torem/T-bol cycle with success, besides getting peripheral edema from torem at the end of the cycle...

Nothing you can do to fight lethargy, besides stims -or a test base (serm on cycle is somehow a test base too). Sometimes lethargy is caused by other factors, like liver stress, I guess.
 
hairygrandpa said:
Torem as on-cycle support is a new thing here on AM -and I believe its a sound idea. A friend of mine did a Torem/T-bol cycle with success, besides getting peripheral edema from torem at the end of the cycle...

Nothing you can do to fight lethargy, besides stims -or a test base (serm on cycle is somehow a test base too). Sometimes lethargy is caused by other factors, like liver stress, I guess.
Click to expand...
Gotcha. I think I'll just stick with lgd-4033 then. Does it have any sort of fat burning properties? I can't find that answer.

I'd go with the 1 andro if I knew what the suppression would be like, because if the fat burning factor.
 
stevencfitnes said:
Gotcha. I think I'll just stick with lgd-4033 then. Does it have any sort of fat burning properties? I can't find that answer.

I'd go with the 1 andro if I knew what the suppression would be like, because if the fat burning factor.
Click to expand...

My 1-Andro experience was: Way too expensive for effective dosing. Mediocre results even at high dose.
LGD is like a stronger version of Ostarine. It works reasonable well in a LONG cycle. You could pair it with 4-ad to ward off lethargy (did not work for me -but LGD was at 18mg/d, at lower dosage it may help with lethargy). Have exemestane at hand. Some report nipple trouble with LGD.

No effect for "fat burning".
 
I strongly advise to do a real PCT after LGD, like :
clomid: 50/25/25/25
and/or
Nolva: 40/20/20/20
and/or
Torem: 120/60/60/60
Or take chlomid or torem on-cycle.

If I were you, I would consider :
Anavar: 50-70mg/d together with Torem at 60mg/d. For 6-8 weeks. May give you the results you are looking for without too much suppression -or sides. Take Torem 3 more weeks after finishing the cycle. It will be pricey -but so is 1-ad. The difference is, Anavar works really well for hardening up -and even gain some lean mass.
 
I hear you. I've been on cardarine for a while, don't feel much like continuing it (been around 8 weeks), so I'll just go off that and on the lgd-4033 and eat maintenance, it's worked decent for me before and this program I am on isn't a diet anyhow. Thanks!
 
hairygrandpa said:
I strongly advise to do a real PCT after LGD, like :
clomid: 50/25/25/25
and/or
Nolva: 40/20/20/20
and/or
Torem: 120/60/60/60
Or take chlomid or torem on-cycle.

If I were you, I would consider :
Anavar: 50-70mg/d together with Torem at 60mg/d. For 6-8 weeks. May give you the results you are looking for without too much suppression -or sides. Take Torem 3 more weeks after finishing the cycle. It will be pricey -but so is 1-ad. The difference is, Anavar works really well for hardening up -and even gain some lean mass.
Click to expand...

Gotcha. If you can pm me a source for torem? I am interested in it vs clomid or Nolvadex because it has a lower instance of side effects and there is a great log on reddit showing the difference of lgd with and without torem.

I don't trust the source I bought my current torem from. I can share that in a pm.

Hope that's OK. Thanks! I am off to bed but thanks a ton.
 
Cardarine may slim down rats, have not seen effects on humans. It gave me a little kick for cardio while lowering my heart rate.
I saw a log here on AM from a guy who had incredible results pairing LGD with MK-677. Was a long cycle and if I remember correctly, he used 4-ad as a test base. He got HUGE on it and even leaner. Up until today I'm not sure if he actually used tren and fooled us all.
 
hairygrandpa said:
Cardarine may slim down rats, have not seen effects on humans. It gave me a little kick for cardio while lowering my heart rate.
I saw a log here on AM from a guy who had incredible results pairing LGD with MK-677. Was a long cycle and if I remember correctly, he used 4-ad as a test base. He got HUGE on it and even leaner. Up until today I'm not sure if he actually used tren and fooled us all.
Click to expand...
Would love to see that if you can find it.
 
