Self Improvement Books

hairygrandpa said:
Shower thought:
-lets assume prayer works
-I need more muscles
-wouldn't it be wise to pray to goddess kali on arms day?

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I don't know. Would that give you bigger arms, or just more arms? Would growing 8 more arms the size of the ones you have now be something you want?
 
muscleupcrohn said:
I don't know. Would that give you bigger arms, or just more arms? Would growing 8 more arms the size of the ones you have now be something you want?
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I need another shower to reflect on that -but it could be practical for amputees to refer to kali, right? ;)
 
muscleupcrohn said:
I know it's just a theory, but you're presenting it as if it's true. It's a theory with an incredibly large amount of incredibly profound and unsolvable variables, as the existence of God and aliens are both independently two of the biggest unanswered questions facing humanity; proposing that the two are so interconnected is likely impossible to even attempt to solve.

This most recent post of yours seems to suggest that there is no God, only highly advanced aliens. Where does the omniscient and omnipresent God come in?

I can much more easily discuss/evaluate separate theories of the omniscient God and "aliens viewed as Gods," but proposing that the aliens are messengers of the omnipresent God is just so far beyond even thinking about thinking about that all I can say is "yes, it's a theory."
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Just the direction the convo went.
Discussing self help leads to God often.
I like the alien trip.
If you don't like it don't respond.
It ain't your tread.
You definitely don't got to bitch about it.
 
Cgkone said:
Just the direction the convo went.
Discussing self help leads to God often.
I like the alien trip.
If you don't like it don't respond.
It ain't your tread.
You definitely don't got to bitch about it.
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What am I "bitching" about? I was just asking about your theory and some potential issues I saw with it, and that I don't even think there's any way to even begin to evaluate it.

Your "theory" doesn't even seem to be consistent with itself though. I think you first said that aliens are messengers of God, but you later said that people merely confused aliens for God(s). The later is a much more self-contained theory, and is possible I suppose, but the former combines perhaps the two biggest questions humanity says and throws them together.

Which theory is it? Aliens work for the omniscient/omnipresent God, or people confused advanced aliens for God?
 
muscleupcrohn said:
What am I "bitching" about? I was just asking about your theory and some potential issues I saw with it, and that I don't even think there's any way to even begin to evaluate it.

Your "theory" doesn't even seem to be consistent with itself though. I think you first said that aliens are messengers of God, but you later said that people merely confused aliens for God(s). The later is a much more self-contained theory, and is possible I suppose, but the former combines perhaps the two biggest questions humanity says and throws them together.

Which theory is it? Aliens work for the omniscient/omnipresent God, or people confused advanced aliens for God?
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You know the bible right
What part of the bible did somebody see God?
 
Zombocalypse said:
lol

Prayer is powerful, but I don't think that God would perform a legitimate miracle for such a frivolous purpose. The reason has to be good.
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Pretty much. A prayer based out of vanity, if that's where it's coming from, probably isn't the type of thing that justifies a miracle. But hey, at least he's actually still working out after praying for muscles, not just praying for muscles and sitting on the couch all day. You still have to do your part and work at your goals.
 
Cgkone said:
You know the bible right
What part of the bible did somebody see God?
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Multiple parts. I'll find the specifics for you. Why do you ask though? Most of the time communication with God in the Bible isn't physical or sight based, but verbal or in dreams/visions, sometimes by multiple people.
 
Cgkone said:
You know the bible right
What part of the bible did somebody see God?
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I can answer this...

In the garden of Eden, both Adam and Eve PHYSICALLY saw God strolling around.

Also, if you believe in the Trinity, virtually everyone who saw Jesus have technically seen God.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Multiple parts. I'll find the specifics for you. Why do you ask though? Most of the time communication with God in the Bible isn't physical or sight based, but verbal or in dreams/visions, sometimes by multiple people.
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In Exodus 20, God speaks directly to the people with Moses instead of only to Moses.

In Exodus 24 it says Moses and some elders saw God, or at least a vision of Him, which would really be what any example of "seeing God" would be, as God is more of a "spirit" in nature than a human/body. Any account of "seeing God" would likely be a vision or manifestation, no an actual physical encounter with a Zeus-like physical-bodied God.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Multiple parts. I'll find the specifics for you. Why do you ask though? Most of the time communication with God in the Bible isn't physical or sight based, but verbal or in dreams/visions, sometimes by multiple people.
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Its never God
Not that it matters
I only think Moses saw GOD.

