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T3, why some say yes it's awesome and some say don't touch it ?

AdelV said:
MK-667, HH6 may be enough to hold off any muscle wastage?
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Easily, I would think. In fact, if I were to subscribe a good "natty-like" fat-burning stack to someone, I'd have them take:

Somatozine @ 25mg/day
T3 @ 50mcg/day
ECA @ 25/100/81, 2-3 times per day

And 60 minutes fasted cardio daily w/ 1.75-2g protein per lb of mass, carbs from veggies only, & a healthy portion of MCT/EFA's. That right there would shred anyone quick in about 6 weeks.
 
fueledpassion said:
Easily, I would think. In fact, if I were to subscribe a good "natty-like" fat-burning stack to someone, I'd have them take:

Somatozine @ 25mg/day
T3 @ 50mcg/day
ECA @ 25/100/81, 2-3 times per day

And 60 minutes fasted cardio daily w/ 1.75-2g protein per lb of mass, carbs from veggies only, & a healthy portion of MCT/EFA's. That right there would shred anyone quick in about 6 weeks.
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Do you generally include the aspirin for each dose of ECA? I usually don't take the aspirin since a descent dose of fish oil once a day has a similar effect physiologically. Though I suppose it doesn't hurt to include it.

Also why only 100 mg caffeine? Do you find that ratio works better vs 200 mg per dose? (I do 25/200... would 50/200 be any different?)
 
I am currently on DNA MK677 at 30 mg pre bed with 200mcg huperzine a and 3 g melatonin, is Somatozine available for shipping to UK.
 
bigdavid said:
Do you generally include the aspirin for each dose of ECA? I usually don't take the aspirin since a descent dose of fish oil once a day has a similar effect physiologically. Though I suppose it doesn't hurt to include it.

Also why only 100 mg caffeine? Do you find that ratio works better vs 200 mg per dose? (I do 25/200... would 50/200 be any different?)
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Yes, fish oils, white willow bark, nattokinase or even Vit K complex would be ok to replace aspirin with but I'd pick Natto or Fish oils first. I also would recommend 2-4g of Taurine with anything that potentially fiddles with the heart, such as Ephedrine, Clen or Albuterol.

As for the caffeine, if you don't already have a tolerance to it, I'd start at lower doses b/c after all, what is 200mg going to do that 100mg wouldn't also do? I'd rather take more Ephedrine than bump the caffeine to 200mg from the start. Obviously, this depends on tolerance but ideally, we start with those doses above ^^^ and work our way up to 50mg Ephedrine and 200mg caffeine per dose.

Fish oils in place of Aspirin is fine too. But remember, I'm suggesting baby Aspirin, not a full dose.
 
I have taken T3 for 4 weeks and several times for 3 months. If your on AAS you can ramp up to 100mcgs you will sweat like a mad man at night
....
However, I have my best results at 62.5mcgs. yes It is catabolic if you aren't on gear and eating lean. Only take when doing a cut cycle for the summer or if your doing bulk cycle in the winter to enhance protein metabolism.

Best,
Jimpro
 
I have been off T3 for a month now, this is now week 5 off t3 for me, i dropped it cold turkey from a 3 month run, overall i feel fine now, 1st few days to 1 week were rough and i felt sluggish but feel normal now, also have not had any rebound weight gain or fat increase but have been dieting / in a cut for past month to prevent that from occurring.
 
CatSnake said:
Interesting.... I was surprised to see that they inhibited prostaglandins as well....
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That is the main pathway that aspirin takes to inhibit pain, reduce fever and control blood clotting (thins the blood). I'm not sure that Natto takes the same mechanism of action though.

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The doctor on that website link above says you can take 100mg Natto daily with 81mg of Aspirin for enhanced effect on BP since they each take a different pathway and reduce blood pressure in different ways. According to that article, Aspirin makes the platelets less sticky while Natto basically does what plasmin would normally do in the body, which is to break down the enzyme responsible for excessive blood clotting.

Something I didn't know though is that as we age, our body loses its ability to produce adequate amounts of plasmin, making us more at risk of excessive clotting as we age.

The two key ways steroids increase BP is through excessive red blood cell formation, causing thickness and excessive clotting and increased sodium retention in the blood, again causing thicker, denser blood.

My personal thought is to take Natto and Dandelion Root & LIv52. Those three combined keeps your BP in check by reducing clotting, thinning the blood a little bit and keeping the liver and kidneys highly functional even in the midst of methylated steroids. The only other required piece is to drink at minimum a gallon of water per day but preferably about a gallon per 100lbs of lean mass.

