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Eight's Caffeine Withdrawal & Cardar1ne (GW 501516) Log

Good log bro. I think we r experiecing lethargy as soon as natural test gets suppressed. I'd guess cardarine shouldnt be all that supressive, but I'm guessing. I'm wondering how many people lack motivation on a basic test cycle and I'd bet it's low like 5 or 10 percent.

The trend I see on the ph/sarm community is that we start off like gang busters and then run into a brick wall after a few week.
 
Could be a bit of that - my hormones are definitely not quite right - and I wonder if there are also withdrawal issues (or perceptions thereof) from having a period where I haven't been taking as much Cardar1ne as I was.

I also have the issue of having now completed my main goal for the year, which leaves me a little lost. It's a lot easier to train so frequently when there's a clear reason and pressure to do so.
 
Day 57 - Crushing Skulls...

Worked from home today, which meant I could sneak in a weight-training session before lunch.

Strength seems to have been increasing a bit over the past few sessions, and this one turned out well. Set a few PRs and got a nice pump going, courtesy of PlasmaJet.

For the second time in a week, though from different exercises, I managed to give myself a bump on the head. This time I learned why they’re called skullcrushers, after my right tricep gave out on the final set and the barbell dropped. No damage.

Back to the doc’s in the afternoon to have blood drawn for more tests related to the SHBG and free androgen numbers I got a few weeks ago. Unfortunately, they've opted not to run further hormone checks - only liver, thyroid, and kidney function tests, and basic health markers.

Assuming they come back ok, I may go on-cycle with something and worry about SHBG and free androgens etc. afterwards, during a longer PCT.
 
Day 58 - Steady As She Goes...

Tough WOD, but one that Cardar1ne helps a lot with - a constant-pace workout where you can really make up time if you avoid (long) breaks. It went smoothly for me; not so much for everyone else judging by the amount of bodies on the floor afterwards.

Going to try and get a few more runs in and then bring this log to a close. I'm running out of caps and looking to go on-cycle soon anyway. Before I do though, going to try taking both 7 mg doses of Cardar1ne before a few workouts, instead of one in the morning and one PWO.
 
Day 59 - Pressing Matters To Attend To…

Scheduled the day for rest, but actually felt in good spirits and decided to do a shoulder-press-only workout... for fun. Strength levels were good, but the sheer number of sets meant that I had to throw in some push presses every now and then.

Sometimes it’s nice to just relax and do what you want though - without worrying about progress, form, or anything like that.
 
Day 60 - Double Dragon…

For the evening workout, I took the 14 mg of Cardar1ne as a single dose about 30 minutes before training. System felt a little iffy, but couldn’t put my finger on what was wrong. Nevertheless, felt fine once I started moving.

Plan is to stick with this dosing method for remainder of my time using cardarine.

Workout was a tough triplet, a product of my own masochistic mind. Cardio capacity held up fairly well throughout, and recovery afterwards was almost instantaneous. Took a little while to stop sweating though.
 
celc5 said:
I'm eager for the final review. Well documented log without the extra fluff.
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Cheers mate, I appreciate that.

Can't believe it's been over two months - though my schedule has been messed up a lot more than I thought would happen. It's been fun. Will try and get stuck in for the final week or so.
 
Day 61 - Narco Polo...

Unusually deep sleep last night, which may have been due to starting on some Inhibit-P. Bit concerned about my prolactin levels, got a good deal on a bottle, and decided to try it for a few weeks. I am an incredibly poor sleeper - chronic insomniac at points in my life - and almost nothing works to put me out. So the rest of these notes are a little surprising...

Only had one thing planned for the evening - a timed 5K.

However, after falling asleep at my desk mid-afternoon, I decided to skip that, have a nap after work, and then do some weights. That plan also failed as the “nap” turned into a fairly long and (once again) deep sleep.

I can only hope that, after a few decent nights, the afternoon and evening tiredness will wear off.
 
A few years ago, I had one of those years in my life where we had multiple death in the family, cancer, other rare disease, move, and job change that lead to insomnia for almost a year. I learned the basic sleep hygiene and mental tricks but never quite put it all together until I resd the Effortless Sleep Method. I slept 5 hrs the first night I read it and was sleeping 6 or 7 hrs per night by the end of the first week.

It's a very common sense approach to improving sleep written by an educated insomniac. It's cheap on amazon and I reread it on the regular to refresh my habits. Just a suggestion.
 
celc5 said:
It's a very common sense approach to improving sleep written by an educated insomniac. It's cheap on amazon and I reread it on the regular to refresh my habits. Just a suggestion.
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Sounds interesting. And I'll give most things a try when it comes to sleeping - it's been a regular plague for years now.

Cheers fella.
 
Day 62 - Rush Hour...

Another very good night’s sleep, which I have to attribute to the Inhibit-P.

