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Clenbuterol bs alpha yohimbine for fat lass

Davy25

Davy25

Active member
These are the two strongest fat loss compounds/ substances that i am aware of. My current cycle ends right around the begining of summer and im looking to essentially re-comp and mantaim relatively low bf. Which is the better option or if there is anything stronger with moderate sides/ not hormonal can you guys suggest something?
 
clen is way more hardcore than yohimbine... not even close

positive and negative side effect wise

you dont buy clen at a supplement shop.

that said, its the most effective/least negative sides balance(imo) you'll get from the cutting drugs out there that you seem to not be asking for.... t3, dnp, hgh, etc...

similar to clen and yohimbine, theres real ephedrine, but clen is harsher

seems like you need to look into it a little better before jumping into though if you are comparing it to yohimbine
 
Moreso looking for different compounds i can look more in depth into and then decide if they are worth it to me.

Im not opposed to hormonal compounds but i would be using this in pct / time off so hgh *mk 677* would be alright but nothing that alters test levels / fsh/ sbg etc... levels
 
I wouldnt use clen during pct...

You should be trying to keep your gains during pct... Dropping calories(which is something you are going to have to do in order to acheive what you would be trying with clen) during that time would not be advisable
 
Davy25 said:
These are the two strongest fat loss compounds/ substances that i am aware of. My current cycle ends right around the begining of summer and im looking to essentially re-comp and mantaim relatively low bf. Which is the better option or if there is anything stronger with moderate sides/ not hormonal can you guys suggest something?
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You should put post this in the fat loss section, as this is the anabolic section, and fat loss is the complete opposite of anabolism
 
He didn’t ask about fat loss, he described what everyone is trying to do post cycle. Why does Clen need a drop in calories to work? Above all, it is a nutrient partitioner and PCT is a great time to use it. Clen and Yohimbe are totally different compounds. Some people react much more ‘harshly’ to Yohimbe. It has like 47 different metabolites anyway, so it seems moronic to compare them. And judging a compound by whether it is available over the counter or not is ridiculous. We had M1Test, Pheraplex, Superdrol all over the counter for years. You need a prescription for all kinds of benign substances.
The goals of PCT are suppression of estrogen and cortisol mainly, while getting your own endogenous androgen production back to normal as quickly as possible. Clenbuterol has anti-Catabolic properties and will not interfere or prolong attempts to regulate HPTA axis. It is not enough on it’s own but with or without Yohimbe will certainly help you keep your gains.
 
Evan Bageris said:
He didn’t ask about fat loss, he described what everyone is trying to do post cycle. Why does Clen need a drop in calories to work? Above all, it is a nutrient partitioner and PCT is a great time to use it. Clen and Yohimbe are totally different compounds. Some people react much more ‘harshly’ to Yohimbe. It has like 47 different metabolites anyway, so it seems moronic to compare them. And judging a compound by whether it is available over the counter or not is ridiculous. We had M1Test, Pheraplex, Superdrol all over the counter for years. You need a prescription for all kinds of benign substances.
The goals of PCT are suppression of estrogen and cortisol mainly, while getting your own endogenous androgen production back to normal as quickly as possible. Clenbuterol has anti-Catabolic properties and will not interfere or prolong attempts to regulate HPTA axis. It is not enough on it’s own but with or without Yohimbe will certainly help you keep your gains.
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1)Why does Clen need a drop in calories to work?
-Usually people use clen to cut, which you will need a caloric deficit for. The drug will have an effect on your body either way, you just wont see fat loss if your diet isnt matching your goals.

2)Some people react much more ‘harshly’ to Yohimbe
-ive never seen anyone report being shaky to the point of not being able to hold a fork when eating

3)And judging a compound by whether it is available over the counter or not is ridiculous. We had M1Test, Pheraplex, Superdrol all over the counter for years.
-yes, and then they got banned. thats a technicallity because of how american law works, not an argument

4)The goals of PCT are suppression of estrogen and cortisol mainly, while getting your own endogenous androgen production back to normal as quickly as possible.
-a couple of... and these goals are for what reason????? maintain the mass you put on... so going on a caloric deficit is still a contradiction anyway

5)Clenbuterol has anti-Catabolic properties
-thats been largely exagerated... it might have AC properties, but its not like it will 100% make you hold every pound you gained, specially if you are cutting, which is not his case. i get that. but then i guess there would be other stuff, less detrimental to health that could be used

I have seen the point of people who use it on pct. i just dont agree with that train of thought...
 