Natto @ 100mg/day (recommended dose on bottle)
Dandelion @ 3 grams per day (1500mg X 2)
Liv52 @ 6-9 tablets per day
1 gallon of water per 100lbs of lean mass

Rarely do people have more than 200lbs of lean mass but in those cases, 2G is totally reasonable. I generally try to get 1.5G per day to keep my kidneys flushed out.
 
fueledpassion said:
That is the main pathway that aspirin takes to inhibit pain, reduce fever and control blood clotting (thins the blood). I'm not sure that Natto takes the same mechanism of action though.

Invalid Link Removed

The doctor on that website link above says you can take 100mg Natto daily with 81mg of Aspirin for enhanced effect on BP since they each take a different pathway and reduce blood pressure in different ways. According to that article, Aspirin makes the platelets less sticky while Natto basically does what plasmin would normally do in the body, which is to break down the enzyme responsible for excessive blood clotting.

Something I didn't know though is that as we age, our body loses its ability to produce adequate amounts of plasmin, making us more at risk of excessive clotting as we age.

The two key ways steroids increase BP is through excessive red blood cell formation, causing thickness and excessive clotting and increased sodium retention in the blood, again causing thicker, denser blood.

My personal thought is to take Natto and Dandelion Root & LIv52. Those three combined keeps your BP in check by reducing clotting, thinning the blood a little bit and keeping the liver and kidneys highly functional even in the midst of methylated steroids. The only other required piece is to drink at minimum a gallon of water per day but preferably about a gallon per 100lbs of lean mass.

Natto @ 100mg/day (recommended dose on bottle)
Dandelion @ 3 grams per day (1500mg X 2)
Liv52 @ 6-9 tablets per day
1 gallon of water per 100lbs of lean mass

Rarely do people have more than 200lbs of lean mass but in those cases, 2G is totally reasonable. I generally try to get 1.5G per day to keep my kidneys flushed out.
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thanks for the info , so u think that would be sufficient enough that u don't have to donate blood ?
also I'm doing the female hormone panel blood work before I start my cycle and it says metabolic profile it includes TSH is that good enough to have an idea of thyroid levels before u start a cycle ?
 
hamdysayed said:
thanks for the info , so u think that would be sufficient enough that u don't have to donate blood ?
also I'm doing the female hormone panel blood work before I start my cycle and it says metabolic profile it includes TSH is that good enough to have an idea of thyroid levels before u start a cycle ?
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Unfortunately TSH only isn't adequate to understand your thyroid health.

High TSH but normal to low T4/T3 levels indicates primary hypothyroidism. Low to normal TSH with high T4/T3 levels indicates secondary hypothyroidism which just means that something you are taking is suppressing TSH because it is raising active thyroid. An example of this scenario is taking exogenous T3. Low TSH and low T4/T3 could mean pituitary issues, which is concerning and troublesome.

You need all three at least and even better is to have reverse T3 in there as well.

As for the supps I mentioned above being enough to not have to give blood, it really depends on genetics. If I had seen a few dozen people doing before and after tests with those supps while on steroids, I could definitively tell you so but I can't cause that data doesn't exist. You need to do the CBC test, which is in that female test you mentioned. That is the only way to know for sure. That said, I've heard of natto supplementation alone lowering hematocrit by 3-4% >>> that could be enough to keep you at the edge of normal, which is acceptable for long periods of time.

The other variable is the type of steroid and the dose and length of cycle. Those supps with test only at moderate doses for moderate lengths of time...perhaps it is fine. Perhaps it is plenty. Hard to know for sure until you test. If running Test/Tren/EQ/Anadrol? Absolutely not in the slightest. You'll need to consider almost all options to keep the blood healthy.
 
fueledpassion said:
Unfortunately TSH only isn't adequate to understand your thyroid health.

High TSH but normal to low T4/T3 levels indicates primary hypothyroidism. Low to normal TSH with high T4/T3 levels indicates secondary hypothyroidism which just means that something you are taking is suppressing TSH because it is raising active thyroid. An example of this scenario is taking exogenous T3. Low TSH and low T4/T3 could mean pituitary issues, which is concerning and troublesome.

You need all three at least and even better is to have reverse T3 in there as well.

As for the supps I mentioned above being enough to not have to give blood, it really depends on genetics. If I had seen a few dozen people doing before and after tests with those supps while on steroids, I could definitively tell you so but I can't cause that data doesn't exist. You need to do the CBC test, which is in that female test you mentioned. That is the only way to know for sure. That said, I've heard of natto supplementation alone lowering hematocrit by 3-4% >>> that could be enough to keep you at the edge of normal, which is acceptable for long periods of time.