Its always angels. Sometimes just a voice
All I'm saying is that the world we know, you and me, aliens coming from the sky makes more sense than angels.
At least to me.
You just gave a whole spiel about hell.
That would be ridiculous for me to sweat your theory , No matter how much you've researched.
You can't prove a hell nobody can.
That would be silly for me to dis your Hell theory.

Anybody can pick apart a theory about god.
People do it all the time with the bible.

My theory is I believe the stories in the bible.
I'm not sure they are super natural.
BUT if aliens do exist they would be pretty close to supernatural traveling at light speed.
At least to me they would.

But yeah you could blow holes in My theory about aliens.
Just like your stupid ass theory about hell
?
 
Zombocalypse said:
I can answer this...

In the garden of Eden, both Adam and Eve PHYSICALLY saw God strolling around.

Also, if you believe in the Trinity, virtually everyone who saw Jesus have technically seen God.
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That's if you believe early Genesis is literal in nature as opposed to allegorical, which is opening a can of worms itself to discuss haha.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Multiple parts. I'll find the specifics for you. Why do you ask though? Most of the time communication with God in the Bible isn't physical or sight based, but verbal or in dreams/visions, sometimes by multiple people.
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No human has seen God
If you believe the bible
 
Zombocalypse said:
I can answer this...

In the garden of Eden, both Adam and Eve PHYSICALLY saw God strolling around.

Also, if you believe in the Trinity, virtually everyone who saw Jesus have technically seen God.
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The bible also says no human has seen God.
So its pretty easy to pick apart the bible.
I'm not trying to pick apart ****.
I just got my alien trip and I'm cool with it.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
In Exodus 20, God speaks directly to the people with Moses instead of only to Moses.

In Exodus 24 it says Moses and some elders saw God, or at least a vision of Him, which would really be what any example of "seeing God" would be, as God is more of a "spirit" in nature than a human/body. Any account of "seeing God" would likely be a vision or manifestation, no an actual physical encounter with a Zeus-like physical-bodied God.
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You can not see my face no-one can
 
Cgkone said:
Its never God
Not that it matters
I only think Moses saw GOD.

Its always angels. Sometimes just a voice
All I'm saying is that the world we know, you and me, aliens coming from the sky makes more sense than angels.
At least to me.
You just gave a whole spiel about hell.
That would be ridiculous for me to sweat your theory , No matter how much you've researched.
You can't prove a hell nobody can.
That would be silly for me to dis your Hell theory.

Anybody can pick apart a theory about god.
People do it all the time with the bible.

My theory is I believe the stories in the bible.
I'm not sure they are super natural.
BUT if aliens do exist they would be pretty close to supernatural traveling at light speed.
At least to me they would.

But yeah you could blow holes in My theory about aliens.
Just like your stupid ads theory about hell
��
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So you're saying people mistook aliens for God. Cool, that's fine. It's almost logical actually. My issue was with your original post that seemed to imply that aliens were MESSENGERS of God. Now that you clarified that aliens don't work for God, but were mistook for Gods, that makes more sense.

When did I say that I proved Hell, or even that I think it can be proved or disproved? I believe that we should strive to be good regardless of if there is a heaven and/or hell.

Perhaps the biggest distinction in aliens vs God is that aliens, while hypothetically incredibly intelligent and technologically advanced, are not omniscient or omnipotent or omnipresent as God is presented/stated as being. Furthermore, we have no reason to believe that aliens actually care for us or have our best interest at heart, or even that we can have a personal relationship with them.

No need to get offended and start name calling, as I assume my "stupid ads theory about hell" was meant to be my "stupid ASS theory about hell."
 
muscleupcrohn said:
So you're saying people mistook aliens for God. Cool, that's fine. It's almost logical actually. My issue was with your original post that seemed to imply that aliens were MESSENGERS of God. Now that you clarified that aliens don't work for God, but were mistook for Gods, that makes more sense.

When did I say that I proved Hell, or even that I think it can be proved or disproved? I believe that we should strive to be good regardless of if there is a heaven and/or hell.

Perhaps the biggest distinction in aliens vs God is that aliens, while hypothetically incredibly intelligent and technologically advanced, are not omniscient or omnipotent or omnipresent as God is presented/stated as being. Furthermore, we have no reason to believe that aliens actually care for us or have our best interest at heart, or even that we can have a personal relationship with them.

No need to get offended and start name calling, as I assume my "stupid ads theory about hell" was meant to be my "stupid ASS theory about hell."
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I corrected it it says ass now.
 
