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Study - The Big Vitamin D Mistake

jarrellt67

Well-known member
Sorry if this has already been posted elsewhere but I just saw it on another forum - Invalid Link Removed.

Everyone's thoughts? Appears an error was made in determining the RDA and it should be much higher for most (8,000 IU).
 
Wow, that is a serious goofup on needed Vit D. And RDA isn't very useful for athlete's (non sedentary adults), but makes me wonder if B vitamins were determined same way? Seems athlete's need 10x RDA of B vitamins as well. Seeing how most energy boost drinks use a crapton of B vitamins...
 
Well, two issues here I see:

1) no "expert" seems to agree what measure constitutes a vit d deficiency

2) shouldnt personal testing determine if supplementation is even required?

Ive had a few tests done, Im always around 40nmol/L, and dont take vit d supps. Should people just blindly take 8000iu per day?
 
Nac said:
Well, two issues here I see:

1) no "expert" seems to agree what measure constitutes a vit d deficiency

2) shouldnt personal testing determine if supplementation is even required?

Ive had a few tests done, Im always around 40nmol/L, and dont take vit d supps. Should people just blindly take 8000iu per day?
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I agree with you there nac.
 
Nac said:
Well, two issues here I see:

1) no "expert" seems to agree what measure constitutes a vit d deficiency

2) shouldnt personal testing determine if supplementation is even required?

Ive had a few tests done, Im always around 40nmol/L, and dont take vit d supps. Should people just blindly take 8000iu per day?
Click to expand...

Completely agree...testing is always good.
 
Nac said:
Well, two issues here I see:

1) no "expert" seems to agree what measure constitutes a vit d deficiency

2) shouldnt personal testing determine if supplementation is even required?

Ive had a few tests done, Im always around 40nmol/L, and dont take vit d supps. Should people just blindly take 8000iu per day?
Click to expand...

Where are you getting your D from? Lot's of whole food sources and the Sun? I agree (even though I'm a hypocrite here) that a 25 Hydroxy test should be done. But I don't get a lot of Sun, even in the Summer - so I do 10,000/Day on a guess, and based on the data showing perfect sun exposure at peak times, for a certain amount of time - yields 10,000iu max, before the body shuts off production. Been doing it for years by now (5?) The good thing about D is that toxicity requires millions of IU's (The mislabeled supps, and the guy that worked in a Vit D facility) and treatment is some Prednisone and staying out of the Sun for a bit. The Sun is the best source though - some additional chemical benefits you can't get with oral dosing. F It - I'm getting a 25OHD test this next go round of TRT blood work! :D
 
The_Old_Guy said:
Where are you getting your D from? Lot's of whole food sources and the Sun? I agree (even though I'm a hypocrite here) that a 25 Hydroxy test should be done. But I don't get a lot of Sun, even in the Summer - so I do 10,000/Day on a guess, and based on the data showing perfect sun exposure at peak times, for a certain amount of time - yields 10,000iu max, before the body shuts off production. Been doing it for years by now (5?) The good thing about D is that toxicity requires millions of IU's (The mislabeled supps, and the guy that worked in a Vit D facility) and treatment is some Prednisone and staying out of the Sun for a bit. The Sun is the best source though - some additional chemical benefits you can't get with oral dosing. F It - I'm getting a 25OHD test this next go round of TRT blood work! :D
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Do you take K2 with it? If so, mk4 or mk7? Was going to order one with 5,000 iu d3 and 100 mcg of mk7 but wanted to make that's the best type.
 
Even during the summer when I'm in my pool a lot I still test right around 20. After a few years of trying different types of supplements, only the liquified version could raise it up over 40. The doc even prescribed 50,000 IU gel gaps and that didn't do much.
 
actionhero said:
Even during the summer when I'm in my pool a lot I still test right around 20. After a few years of trying different types of supplements, only the liquified version could raise it up over 40. The doc even prescribed 50,000 IU gel gaps and that didn't do much.
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how is your test level, is it low?
 
jarrellt67 said:
Do you take K2 with it? If so, mk4 or mk7? Was going to order one with 5,000 iu d3 and 100 mcg of mk7 but wanted to make that's the best type.
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Was going say same thing saw a study Vit D should be taken with K2. A combo pill seems expensive..