If you ran 1 Andro you should at least run
4 Andro as a test base, but you would need a real PCT with a SERM.
A common stack is 1 Andro, 4 Andro, and Epi Andro. I've ran this before and it was good with proper diet, training, and PCT(SERM), but results were nothing like Test so don't expect that.
 
hairygrandpa said:
A friend of mine did a Torem/T-bol cycle with success, besides getting peripheral edema from torem at the end of the cycle...
.
Click to expand...
Did he get bloodwork done/ how did you gauge his success?
 
stevencfitnes said:
Gotcha. If you can pm me a source for torem? I am interested in it vs clomid or Nolvadex because it has a lower instance of side effects and there is a great log on reddit showing the difference of lgd with and without torem.

I don't trust the source I bought my current torem from. I can share that in a pm.

Hope that's OK. Thanks! I am off to bed but thanks a ton.
Click to expand...
One of the board sponsors here has torem. Currently using it myself. It's g2g.

Mike Arnolds website. Maresearchchems.com
 
RickyBlobby said:
Did he get bloodwork done/ how did you gauge his success?
Click to expand...

Like most of us do, by evaluating before/after libido -and gains kept. On the other hand, T-bol was extensively used by east German athletes, without a PCT or on-cycle protection. I'm from east Germany. My friend was on the Olympic rowing team, he got T-bol "prescribed" and cycled it twice a year at 30mg/d for 10 weeks. Never complained and even won the Olympics.
 
hairygrandpa said:
Like most of us do, by evaluating before/after libido -and gains kept. On the other hand, T-bol was extensively used by east German athletes, without a PCT or on-cycle protection. I'm from east Germany. My friend was on the Olympic rowing team, he got T-bol "prescribed" and cycled it twice a year at 30mg/d for 10 weeks. Never complained and even won the Olympics.
Click to expand...

Yes, Ive read extensively about the doping of german athletes, they were told TBOL was a "vitamin" lol. They have very interesting data, including dosages and associated improvements in shot put/ javelin throw length and other events. After I read that I went out and got some TBOL, lol. Loved it. Didn't treat the females too well though, more androgenic than they expected :(
 
RickyBlobby said:
Yes, Ive read extensively about the doping of german athletes, they were told TBOL was a "vitamin" lol. They have very interesting data, including dosages and associated improvements in shot put/ javelin throw length and other events. After I read that I went out and got some TBOL, lol. Loved it. Didn't treat the females too well though, more androgenic than they expected :(
Click to expand...

One of the best compounds for overall improvement, even athletic and cardio. Did a 8 weeks cycle T-bol at 80mg, had bloods afterwards and it stressed the liver a tiny bit, not more as a night of binge drinking would do. Used TRT dose test with it.
 
Yeah I wouldn't be scared to run it 12 weeks personally. I only did 6 and the last 2 weeks are when the gains really started picking up.
 
So you are fine running a sarm which has very little testing behind it and unclear of the long term effects but refuse to use a serm which has been tested for decades ?
 
BloodManor said:
So you are fine running a sarm which has very little testing behind it and unclear of the long term effects but refuse to use a serm which has been tested for decades ?
Click to expand...
No, that isn't necessarily the case.
I am OK with either lgd 4033 or mk 2866, because they have trials and are still in human clinical trials.

I understand they'll effect total ryjih and leave lh/fsh alone, and that "time on = time off" to return to my natural baseline.

I can purchase them from a reputable vendor with a certificate of analysis.

I don't need a serm with any sarm, because they don't touch the hpta really, so I can just use an OTC test booster to feel a little more energy and libido.

The SERMS carry their own set of side effects, however they can be non existent I understand. Still, anything that can mess with vision and mood (in a sad sort of moody way) is definitely not something I can deal with at my job.

If I'm going over the top I'm not arguing you and I'll absolutely listen to why I'm wrong, but I hope some of this makes sense.
 
Ok it’s your body , we will see you in a year asking what to take to get erections and what is this puffy things under my nipples
 
BloodManor said:
Ok it’s your body , we will see you in a year asking what to take to get erections and what is this puffy things under my nipples
Click to expand...
Dude, I hear what you're saying.
What's your take on using something like torem starting at week 4 or something and using on cycle and then four weeks if I stop at 6 weeks of lgd-4033 it covers 2 weeks pct.

If that makes no sense let me know.
 
BloodManor said:
So you are fine running a sarm which has very little testing behind it and unclear of the long term effects but refuse to use a serm which has been tested for decades ?
Click to expand...

