First PH Cycle Log AMS 1&4-Andro Liquid Stack 2/2018

Dubc1231

Member
What’s up guys? First post.

This will be my first PH cycle. I picked up the “Ultimate Andro Stack” from a site which included:

- AMS 1-Andro Liquid
- AMS 4-AD Liquid
- Rise and Swell
- iForce Nutrition Reversitol V2

I received the package earlier today. Bottles of Andro came with no boxes and no expiration dates on the bottles... The 4-AD was plastic wrapped with the oral syringe attached but the 1-Andro did not have the plastic wrap. Ended up finding a post on this forum from back in 2010 of someone else being a little sketched out about the same thing with the plastic wrap. The OP got a reply from ‘Royd The Noyd’ where he explained that they had early production runs of the AMS Andro Liquid without plastic wrap on the bottles but after customer concern they decided to move forward distributing all bottles with plastic wrap. Why am I so concerned about the plastic wrap? Cuz if this 1-Andro is from an early production run pre 2010-early 2010 that means I’ve just been sold and am sittin on a 7+ year old bottle of the stuff and now I’m not sure whether it should be a concern or not. What’s the shelf life on this stuff? Should I be concerned? Any way I can check the potency of the product first before ingesting?

[EDIT: retailer confirmed the liquid is from a recent run, should be gtg]

Anywho, after comparing notes with what was included in the kit with what I’ve been finding online that people use as far as OCT and PCT with their Andro stacks, I’m a little concerned about the other two products they’ve given me with the “stack”. I literally had to dig thru 20+ articles to find out whether or not to use ‘Rise and Swell’ OCT or PCT. The manufacturers website claims to use it PCT but then another thread I had previously read claimed they made it specifically for OCT. So I’m a little confused on that one and honestly couldn’t find many reviews about the quality and or proper use of ‘Rise and Swell’ either, lots of different information scattered..

The website also advertised ‘Hi-Tech Estrogenex Depot’ with the stack and on the ‘Dosing Directions Tab’ of the site it states:

“Dose all products as directed on their labels. Take 1-Andro and 4-AD liquids for the first 4 weeks, then take Rise & Swell as directed for PCT.“

The directions don’t even mention the ‘Hi-Tech Estrogenex Depot’ and when I received my package I was given ‘iForce Nutrition Reversitol V2’ instead of the Estrogenex. I figured the Reversitol V2 is for PCT. Did some more research and seen some people regretting not have a SERM on hand over Reversitol V2 they were relying on when cycling their PH’s but if I remember correctly these guys were cycling for 6-8 weeks at a time. Not sure since I’m only doing a 4 week cycle if I should be concerned that a serm will be needed. What do you think?

I am planning on taking everything how the labels say:

- 1 scoop rise and swell upon waking
- wait 10-15 Min or so
- take my first dose of 1-Andro Liquid
- 4 Hours later 4-AD dose
- 4 Hours later 1-Andro dose
- 4 Hours later 4-AD dose
- and repeat for 30 days
- then use the Reversitol for another 30 days post cycle.

Does anyone else have experience with this same “Stack”? Think I’ll be straight with what was given to me or should I upgrade my arsenal a little more to be on the safe side?

Any suggestions would be awesome. Thanks guys.
 
Hey bro,

Seen mind and muscle comment on this in your other post - made me shudder there tbh.

1/4 andro is a nice stack run at 330 pd for 8 weeks - I had a lovely time and gained 7 lean lbs after pct. main lifts up 30+ lbs (kept all strength gains.

However

30 days will leave you frustrated as the Andros don’t kick in for 3-4 weeks.

Rise and swell is a natty test booster as far as I know. Pointless taking it on cycle, save it for pct (I’ve not tried it but seen respected members say it’s ok), you need to run a serm though. Personally I used clomid but nolva would also do (run either at 50/25/25/12.5 or 20/20/10/10 respectively)

4-andro does have some e conversion so worth getting a pharma grade ai on hand (like exem), I didn’t need it and unless your gyno prone you probably won’t but it’s not the sort of thing you want to be rushing around trying to find when you wake up with bigger titties that your missus one day).

Of course you’ll need on cycle supports bro, CEL cycle assist or ar1mcare pro are good all in one choices.

There’s loads of cycle logs on here (inc mine) for 1/4 andro....have a look
 
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Whisky said:
Hey bro,

Seen mind and muscle comment on this in your other post - made me shudder there tbh.

1/4 andro is a nice stack run at 330 pd for 8 weeks - I had a lovely time and gained 7 lean lbs after pct. main lifts up 30+ lbs (kept all strength gains.

However

30 days will leave you frustrated as the Andros don’t kick in for 3-4 weeks.

