Donald Trump running for president
- Thread starter LiftWithDonuts
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cubsfan815
Well-known member
Americans get entitled and don't want half those jobs. I know people who make more money playing the unemployment/ welfare game than they would working those jobs.
However, they will quickly complain that an immigrant stole their job lmao. The whole country is in the ****ter.
thebigt
Legend
dude...you are full of it. I bet you money you would screw things up your 1st day of flipping burgers at macdonalds, lol.
Aleksandar37
Well-known member
Gramps can't even spell it correctly. Fail!
jswain34
Well-known member
While i agree with this, it doesnt mean that after what, a week of training (?..or less), hed be a pretty damn good burger flipper. Im assuming you probably cant say that about what he does. Nor disprove the point he's making.
thebigt
Legend
damn democrat...
thebigt
Legend
I agree, after a week or two of intense training he would be a darned good burger flipper!!!
jswain34
Well-known member
I dont think theres any reason to be ashamed for the hard work you've put in to get where you are. It doesn't have anything to do with a blue collar or white collar job, if you're a good ass worker and good at what you do then it's likely you (edit: it*, you get the point) will be difficult for you to be replaced. The bottom line stands regardless.
Edit: lets see how long i make it in this thread this time. It's only like my 100th time of trying to participate but then realizing its a waste of time lol.
Aleksandar37
Well-known member
lmao enjoy Oprah! You get healthcare, you get healthcare, everybody gets healthcare!
thebigt
Legend
actually I 100% agree with this....
jswain34
Well-known member
"Intense" haha
thebigt
Legend
lol...many times people trained to solve complex problems have issues with simple everyday stuff.
but you are right, intelligent people could easily learn simple stuff compared to a simple person learning complex stuff.
Aleksandar37
Well-known member
Not at all. Most of my friends and family are blue collar. My grandparents worked in the mills on the south east side of Chicago. My dad was an unemployed alcoholic most of my life and my mom was a secretary. I've worked since before it was legal for me to do so and that includes fast food. There is nothing wrong with digging ditches and sweeping floors. I should have clarified that perhaps. What I am saying is that if you're sitting in a job because you think somebody owes you that job and you're not willing to try to be the best at what you do, then you can be replaced and should focus on what you did wrong rather than blaming someone else for you losing your job. Same goes for technology, If you're not willing to evolve with the rest of society and learn new skills as old skills are replaced by machines or computers, then again you have nobody to blame but yourself.
thebigt
Legend
Aleksandar37
Well-known member
That's common with sheltered and rich kids who never have real world interactions until after college or business or medical school. Definitely not one of those lol.
jswain34
Well-known member
100% agree, i'll never act like i could do or would want to do a lot of these blue collar workers do day in and day out. I roofed houses for a summer after my freshman year of college (which i slacked off hard during) and I swear that was a huge part of my motivation to get my ass in gear and apply myself.
It seems like everyone may agree on this topic...quite civilized for this thread
.
It seems like everyone may agree on this topic...quite civilized for this thread
.
thebigt
Legend
definitely, there are exceptions to everything....unfortunately many kids today will graduate college and move into a 'sheltered' position without ever learning the value of blue collar work, imo.
also, many kids will graduate college only to realize the only job available is blue collar and be saddled with tuition loans.....this is truly unfortunate!!!
thebigt
Legend
I have a suspicion that oprah has a few too many secrets that she doesn't want revealed....I bet trump knows a few since they were tight in the 80's and 90's.....I don't see the old girl running-hell I don't even see her walking or jogging, lol.
aint gonna happen!!!
cubsfan815
Well-known member
Like her Weinstein connection for starters...
An aspiring actress says*Harvey Weinstein*used*Oprah Winfrey*and*Naomi Campbell*to dupe her into thinking he would help her with her career — only to use her for sex.
ax1
Legend
She is a Bilderberg group member, nothing but human filth.
cubsfan815
Well-known member
thebigt
Legend
yes for starters.....I think there are many secrets that are mostly unknown to the public that she would prefer stay that way.
Aleksandar37
Well-known member
This is what cracks me up about Trump supporters. All of the sudden they give a **** about sexual harassment and rape. If Trump, a known rapist, can get elected, so can somebody who happened to do business with a rapist. The Weinstein "connection" is weak as hell.
cubsfan815
Well-known member
Who's a Trump supporter?
I voted for Rand Paul last election as write in. I voted Ron Paul years prior.
I stated that if Trump is truly doing somethings that are rumoured, then it surprises me and I'm all for it. I also like the tax plan, the ending of Obama care, reducing foreign aide to terrorist supporting countries, and the fact that my IRAs are booming right now. I figured he was a puppet like Killary, and he may still be, however so far I'm kinda shocked and impressed.
Woody
Well-known member
The tax plan is awful for my business. Very corporate friendly. Not so small business friendly. Losing most write-offs and a tiny tax break.
Should vote Gary Johnson. Doesn't stand a chance in hell, but he needs to get 5% so a third party can get federal funding. Then, a real third party candidate would show up.