HAMinTheTrap said:
1)Why does Clen need a drop in calories to work?
-Usually people use clen to cut, which you will need a caloric deficit for. The drug will have an effect on your body either way, you just wont see fat loss if your diet isnt matching your goals.

2)Some people react much more ‘harshly’ to Yohimbe
-wut? lol ive never seen anyone report being shaky to the point of not being able to hold a fork right when feeding

3)And judging a compound by whether it is available over the counter or not is ridiculous. We had M1Test, Pheraplex, Superdrol all over the counter for years.
-yes, and then they got banned. thats a technicallity because of how american law works, not an argument

4)The goals of PCT are suppression of estrogen and cortisol mainly, while getting your own endogenous androgen production back to normal as quickly as possible.
-a couple of... and these goals are for what reason????? maintain the mass you put on... so going on a caloric deficit is still a contradiction anyway

5)Clenbuterol has anti-Catabolic properties
-thats a "myth" thats been largely exagerated over the years... it might have AC properties, but its not like it will 100% make you hold every pound you gained
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I understand wanting to maintain gains made while on cycle, but armt you much more susceptible to gaining a bunch of fat post cycle as your test levels are very low? Therefore i think maintenance calories + clen doesnt sound like a bad idea?
 
Davy25 said:
I understand wanting to maintain gains made while on cycle, but armt you much more susceptible to gaining a bunch of fat post cycle as your test levels are very low? Therefore i think maintenance calories + clen doesnt sound like a bad idea?
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i understand this line of thinking has been promoted in the use of clen, but im not that sure its really worth it.

with that line of thinking people would be using cutting supps and drugs for bulking all the time whether enhanced or not. "oh let me use this drug that helps me cut fat while i bulk so i dont get as fat as i would".... see what im saying?

im not sure you'd get fat in a month/month and a half (pct length) if your diet is decent this fast.

thats just how i see it, i guess others may disagree
 
Davy25 said:
These are the two strongest fat loss compounds/ substances that i am aware of. My current cycle ends right around the begining of summer and im looking to essentially re-comp and mantaim relatively low bf. Which is the better option or if there is anything stronger with moderate sides/ not hormonal can you guys suggest something?
Click to expand...

DNP is the strongest hands down. You'd be crazy to use it though
 
Regarding the clen as a muscle preserver i heard this is primarily when stacked with T3.

Any other suggestions for fat burning compounds? Any insight on Ketotifen?
 
HAMinTheTrap said:
clen is way more hardcore than yohimbine... not even close

positive and negative side effect wise

you dont buy clen at a supplement shop.

that said, its the most effective/least negative sides balance(imo) you'll get from the cutting drugs out there that you seem to not be asking for.... t3, dnp, hgh
Click to expand...

Actually yohimbe feels the worst by far for me and I have to ramp the dose up slowly. Results wise clen and eca seem about the same to me so I usually just go the eca route since I can get it at supermarkets. yohimbe plus fasting works best for me but it takes about two weeks to build up to my target dose. If I increase to fast I feel horrible.
 
Jstrong20 said:
Actually yohimbe feels the worst by far for me and I have to ramp the dose up slowly. Results wise clen and eca seem about the same to me so I usually just go the eca route since I can get it at supermarkets. yohimbe plus fasting works best for me but it takes about two weeks to build up to my target dose. If I increase to fast I feel horrible.
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interesting... ive only used yohimbe in products with proprietary blends, so its hard for me to do a perfect comparisson, and ive done ECA allright...
but clen definitely felt the worse... the hand shakiness is scary AF...

i guess to each its own.
 
Davy25 said:
Regarding the clen as a muscle preserver i heard this is primarily when stacked with T3.

Any other suggestions for fat burning compounds? Any insight on Ketotifen?
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i think its usually stacked with T3 because of clens side effect of stopping T4 to T3 conversion (from depleting taurine levels)... but people supplement from 3-5g of taurine daily in order to avoid that as well... also, the sinergy aspect fits really well together with these two... but thats for fat loss... i though you case was PCT... T3 is definitely catabolic though so keep that in mind

ketotfen is used in order to clean your receptors so you can keep taking it for longer periods instead of the usual 2 weeks on... but i wouldnt recommend that. prolongued use of clen is detrimental to your health... however, if you intend to take it for the full length of PCT it may be advisable
take 1mg before bed, as it can make some people drowsy/sleepy and also hungry
 