Rise and swell is a natty test booster as far as I know. Pointless taking it on cycle, save it for pct (I’ve not tried it but seen respected members say it’s ok), you need to run a serm though. Personally I used clomid but nolva would also do (run either at 50/25/25/12.5 or 20/20/10/10 respectively)

4-andro does have some e conversion so worth getting a pharma grade ai on hand (like exem), I didn’t need it and unless your gyno prone you probably won’t but it’s not the sort of thing you want to be rushing around trying to find when you wake up with bigger titties that your missus one day).

Of course you’ll need on cycle supports bro, CEL cycle assist or ar1mcare pro are good all in one choices.

There’s loads of cycle logs on here (inc mine) for 1/4 andro....have a look
Click to expand...

Thank you, I appreciate the info I’ll have to see where I can get that stuff at. What should I do with the Reversitol?

Also you think the 1-4-Andro are still potent? Not sure if I’ve been sold an old bottle or not as there is no expiration dates on the bottles and the bottles did not come in a box.
 
Dubc1231 said:
Thank you, I appreciate the info I’ll have to see where I can get that stuff at. What should I do with the Reversitol?

Also you think the 1-4-Andro are still potent? Not sure if I’ve been sold an old bottle or not as there is no expiration dates on the bottles and the bottles did not come in a box.
Click to expand...

On the reversitol it’s just a natty test booster - will do the same as rise and swell really so if personally use one or the other alongside the serm and save one for another pct down the line (or run one and then follow it with the other).

On the potency and dates I have no idea. Has a lot to do with how it was stored as to what impact it potentially being old has.

People do stockpile ph’s for many years without any significant impact on potency so I’d suggest it’s probably sound.

Only one way to find out really...... you wanna ship em over to me I’ll test it out if you like lol
 
Whisky said:
On the reversitol it’s just a natty test booster - will do the same as rise and swell really so if personally use one or the other alongside the serm and save one for another pct down the line (or run one and then follow it with the other).

On the potency and dates I have no idea. Has a lot to do with how it was stored as to what impact it potentially being old has.

People do stockpile ph’s for many years without any significant impact on potency so I’d suggest it’s probably sound.

Only one way to find out really...... you wanna ship em over to me I’ll test it out if you like lol
Click to expand...

Haha thanks dude. Time to hunt down these products you mentioned.

Once I start the log I’ll be sure to finish. Noticed a lot of people seem to fall off half way thru their logs haha. Hopefully I’ll be up and running within the week. Keep you guys posted!
 
Dubc1231 said:
Haha thanks dude. Time to hunt down these products you mentioned.

Once I start the log I’ll be sure to finish. Noticed a lot of people seem to fall off half way thru their logs haha. Hopefully I’ll be up and running within the week. Keep you guys posted!
Click to expand...

Running a log is a good discipline imo. Keeps you accountable to do things right and helps gets the most from the cycle.

Good luck bro
 
Whisky said:
Running a log is a good discipline imo. Keeps you accountable to do things right and helps gets the most from the cycle.

Good luck bro
Click to expand...

One more thing. So you recommend I pick up another batch of 1/4-Andro and bust out an 8 week stack? Just a reminder this is the liquid. Bottle says every 1ML dose contains 120-140mg of the active ingredient. You mentioned doing 330mg per day? Is that a combined mg level of both the 1/4-Andro? Or 330mg 1-Andro and 330mg of 4-AD per day?

Taking two doses a day of both 1/4-Andro would put me at 240mg/day of 1-Andro and 280mg/day of 4-AD. Combined daily total of 520mg a day.

I don’t have a problem running this for 6-8 weeks. Will be perfect timing for EDC 2018! =)
 
Dubc1231 said:
One more thing. So you recommend I pick up another batch of 1/4-Andro and bust out an 8 week stack? Just a reminder this is the liquid. Bottle says every 1ML dose contains 120-140mg of the active ingredient. You mentioned doing 330mg per day? Is that a combined mg level of both the 1/4-Andro? Or 330mg 1-Andro and 330mg of 4-AD per day?

Taking two doses a day of both 1/4-Andro would put me at 240mg/day of 1-Andro and 280mg/day of 4-AD. Combined daily total of 520mg a day.

I don’t have a problem running this for 6-8 weeks. Will be perfect timing for EDC 2018! =)
Click to expand...

If I were in your shoes I’d be running 3 doses of each per day
 
Whisky said:
It’s 330+ of each you want
Click to expand...

For sure so if I do that my daily dosing schedule would probably look something like this:

8am - 1-Andro (120mg)
11am - 4-AD (140mg)
2pm - 1-Andro (120mg)
5pm - 4-AD (140mg)
8pm - 1-Andro (120mg)
11pm - 4-AD (140mg)

Also, I believe I found some Nolva (Nolvadex) online. I see you mentioned 20/20/10/10 and I’ve seen other threads state that’s a solid way to go as well.