Only a short, strength workout in the morning, but it went pretty well. Power snatches were a couple of KGs short of my max, but set a new bench press 5RM and went heavy on the accessory work. Because time was short, and rests would be minimal, I threw down a few capsules of PlasmaJet and got a satisfying pump out of the session too.

Fun start to the day, but not especially relevant to this log since I had no reason to pop any Cardar1ne.
 
Day 63 - Spectator Sports…

If watching the CrossFit Games counts as exercise then I did loads today... Otherwise, it was a fairly low activity sort of day.

Although it wasn’t needed (since I wasn’t doing anything requiring much in the way of cardio capacity), I took 14 mg of cardarine before practice and felt alert and lively throughout.

The dosage didn’t seem to cause the mild system upset that it had done previously.
 
Day 64 - Prepared For Disappointment…

Great night's sleep - easily the best I’ve had in months. Still felt a tiny bit lethargic towards the mid afternoon, but it was less than of late and nothing that a mild coffee couldn't pull me round from.

Decided to do a 5K run this evening, but I knew before even lacing my shoes that I wouldn't be able to match my previous time. I just haven't put the miles in recently. Took 14 mg of Cardar1ne pre-workout, and completed the run 14s slower than last time. Lungs felt good, but my lower body just couldn't sustain the pace needed to beat my previous time. Reasonably happy overall though.

Recovery was exceptionally fast, and definitely faster than with only 7 mg. So much so that instead of heading home, I did an unplanned, intense, 10-minute metcon comprising of thrusters and sit-ups. That hurt but, again, within a few minutes I had recovered. Called it a night there because I was bloody hungry and had nothing to eat with me.
 
Day 65 - Ambition Makes Us Whores...

Only really intended to do some weights, but then thought I may be able to beat my previous 2-mile time. In retrospect, that was obviously not going to be possible, having worked the legs too hard last night.

Took 14 mg of Cardar1ne before the run, but time was 42 seconds slower than my last attempt. The cardarine did its job - lungs felt good - but my legs couldn't keep the pace required. Too fast from the start meant I dropped off very badly towards the end, or I probably would have been closer.

On the plus side, recovery was outstanding and I opted to do a machine circuit, which I don’t get to do often. I find that it’s a good morale boost to do one of these every now and then - instead of fighting for every 0.5 kg weight increase, it’s fun to come in and add 5-10 kg since the last time you did an exercise.
 
Almost out of caps now, so I think my last run will be on Saturday. Probably not going to be a time trial - I think I've done all I can until I build up extra strength/stamina in my lower body muscles - and will most likely go for a 10K or 15K depending on how much time I have available.

Closing thoughts likely to be posted on Sunday.
 
Day 66 - A Sore Winner…

After two evenings running, my legs and posterior chain were feeling pretty beat up. But, despite this, I had to drag myself to CF to attempt a Hero WOD.

14 mg before the workout, and overall I was happy with my performance. Took its toll though, within a few hours my legs and torso had stiffened up something rotten. Fun times!
 
(Quick catch-up before I post the final day and closing thoughts.)

Day 67 - Practice Makes...

No serious training today, just an opportunity to work on technique for a few things. Hadn't planned to take any cardarine but, in the end, took 14 mg pre-workout.

This turned out to be a decent decision, as the session ended up being quite long (well over two hours). Felt good throughout and maybe made a tiny amount of progress. Here's hoping.

Day 68 - Doctor Who?...

Didn't have an opportunity to do any training, thanks to having to call-in at the docs to pick up some test results. If you have a long memory, you might recall that I took a test that showed abnormally large levels of SHBG and very low free androgens. Docs were completely disinterested, but ran some basic health marker checks - including liver and thyroid function, which I was a bit concerned about. Results came back and all I got in response was a comment that no action was to be taken. What the hell is that supposed to mean anyway!?

After a bit of arguing, I got them to print out my test results for me and that's what I had to pick up today. Liver and thyroid function is normal, cholesterol and other numbers are decent. No indication as to what's causing the SHBG problem, so I'll probably hop on an AAS cycle with a longer PCT, and then look at the hormone levels again at the end of that.
 
Day 69 - End Of Days...

Got up in the early morning to do some standard weight training, which went pretty well. Not at my best but felt reasonably strong throughout.

The main plan for the day was a 10K run, primarily because I haven't managed to get as many timed runs in this log as I had intended to.

Had an odd number of cardarine capsules left, so took three (21 mg) before the workout. The run started out fairly decent, but some unexpected tightness in the lower-back caused problems and I regularly had to slow down a bit to release tension. Had been targeting a sub 49-minute time but came in at 51:04. Slow, but adjusted for age then it’s not too bad… I suppose… And really not that far off the fastest I’ve ever run it.

