Why is it so hard to make an effective OTC PCT?

[HIT4ME]

Even without pharma grade testing, did you ever consider the fact that it (well anything for that matter) may actually work?

Uh huh. It may. How are you going to know?

Using your logic, the multivitamin the people took after their cycle could be a great PCT. I mean, they took it after their cycle and posted up blood work showing they returned to normal.

I have read enough studies to realize that pharma companies learn a lot from natural ingredients. The argument isn't so much about whether it works or not - it is that even if it did work, how do we know without legit evidence? And a handful of blood tests from uncontrolled situations is not evidence.

 

[Jiigzz]

You can't even be half serious with this, right?

Blood tests don't even begin to confirm things. They are, at best, an arrow pointing in a direction. A clue. But far from proof or confirmation of anything.

You would need a statistically significant number of people coming off of steroids, etc. to take the drug and give half a placebo (which is risky in itself) and half the "supplement" and see if the numbers in both groups show any statistically significant differences. And that's just to see if it MAY work.

You'd have to be able to reproduce these differences.

You'd have to also study safety and that would mean more studies.

I mean, do you even have the budget to buy enough Viron or Novadex XT or whatever you want to test for 50-100 people for a month? How about for multiple studies? Oh, and don't forget you have to source the product and also confirm it is what it is supposed to be with a chemical analysis and pay doctors and scientists and for blood work. Just for a small study you'd be talking hundreds of thousands at least.

So, of course supplement companies don't do any of that. So the question is, why would you trust something that some random blood work suggests may have an impact when you can just use a SERM?

So, yeah, it falls on someone making a claim to prove it works. If you want to believe something works without proof, you are free to do so. You can believe that crushed almonds and salt will cure cancer if you like.

How about putting it like this:

You have low testosterone from using anabolic androgens. I have two products you can try to fix it:

Product A has 35 peer reviewed, double-blind, randomized studies of high quality and $500M behind its development. 30 of those 35 studies suggest the chemical will take even the most dramatic cases of low testosterone and bring them back to normal.

Product B has 0 studies, $50,000 in production costs, and 10 people on the internet who posted blood work. Just to give it the benefit of the doubt let's say 9 out of 10 of those people had normal blood tests after their run (in all likelihood it would be less than 9). Of course, there is no placebo group so we don't know if those people would have rebounded anyway, because we lack stats.

So, now you come to me and say you have low T and I give you those two options. Even if Product A will cost you 4X as much, which would you choose?

Bingo!

 

[210LBS]

Even without pharma grade testing, did you ever consider the fact that it (well anything for that matter) may actually work?

Have you ever relied on Rebirth as your SERM for PCT? Would you rely on Letrone as your AI when your nipples start burning and itching?

 

[bigsmall]

Have you ever relied on Rebirth as your SERM for PCT? Would you rely on Letrone as your AI when your nipples start burning and itching?

I did use Rebrith for PCT twice, although the compounds were not 'that strong' (1/4/epi-andro and Sarms). Using Clomid prior for similar runs, I felt much better during PCT while on Rebirth and felt that I recovered just as well or better. I also ran Rebirth for two months each time though. Just a better experience all around; however, I would be very uncertain running Rebirth only / with stronger compounds. Letrone is powerful AI - as powerful as formestane from my experience. I have never had nipple problems -- however, I do have some old arimidex on hand.

 

[210LBS]

I did use Rebrith for PCT twice, although the compounds were not 'that strong' (1/4/epi-andro and Sarms). Using Clomid prior for similar runs, I felt much better during PCT while on Rebirth and felt that I recovered just as well or better. I also ran Rebirth for two months each time though. Just a better experience all around; however, I would be very uncertain running Rebirth only / with stronger compounds. Letrone is powerful AI - as powerful as formestane from my experience. I have never had nipple problems -- however, I do have some old arimidex on hand.

But that's the point. For cycles that are mild (andros) many people don't PCT at all and recover just fine. If you ever have nipple problems something tells me you'll be grabbing for that arimidex.

 

[bigsmall]

But that's the point. For cycles that are mild (andros) many people don't PCT at all and recover just fine. If you ever have nipple problems something tells me you'll be grabbing for that arimidex.

1/4 andro can do some serious damage to your hormones. I had bunk Clomid first time around and paid the price for a few weeks. This is why I went with Rebirth in the first place. I highly doubt anyone would recover 'just fine' without a SERM or 6 months of feeling like absolute ****.