Now does that mean one 20mg Nolva pill per day for the first two weeks of PCT. Then down to 10mg pill a day for the last two weeks for PCT? This is a one pill per day product correct?

I also found clomid on the same site and it’s $10 cheaper than Nolva. Might go that route:

CEL Cycle Assist on Amazon. $28/bottle. Going to buy 2 in case I do extend this to an 8 week cycle.

found Exemestane 25mg x 30ml LIQUID. What do you think?
 
Just bought another batch of AMS 1-Andro liquid and 4-AD liquid. But just realized even two bottles of each won’t get me to 8 weeks at 3 doses each a day. Two bottles of each gets me 120 servings of 1-Andro and 120 servings of 4-AD. 3 doses a day will give me enough to last for 40 days so just about 6 weeks I can pull off with this stuff at an above average doseage.
 
Alright so I was able to find and purchase items recommended by Whiskey so now my stack looks something like this..

On cycle:
- AMS 1-Andro Liquid (x2)
- AMS 4-AD Liquid (x2)
- CEL Cycle Assist (x2)

Post cycle:
- Rise and Swell PCT (x1)
- iForce Nutrition Reversitol V2 PCT (x1)
- Clomid PCT (60 pills x 25mg)

- Exemestane Liquid (Emergency AI) - (25mg x 30ml)

I’ll only be using either Rise and Swell or Reversitol (not both) alongside the clomid PCT and saving the other for a future cycle. Aiming to start my cycle March 8th. Will give me some time to gather up some last minute essentials.

I’ll be taking 3 doses a day of each 1-andro and 4-AD for 6 weeks spaced out 3 hours apart per dose.
 
One other thing to think about is how much you will really absorb. 10-15%? Not sure here. If it was me. I would run some oral along side the td.
 
Damn...my fault. Thought it was a Transdermal. Not too much talk about liquid andros here.
 
Well....you need to do your research and purchase from a reputable source. The best advice I can give you is to purchase from a board sponsor.
 
Got my blood tested today. Will post a picture of the results tomorrow. Start my first dose of the andros tomorrow at 8am!
 
First PH Cycle Log AMS 1&4-Andro Liquid Stack 2/2018

Blood results are in, says I have a high levels of bilirubin. Should I be concerned? Still waiting on my free test level results.

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Took my first dose of 1-Andro at 8am this morning. Hit the gym at 9am. Was feeling a little crazy during my workout haha. Didn’t take any fat burners or pre workout but I felt like I did. Had a protein shake, oatmeal and a cup of fruit (banana and raspberries) before my workout.

Today was chest/bi’s. Was my first time back in the gym in a while. Weighed myself this morning, I’m a measly 163lbs. Lost about 13+ lbs since the last time I was in the gym, (Atleast 3 months). Been slacking on my eating when I wasn’t hitting weights.

Before I was getting in 2600-2800 calories every day. Eggs, oatmeal, OJ, fruit in the am. 8oz Chicken breast, 1/2 Cup brown rice and 1/4 cup broccoli 2x a day and then 8oz chicken breast and 1/2 cup whole grain pasta post workout an hour after my post workout shake. I plan on getting the ball rolling with the same meal plan today.

I find that after about 2 months my left shoulder begins to hurt and becomes inflamed. Not sure if I have bone spurs because it’s the same area, every time and this has been happening for a long time. It’s basically the same reason that keeps me out of the gym ever since I can remember. I always start to get solid gains after about 2 months in the gym w/ proper eating then boom shoulder pain and I’m out of the game and lose it all.. I usually notice the pain once I begin doing chest press’s with dumbbells. I plan on utilizing mostly barbells the next 6 weeks to try and avoid any shoulder pain symptoms. Wish I had insurance so I could get my shoulder checked out. As of now it feels fine and I’ll be icing it at least 2x a day after each workout.

Anyways, lmk what’s up with these bilirubin levels if possible. Never heard of it before and not sure if I should be concerned. Thanks guys.
 
First PH Cycle Log AMS 1&4-Andro Liquid Stack 2/2018

3rd dose in and this stuff has me fartin’ up a storm and I’ve also sh** like 4 times today lol. Sorry if that’s “TMI” but just curious if this is normal lmao. The liquid leaves a minty after taste that turns into a slight burn/tingling sensation in my mouth haha.
 
Never used liquid andros before so I can't comment. I noticed u said u haven't been to the gym for 3 months. Not a good time to start a cycle man. You want to be well into a program when it kicks in. U need to do some rotator work, stretches, wall slides, etc. I had the same prob and that fixed me.
 
Well...since you didn't comment on my last post, I'm guessing u know that u started this too early.