Should vote Gary Johnson. Doesn't stand a chance in hell, but he needs to get 5% so a third party can get federal funding. Then, a real third party candidate would show up.
cubsfan815
Well-known member
I did love Feel the Johnson slogan lmao. I know it was unofficial, but great.
Aleksandar37
Well-known member
You answered your own question. It doesn't matter who you voted for; you're supporting him now and willing to look the other way on rape, but now it's an issue for a democrat.
Woody
Well-known member
Don't get me wrong, Gary Johnson is a moron. But federal funding to a 3rd party is huge. If you want change from Repub/Dems, no better way to get it than introduce a 3rd party with semi-fair chances
thebigt
Legend
because they aren't that stupid!!!
Woody
Well-known member
How is it stupid? Public universities should be free to students pursuing a STEM degree. If your GPA drops, your free drops. But to say free education is stupid... baffling
thebigt
Legend
so you offer 'free' college to everyone....then when the ones who shouldn't be there in the 1st place[of which there are many]either get bad grades or drop out...care to guess what happens then?
I would rather see money available for trade schools to teach those people without the aptitude for professional/well paying jobs a trade.
Woody
Well-known member
No, you offer free college to STEM students. Science, technology, engineering, and mathematics. If they drop out or flunk out, then they lose eligibility for free funding. You don't have to make a 4.0 to be successful in any field.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
So do current or recently graduated STEM majors get amnesty/forgiveness on their loans (not have to pay them back)?
Also, if literally anyone with a high school diploma can get free STEM at universities, do you not worry that it will lead to some people saying “screw it, it’s free,” and then dropping out once they realize it’s a good bit of work and not easy? Do the taxpayers just eat 1-3 semesters of free classes for everyone who drops out?
Also, does this cover pre-requisites? There are at least several courses that all students need to take freshman year; if anything for a STEM major is free, everyone should just start as a STEM major, get freshman year for free, then switch to whatever major they actually planned on.
Perhaps you would have to repay the “free” courses if you drop out before a certain point in your education to discourage abuse? Sounds sort of harsh, but it’s still “cheaper,” or at least no more expensive, than it currently is, where you ALWAYs have to pay for every course you take. You wouldn’t be paying extra, just what you normally would.
thebigt
Legend
anytime you offer 'FREE' you are setting yourself up for unintended consequences[abuses]...
thebigt
Legend
so much for our discussion on personal responsibility, lol.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
What are we talking about? Refresh me please.
thebigt
Legend
we mostly all agreed that personal responsibility is a good thing[something that doesn't happen often]...I was agreeing with your post that 'free' is not a good thing...
muscleupcrohn
Legend
Ok, makes sense lol.
Aleksandar37
Well-known member
Your heart is in the right place, but I don't agree with the idea for a few reasons. Republicans for some reason have made it a point to attack education, especially college. They lump all universities together as "liberal" even though they rarely understand that term. So convincing them to fund something that they attack won't work. It's part jealousy and regret about their own life choices and part simply wanting to keep their voters uneducated.
I don't agree with funding other people's education personally because I view it as welfare. However, if it were to happen, I don't think we should only fund certain fields. Funding would have to cover any field and trade schools.
Just because my personal belief is against providing free education, doesn't mean that I'm against removing other barriers to get education. Tuition price and students loans need to change drastically. As for STEM degrees, I can speak as somebody in the field and say that educating more scientists is not the current problem. Right now we have way too many scientists fighting over constantly diminishing funding sources (caused by Republicans and Democrats). Pushing more STEM graduates into the field will only make it worse if we're not willing to fund scientific and medical research.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
I see what you are saying, but I don’t really think taxpayers funding everyone who wants to study lesbian dance theory is going to help our country or economy in any way. I do agree that STEM isn’t the only useful/meaningful field of study of course, and I do agree that trade schools are solid options for many people as well; college/University isn’t for everyone, and that’s fine. The issue is when we are taught to believe that the only way to “make it” or “be successful” is to attend, so people will major in something, anything, just so they can have a degree that they view as necessary in today’s society and economy
thebigt
Legend
I am a republican, but I don't speak for all republicans...it's good to know that you do though, lol....
personally I am against the idea that college is for everyone, that is total nonsense. trade schools would be a better option for lets say 80% of americans, imo.
college today is full of people who don't belong there...they have been fed propaganda to believe they have to/need to go...there is a real need for tradesmen out there that isn't being filled because of this.
Woody
Well-known member
I didn't read all the responses because I'm at work and trying to handle 6 things at once.
Anyway, spending $600 billion a year on the defense budget makes little sense when we don't invest in the future of that military budget. We sell military technology. However, we do not sell our current, best, most badass military technology. We sell the meh stuff. If our country continues on the path it's on, with education costs continuing to skyrocket, we are going to lose our edge. We won't be selling meh stuff we will be buying it.