21 mg of Cardar1ne didn’t seem to be any different from taking 14 mg - no digestive issues or sides, but no additional performance boost either. Will post final thoughts shortly, but I think Olympus Labs may have got the dosing pretty much spot on with this product.
 
Feels vs. Reals

Although I was sceptical about seeing any significant benefits from Cardar1ne, I did become convinced that it is an effective supplement that does (mostly) what people claim. It’s a very easy supplement to take - only two pills per day, with no side effects - and worked immediately, meaning that breaks in training did not result in wasted capsules.

The point of doing timed runs had been to try and get a few numbers, rather than judging it solely on feels. Just relying on my notes for these (I, foolishly, didn’t keep a separate record of my times):

(Times in minutes:seconds, obviously. I'm not so slow as to need hours.)

1 Mile:
[Previous Time: 6:33] -> 6:18 -> 6:08

2 Mile:
[Previous Time: 13:40] -> 13:26 -> 14:08

5K:
[Previous Time: ???] -> [Not logged] -> -0:22 -> -0:23 -> -0:27 -> [Not logged] -> +0:14

10K:
[Previous Time: ???] -> [Not logged] -> 51:04

Even though I had a larger gaps in training than I planned to, it seems that during the relatively few runs for which I was taking Cardar1ne, a fairly decent level of improvement was made both in short distances at a fast pace, and slightly longer distances at a slower pace. More importantly, I am confident that these runs show more improvement in my running than I had managed in earlier, pre-Cardar1ne days.

What the numbers don’t show, is how much easier these runs generally felt, and how (particularly towards the end) I was struggling not from cardio capacity, but from the inability of my lower-body muscles to sustain the pace that I wanted.

Dosing

Olympus Labs recommend 7 mg be taken in the morning, and 7 mg taken pre-workout.

I’d say they dosed this quite well: for most workouts, I found 7 mg to be a perfectly adequate dose. 14 mg pre-workout did not seem to give substantially better results in performance, but did provide even further decreased recovery times. 21 mg pre-workout did not appear to offer any advantages over 14 mg.

I’d recommend sticking with ~7 mg twice a day, unless the structure of your training session contains breaks in which you could make more use of the improved recovery with 14 mg.

Feels

For “functional fitness”, the additional cardio capacity is extremely useful. Breathing got heavy and sweat was plentiful, but I definitely felt able to take shorter rests and maintain a constant pace for far longer - something that can directly translate into better scores.

I’ve seen claims that cardarine provides a real mood enhancement, and I found this to be true as well. In the mornings, it served as a handy alternative to caffeine to wake me up and increase alertness and focus. During the period when I was forced to reduce my caffeine intake, cardarine seemed to help a great deal. Surprisingly, I didn’t really experience caffeine withdrawal symptoms in the way I was expecting to.

Somewhat related - I sometimes struggle with ephedrine as it tends to make me a little foggy. Aspirin helps a little with that but (and I don’t necessarily advise this that anyone does this often) I found that taking Cardar1ne with ephedrine and caffeine did not give me the same sluggish feeling that an EC/A stack usually does.

Reals

Saw no evidence at all for Cardar1ne actually helping with weight loss. For the most part, body weight remained constant, as did my calorie intake. I would have expected, if the claims were true, to have lost a little weight while eating at maintenance and eating back calories burned from exercise. Either this didn’t happen, or it was so insignificant that I didn’t notice it.

It’s also fairly expensive on the UK market. Possibly worth it if you’re really training your cardiovascular system for some reason, but a little pricey just for a bit of a boost.

Final Comments

Whilst it’s not something I would take on an overly regular basis (mostly due to expense), I’d pretty be happy to take OL Cardar1ne again. This is especially true if I see it at a discounted price at some point.

I’d probably also be happy to try a different brand at some point in the future.
 
Excellent Thread

I realize that this thread is a few months old, but it is a really good read man. Best thread I have read in a while actually. I was actually kind of sad to see it end haha. I believe we are around the same age and I was really wanting to see how the "lab work" and SBHG issue panned out. Best of luck man, and again, thank you.
 
EMT803 said:
I realize that this thread is a few months old, but it is a really good read man.
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Cheers fella, I really appreciate that.

Haven't checked but I think the SHBG issue may have been divided between a couple of threads in the end. Can't remember what I posted in this one.

So, anyway, the NHS ran bloodwork to check the important stuff like kidney and liver function etc. which could have impacted SHBG levels and been a serious (scary) problem. But everything came back normal and their response was that there's nothing wrong with me so just ignore it.

No issues so I recently went back on cycle, with a mild epistane run. Went nicely and I was going to have another hormone and SHBG check this week now that PCT is over. Haven't done it yet but will be interesting to see where those SHBG levels are at.

Will give you a shout when I get those results.

It may well be just something my body does after cycling anabolics.
 