You will need hold the intensity through pct and at least a month after. Lower the volume though. That will be newly formed muscle and you need to tell your body to keep it.
 
First PH Cycle Log AMS 1&4-Andro Liquid Stack 2/2018

elo76 said:
Well...since you didn't comment on my last post, I'm guessing u know that u started this too early.

You will need hold the intensity through pct and at least a month after. Lower the volume though. That will be newly formed muscle and you need to tell your body to keep it.
Click to expand...

Usually after the second week of hard training and good diet my muscle memory kicks back in and I gain a good amount of size and strength back, it’s actually crazy how it works out for me haha. But I feel you, I hadn’t read anything about wanting to be fully into a program prior to starting a cycle. This is the first I heard of that. (Beginners mistake?).

But I’ll make sure to keep the intensity strong. I plan on doing 2 days on 1 day off and repeat. On my off days ima go do this 30 Min “HIIT boot camp” session for cardio so I’ll always be active during the week. Im hoping for the best. I’ll keep you guys posted and thanks for the info!
 
Well. The theory is when you start a program, your body will make some gains due to the change. You would want the cycle to hit at the peak of the program so you can continue on where you would not be able to if you weren't enhanced. This is all stuff you will find out down the road. Just remember....never....I mean never....cut or drop cals during pct. You will lose everything. A lot of us have done it once. Including myself. If you do...u will never do it again. Just trying to help you out with mistakes that myself and others have made in the past. Even when people told us not to...lol.
 
elo76 said:
Well. The theory is when you start a program, your body will make some gains due to the change. You would want the cycle to hit at the peak of the program so you can continue on where you would not be able to if you weren't enhanced. This is all stuff you will find out down the road. Just remember....never....I mean never....cut or drop cals during pct. You will lose everything. A lot of us have done it once. Including myself. If you do...u will never do it again. Just trying to help you out with mistakes that myself and others have made in the past. Even when people told us not to...lol.
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I appreciate it my dude! I’ll def keep the calories up! Going to be aiming for 2800-3000 calories a day. I can’t believe I’m 163 lbs right now. I usually stay around 173-176. I feel pathetic right now lmao. But after two weeks like I said I gain a good amount of size and strength back. Definitely going to be stuffing my face with healthy foods. Time to eat. Haha.
 
First PH Cycle Log AMS 1&4-Andro Liquid Stack 2/2018

Here’s my meal plan I’ll be following:

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1) Breakfast:
- Eggs
- Oatmeal
- Fruit
- Toast

2) Snack:
- Chicken Breast
- Brown Rice
- Veggies

3) Lunch:
- Turkey Burger w/ Cheese

4) Snack 2:
- Chicken Breast
- Brown Rice
- Veggies

5) Post Workout Meal: (1 hour after post workout shake)
- Chicken Breast
- Pasta w/ Sauce

Need to add a little more carbs in there according to this chart.

And for daily supps I have:

- 1-Andro
- 4-AD
- CEL Cycle Support
- Multi-Vitamin
- Antioxidant
- Glucosamine
- Fish Oils
- Creatine Mono
- Glutamine
- Dextrose
- Protein Powder
- Bcaa
 
First PH Cycle Log AMS 1&4-Andro Liquid Stack 2/2018

Weekly update:

Wednesday 3/21/18 marked day 1 of week 2 into my cycle.

My starting weight and bf % was:

162.6 lbs & 17.5% bf (Day 1 Week 1)


(Day 1 Week 2)

165.6 lbs & 16.5% bf

[Weight and bf were measured early morning after waking up before eating]

For the first 3-4 days of week one my body definitely knew something foreign was being ingested as I would get slightly nauseous after dose 1 and 2 of the day. As of now I’m not getting nauseous. Overall strength into week 2 has gotten better but may just be a muscle memory thing kicking in. Up a few lbs in body weight and down 1% in bf. Haven’t done any cardio but am going to start a 30 minute HIIT program 2x a week here within the next week thru a place called “fit body boot camp”. Hopefully that’ll rev up some steady fat loss. They do 28 consecutive sessions for $70 so figured might as well give it a shot since it’s a fair price imo.

Will post again in a week.
 
First PH Cycle Log AMS 1&4-Andro Liquid Stack 2/2018

Weekly Update:

Today is day 1 of week 3:

Current weight: 166.6
Current bf: 18.5%

I knows it’s said that bf% on scales aren’t all that accurate but I do feel like I’ve lost a little fat. No crazy increase in weight (up 4 solid lbs after 2 weeks) even though I’ve been crushing 5 lean meals a day along with a protein shake in the morning, post workout shake and a casein shake before bed during week 1. Been throwing in a couple small snacks in between meals as well (protein bars). Last week I had a 9 straight day work run with 3 doubles so getting all my meals in was challenging and wasn’t able to most of the week. Got about 4/5 meals in a day this passed week.. Probably the reason for no weight gain this passed week. This week I plan on getting everything in tho.