Evan Bageris said:
He didn’t ask about fat loss, he described what everyone is trying to do post cycle. Why does Clen need a drop in calories to work? Above all, it is a nutrient partitioner and PCT is a great time to use it. Clen and Yohimbe are totally different compounds. Some people react much more ‘harshly’ to Yohimbe. It has like 47 different metabolites anyway, so it seems moronic to compare them. And judging a compound by whether it is available over the counter or not is ridiculous. We had M1Test, Pheraplex, Superdrol all over the counter for years. You need a prescription for all kinds of benign substances.
The goals of PCT are suppression of estrogen and cortisol mainly, while getting your own endogenous androgen production back to normal as quickly as possible. Clenbuterol has anti-Catabolic properties and will not interfere or prolong attempts to regulate HPTA axis. It is not enough on it’s own but with or without Yohimbe will certainly help you keep your gains.
Click to expand...
Show me any data based evidence of anti catabolic effects of clenbuterol in humans.
 
If you want to prevent cortisol in pct, take 6 caps of reduce xt each day.

If you want fat loss inject amp-5 (adenosine mono phosphate-5) you’ll experience overall fat loss, increased vasodilation, and localized fat loss in the area injected.
Stack it wil injectable l-carnitine and injectable yohimbine for even more results,

Quit the bull shiit. This is the real shiit.
AMP-5 200mg/ml
 
What kind of evidence? It’s an asthma medication, and it’s not approved in the USA.
Probably not going to be a whole lot in pubmed about the anti catabolic effects o f clenbuterol in humans. Who would fund such a study? Why would anyone care outside this little subculture. It wouldn’t be in English anyway.
 
Evan Bageris said:
What kind of evidence? It’s an asthma medication, and it’s not approved in the USA.
Probably not going to be a whole lot in pubmed about the anti catabolic effects o f clenbuterol in humans. Who would fund such a study? Why would anyone care outside this little subculture. It wouldn’t be in English anyway.
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Clen isn’t used by humans in the us, but it is in Europe.
you obviously don’t research much based off your response.
It’s an asthma medication, but it’s also a performance enhancing drug.
 
To the op:
If you want to go balls to the wall, Forget my top post and go the stim route?
Don’t bs with oral, here’s my Helios thread:
Invalid Link Removed

But likes been said: anabolism ( fat gain, muscle gain) and catabolism (fat loss, muscle loss) typically don’t go hand in hand, at least not naturally,
 
brofessorx said:
Clen isn’t used by humans in the us, but it is in Europe.
you obviously don’t research much based off your response.
It’s an asthma medication, but it’s also a performance enhancing drug.
Click to expand...

Easy there. Yes it is used in Europe. And Asia. That’s why I said it wouldn’t be in English. It’s OK, look at all the prizes you’ve won. You clearly hang much lower than I do. You can have this win. I don’t even know how to play. Deep breaths.
 
Evan Bageris said:
Easy there. Yes it is used in Europe. And Asia. That’s why I said it wouldn’t be in English. It’s OK, look at all the prizes you’ve won. You clearly hang much lower than I do. You can have this win. I don’t even know how to play. Deep breaths.
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Welcome to anabolic minds, glad you have thick skin. :banana:
 
Evan Bageris said:
What’s that? I am just being stupid, I am sorry. You have really good things to say. I really do apologize. I wasn’t responding to you, just being immature and ridiculous. Hope you can forgive me.
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I enjoy this back and forth banter. Although it might be me trolling? Hmm not sure? Invalid Link Removed
 
Oh, I was serious. About my apology and I really don’t know what trolling is, but I am sure it was me. Peace, and best of luck.
 
Evan Bageris said:
Oh, I was serious. About my apology and I really don’t know what trolling is, but I am sure it was me. Peace, and best of luck.
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I found this cool flow chart: although I don’t think any actual insults were thrown:
Invalid Link Removed
 
Evan Bageris said:
Ham in the trap, are you familiar with the Dunning-Kruger effect? Just curious.
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im familiar with you being a little **** and getting proved wrong by me and others and not providing any actual factual rebuttal besides only acting like a douche and trying to offend people, while doing nothing to try to help the OP or contribute to knowledgeable discussion

im done with you... this is my last reply. foook off kid
 
Can we get back on track here? For me personally I noticed very little side effects from Clen unless I exceed 120 micrograms a day. Yohimbine on the other hand bothers me and mentally. I can't even tolerate it at low doses it causes Tremors hyperhidrosis and Jack's the hell out of my blood pressure. everybody is different and responds differently to the same drugs. and I don't know about scientific evidence but I always use Clen PCT weather fat loss is a goal or not I find that it helps me keep my strength up
 