Eight said:
Cheers fella, I really appreciate that.

Haven't checked but I think the SHBG issue may have been divided between a couple of threads in the end. Can't remember what I posted in this one.

So, anyway, the NHS ran bloodwork to check the important stuff like kidney and liver function etc. which could have impacted SHBG levels and been a serious (scary) problem. But everything came back normal and their response was that there's nothing wrong with me so just ignore it.

No issues so I recently went back on cycle, with a mild epistane run. Went nicely and I was going to have another hormone and SHBG check this week now that PCT is over. Haven't done it yet but will be interesting to see where those SHBG levels are at.

Will give you a shout when I get those results.

It may well be just something my body does after cycling anabolics.
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Do that. I think we are around the same age if I remember correctly, and probably have the same age related risks and comparable past cycle experience in common which is cool. I was considering running low dose SD again, but I am seriously considering an Epistane run as well so I will be interested to see how things go for you and hopefully get to read another log if you decide to do one... which you should by the way. Take it easy bro.
 
I'm 38, if that helps.

Epistane (Havoc) was a cool little cycle. No dramas, just one short patch of lethargy (probably just coincidence as it passed with no changes).

EMT803 said:
hopefully get to read another log if you decide to do one... which you should by the way. Take it easy bro.
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I'll definitely do another one at some point - when I'm taking something interesting or there's a story in there somewhere. Expecting to do something in January/February so might log that as there could be a competitive element (ja, cheating in a way) to it.
 
Eight said:
I'm 38, if that helps.

Epistane (Havoc) was a cool little cycle. No dramas, just one short patch of lethargy (probably just coincidence as it passed with no changes).


I'll definitely do another one at some point - when I'm taking something interesting or there's a story in there somewhere. Expecting to do something in January/February so might log that as there could be a competitive element (ja, cheating in a way) to it.
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Haha. I am 37 so we do have a lot in common which is cool. I know that this is off topic to the thread, but how much did the Epi suppress you and/or was recovery longer? Did you notice anything potentially related to your age and supplementing with PH's?
 
EMT803 said:
I know that this is off topic to the thread, but how much did the Epi suppress you and/or was recovery longer?
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I never felt surpressed - and no problems in the bedroom etc. - but science says I will have been. :)

Recovery was great actually - I ran a six-week PCT to see what would happen to those SHBG levels (must do that ****ing blood test!) but it was probably unnecessary.

No rebound gyno, very very minimal strength loss (only my squat dropped, for some reason - everything else stayed stable) and whilst I lost a little of the vascularity, kept the gains just fine.

Havoc is a designer steroid IIRC, not a pro-hormone. But anyway, I really don't think my age was a factor at all. If you're considering a run, I'd say it's a good one to go with.
 
What did you use for PCT mate? After 4 weeks of nolva I feel like my test levels haven't been this high since my late teens/early twenties. Feel amazing, wanting sex every night, thinking bout sex all day and getting random boners through the day which I haven't experienced for bloody years now, it's actually left me in a couple of awkward positions lately lol. Was just wondering is this a normal spike in test while it returns to baseline? Not complaining like I hope this is permanent it's great lol
 
Eight said:
I never felt surpressed - and no problems in the bedroom etc. - but science says I will have been. :)

Recovery was great actually - I ran a six-week PCT to see what would happen to those SHBG levels (must do that ****ing blood test!) but it was probably unnecessary.

No rebound gyno, very very minimal strength loss (only my squat dropped, for some reason - everything else stayed stable) and whilst I lost a little of the vascularity, kept the gains just fine.

Havoc is a designer steroid IIRC, not a pro-hormone. But anyway, I really don't think my age was a factor at all. If you're considering a run, I'd say it's a good one to go with.
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That is all good stuff to hear. I am definitely considering doing this rather than the SD. May I ask what your dosage scheme was? And I was curious what you ran for PCT as well. I will have a full arsenal at my disposal.
 
APC80 said:
I actually doubted it was doing that much but I felt the difference today. When I was taking it I'd a bad sinus infection and generally felt felt like crap so it amazed me how I was able to go on forever yet when I'm 100% I was close to collapsing 3/4 way through trying to do the same amount of cardio.

I felt it working the longer I went for, it was a bit of a mind **** cos I kept thinking I should be totally knackered here but I wasn't I just kept going and going. It started to get enjoyable in a weird way the longer I went for, very hard to stop.

I found it does nothing for fat loss as well, I actually plateaued for about 3 weeks on it when I came off S4 and ostarine. I found those really good for fat loss tho, I dropped about 10lbs in 3 weeks.
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Hi mate, looking at your Abu your in the Uk?
Which Cardarine product did you use?
Also how was the S4 and the sides with it?
Also the general effects were they worth it?
as thinking of trying GW and S4 with my aaa cycle

Many thanks
 
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