My meal plan has been:

- 8am: protein shake w/ 1st dose of 1-Andro & OCT.

- 11am: dose of 4-AD, pb&j w/ 2 packets quick oats, 1+ cup fruit, glass of OJ.

- 12pm-1pm: (gym) then post workout shake

- 2pm: dose of 1-Andro, 8oz Chicken Breast, 3/4 cup (cooked) brown rice, 1/4 cup broccoli

- 5pm: dose of 4-AD, 8oz Chicken Breast, 3/4 cup (cooked) brown rice, 1/4 cup broccoli

- 8pm: dose of 1-Andro & OCT, Turkey Burger, a salad, and protein shake.

- 11pm: dose of 4-AD, 8oz Chicken Breast, 3/4 cup (cooked) brown rice, 1/4 cup broccoli + casein shake

Definitely have some strength increases but everything thus far has been achieved naturally in the passed so I don’t think the Andros have done any significant changes to my body/strength that I couldn’t do without it.

Haven’t added cardio in yet.

No mood swings or acne.

I’ll let y’all know how week 3 goes!
 
Has anyone else read this thread? Looks like a couple scientists going at it regarding 4-Andro. Interesting read.

anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/281334-critique-my-cycle.html
 
So ill be extending my cycle to 8 weeks instead of 6 weeks. The site i purchased my liquid AMS 1/4-andros from is sold out and the only thing I'm able to find on the market is IML Super 1 and 4-Andro RX. They're 50mg dosed/pill and the label says not to take any more than 4 pills each a day since this stuff supposedly has a 30% better absorption rate. I don't really have the funds to purchase 2 bottles of each to take 6+ pills a day. Ill be buying 1 bottle of each (IML Super 1 & 4-andro RX) and take 4 pills each a day to hit 200mg/ed, lasting me 15 days since each bottle comes with 60 servings. Hopefully this 30% enhanced absorption rate gives me the same (if not better) results than the 360mg I've been getting in with the AMS liquid. Tomorrow is day 1 of week 4 into my cycle. Ill be making a weekly update post in the morning.
 
First PH Cycle Log AMS 1&4-Andro Liquid Stack 2/2018

Weekly Update:

Today is day 1 of week 4:

Starting weight: 162.6 (day 1, week 1)
Starting bf%: 17.5% (day 1, week 1)

Current weight: 170 (up 7.4lbs)
Current bf: 18.9%

[Weight and bf were measured early morning after waking up before eating]

I can definitely tell things are starting to kick in. I’m noticing more definition in my shoulders and arms. Pumps have been gnarly, especially in my forearms and last night was back/arms day. My back was so pumped it hurt a bit. Had to ice my back when I got home then a hot shower after and the tightness subsided a bit and a I felt better. I’ve read that taurine can help with the crazy back pumps so I plan on picking some up today.

Still no crazy strength increases as of yet. I was surprised on chest day it seemed that I was puttin up the same weight as prior weeks BUT that may be because I started a new workout regime that I found here on AM and it has me doing 3 warm up sets prior to my working sets..So about 7 sets in total over the usual 4-5 sets. I got 10-12 reps all the way thru tho.

I plan on getting mid cycle blood work done next Wednesday (as suggested here on the forums).

Haven’t felt a need to use my Ai (exemestane) and haven’t been using an e-blocker on cycle either. Everything feels straight. No loss of libido, if anything it’s actually up even more haha.

No acne, no mood swings. No more nausea like week 1. Feeling pretty darn swell. Haven’t added in any HIIT cardio yet but I want to.

Looking forward to what week 4 has in store!
 
Weekly Update:

Today is day 1 of week 5:

Starting weight: 162.6 (day 1, week 1)
Starting bf%: 17.5% (day 1, week 1)

Current weight: 172 (up 9.4lbs)
Current bf: 19.5%

[Weight and bf were measured early morning after waking up before eating]