The other variable is the type of steroid and the dose and length of cycle. Those supps with test only at moderate doses for moderate lengths of time...perhaps it is fine. Perhaps it is plenty. Hard to know for sure until you test. If running Test/Tren/EQ/Anadrol? Absolutely not in the slightest. You'll need to consider almost all options to keep the blood healthy.
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I see, I'll be running 60 mg anavar and transdermal bold base 200mg per ml and test base 100 mg per ml dmso, will do mid cycle bloodwork to check on blood count to be safe.
so which thyroid test u would recommend
 
fueledpassion said:
Unfortunately TSH only isn't adequate to understand your thyroid health.

High TSH but normal to low T4/T3 levels indicates primary hypothyroidism. Low to normal TSH with high T4/T3 levels indicates secondary hypothyroidism which just means that something you are taking is suppressing TSH because it is raising active thyroid. An example of this scenario is taking exogenous T3. Low TSH and low T4/T3 could mean pituitary issues, which is concerning and troublesome.

You need all three at least and even better is to have reverse T3 in there as well.

As for the supps I mentioned above being enough to not have to give blood, it really depends on genetics. If I had seen a few dozen people doing before and after tests with those supps while on steroids, I could definitively tell you so but I can't cause that data doesn't exist. You need to do the CBC test, which is in that female test you mentioned. That is the only way to know for sure. That said, I've heard of natto supplementation alone lowering hematocrit by 3-4% >>> that could be enough to keep you at the edge of normal, which is acceptable for long periods of time.

The other variable is the type of steroid and the dose and length of cycle. Those supps with test only at moderate doses for moderate lengths of time...perhaps it is fine. Perhaps it is plenty. Hard to know for sure until you test. If running Test/Tren/EQ/Anadrol? Absolutely not in the slightest. You'll need to consider almost all options to keep the blood healthy.
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For an 8 week TD test/bold/tren cycle what can you do to keep blood healthy, not talking about regular on-cycle support supps?

Apologies for hijacking the thread

Great info in here!
 
hamdysayed said:
I see, I'll be running 60 mg anavar and transdermal bold base 200mg per ml and test base 100 mg per ml dmso, will do mid cycle bloodwork to check on blood count to be safe.
so which thyroid test u would recommend
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TSH and free T4 should be fine. Some endos also do total T4 and T3. But TSH and Free T4 are adequate for diagnosing any thyroid issue usually.
But to be comprehensive, assuming it doesn’t cost you extra if insurance covers it, do:

TSH
T4
Free T4
T3
(Free T3 If you want to be extra anal about it lol)
 
bigdavid said:
TSH and free T4 should be fine. Some endos also do total T4 and T3. But TSH and Free T4 are adequate for diagnosing any thyroid issue usually.
But to be comprehensive, assuming it doesn’t cost you extra if insurance covers it, do:

TSH
T4
Free T4
T3
(Free T3 If you want to be extra anal about it lol)
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man thyroid tests kinda expensive I'm doing the private md!!!!
 
hamdysayed said:
man thyroid tests kinda expensive I'm doing the private md!!!!
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Honestly people will disagree but as a “screening” tool TSH by itself is fine. If you don’t have symptoms and your TSH is normal then you are fine. If your TSH comes back abnormal or borderline then get more tests. But it’s not worth the $ since you are paying for it yourself
 
hamdysayed said:
thanks for the info , so u think that would be sufficient enough that u don't have to donate blood ?
also I'm doing the female hormone panel blood work before I start my cycle and it says metabolic profile it includes TSH is that good enough to have an idea of thyroid levels before u start a cycle ?
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Donating blood is good for you. There is really no reason not to do it unless your hematocrit or iron is low.
 
bigdavid said:
Honestly people will disagree but as a “screening” tool TSH by itself is fine. If you don’t have symptoms and your TSH is normal then you are fine. If your TSH comes back abnormal or borderline then get more tests. But it’s not worth the $ since you are paying for it yourself
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well I'm only doing it so I can have reference to my levels after t3 cycle is done.
I feel great now
 
hamdysayed said:
well I'm only doing it so I can have reference to my levels after t3 cycle is done.
I feel great now
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In that case just get the TSH and you can compare that to your future value and how you feel. Just assume your levels of T3 and T4 are normal and if you have problems after you use T3 then you can spend money on additional tests if you need to.
 
hamdysayed said:
I see, I'll be running 60 mg anavar and transdermal bold base 200mg per ml and test base 100 mg per ml dmso, will do mid cycle bloodwork to check on blood count to be safe.
so which thyroid test u would recommend
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Complete Thyroid Panel. If you've been on a low carb diet or in a severe deficit, add reverse T3 to it.
 
hamdysayed said:
I can't afford that one right now, what possibly could go wrong after t3 cycle if everyone say it's safe ?
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It's safe but you should expect 2-4 weeks of recovery needed after discontinuing use of T3 before levels get back to normal.

