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TRT. High Free T

insane

New member
On 100 mgs/wk T Cyp. Been on trt 15 years.

Labs from 3/2/18 show high Free T:

TT 830 (250-1100)
Free T 178 (35-155)
SHGB 21 (10-50)

Incompetent Endo didn’t order test for E (E2). My labs from nov 2017 E was 30. I use my own Adex .25 mgs/wk. Im thinking that’s what has kept my SHGB from going high. Thoughts?

Doc wants to lower my T dose from 100mgs to 75 because Free T high. What’s my argument for keeping my dose same?
Unless you agree w/ her decision.
 
The easy answer would be to raise your SHBG. Diet and lifestyle changes can do that. SHBG is not bad. It is actually crucial to the body and many of it's daily functions. Out-of-range SHBG can indeed be bad, though.

Break-down your FULL diet and supplementation regimen (both health and "sports performance").
 
I don’t need to change/modify anything because my SHGB is in range: 21 (10-50), correct?
I guess i just need to know my doc is making a competent decision lowering my T cyp dose. (100 to 75).
Thanks!
 
insane said:
I don’t need to change/modify anything because my SHGB is in range: 21 (10-50), correct?
I guess i just need to know my doc is making a competent decision lowering my T cyp dose. (100 to 75).
Thanks!
Click to expand...

Up to you whether or not you modify anything but as I'm sure you know, not modifying anything will keep you in the exact same position. Slightly raising your SHBG would lower your FT and you would likely not even notice a difference because you are on the lower side of the range. Diet changes can greatly affect SHBG levels. A diet high in dairy, protein and animals fats can raise IGF-1 and that can lower SHBG.

As far as your Doctor, she's trained to look at numbers and your numbers are out of range so she wants to adjust. That's not incompetent, it's just her specific training. Maybe you can convince her to drop the dose down to 90mg p/w? That small drop might get you back in range.

You can also try and convince her that you recently switched your diet and that was causing an elevation in FT by various mechanisms. This would give you some time to try and bring your FT number back in range.


insane said:
Will lowering or eliminating Adex dose raise shgb?
Click to expand...

In theory it should. I'd be hesitant to drop the AI without knowing your E levels, but that dose (0.25mg p/w) is low enough that the effect is likely very minimal anyway.
 
Nov 2017, my E was 30. I talked her into ordering along w/ other labs. She was hesitant.

No E ordered w/ most recent labs (shown on my earlier post).
Nothing has changed re my T dose, Adex dose, diet, supps. So E should be about same now.

Thanks for all your input!!
 
Tell her youre feeling golden (if indeed you are), and as her patient youre thus reluctant to change your current protocol.

Further, ask her to justify dropping the dose. What health/medical reasons are motivating her here?
 
insane said:
Nov 2017, my E was 30.
Click to expand...

Right, I forgot it was in the OP. To know how much of an effect the AI is having on your SHBG, we'd need to know how much of an effect the AI is having on your overall E levels. I'm not sure that .25mg a week is having a drastic effect on those levels, but I'm sure it is having some effect. Their movement should be tied together but I'm not sure the degree to which they both move in relation to that particular change in protocol.

With good E numbers, dropping the AI would be worth a shot.
 
She is a stubborn lady. In nov 2017, my hemoglobin was borderline high & she wanted to decrease my dose. Told her Hell no! I said i would donate blood. Her reply...That won’t help. ��. I debated her on this fundamental fix. Was futile.
We compromised & she had me retest in 3 months. Prior to doing my labs, i donated double reds (double rbc’s). Hemo dropped 2.5 points which easily put me in normal range. Was relieved that i could keep my dose. Little did I know she’d have issue w Free T now. Ugh.
So i have very little faith trying to convince her re your great suggestion.
If I hadn’t already mentioned, I’m awaiting an order of my own T as i wanted it for backup after the hemoglobin issue. Ultimately I don’t need her. I can do my iwn labs for relatively cheap.
I have been a medical professional for 25 years & in addition have years of knowledge & experience w/ gear. My first experience w old Endo 15 yrs ago was disappointing re lack of knowledge. He had me doing 300 mgs T cyp, once/wk. Of course i felt like crap. Huge spike in E after shot, big peaks & troughs, and due to half-life, felt like i did pre trt between around day 10 and next shot. I told him i was going to once/wk sjot at 100 mgs for reasons listed above. Once again, completely futile. Part his ego, pride, etc, the remainder just old school info?? No matter, was same amount of total med so. Was just the matter of getting more syringes since more freq injections.
The whole md thing..Just extremely frustrating.
 
Yes it sure does.
Didn’t think my .25 mg/wk would have that big of effect. Obviously don’t know how much of free t is due to that.
 
On the flip side, someone who has high E, could not have low shgb. Does that seem logical?
Because shgb should rise as E rises.
(and therefore lower free t).
Thoughts?
 
Nac said:
Tell her youre feeling golden (if indeed you are), and as her patient youre thus reluctant to change your current protocol.

Further, ask her to justify dropping the dose. What health/medical reasons are motivating her here?
Click to expand...
This is spot on ^^^! Stop the Adex before your next BW. In the mean time avoid bringing it up [Docs forget alot of ****] and if she brings it up say I feel great, their is no health problems with slightly elevated FT, and ask her to justify messing up a good thing

insane said:
On the flip side, someone who has high E, could not have low shgb. Does that seem logical?
Because shgb should rise as E rises.
(and therefore lower free t).
Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Your SHBG is independent of your TT or TE levels. It only effects FT and FE. A rise in TT or TE can but does not have a direct effect on SHBG. There are ways to raise your SHBG but don't bother. The only thing that is giving a high FT lvl is your Adex. But your FT is just out of range it's not 2X normal and ALL female Dr thing high Test is a bad thing!
 