Same for Steroids.

Anavar has more studies on humans than all Sarms combined together. Its safe and works great! It heals by upped collagen synthesis too and is used for burn victims.
If one is already fiddling with his hormones, by using suppressive SARMS, who are still in testing phase, why not use a renown, human tested steroid instead?
 
hairygrandpa said:
Same for Steroids.

Anavar has more studies on humans than all Sarms combined together. Its safe and works great! It heals by upped collagen synthesis too and is used for burn victims.
If one is already fiddling with his hormones, by using suppressive SARMS, who are still in testing phase, why not use a renown, human tested steroid instead?
Click to expand...
Well part of the entire issue for me is the legality of anavar where I live, or even just test e/c.

I have to be careful based on my status here in the USA, and although sarms are not for human consumption, they're legal now, as are prohormones, whereas anavar or anything of. It's ilk are "slam you in the ass prison" drugs.
 
stevencfitnes said:
Well part of the entire issue for me is the legality of anavar where I live, or even just test e/c.

I have to be careful based on my status here in the USA, and although sarms are not for human consumption, they're legal now, as are prohormones, whereas anavar or anything of. It's ilk are "slam you in the ass prison" drugs.
Click to expand...

That is a valid argument.
DMZ worked great for me in the past too. Not an ideal substitute for anavar -but dry. Others here are more experienced with PH's.
Your idea using LGD with torem is sound. Only objection would be that LGD is more renown as a bulker. Would Rad-140 be a better choice? Anyone?
 
stevencfitnes said:
Well part of the entire issue for me is the legality of anavar where I live, or even just test e/c.

I have to be careful based on my status here in the USA, and although sarms are not for human consumption, they're legal now, as are prohormones, whereas anavar or anything of. It's ilk are "slam you in the ass prison" drugs.
Click to expand...
Meh... They're really looking for the suppliers... Not Joe schmoe on the street, but still... I hear ya.
 
1 andro can make you strong.
Very good for a legal DHEA.
But it will make u tired.
I'm liking the idea of SERMs on cycle an keep test up.
Or just use epiandro.
We can worry about price if we go the legal route
Its expensive
 
stevencfitnes said:
I hear you. I've been on cardarine for a while, don't feel much like continuing it (been around 8 weeks), so I'll just go off that and on the lgd-4033 and eat maintenance, it's worked decent for me before and this program I am on isn't a diet anyhow. Thanks!
Click to expand...
S4?
You don't feel it?
 
Cgkone said:
1 andro can make you strong.
Very good for a legal DHEA.
But it will make u tired.
I'm liking the idea of SERMs on cycle an keep test up.
Or just use epiandro.
We can worry about price if we go the legal route
Its expensive
Click to expand...
Well, I can get a chaos and pain cycle of "chemical 1" for $74.99 and then they have a 25% off coupon.

I believe that is for an 8 week supply at 1 cap a day of the doses I have in the attached picture. Invalid Link Removed
 
stevencfitnes said:
Well, I can get a chaos and pain cycle of "chemical 1" for $74.99 and then they have a 25% off coupon.

I believe that is for an 8 week supply at 1 cap a day of the doses I have in the attached picture. Invalid Link Removed
Click to expand...

Problem is the effective dose. You'll need not only one tub -but 3 to get a cycle going. Cgkone made a point. S4 is suitable for a cut/recomp. The "yellow vision issue" (if it affects you) goes away after cycle.
 
hairygrandpa said:
Problem is the effective dose. You'll need not only one tub -but 3 to get a cycle going. Cgkone made a point. S4 is suitable for a cut/recomp. The "yellow vision issue" (if it affects you) goes away after cycle.
Click to expand...
Reading about rad 140 and I like. Very much. Almost have ordered. There are sources here that are sponsors? Maybe I should contact them.

I want to log for a new project.
 
hairygrandpa said:
Problem is the effective dose. You'll need not only one tub -but 3 to get a cycle going. Cgkone made a point. S4 is suitable for a cut/recomp. The "yellow vision issue" (if it affects you) goes away after cycle.
Click to expand...
Interestingly, I was under the impression that the delivery system made every difference. The hi tech pharmaceuticals versions are also about the same dosage but they say the cyclome or whatever system means you can cut the doses by 1/2-1/3 and get the same results as 330mg of the 1 andro itself.
 
hairygrandpa said:
Don't know much about rad, yk and sr. Others may help.
Click to expand...
There is a comprehensive log on reddit, maybe 2000+ words where a user basically became blind after 50 feet at night. I cannot risk that due to me being the only driver in the household and having a family to look after.