Viator77 said:
Can we get back on track here? For me personally I noticed very little side effects from Clen unless I exceed 120 micrograms a day. Yohimbine on the other hand bothers me and mentally. I can't even tolerate it at low doses it causes Tremors hyperhidrosis and Jack's the hell out of my blood pressure. everybody is different and responds differently to the same drugs. and I don't know about scientific evidence but I always use Clen PCT weather fat loss is a goal or not I find that it helps me keep my strength up
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See, it’s the opposite for me, clen makes me jittery af, always, but after a couple days I adjusted to yohimbine quickly.
 
HAMinTheTrap said:
im familiar with you being a little **** and getting proved wrong by me and others and not providing any actual factual rebuttal besides only acting like a douche and trying to offend people, while doing nothing to try to help the OP or contribute to knowledgeable discussion

im done with you... this is my last reply. foook off kid
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Well judging by the fact this guy has been around since 2005 and his posting history indicates to me he is very switched on. I am amazed he has been so reserved and held his cool with you.

Your responses haven’t proven anything (nothing with science is ever really “proven”), you have made a few observations from what you have seen and read, cool. Doesn’t mean its right or even relevant to what he was saying for that matter.

Beta-agonists are one of the most used(abused) compounds in the sporting world, why do you think soo many athletes have “asthma”.. because their performance enhancing effects are undeniable, im not gonna use the word proven but you get the point, im sure.

Irrespective of the potential anti-catabolic properties of which are shown in humans, albeit in disease populations afaik with clen (Invalid Link Removed), the performance enhancing effect during the initial stages of this pct allowing you to maintain volume and intensity is huge when it comes to maintaining your gains while you restore endocrine homeostasis.

Anyways feel free to give me flak like you have with this other guy. Happy to go toe to toe with you.
 
NoAddedHmones said:
(Invalid Link Removed) .
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That was a very good read. Thank you. The dosages used in men for clen was surprising to read.

To me, an account with a join date of 2005, and only 35 post is intriguing.
A lot is left to assume.
Also to points out, this study was done in China, and we had no trouble reading it in English. :smoker:
 
NoAddedHmones said:
Well judging by the fact this guy has been around since 2005 and his posting history indicates to me he is very switched on. I am amazed he has been so reserved and held his cool with you.

Your responses haven’t proven anything (nothing with science is ever really “proven”), you have made a few observations from what you have seen and read, cool. Doesn’t mean its right or even relevant to what he was saying for that matter.

Beta-agonists are one of the most used(abused) compounds in the sporting world, why do you think soo many athletes have “asthma”.. because their performance enhancing effects are undeniable, im not gonna use the word proven but you get the point, im sure.

Irrespective of the potential anti-catabolic properties of which are shown in humans, albeit in disease populations afaik with clen (Invalid Link Removed), the performance enhancing effect during the initial stages of this pct allowing you to maintain volume and intensity is huge when it comes to maintaining your gains while you restore endocrine homeostasis.

Anyways feel free to give me flak like you have with this other guy. Happy to go toe to toe with you.
Click to expand...

First off i didnt say i proved anything on the clen thing(okay i might have generalized that). But mostly, I said he didnt... acting douchey while providing no evidence is the issue here.
Second i didnt give him flak regarding clen, i gave him flak for being douchey, and gave my opinion on the matter. So im not sure what you expect me to go "toe to toe" with you. Ive said what i had to say, if you disagree, fine. Ive said in this thread probably more than once that others may disagree.

Im not sure whats your deal with me. Seems like you are the one trying to give me flak here.
 
Davy25 said:
Clen will not effect the thyroid / hormones, correct?
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hyperthyroidism is one of the possible side effects of clem... ive already posted about this in this thread... it can halt T4 to T3 conversion from depleting liver taurine levels... thats why some supplement with 3-5g of taurine alongside with it

seems like my opinions either get ignored or attacked around here... lol
 
HAMinTheTrap said:
hyperthyroidism is one of the possible side effects of clem... ive already posted about this in this thread... it can halt T4 to T3 conversion from depleting liver taurine levels... thats why you should supplement with 3-5 of taurine alongside with it

seems like my opinions either get ignored or attacked around here... lol
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Gotta have thick skin brohama, roll with the punches and don’t take anything on the interwebz personal, good or bad.
The taurine info is good, thanks.
 