Gained a couple pounds but also up another 1% or so in bf. Downloaded this app called “MyPlate” to help me track my calories. It’s got everything down to the T as far as utilizing this barcode scanner on all the foods I use and allows me to input specific amounts and create meals from scratch which has been pretty cool. I got in 3,500 calories every day this week. My macros have been steady @ 25% fats/40% carbs/35% protein. I did chest/shoulders on day one. And by the 3rd day after my chest workout I did back with supersets of more chest in between. By the second chest workout (with back) I was putting up 10-15 more lbs (3 sets 10reps all the way thru) than I could do when I just did chest alone. I believe my strength increases are definitely about to start coming thru. I really need to start hitting cardio and shedding some of this fat. I have 5.5 weeks until the festival and from what it looks like I’ve gone from 162.2lbs to 172lbs but I’ve also gone from 17.5%bf to 19.5% bf and if I’m calculating that correctly that’s a 5lb increase in fat alone. So the other 5 I’ve gained could be muscle and water combined. I picked up some Hi-Tech 1-Test & Hi-Tech Androdiol to finish the last two weeks of my cycle. I have been getting slight headaches the last few days near the end of my day, not sure if it’s cuz of the andros or what. Overall nothing crazy has happened. Hopefully the next 4 weeks has me like “woah :)” haha. Everything thus far i have achieved naturally in the passed with the same high caloric intake and workout regime, nothing thus far I’d give a huge thanks to the andros imo. I have before and after pictures I’ll post at the end of my log (starting pics, day 1 week 5 pics, end of cycle pics, end of pct pics, and I also have pics of when I was 178lbs ‘natural’ after a few months of solid training). Forearm pumps have been crazy! We’ll see what week 5 has in store.
 
First PH Cycle Log AMS 1&4-Andro Liquid Stack 2/2018

I just found out that for every 1ML of the AMS 1-andro liquid it really only has 20mg of 1-andro and the rest (100mg) is their liposome delivery matrix to total 120mg of their “proprietary blend”. The bottle itself doesn’t show how much 1-andro it actually has per ML it just shows 120mg/ML per serving of the “blend” which I did not recognize until now, and didn’t find out exactly how much 1-andro/ML the liquid has until I did a little extra research online. They claim that 100% of the 20mg 1-andro absorbs when in combination of their delivery matrix.....I’ve been taking 3 doses a day with the impression I was getting in 360/mg of 1-andro, so really I guess I’ve only been getting 60mg of 1-andro/day for the passed 4 weeks. I know everyone on the forums recommends 330/mg which is what I thought I was doing. Not sure if I should be upset about not seeing this before or what.

I just picked up hi-tech 1-test and androdiol to finish my last 2 weeks of my 8 week cycle. The 1-test clearly states on the bottle 110mg of 1-andro and 50mg of bergamottin. Wish I would’ve found the 1-test sooner and ran that for 8 weeks now. I kinda feel duped here.

What do you guys think??? Should I ditch the ams liquid, grab another bottle of each 1-test and androdiol and finish my last 4 weeks with the hi-tech product because it looks like I’ll actually be getting 330mg/day with their product over this 60mg with ams....
 
I think what I’m just going to do is take the 1-test and androdiol as directed. Two pills a day of each, then end my nights with 1 liquid dose of each 1/4-andros until the bottles run out. I should have about 6-7 days left of the liquids so that’s between 18-21/ml of each left. So 18-21 days worth of topping my nights off with the liquids. I’ll just see how it goes I guess and take this as a learning lesson for my next cycle. I’m going to grab a couple bottles each of super Mandro And andro the Giant while they’re back in stock and save them For later on this year when I run another cycle. 90 servings at 110mg/serving, one bottle per 30 days, now that’s what I like to see haha.
 
First PH Cycle Log AMS 1&4-Andro Liquid Stack 2/2018

I found a lot of information regarding absorption rates based on the research study in 2013 in Texas w/ 1-Andro @ 330/mg a day doseage compared to recent Cyclosome delivery system (added in 2016 I believe) w/ Hi-Tech products, which boosts the absorption rate, leading you to only need the recommended dosing amounts the bottles say (specifically on hi-tech products with Cyclosome delivery system).

I think I’m just going to stick with that this first run and see how it goes and know how to move forward in the future for a next cycle.

blog.priceplow.com/supplement-news/cyclosome-liposome-cyclodextrin

In the article listed above they state that another tested poorly water soluble substance (curcumin/not DHEA) that also has a 3-6% absorption rate with no delivery system, combined with the Cyclosome delivery agent boosted its absorption up to 90%. They say they haven’t yet ran the actual tests on if DHEA will absorb 90% but since (curcumin) did with Cyclosome, they believe we can absorb just as much of their products (Hi-Tech w/ Cyclosome) if not more than what the 2013 Texas 1-Andro study was able to achieve with just the recommended dosage. The 2013 Texas study had their lab rats (humans) ingest 330mg/day (no Cyclosome Delivery) and only absorbed 3-6% leading to a daily absorption of about 20mg/day.

Now this leads me back to my AMS 1/4-Andro issue. If the Texas study testers only absorbed 20mg/day then you should be able to reach the same results with the AMS 1/4-andro liquid since they state there is 20mg/ML of 1-andro that has an absorption rate of up to 100% (not sure how true that is though) because of their liquid delivery system. And taking 2-3 doses a day of the AMS liquid would put you up to 40-60mg/day (if the Absorption rate in fact is 100%). The Texas study shows results as of 4 weeks running, but after 4 weeks of (3 - 1ML doses a day of both ams 1/4-andro) I really didn’t see any super crazy exciting results like case studies have shown so I doubt the absorption rate is 100%.