Cgkone said:
Oopsi
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What? God isn't physical in nature, so anyone "seeing God" can only, by definition, bee seeing a vision or manifestation of God, which I just provided you an example of.
Zombocalypse said:
Oh good lord, no thanks. Lmao...
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Haha, I agree with you. Let's not do down that rabbit hole.

One thing I believe is that it's not so much what you believe, but how you apply what you believe. If you believe early Genesis is literal, cool. If you don't, that's cool too. What I think matters is how we apply our beliefs to our life, how we try to apply the teachings of Jesus and try to be Christ-like. What good is being super firm in believing early Genesis to be literal or not, but not follow Jesus' explicit teachings, which I think we can agree is more important than an abstract idea of creation.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
So you're saying people mistook aliens for God. Cool, that's fine. It's almost logical actually. My issue was with your original post that seemed to imply that aliens were MESSENGERS of God. Now that you clarified that aliens don't work for God, but were mistook for Gods, that makes more sense.

When did I say that I proved Hell, or even that I think it can be proved or disproved? I believe that we should strive to be good regardless of if there is a heaven and/or hell.

Perhaps the biggest distinction in aliens vs God is that aliens, while hypothetically incredibly intelligent and technologically advanced, are not omniscient or omnipotent or omnipresent as God is presented/stated as being. Furthermore, we have no reason to believe that aliens actually care for us or have our best interest at heart, or even that we can have a personal relationship with them.

No need to get offended and start name calling, as I assume my "stupid ads theory about hell" was meant to be my "stupid ASS theory about hell."
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If aliens have been the angels in the bible then yes they would seem to have our best interest in heart.

Well old testament they had the Jews best interest at heart.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
So you're saying people mistook aliens for God. Cool, that's fine. It's almost logical actually. My issue was with your original post that seemed to imply that aliens were MESSENGERS of God. Now that you clarified that aliens don't work for God, but were mistook for Gods, that makes more sense.

When did I say that I proved Hell, or even that I think it can be proved or disproved? I believe that we should strive to be good regardless of if there is a heaven and/or hell.

Perhaps the biggest distinction in aliens vs God is that aliens, while hypothetically incredibly intelligent and technologically advanced, are not omniscient or omnipotent or omnipresent as God is presented/stated as being. Furthermore, we have no reason to believe that aliens actually care for us or have our best interest at heart, or even that we can have a personal relationship with them.

No need to get offended and start name calling, as I assume my "stupid ads theory about hell" was meant to be my "stupid ASS theory about hell."
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Not offended at all


Zombocalypse said:
This is kind of true, considering how God Himself said that no one who sees Him will live. But this is not my expertise so just ignore me. lol
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Cgkone said:
I corrected it it says ass now.
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He walked in the garden of Eden with Adam and eve
muscleupcrohn said:
What? God isn't physical in nature, so anyone "seeing God" can only, by definition, bee seeing a vision or manifestation of God, which I just provided you an example of.

Haha, I agree with you. Let's not do down that rabbit hole.

One thing I believe is that it's not so much what you believe, but how you apply what you believe. If you believe early Genesis is literal, cool. If you don't, that's cool too. What I think matters is how we apply our beliefs to our life, how we try to apply the teachings of Jesus and try to be Christ-like. What good is being super firm in believing early Genesis to be literal or not, but not follow Jesus' explicit teachings, which I think we can agree is more important than an abstract idea of creation.
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Cgkone said:
If aliens have been the angels in the bible then yes they would seem to have our best interest in heart.

Well old testament they had the Jews best interest at heart.
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You're not even making sense now. Your theory is inconsistent on even the basic existence of God.

You just said there is no God a minute ago, that people confused aliens for God. Angels in the Bible have explicitly stated that they represent God; if aliens said that they represented God, then people wouldn't be mistaking them for God, they'd be listening to them saying they represented God.

So which is it? I asked already? Do the aliens work for an omniscient/omnipresent God, or did people mistake aliens for God?
 
Cgkone said:
He walked in the garden of Eden with Adam and eve
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Again, many Biblical scholars have argued that early Genesis is allegorical in nature. Not everything is meant to be taken entirely literally at face value, at least according to some people. I think you just want to argue for the sake of arguing, and your argument isn't even clear...
 
muscleupcrohn said:
You're not even making sense now. Your theory is inconsistent on even the basic existence of God.

You just said there is no God a minute ago, that people confused aliens for God. Angels in the Bible have explicitly stated that they represent God; if aliens said that they represented God, then people wouldn't be mistaking them for God, they'd be listening to them saying they represented God.