If something happened at night time, I need all my senses.
Gainzzzz or not.
 
stevencfitnes said:
Interestingly, I was under the impression that the delivery system made every difference. The hi tech pharmaceuticals versions are also about the same dosage but they say the cyclome or whatever system means you can cut the doses by 1/2-1/3 and get the same results as 330mg of the 1 andro itself.
Click to expand...

Yes -and my sh1t smells like roses. ;)
 
1-andro definitely brought on strength for me. Ran it with 4-andro and epiandro, kept 7lbs after a pct (with clomid) and all the strength (35lbs + on squat and dead 1rm’s). I also looked leaner and harder than I ever have before.

But you would need to run at least 330mg a day.

I enjoyed that run but even with 4-andro and epiandro the lethargy gave me days where even sitting at my desk typing was a challenge. I stimmed the hell out of myself to train and but that was it for being ‘on it’ many days.

Running epistane with DT trest as a base now and it’s totally different. Much less lethargic.

I’d try to get 4-ad to run with it personally......
 
stevencfitnes said:
Reading about rad 140 and I like. Very much. Almost have ordered. There are sources here that are sponsors? Maybe I should contact them.

I want to log for a new project.
Click to expand...

Yes, Premier Research Essentials is one of them. They have Rad-140 and are a board sponsor. If you're not down with the S4 due to vision sides, I'd suggest looking at S23. Gave great pumps, muscle hardness, strength gains with just a little bit of fat burning effect so you can notice a little leaning out with it. Good stuff, but liver toxic for sure.
 
I like S4, it is easy to lose weight while on solo and hardly any lethargy or suppression. I have found RAD 140 highly suppressive and slightly hepatoxic (Had bloods done, elevated AST ALT and haematocrit), having to bail out from a cycle of this in the past due to really feeling unwell. Ostarine a compkete waste of time, and LGD absolute gold for bulking (works best with high carb intake and progressive increase in work voluime) once I put on 8kg, second time 3.5kg and both cycles elevated my compound lifts quite significantly. LGD crushes my natural test production.

I always PCT with SERM however, usually both clomid and Nolva at conservative dosages. My test levels have never recovered to pre SARM numbers, but enough for me to feel fine again after PCT.
 
stevencfitnes said:
There is a comprehensive log on reddit, maybe 2000+ words where a user basically became blind after 50 feet at night. I cannot risk that due to me being the only driver in the household and having a family to look after.

If something happened at night time, I need all my senses.
Gainzzzz or not.
Click to expand...
Yeah.
Nothing to do with footage.
Kind of a weird blob of yellow blur in front of your line of sight in total darkness.
Also light at high is brighter and yellower.
I wouldn't take S4 if you do stuff at night.
 
Cgkone said:
S4 smokes most other legal drugs for recomp.
Its daily bigger and leaner at a certain point.
Click to expand...
S23 is like s4 big brother.... Better results for lean gains and strength and insane pumps. Some potent stuff for sure!
 
But s4 is like a special secret only those brave enough to try get to know about.
Its bad ass at 100mg.
The eye sides go all the way at in 2.5 days .
But it Dosnt stall out like other steroids.
Even at 10 weeks it was working great and I did not want to stop.
But I was stumbling through my own house to take a piss at night.
One time I was opening the hall closet instead of the bathroom.
Pitch black is when its the worse.
You basically have to turn lights on at night.
And I try to stay in pitch blackness all the way through the night.
Only downside lots of upsides.
 
Godstrength said:
S23 is like s4 big brother.... Better results for lean gains and strength and insane pumps. Some potent stuff for sure!
Click to expand...
I have so many toxic stuff I want to use...just not sure how to fit s23 in there.
I have superdrol m1t and finally my favorite M14ADD which I love so it will be the reason I break my cruise.
Which I don't want to do.
EQ 300 test 250 mast 375 5ius GH is just fine
Amazing actually.
No sides and gains.
Too many decisions
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top