I’m excited to see what my last month on cycle has in store. I’m going to take 2 doses each a day of the hi tech 1-test and androdiol as the recommended dosage says and then top my nights off with 1 dose of each ams 1/4-andro liquid till the bottles run out and see how that does me. According to this research I should be able to achieve way more than 20/mg a day (post absorption) with the recommended hi-tech dosing alone so topping my nights off with the ams liquid should be a plus. We’ll see what happens I guess. Wish me luck lol.
 
First PH Cycle Log AMS 1&4-Andro Liquid Stack 2/2018

Weekly Update:

Today is day 1 of week 6: (25 days left into cycle)

Starting weight: 162.6 (day 1, week 1)
Starting bf%: 17.5% (day 1, week 1)

Current weight: 174.4(up almost 12lbs)
Current bf: 19.4%

[Weight and bf were measured early morning after waking up before eating]

Switched over the hi-tech 1-test and androdiol. Taking recommended dosage of 2 pills of each per day then topping my nights off with one dose of each of my ams 1/4-andro liquids. Still haven’t experienced anything crazy. Read some other posts people talk about a “Superman” feeling. Def don’t feel like Superman lol. Decent strength increases, nothing crazy. During week 5 about 4/7 days that week I have been experiencing headaches. Not sure if it’s the andros or if it’s cuz I’m tired of coming home to dog **** on my kitchen floor. Been heavily utilizing the app “my plate”. Been getting in between 3200-3500 calories a day. This passed weekend I went to California to visit family. Didn’t hit the gym for a few days but kept my cals up. This week I’m back in, still eating a lot. Again, nothing thus far I don’t think I couldn’t have achieved naturally. We’ll see what this week has in store.
 
Dubc1231 said:
Weekly Update:

Today is day 1 of week 6: (25 days left into cycle)

Starting weight: 162.6 (day 1, week 1)
Starting bf%: 17.5% (day 1, week 1)

Current weight: 174.4(up almost 12lbs)
Current bf: 19.4%

[Weight and bf were measured early morning after waking up before eating]

Switched over the hi-tech 1-test and androdiol. Taking recommended dosage of 2 pills of each per day then topping my nights off with one dose of each of my ams 1/4-andro liquids. Still haven’t experienced anything crazy. Read some other posts people talk about a “Superman” feeling. Def don’t feel like Superman lol. Decent strength increases, nothing crazy. During week 5 about 4/7 days that week I have been experiencing headaches. Not sure if it’s the andros or if it’s cuz I’m tired of coming home to dog **** on my kitchen floor. Been heavily utilizing the app “my plate”. Been getting in between 3200-3500 calories a day. This passed weekend I went to California to visit family. Didn’t hit the gym for a few days but kept my cals up. This week I’m back in, still eating a lot. Again, nothing thus far I don’t think I couldn’t have achieved naturally. We’ll see what this week has in store.
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Something doesn’t seem quite right bro - no question I knew I was achieving things I couldn’t do natty on my first run....
 
Whisky said:
Something doesn’t seem quite right bro - no question I knew I was achieving things I couldn’t do natty on my first run....
Click to expand...

Well like i mentioned previously, I had been out of the gym for a few months prior to the cycle. In the passed I’ve gone from mid 160’s/lbs up to 178lbs in 2.5-3 months. Obviously I’m sure half of my gains have been fat as well as muscle memory kicking into gear. Strength gains haven’t been too crazy imo. Nothing I haven’t seen myself do in the passed. Other than muscle hardness I haven’t noticed anything I haven’t achieved naturally in the passed within the time frame I’ve been back in the gym. I’ve been eating a lot and gaining steady weight but I know Atleast 3.5-4lbs of my 12lb gain is probably fat and I’m sure there’s some water weight to factor in there as well. Maybe my first 30 days with the AMS liquids was a waste cuz of the low dosage I later found out about? Idk...
 
First PH Cycle Log AMS 1&4-Andro Liquid Stack 2/2018

The last time I was out of the gym for a couple months because of a shoulder injury and when I got back into the gym around beginning July 2017 and by mid September 2017 I was 178lbs and looked a lot bigger and had a lot more strength than I do currently and that was all natural. I was getting in the same foods and calories I am currently taking in. Was basically on the same meal plan. I have pictures I’ll post at the end of my log with comparisons. I think the lack of effectiveness of the andros points to the low dosed ams liquids I was on for the first 30 days. I thought I was getting in 120mg/ML to later find out it was really only 20mg/ml

Around mid September 2017 I fell off my gym routine again because of some personal **** that went down that left me sick to my stomach. I was bed ridden and was eating 1 packet of oatmeal a day for almost two weeks. I lost all my gains and since then I didn’t get back into the gym until recently (March 14th) that’s why my starting weight was 162lbs this time around.
 