So which is it? I asked already? Do the aliens work for an omniscient/omnipresent God, or did people mistake aliens for God?
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If people mistook aliens for angels
Than aliens are the angels.
How the heck does that mean no God?
 
muscleupcrohn said:
You're not even making sense now. Your theory is inconsistent on even the basic existence of God.

You just said there is no God a minute ago, that people confused aliens for God. Angels in the Bible have explicitly stated that they represent God; if aliens said that they represented God, then people wouldn't be mistaking them for God, they'd be listening to them saying they represented God.

So which is it? I asked already? Do the aliens work for an omniscient/omnipresent God, or did people mistake aliens for God?
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Nobody saw god only angels
Some spoke to God.
Angels are messengers.....aliens are messengers for god.

Now aliens being mistaken for GODs
We can inject it into Greece or definitely
The Anunnaki
 
Dale Carnegie How to Make Friends and Influence People. I love this book and try to live by its tenets. Have to admit some of it is lost with our now current In-Your-Face-Culture. It dates from a more polite era. It is also weak in dealing with self-absorbed types, in other words most young people as they do not see the nuance. But it is great at instilling a self controlling mechanism in oneself no matter how obstreperous a person one encounters.
 
I'm out you win
I still text with one figure
Ill try to clean up my alien/god theory next time
 
Cgkone said:
If people mistook aliens for angels
Than aliens are the angels.
How the heck does that mean no God?
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Do you even read/remember your posts? You said, and I quote:
Cgkone said:
Not at all
I believe what people saw in the biblical stories could have been very well aliens.
What makes more sense
An advanced race of beings that traveled to earth to interact with humans to steer us in the right direction.
OR
A supernatural being sends other supernatural beings from a different realm into ours .
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From an entirely logical and rational perspective, both theories, God sending supernatural angels and God sending aliens, require the belief in a supernatural/omniscient/omnipresent God. Therefore, if one believes in a supernatural God, it is logical enough to believe that he can create visions and speak to people. Throwing in non-supernatural, highly advanced/intelligent extraterrestrials into the mix adds an additional variable into the equation that we have to decide to believe to even entertain your theory.

Therefore, it is more logical to assume the theory with 1 variable (the supernatural God) is correct than to assume that the theory with 2 variables (the supernatural God AND incredibly intelligent/advanced aliens) is.

A more logical set of theories would each have 1 variable; a supernatural God OR advanced extraterrestrials people mistook for God that actually have nothing to do with God, that there is no God. Either of these theories is much more likely than your theory, as your theory has more variables, and both variables have to be very interconnected.
 
UCSMiami said:
Dale Carnegie How to Make Friends and Influence People. I love this book and try to live by its tenets. Have to admit some of it is lost with our now current In-Your-Face-Culture. It is also weak in dealing with self-absorbed types, in other words most young people as they do not see the nuance. But it is great at instilling a self controlling mechanism in oneself.
Click to expand...

I love that book. Not only is it profound, it is also well-written.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Do you even read/remember your posts? You said, and I quote:

From an entirely logical and rational perspective, both theories, God sending supernatural angels and God sending aliens, require the belief in a supernatural/omniscient/omnipresent God. Therefore, if one believes in a supernatural God, it is logical enough to believe that he can create visions and speak to people. Throwing in non-supernatural, highly advanced/intelligent extraterrestrials into the mix adds an additional variable into the equation that we have to decide to believe to even entertain your theory.

Therefore, it is more logical to assume the theory with 1 variable (the supernatural God) is correct than to assume that the theory with 2 variables (the supernatural God AND incredibly intelligent/advanced aliens) is.

A more logical set of theories would each have 1 variable; a supernatural God OR advanced extraterrestrials people mistook for God that actually have nothing to do with God, that there is no God. Either of these theories is much more likely than your theory, as your theory has more variables, and both variables have to be very interconnected.
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Gotcha
 
Cgkone said:
Gotcha
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Don't get me wrong, you bring up some interesting points, and it is perhaps more logical to theorize that people mistook extraterrestrial encounters for supernatural/God encounters than it is to believe in an omniscient/supernatural God, but saying that there still is a supernatural/omniscient God (one theory), and that there are hyper-advanced aliens (another theory), and then saying that the aliens work for this God actually requires accepting the two theories listed above AND then accepting the third theory that they are connected. Again, it's possible, but it is perhaps the least likely of the three theories IMO:

-God exists (he is supernatural/omniscient/omnipresent/omnipotent) (1 variable)
-God doesn't exist. Humans mistook advanced extraterrestrials for God (1 variable)
-God does exist. Aliens do exist. No assumptions are made regarding their relationship or lack thereof (2 variables)
-God exists. Aliens exist. Aliens work for God (3 variables)

(replace variables with assumptions, I think it fits better).
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Don't get me wrong, you bring up some interesting points, and it is perhaps more logical to theorize that people mistook extraterrestrial encounters for supernatural/God encounters than it is to believe in an omniscient/supernatural God, but saying that there still is a supernatural/omniscient God (one theory), and that there are hyper-advanced aliens (another theory), and then saying that the aliens work for this God actually requires accepting the two theories listed above AND then accepting the third theory that they are connected. Again, it's possible, but it is perhaps the least likely of the three theories IMO:

-God exists (he is supernatural/omniscient/omnipresent/omnipotent) (1 variable)
-God doesn't exist. Humans mistook advanced extraterrestrials for God (1 variable)
-God does exist. Aliens do exist. No assumptions are made regarding their relationship or lack thereof (2 variables)
-God exists. Aliens exist. Aliens work for God (3 variables)

(replace variables with assumptions, I think it fits better).
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I want to discuss more but seriously my finger is tired.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Don't get me wrong, you bring up some interesting points, and it is perhaps more logical to theorize that people mistook extraterrestrial encounters for supernatural/God encounters than it is to believe in an omniscient/supernatural God, but saying that there still is a supernatural/omniscient God (one theory), and that there are hyper-advanced aliens (another theory), and then saying that the aliens work for this God actually requires accepting the two theories listed above AND then accepting the third theory that they are connected. Again, it's possible, but it is perhaps the least likely of the three theories IMO:

-God exists (he is supernatural/omniscient/omnipresent/omnipotent) (1 variable)
-God doesn't exist. Humans mistook advanced extraterrestrials for God (1 variable)
-God does exist. Aliens do exist. No assumptions are made regarding their relationship or lack thereof (2 variables)
-God exists. Aliens exist. Aliens work for God (3 variables)

(replace variables with assumptions, I think it fits better).
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No I don't subscribe to #3 unless....

Since its the unknown....aliens could be the physical hand/messenger of the spirit God.
Aliens might come from a supernatural entity and the travel all of existence helping the most evolved species on the planets move towards a more loving kind lifestyle.
But that wasn't my original theory
 
muscleupcrohn said:
I've done a fair bit of research on this, including the Jewish and Christian perspectives (which aren't really the same, at least not completely), Hindu and Buddhist perspective (again, not always entirely the same), Plato's perspective (which seems closest to the Hindu belief, but ironically came to influence the Christian concept of the afterlife), the Stoics views, etc.

Old Testament Jews didn't really talk much about the afterlife, with their focus being mostly on this life on earth, with doing good and pleasing God not aiming to get to heaven, but to get to and continue to stay in the promised land, and to have their descendants stay in the promised land, and aiming not to do bad not in fear of going to Hell, but in suffering on this earth, being killed or expelled from the promised land which would lead to suffering. Some Jews arguably believed in some form of afterlife, but it wasn't a very common theme or focus really.

The Christian view of the afterlife and Hell is probably what most people think of when they hear "Hell." I read several very interesting papers, analysis, and studies on this, and it seems that the original translation/text regarding Hell seemed to indicate that while Hell itself is eternal and everlasting, that the people in it are not. The fire is unquenchable and everlasting, but that does not mean those who are subject to it are. The word we often translate as "everlasting" seems to be more accurately "age lasting." The Bible seems to pretty explicitly state the Hell results in a second death, which would suggest that the punishment in Hell can't be everlasting, but I suppose the consequences of it are eternal. The Bible mentions burning like chaff, which actually burns quickly and is extinguished. So it seems possible that the Christian perspective of Hell was once that it wasn't a "eternal torment" but torment and a second death in an everlasting Hell (the Hell is everlasting, not the people in it).

It seems that Plato's concept of an immortal soul may have influenced Christians to believe that the soul can't be destroyed in Hell, so now Hell had to become everlasting punishment, not a second death. Ironically, Plato seems to have believed in the "Un-Christian" idea of reincarnation; that worldly temptations (what Christians would call sin) are like nails that bind the soul to the body, and that they can be strong enough that they will compel us to come back to satisfy these desires after we die (reincarnation). He believed that we could only be free from this cycle of birth and death by removing these nails; only then could we go on to be with God after we die.