The government will generate more revenue this way because these individuals will generally be higher income earners. Also, they'll be able to contribute more to the economy once they graduate. I have a $1600 student loan payment (I'm not in STEM so I'm not arguing this for me). That's $1600 a month I can't use to stimulate the economy. I graduated with ~300 kids and about half have as much student loans as I. That's $240,000 a month not being pumped into the economy. From one school. For ten years.
I wouldn't make it retroactive, though. And if you drop out before completing your degree, you'd have to pay that back. Granted, not at the current, highly inflated, everyone can go to college because the government funds student loans.
IMO, no one goes into STEM because they've been fed propaganda. They go into political science, philosophy, art history, or some other meaningless degree.
I agree with trade schools. Generally speaking, a trade school is significantly cheaper than a 4-year degree, which is why they weren't a focal point.
I would rather spend $18B on education and bettering the future generations instead of a wall that's not going to solve the alleged issue.
Anyway, spending $600 billion a year on the defense budget makes little sense when we don't invest in the future of that military budget. We sell military technology. However, we do not sell our current, best, most badass military technology. We sell the meh stuff. If our country continues on the path it's on, with education costs continuing to skyrocket, we are going to lose our edge. We won't be selling meh stuff we will be buying it.
The government will generate more revenue this way because these individuals will generally be higher income earners. Also, they'll be able to contribute more to the economy once they graduate. I have a $1600 student loan payment (I'm not in STEM so I'm not arguing this for me). That's $1600 a month I can't use to stimulate the economy. I graduated with ~300 kids and about half have as much student loans as I. That's $240,000 a month not being pumped into the economy. From one school. For ten years.
I wouldn't make it retroactive, though. And if you drop out before completing your degree, you'd have to pay that back. Granted, not at the current, highly inflated, everyone can go to college because the government funds student loans.
IMO, no one goes into STEM because they've been fed propaganda. They go into political science, philosophy, art history, or some other meaningless degree.
I agree with trade schools. Generally speaking, a trade school is significantly cheaper than a 4-year degree, which is why they weren't a focal point.
I would rather spend $18B on education and bettering the future generations instead of a wall that's not going to solve the alleged issue.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
Woody, I do agree about having to pay back if you drop out, at a reasonable rate of course. That would discourage people from abusing the system to just say screw it and go for a semester or two.
As for the military budget being exorbitantly high, I am not disagreeing. It would be preferable to redirect some of that towards other uses, but that’s assuming we have to put that same money towards something, that is that we can’t just, in theory, cut the governments’ military spending without reallocating it somewhere else. We have serious debt as a country, so it may be wise to focus not on only reallocating waste, but in trimming it off period.
When you put out a fire, what do you replace it with? Sometimes you can eliminate wasteful spending and then just save the money, reduce the deficit, reduce unnecessary taxes, etc. Something you remove doesn’t always have to be replaced with something.
Think about an individual; if you are spending too much money on something, it’s good to reallocate some of it towards better uses, but sometimes it’s just better to save the money, to pay off bills and loans, not necessarily to reallocate it to something else that means spending the same amount of money, particularly if they’re in serious debt and continue adding to that debt every year.
As Bruce Lee said, “It's not the daily increase but daily decrease. Hack away at the unessential.”
As for the military budget being exorbitantly high, I am not disagreeing. It would be preferable to redirect some of that towards other uses, but that’s assuming we have to put that same money towards something, that is that we can’t just, in theory, cut the governments’ military spending without reallocating it somewhere else. We have serious debt as a country, so it may be wise to focus not on only reallocating waste, but in trimming it off period.
When you put out a fire, what do you replace it with? Sometimes you can eliminate wasteful spending and then just save the money, reduce the deficit, reduce unnecessary taxes, etc. Something you remove doesn’t always have to be replaced with something.
Think about an individual; if you are spending too much money on something, it’s good to reallocate some of it towards better uses, but sometimes it’s just better to save the money, to pay off bills and loans, not necessarily to reallocate it to something else that means spending the same amount of money, particularly if they’re in serious debt and continue adding to that debt every year.
As Bruce Lee said, “It's not the daily increase but daily decrease. Hack away at the unessential.”
Woody
Well-known member
Absolutely agreed. I think of putting more higher income workers into the field and increasing future tax revenue as not so much a replacement but as an investment.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
Fair enough. It just seems to me that a lot of people don’t understand the concept of solving problems by removing things, not by adding them. I read that the “Western” approach is “what can I add/take/do to solve this problem,” where the “Eastern” approach is “what can I not to, or stop doing, to solve this problem.” For example, if you can’t sleep, you may try taking a supplement or drugs, or you could try not watching TV so late at night. Or if you don’t seem to have enough money, perhaps you should reconsider if you really need a new iPhone, Jordan’s, Beats, and a Cadillac. Or you could just get another job, or a higher paying job.
Woody
Well-known member
And of those 26%, how many are from lower income families that can't afford to pay tuition?
Woody
Well-known member
I'm very debt/risk averse. I'm all about living in my means and not having the nicest phone/car. Though, I do splurge on brown/tan shoes.
thebigt
Legend
what percentage do you think of the total currently enrolled college students are from lower income families that can't afford to pay tuition?