Ps so what is the study saying in simple terms we need 8000+ IU, most Vit D supps are cheap 2000IU..
 
Rise and Swell has 20,000 iu and for testosterone boosting I think that's optimal. We are horribly deficient from everything I know about Vitamin D.
 
Eric Mar said:
Rise and Swell has 20,000 iu and for testosterone boosting I think that's optimal. We are horribly deficient from everything I know about Vitamin D.
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I think you may have a pretty big typo there. I just looked at the product on mm and it lists just 1,000 iu per serving.
 
Does anyone get insomnia from vitamin d? I’ve seen that higher vitamin d lowers melatonin, I can’t sleep when I take it consistently
 
Sss23 said:
Does anyone get insomnia from vitamin d? I’ve seen that higher vitamin d lowers melatonin, I can’t sleep when I take it consistently
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do you take it in the morning? if you use fish oil, ingest these two compounds together. use it in the morning; vitamin d can influence your sleep if taken in the evening, already heard that from a buch of people
 
So the recommended daily dose for adults should be 8,000iu? I currently have 400iu gels that say 100%dv
 
There really is no way to know your personal dosage without bloodwork. I take 10,000 IU per day and stay around 100 ng/ml.
 
kenpoengineer said:
There really is no way to know your personal dosage without bloodwork. I take 10,000 IU per day and stay around 100 ng/ml.
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thats true but 4000 i.u are safe to consume without blookwork. i personally wouldnt go higher than 5000i.u - if not prescribed by a doctor.

for 10,000 i.u i would highly recommend to pair with 200mic vitamin k2 mk7 all-trans. i would pair it even with 1000 i.u, its better to have.
 
I take 35,000iu every monday, year round and pair with vitamin K.
 
iamyourfather said:
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Indicates that MK7 has negligibly bioavailabiilty. MK4 has at least partial bioavailability. This doesn't demonstrate anything else beyond that. It doesn't demonstrate any of this nonsense about increasing testosterone and it doesn't indicate that it's a superior form of vitamin K to the plant-based version.
 
iamyourfather said:
Invalid Link Removed
Click to expand...

Indicates that MK7 has negligibly bioavailabiilty. MK4 has at least partial bioavailability. This doesn't demonstrate anything else beyond that. It doesn't demonstrate any of this nonsense about increasing testosterone and it doesn't indicate that it's a superior form of vitamin K to the plant-based version.
 
iamyourfather said:
Invalid Link Removed
Click to expand...

Indicates that MK7 has negligibly bioavailabiilty. MK4 has at least partial bioavailability. This doesn't demonstrate anything else beyond that. It doesn't demonstrate any of this nonsense about increasing testosterone and it doesn't indicate that it's a superior form of vitamin K to the plant-based version.
 
iamyourfather said:
Invalid Link Removed
Click to expand...

Indicates that MK7 has negligibly bioavailabiilty. MK4 has at least partial bioavailability. This doesn't demonstrate anything else beyond that. It doesn't demonstrate any of this nonsense about increasing testosterone and it doesn't indicate that it's a superior form of vitamin K to the plant-based version.
 
USPlabsRep said:
Indicates that MK7 has negligibly bioavailabiilty. MK4 has at least partial bioavailability. This doesn't demonstrate anything else beyond that. It doesn't demonstrate any of this nonsense about increasing testosterone and it doesn't indicate that it's a superior form of vitamin K to the plant-based version.
Click to expand...

Invalid Link Removed

i never said anything about testosterone. there are no really effective testosterone boosters on the market except exogenous steroids, that’s absolutely clear. i forgot to add this link here


mk7 is the way to go. all-trans form, microencapsulated. this is in fact the best vitamin k2 form.
 