Plato's view is quite similar to the Hindu view, almost surprisingly so. Hindus seem to believe that we forget our true nature by the illusory nature of worldly things, and that we can only be free from the cycle of birth and death by seeing past these illusions and temptations and coming back to God and our true nature. This is actually quite similar to the Christian view that man was created good (in God's image), but was tempted and corrupted by worldly things, and we can only be reunited with God in Heaven by returning to our true, original nature.

Buddhism branched off of Hinduism, and originally didn't seem to talk too much about heaven or hell, and I've read some Buddhist monks saying that the Buddha didn't spend too much time talking about abstract things like the afterlife because it would distract us from focusing on the current, present moment that we live in now, which is the only thing we are guaranteed and in control of.

I've heard some Jews say that they believe Hell is real, but is temporary, and intended not to punish us for the sake of punishing us, but to cleanse us of our sins; a "cosmic dishwasher" of sorts. If we die clean, if we have removed the nails (as Plato put it) before we die, we don't need to be subject to this painful cleansing, and some people may need more cleansing than others. This view seems similar to the Hindu view of Hell, that it' a real thing, a potential place of suffering one can be born into as a result of negative karma from past lives, but that it's not permanent. I've read the Dalai Lama (Buddhist) say, talking to Christians, that we can perhaps view Hell mostly as a separation from God, so if we choose to act in an ungodly way, and shun God, we are essentially putting ourselves in Hell. This works oddly well with Jesus saying that anyone who is angry at a brother or sister will be subject to hell; can they be putting themselves in Hell, that is separated from God, by shunning God and acting in a way that is not true to God or our true nature?

TL;DR: I'd say my personal view, influenced by all of the above beliefs, would be that Hell is a real thing, but that people are not tormented for eternity in it. I believe that it is intended not purely as vengeful punishment, but as a way to cleanse us from our sins, which would by why people who have managed to remove the "nails of sin" as Plato puts it, don't have to go through this "cosmic washing machine" as a Rabbi put it. I believe we can't be in the presence of God for eternity (what we would call heaven) if we don't manage to return to our original nature and free ourselves from the corruption/nails we accumulate during our time on earth. How we choose to return to this original nature, how we choose to remove these nails and seek God is up to us, and I can't personally say that there's only one "correct/true" way/path.
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So, you believe hell is like detention? Limbo?

After their sins are cleansed, Then what?
 
Bintherduntht said:
So, you believe hell is like detention? Limbo?

After their sins are cleansed, Then what?
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I don’t exactly know. It may not be the same every time or for everyone. If I recall correctly, the Hindu belief is that “Hell” is a plain of existence that one is born into as a result of bad karma from past lives, and that after a period of time, one moves on to a new life, perhaps ideally at least partially “cleansed” and with a few “nails” removed.

Ultimately, I don’t think I can really know in this life what lies beyond this life, but I think that I should strive to do the right thing even if there is no heaven or hell, that doing the right thing, knowing that I am acting in my nature as I was created to, is reward enough. That trying to do good brings its own benefits in this life that are reason enough to do it without the promise of heaven or the threat or hell. I do think the Stoics really helped me come to believe this. It’s not always easy, and I’m not perfect; I mess up sometimes, but I think I can say I try.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
I don’t exactly know. It may not be the same every time or for everyone. If I recall correctly, the Hindu belief is that “Hell” is a plain of existence that one is born into as a result of bad karma from past lives, and that after a period of time, one moves on to a new life, perhaps ideally at least partially “cleansed” and with a few “nails” removed.

Ultimately, I don’t think I can really know in this life what lies beyond this life, but I think that I should strive to do the right thing even if there is no heaven or hell, that doing the right thing, knowing that I am acting in my nature as I was created to, is reward enough. That trying to do good brings its own benefits in this life that are reason enough to do it without the promise of heaven or the threat or hell. I do think the Stoics really helped me come to believe this. It’s not always easy, and I’m not perfect; I mess up sometimes, but I think I can say I try.
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Oh. I just meant God, heaven and hell.

So some of us are in hell and some aren't?

Anyways you are correct, no one really knows do they? Pic a religion, any religion. Every Culture has their own beliefs and different gods pretty confusing
 
Bintherduntht said:
Oh. I just meant God, heaven and hell.

So some of us are in hell and some aren't?