First PH Cycle Log AMS 1&4-Andro Liquid Stack 2/2018

I guess what I’m saying is I basically feel like I’m not on anything really and the steady gains fat/water/muscle feel the same way they feel when I get back into the gym and take my diet and workout regime serious (naturally). All of this I guess I’m comparing to the Texas study where they found an average of a 9-10lb lean muscle mass gain and a 4lb loss of fat on 330/mg for 30 days in their test subjects. There’s no way I’ve gained 9-10lbs of lean muscle in the passed 30 days (currently 35 days in) and I definitely haven’t been losing fat lol. Theres been a couple times in the gym where my pumps have been really intense and I had thought “ok the andros must be kicking in”. I push my limits every workout, idk we’ll see what happens in the next few weeks now that I’m on the hi-tech stuff. The only thing I can think of why I don’t think I’ve gotten the same results as the test subjects is because I basically wasted the first 30 days of my time ****ing with the low dosed ams liquid and got duped by their tricky labelling on the bottle. The bottle states there is 120mg/ml of their “proprietary blend”, I hadn’t noticed that when I first started. I thought it said 120mg/ml of 1/4-andro, I was wrong. Didn’t realize until further research that each ML only has 20mg of the andros in it. The entire time I thought I had been getting in 120mg/ML of 1/4 andro a day (3 doses a day/360mg). That’s why I decided to switch over to the hi-tech stuff cuz Atleast their bottles state exactly what’s in their **** mg/mg and not some tricky labelling BS.

There’s been numerous times I’ve gotten focused and hit the gym for a few solids months then either I injure my shoulder and I’m out of the game or personal financial issues with work cause me to fall off. It’s been a battle trying to get in shape and maintaining what I gain. I caught a battery charge in September 2015 and then my most recent job lost their mAin property a year ago and I was out of work for a while, had a real tough time making ends meet. I lost everything. I’ve been offered 5 full time job offers in the last 8 months from huge event production companies (im in the audio visual field) but to later have the offers retracted because of my battery misdemeanor I got in 2015. That threw me into a depression and I’m barely starting to get back on my feet. Life’s been a bitch the passed few years and I’m hoping it’s only up from here. I feel good and I’m more focused than ever with the gym, life and work in general. I’ve hopped onto a handful of freelance companies that don’t run background checks but work isn’t alwYs consistent. Trying my best to stay afloat and I think I’ll be straight from here on out. So hopefully once I gain some size back I can keep it going for the long run!

My daily caloric intake has consisted of the following foods:

Breakfast:
- 2 packets instant oatmeal
- 1 banana
- 1/4 cup blueberries
- Premier protein shake
- glass of OJ

Meal 2: (3 Hours later)
- 1 cup cooked brown rice
- 8oz raw/5oz cooked chicken breast
- 1/4 cup broccoli
- 2tbs bbq sauce

Meal 3: (3 Hours Later)
- 1 cup cooked brown rice
- 8oz raw/5oz cooked chicken breast
- 1/4 cup broccoli
- 2tbs bbq sauce

Snack: (1-2 hours later)
- Premier Protein Bar

Meal 4: (3 Hours after meal 3)
- Turkey Burger w/ cheese
- 2 cup salad

Post Workout Shake:
- 2 scoops syntha-6 protein powder w/ 2 tbs dextrose

Meal 5: (1-1.5 Hours after post Workout Shake)
- 1/4 cup cooked brown rice
- 8oz raw/5oz cooked chicken breast
- 1/4 cup broccoli
- 2tbs bbq sauce
- 1tbs olive oil

Before bed “snack”
- 1 scoop muscle pharm casein powder

And repeat.
 
I’m going to aim to do another PH cycle 3 months after my PCT is over. I’m going to aim for hi-tech products 1-test and androdiol OR the Super Mandro and andro the Giant for 60 days followed by 30 days PCT. These products are the only ones I’ve found that have clearly stated the mg/mg in their products without any shady labeling.
 
Dubc1231 said:
I’m going to aim to do another PH cycle 3 months after my PCT is over. I’m going to aim for hi-tech products 1-test and androdiol OR the Super Mandro and andro the Giant for 60 days followed by 30 days PCT. These products are the only ones I’ve found that have clearly stated the mg/mg in their products without any shady labeling.
Click to expand...

Super mandro and the giant always get decent feedback from what I’ve seen
 
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