Issue is not many brands selling quality Vitamin D with MK7 and the real stuff us like really expensive
 
00A said:
Issue is not many brands selling quality Vitamin D with MK7 and the real stuff us like really expensive
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you can buy both separately?

i have for example 5000 i.u vitamin d3 capsules (best to have oil capsules, not powder; also take it with a fatty meal or fish oil or something with fat to make sure your body can absorb it) and another product with 200mic mk7 all-trans caps. its sadly not microencapsulated because there are only very few of these products on the market and they are really expensive.

the problem is, that many products dont even contain real vitamin k2 in the desired form or way too low doses, VERY much k2 products just dont match with their label claims. there is a study out there where they tested a bunch of products, the result was very sad. most of the products didnt contain what the company claimed on the label.
 
iamyourfather said:
Invalid Link Removed

i never said anything about testosterone. there are no really effective testosterone boosters on the market except exogenous steroids, that’s absolutely clear. i forgot to add this link here


mk7 is the way to go. all-trans form, microencapsulated. this is in fact the best vitamin k2 form.
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It has better absorption and results in better efficacy for one indicator by 2-3 fold, but you end up using 2 times less to avoid issues with anticoagulant activity. At the end of the day, if there are no unique benefits and all of the epidemiological data for vitamin K intake are based upon the plant-based version, what is the point in using MK7? You can take 50 ug instead of 100 ug of K1? I don't really see that as a benefit unless it saves the consumer money.


The vitamin K–dependent clotting factors are all produced in the liver and, in contrast to osteocalcin, they are all fully carboxylated in the healthy population. For efficacy comparison of K vitamins in the liver, we therefore used an artificial model of hepatic vitamin K deficiency (ie, mildly anticoagulated volunteers). In this study population, we monitored to which extent the 2 forms of vitamin K were capable of counteracting the effect of coumarin anticoagulants. It turned out that if expressed on a molar basis, MK-7 is a 3 to 4 times more potent antidote for oral anticoagulation than is K1. If expressed per weight, the efficacy of MK-7 in the liver is still 2.5 times higher than that of K1. In a previous paper we demonstrated that vitamin K1 supplements containing no more than 100 μg/d are not likely to result in clinically relevant disturbances of oral anticoagulant therapy.22 Extrapolating these figures, it may be concluded that MK-7 supplements containing more than 50 μg/d may interfere with oral anticoagulant treatment, whereas doses of at least 50 μg are not likely to affect the INR value in a relevant way. Since our study did not include intakes below 100 μg/d, more elaborate research including a larger number of volunteers and dosages between 0 and 100 μg/d are required to confirm this conclusion.
 
iamyourfather said:
Invalid Link Removed

i never said anything about testosterone. there are no really effective testosterone boosters on the market except exogenous steroids, that’s absolutely clear. i forgot to add this link here


mk7 is the way to go. all-trans form, microencapsulated. this is in fact the best vitamin k2 form.
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here is a 12 month study that shows no difference...
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USPlabsRep said:
here is a 12 month study that shows no difference...
Invalid Link Removed
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ill look it up, thank you. im always open to get new information and ill admit that im wrong if that is the case! but for now my point of view is, that mk7 is either better or as good as mk4, depends on how much you weight each study, right?
 
iamyourfather said:
ill look it up, thank you. im always open to get new information and ill admit that im wrong if that is the case! but for now my point of view is, that mk7 is either better or as good as mk4, depends on how much you weight each study, right?
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point is why change what works to a more expensive less studied form?

MK7 is found in cheese and some meats like pork. At the end of the day, the marker used for efficacy is osteocalcin carboxylation. K1 and K2 both do so and yes, MK7 seems to do so to a greater degree but is that needed? It certainly doesn't appear so. I'd expect that bone mineral density would have doubled the rate seen with K1 if that were the case, but it didn't. It's likely there's a ceiling, like just about anything in the human body, which limits how much benefit can be seen. Again, taking more or using a vitamer that has better absorption and a longer half-life doesn't mean it's better.
 
00A said:
Issue is not many brands selling quality Vitamin D with MK7 and the real stuff us like really expensive
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There's Jarrow K-Right (it's what I just ordered). It has 2,000 iu d3 (figured I'd start there and maybe add more later), 500 mcg K1, 1,500 mcg MK-4 and 180 mcg MK-7 (VitaMK7). It's a little pricey at about $0.50/softgel but does have pretty good doses (maybe a little low on d3 though).
 
jarrellt67 said:
There's Jarrow K-Right (it's what I just ordered). It has 2,000 iu d3 (figured I'd start there and maybe add more later), 500 mcg K1, 1,500 mcg MK-4 and 180 mcg MK-7 (VitaMK7). It's a little pricey at about $0.50/softgel but does have pretty good doses (maybe a little low on d3 though).
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d3 is cheap if you wanted to add more, looks like a comprehensive formula.
 
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