Anyways you are correct, no one really knows do they? Pic a religion, any religion. Every Culture has their own beliefs and different gods pretty confusing
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I wouldn’t say that anyone on earth is in “Hell,” but it seems possible that some people may go to “Hell” after they die, and some may not. I don’t know, and I try not to worry about it too much; it’s not in my control, and focusing on it too much would take away from living today, which is all we’re promised. It can get confusing with all the different religions and beliefs, but perhaps it’s just some people hav part of the truth, or maybe some people got a little confused along the way, but honestly, and religion or belief that encourages people to love and help each other is something that has the potential to do a lot of good. Of course, many religions have been perverted and twisted to justify horrible things, but that’s not what I’m talking about. For example, the Crusades were waged under the pretense of Christianity, but it was very un-Christ-like, and had no Biblical justification, just like some “Christians” being hateful today isn’t Christ-like.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
I wouldn’t say that anyone on earth is in “Hell,” but it seems possible that some people may go to “Hell” after they die, and some may not. I don’t know, and I try not to worry about it too much; it’s not in my control, and focusing on it too much would take away from living today, which is all we’re promised. It can get confusing with all the different religions and beliefs, but perhaps it’s just some people hav part of the truth, or maybe some people got a little confused along the way, but honestly, and religion or belief that encourages people to love and help each other is something that has the potential to do a lot of good. Of course, many religions have been perverted and twisted to justify horrible things, but that’s not what I’m talking about. For example, the Crusades were waged under the pretense of Christianity, but it was very un-Christ-like, and had no Biblical justification, just like some “Christians” being hateful today isn’t Christ-like.
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It's quite simple actually, according to the bible.

All you have to do is accept jesus/god and ask for forgiveness.

And your good! Not that hard
 
muscleupcrohn said:
I wouldn’t say that anyone on earth is in “Hell,” but it seems possible that some people may go to “Hell” after they die, and some may not. I don’t know, and I try not to worry about it too much; it’s not in my control, and focusing on it too much would take away from living today, which is all we’re promised. It can get confusing with all the different religions and beliefs, but perhaps it’s just some people hav part of the truth, or maybe some people got a little confused along the way, but honestly, and religion or belief that encourages people to love and help each other is something that has the potential to do a lot of good. Of course, many religions have been perverted and twisted to justify horrible things, but that’s not what I’m talking about. For example, the Crusades were waged under the pretense of Christianity, but it was very un-Christ-like, and had no Biblical justification, just like some “Christians” being hateful today isn’t Christ-like.
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It's not a religion for me, rather a relationship. A lot of believers agree with me that it has changed in that way
 
Bintherduntht said:
It's quite simple actually, according to the bible.

All you have to do is accept jesus/god and ask for forgiveness.

And your good! Not that hard
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Well, that accepting, asking for forgiveness, and repentance entails actually earnestly striving to turn away from sin and to be Christ-like. In other words, it has to be genuine; you can't just say "I accept Jesus as my lord and savior" and not really mean it or not try to be Christ-like and be saved; it's not a cosmic insurance policy haha. Philippians 21 actually seems to deal with this in a way; Paul, writing to people who were already Christians, said "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling," if all they had to do was accept Jesus to be ensured of their salvation, then there'd be nothing to work out, as they'd already be saved, as they were already members of the Church who accepted Jesus.

Rather, like you said, it's really more of a continual relationship, where we have to keep at it, where we can't become complacent and just be satisfied that we "accepted Jesus," but don't actually have a relationship with God and don't behave in a Christ-like manner; that's what we have to "work out." How to apply that "acceptance" in our lives.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Well, that accepting, asking for forgiveness, and repentance entails actually earnestly striving to turn away from sin and to be Christ-like. In other words, it has to be genuine; you can't just say "I accept Jesus as my lord and savior" and not really mean it or not try to be Christ-like and be saved; it's not a cosmic insurance policy haha. Philippians 21 actually seems to deal with this in a way; Paul, writing to people who were already Christians, said "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling," if all they had to do was accept Jesus to be ensured of their salvation, then there'd be nothing to work out, as they'd already be saved, as they were already members of the Church who accepted Jesus.

Rather, like you said, it's really more of a continual relationship, where we have to keep at it, where we can't become complacent and just be satisfied that we "accepted Jesus," but don't actually have a relationship with God and don't behave in a Christ-like manner; that's what we have to "work out." How to apply that "acceptance" in our lives.
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I have an issue with one of the things you said. I don't think this is the only post of yours where you mentioned the necessity of "being Christ-like".

Here's the thing... Jesus, at the least, at the very very least, is the Son of God Himself. And if you are a certain type of Christian, it becomes even more extreme: Jesus is God Himself.