FRITZFURY said:
This is spot on ^^^! Stop the Adex before your next BW. In the mean time avoid bringing it up [Docs forget alot of ****] and if she brings it up say I feel great, their is no health problems with slightly elevated FT, and ask her to justify messing up a good thing



Your SHBG is independent of your TT or TE levels. It only effects FT and FE. A rise in TT or TE can but does not have a direct effect on SHBG. There are ways to raise your SHBG but don't bother. The only thing that is giving a high FT lvl is your Adex. But your FT is just out of range it's not 2X normal and ALL female Dr thing high Test is a bad thing!
Click to expand...

The only thing she could say is hi free T can cause prostate issues due to increased dht. Im not sure if that’s been debunked & hi E is more of a culprit. In addition, she could say hi free T can result in too hi E but she doesn’t even bother to order labs for E. I had to fight her to get it ordered last November. Was 30 btw.
But yeah, female docs are so completely biased. It’s the pussification of American men agenda. Masculinity is a four letter word- unless it serves them (women). ie hiding behind men during a shooting, brawl, or home invasion.
It’s very apparent in school/classroom (my son is 14 but ive been aware of the dynamic since he was in kindergarten). Being a boy/man is frowned upon.
This could/should be it’s own thread.
 
insane said:
The only thing she could say is hi free T can cause prostate issues due to increased dht. Im not sure if that’s been debunked & hi E is more of a culprit. In addition, she could say hi free T can result in too hi E but she doesn’t even bother to order labs for E. I had to fight her to get it ordered last November. Was 30 btw.
But yeah, female docs are so completely biased. It’s the pussification of American men agenda. Masculinity is a four letter word- unless it serves them (women). ie hiding behind men during a shooting, brawl, or home invasion.
It’s very apparent in school/classroom (my son is 14 but ive been aware of the dynamic since he was in kindergarten). Being a boy/man is frowned upon.
This could/should be it’s own thread.
Click to expand...

I feel yah on the "oh no masculinity" it's fukking so insane. The prostate thing has been debunked unless you have cancer. Like you said it's way more dangerous for your prostate to have high e2 than high FT. High FT does not give you high E2 it's possible but not a direct effect. That level on your BW proves that it is not being converted. I really think you just need to stand your ground and just say I feel good don't mess with what is working. If she keeps pushing then demand that she waits a few months and gets new BW and stop the Adex a month before.
 
insane said:
I don’t need to change/modify anything because my SHGB is in range: 21 (10-50), correct?
I guess i just need to know my doc is making a competent decision lowering my T cyp dose. (100 to 75).
Thanks!
Click to expand...

I recently went down from 100mg of cyp a week to 80mg and I feel like ****. I would find a new doctor. I get bloods today and I don’t expect my T to be over 500 so I think he will bump me back up.
 
Alistair_ said:
I recently went down from 100mg of cyp a week to 80mg and I feel like ****. I would find a new doctor. I get bloods today and I don’t expect my T to be over 500 so I think he will bump me back up.
Click to expand...

What was reason doc lowered your dose?
 
Alistair_ said:
I was taking natural test boosters with my TRT and it made my test level come back way too high. I won’t make that mistake again when I have blood work coming up
Click to expand...

Impressive & surprising for a natty T booster. What were you taking?
 
insane said:
Impressive & surprising for a natty T booster. What were you taking?
Click to expand...

Interested to know as well because natural testosterone boosters don’t raise testosterone appreciably. Maybe they raised your free testosterone?
 
Nac said:
Wat, how is this possible? Total T or free t?
Click to expand...
Both. I was taking tribulus and long jack.
Tribulus makes the nuts come back similar to HCG, it’s just not as strong. A friend tried it and that was his experience as well. Like HCG, tribulus makes estrogen harder to mange on TRT. My total T was over 1000
 
I lost about 15 lbs body fat between 11/17 labs & 3/18 ones. This could be reason my free t increased so much.
Sound plausible?
 
Alistair_ said:
Both. I was taking tribulus and long jack.
Tribulus makes the nuts come back similar to HCG, it’s just not as strong. A friend tried it and that was his experience as well. Like HCG, tribulus makes estrogen harder to mange on TRT. My total T was over 1000
Click to expand...

Trib does increase LH but even 90* steroidal symponins will only make a slight diff if your norm and an ok diff if your low. Longjake [Tonkat Ali is the indigenous name] does effect FT quite strongly and TT slightly, But 95* of longjack or tongkat is fake because it comes from tree farms. The tree that tongkat is made of is endangered in every country except Indonesia. Only trees that are 40+ years old [natural forest in Indonesia] have roots that contain a potent amount of steroidal symponins that when extracted at a 100:1 or 200:1 ratio the extract contains enough potency to effect hormonal blood levels.

Nac said:
Wat, how is this possible? Total T or free t?
Click to expand...

Honestly there are too many hormonal factors in your body that would produce a 20* increase or decrease that is more likely than the herbs.such as e2, progesterone, DHEA, cortisol, and and all other sex hormones not to mention the hormones that are governed by sleep, eating, stress and then we have neurotransmitters and the list goes on. So unless you have a huge hormone/neurochemical workup you really are shooting in the dark.
 
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