HAMinTheTrap said:
hyperthyroidism is one of the possible side effects of clem... ive already posted about this in this thread... it can halt T4 to T3 conversion from depleting liver taurine levels... thats why some supplement with 3-5g of taurine alongside with it

seems like my opinions either get ignored or attacked around here... lol
Click to expand...

I dont really gaf about taurine, if i notice back pumps or anything of the sort i'd supplement taurine but moreso concerned about halting LH or FSH while in PCT that would effect test getting back to homeostasis as eluded to previously.
 
HAMinTheTrap said:
First off i didnt say i proved anything on the clen thing(okay i might have generalized that). But mostly, I said he didnt... acting douchey while providing no evidence is the issue here.
Second i didnt give him flak regarding clen, i gave him flak for being douchey, and gave my opinion on the matter. So im not sure what you expect me to go "toe to toe" with you. Ive said what i had to say, if you disagree, fine. Ive said in this thread probably more than once that others may disagree.

Im not sure whats your deal with me. Seems like you are the one trying to give me flak here.
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Just as an outsider reading the conversation you guys were having, I just saw him give some pretty good info on why Clen is quite an attractive compound to utilize in PCT and your response was much more condescending where you dismissed each point he wrote and provided no real actual facts or data as to why what he said was in correct. Then it just turned into a standard AM pissing match lol.

Anways im not attacking you, just calling it as I see it (not that my opinion should really mean anything).
 
Davy25 said:
I dont really gaf about taurine, if i notice back pumps or anything of the sort i'd supplement taurine but moreso concerned about halting LH or FSH while in PCT that would effect test getting back to homeostasis as eluded to previously.
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If you are going to run Clen at bro doses, Taurine is pretty important thing to ensure does not get depleted chronically. He makes a very good point in regards to thyroid output.

I would also very much recommend using an ACE-inhibitor such as telimasartan while on clen
 
NoAddedHmones said:
Just as an outsider reading the conversation you guys were having, I just saw him give some pretty good info on why Clen is quite an attractive compound to utilize in PCT and your response was much more condescending where you dismissed each point he wrote and provided no real actual facts or data as to why what he said was in correct. Then it just turned into a standard AM pissing match lol.

Anways im not attacking you, just calling it as I see it (not that my opinion should really mean anything).
Click to expand...

Well, instead of engaging into a decent discussion and replying with why id be wrong regarding what i was saying and attacking my points he went to the "you are dumb" reply without providing any argument

and as you could see if you kept reading the thread, also insulted another member...

anyway, lets put this to bed man, i already stated, if you guys disagree with me fine, feel free to give me your opinions/provide proof and change my mind
 
Davy25 said:
I dont really gaf about taurine, if i notice back pumps or anything of the sort i'd supplement taurine but moreso concerned about halting LH or FSH while in PCT that would effect test getting back to homeostasis as eluded to previously.
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i think you might be confusing taurine supplementation with potassium supplementation?
 
No, i dont believe i am. My understanding is taurine deficency on anabolics leads to the back pump feel. Other than that i guess im not sure what taurine does.
 
Davy25 said:
No, i dont believe i am. My understanding is taurine deficency on anabolics leads to the back pump feel. Other than that i guess im not sure what taurine does.
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ok, sorry... i thought you were talking about cramps... english not my first language

taurine itself has a series of different functions... i cant say i know them really, but you could easily google that up.

for people who lift i guess the most important ones are associated with energy levels through increased fat oxidation... not sure or know much about it too, also got something to do with cell volume, but again, not sure these have been proven really
 
I always taurine supplementation w/ clenbuterol was to prevent muscle cramping. It does eliminate cramping seen w/ clen.

Is there any chance that clenbuterol lowers T4 to T3 conversion simply because most people use it with a restricted calorie diet, which does the same thing. so in effect it's the restricted calories messing with the thyroid hormones not the clenbuterol?
 
You should still supplement with taurine on clen, even if you don't get the muscle cramps. In addition to depleting taurine levels in skeletal muscle, clen also depletes it in cardiac muscle, which you probably don't want to do. In fairness, it's not clear if oral supplementation prevents or reverses this in cardiac tissue when on clen, but why take the chance? Taurine is cheap as s***
 
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