How can we mere humans aspire to become like a god? Let alone THE God? Not only is this non-achievable, it's a mortal sin. Are you familiar with the serpent's deception to Adam and Eve? It said something along the lines of, "If you eat of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not die. Instead, you shall become like God Himself, knowing good and evil." We can't play God. That is more than just arrogance, it's a very ****ed up kind of arrogance.

What do you have to say to this?
 
muscleupcrohn said:
I don’t exactly know. It may not be the same every time or for everyone. If I recall correctly, the Hindu belief is that “Hell” is a plain of existence that one is born into as a result of bad karma from past lives, and that after a period of time, one moves on to a new life, perhaps ideally at least partially “cleansed” and with a few “nails” removed.

Ultimately, I don’t think I can really know in this life what lies beyond this life, but I think that I should strive to do the right thing even if there is no heaven or hell, that doing the right thing, knowing that I am acting in my nature as I was created to, is reward enough. That trying to do good brings its own benefits in this life that are reason enough to do it without the promise of heaven or the threat or hell. I do think the Stoics really helped me come to believe this. It’s not always easy, and I’m not perfect; I mess up sometimes, but I think I can say I try.
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I think you are wrong when you said "I don't think I can really know in this life what lies beyond this life."

Here's something you might like... Famed author and apologist, Ravi Zacharias, said that there are four questions that must be answered by any and every meaningful "worldview" (a philosophy of life). These are origin, meaning, morality, destiny.

Origin: Where did I come from?

Meaning: What does it mean to be human?

Morality: How can I differentiate between right and wrong?

Destiny: Where do I go after I die?

Only in the Christian worldview will you find the correct answers to these questions. Jesus made it very clear. He said that "They who are on the side of truth listen to me." He also said "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the father but by me." Those words are crystal-clear and absolute. You can't bend them. A true Christian is someone who believes in Christ. I don't think it's fair to call yourself a true Christian if you bend God's Word to accommodate for an integration of bull**** worldviews like Hinduism, which to me is simply Satan's tool to lead people astray.

I can tell you a story about myself when I was a devout Buddhist. It's really trippy, but it may enlighten you. It's more extreme than an acid trip, I **** you not.
 
Zombocalypse said:
I have an issue with one of the things you said. I don't think this is the only post of yours where you mentioned the necessity of "being Christ-like".

Here's the thing... Jesus, at the least, at the very very least, is the Son of God Himself. And if you are a certain type of Christian, it becomes even more extreme: Jesus is God Himself.

How can we mere humans aspire to become like a god? Let alone THE God? Not only is this non-achievable, it's a mortal sin. Are you familiar with the serpent's deception to Adam and Eve? It said something along the lines of, "If you eat of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not die. Instead, you shall become like God Himself, knowing good and evil." We can't play God. That is more than just arrogance, it's a very ****ed up kind of arrogance.

What do you have to say to this?
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I'm sorry, but are you f*****g kidding me? Are you accusing me of being a "very ****ed up kind of arrogant?" I've gone out of my way to repeatedly say that I, and all humans, are far from perfect, and we all fall short, mess up, make mistakes, and sin at times. My point was that I think we should STRIVE to do good. You seem to be forgetting the dual nature of Jesus' life and teachings. One one hand, he was the Son of God, but on the other hand, he was a man, and his VERY LIFE is perhaps his greatest teaching, the ideal that we should all strive to live by, even if it's not possible to be perfect. Yes, we all fall short at times, but I think if we aspire to be as Christ-like as possible, that is to follow the TEACHINGS AND WAY JESUS LIVED, we're on the right path. Many people say that Jesus set an impossible example, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try our best to do the same, to never hate, to love God and others, etc. If we give up before we even start, we're doomed from the start. Just because we can't be perfect doesn't mean we shouldn't even try to be as good as we can. I never even came close to saying that we should try to be God, but Christ-like, as in following the teachings of Jesus; behaving as closely to Jesus the man as possible.

But since you seem to have no problem insulting me even after I took the time to share my views, here's some fuel to the fire. I'm not saying that I believe the following or not, but just pointing out that it's been a belief some prominent people in the Church have had for ~1700 years, give or take:

"God became man so that man might become a god." -St. Athanasius (somewhere in the fourth century AD, so pretty "early" Christianity really).

My point is that it disingenuous to even suggest that there is only one true or universally accepted "Christian stance/view." Even in the first two centuries of Christianity, there were diverging schools of thought/belief, with religious officials declaring some texts and views to be gospel and others to be blasphemous. There really isn't any universal "Christian" stance, and there arguably hasn't been since Jesus and the Apostles were running the churches.
 
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