Also, while a rare occurrence, you could have thyroid issues not directly related to T3 supplementation that you end up catching with a blood test.

It's not required, obviously, but having more certainty is always a good thing.
 
fueledpassion said:
It's safe but you should expect 2-4 weeks of recovery needed after discontinuing use of T3 before levels get back to normal.

Also, while a rare occurrence, you could have thyroid issues not directly related to T3 supplementation that you end up catching with a blood test.

It's not required, obviously, but having more certainty is always a good thing.
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oh ok, so basically if I don't have pre existing condition there is no possible way that using t3 can effect thyroid?
thank u
 
hamdysayed said:
oh ok, so basically if I don't have pre existing condition there is no possible way that using t3 can effect thyroid?
thank u
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I can't speak in absolutes but probabilities. Absolute speak would imply I'm all-knowing on the subject which I am not.

You aren't likely to have issues. I'll just say that.
 
If no thyroid condition is present you will not have problems longterm. Emphasis on longterm. As stated above it can take weeks to get back to your normal levels. The thyroid is very resilient, though. You can suppress it for decades and it will still start back up again (assuming the only reason it was low is from exogenous thyroid hormone not a disease)
 
bigdavid said:
If no thyroid condition is present you will not have problems longterm. Emphasis on longterm. As stated above it can take weeks to get back to your normal levels. The thyroid is very resilient, though. You can suppress it for decades and it will still start back up again (assuming the only reason it was low is from exogenous thyroid hormone not a disease)
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perfect thanks, so unless u have an existing issue it should be fine .
and if you are one in a million there might be somewhat of an issue if u r one unlucky individual.
I guess what I was worried about is if it was same concept as aas suppression most of the time u r never the same after that. or at least I was.
thanks yall
 
I am at the middle of my 5th week no T3 after a 120+ day run of 25mcg going upto 50mcg per day, first few days i was lethargic and sluggish and felt like **** in general, then after around 1 week to 9 days i felt more normal, also i have been PSMF dieting for the past 5 weeks whilst off the T3 and dropped all my refeeds I have been getting leaner not gaining fat so despite having suppressed thyroid was able to maintain or even further lower body fat, i am going to start having carb refeeds every week or even 2 per week like before for the next few weeks to allow for leptin to recover to hopefully keep my thyroid levels within normal ranges, i am planning on staying of T3 for another 3 weeks which would mean a full 8 week break from T3 but am not sure if it should be longer and more like 10-12 weeks off.

If i stay lean and am progressing in adding lean muscle mass i see no reason to add it and may save it for next year's cut cycle
 
hamdysayed said:
I see alot of mixed opinion, some love that sh!t and some say hell no don't touch it!
I'm talking about 50 mcg dose max!
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I don't touch anything that can make the heart skip a beat. I'm not scared I just choose not to go there. Clen is way worse though
 
WK 6 for me off T3, i feel the thyroid does recover naturally when T3 is stopped.

Do not know 100% without blood work though, i have not had any negative rebound fat gain, but i keep my diet in check and run at a deficit most of the time now and use carb refeeds bi weekly.
 
paul56778 said:
WK 6 for me off T3, i feel the thyroid does recover naturally when T3 is stopped.

Do not know 100% without blood work though, i have not had any negative rebound fat gain, but i keep my diet in check and run at a deficit most of the time now and use carb refeeds bi weekly.
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sounds goood bigdavid fueledpassion how true that anavar amplify t3 effects?
I'm on anavar so if I take 50 mcg t3 how that would be?
 
hamdysayed said:
sounds goood bigdavid fueledpassion how true that anavar amplify t3 effects?
I'm on anavar so if I take 50 mcg t3 how that would be?
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T3 really is a fatburner, anavar is more of a lean mass builder. I wouldn't put them in the same category at all. Anavar is nice if you're on low body fat while t3 can be used effectively at high body fat, t3 is not gonna give you any muscles.
 
Chados said:
T3 really is a fatburner, anavar is more of a lean mass builder. I wouldn't put them in the same category at all. Anavar is nice if you're on low body fat while t3 can be used effectively at high body fat, t3 is not gonna give you any muscles.
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T3 is both anabolic and catabolic, because it accelerates the processes behind those states.

If you run multiple anabolics such as insulin, GH & Test with the thyroid, T3 can actually speed up anabolic processes while having the catabolic processes mitigated by the other anabolics.

You've got to think of T3 as a catalyst for ALL metabolic processes rather than just causing one state or another. I would say that T3 mainly just accelerates the inevitable outcome 80% of the time but because it also helps insulin sensitivity, It could also contribute to staving off plateaus in cutting or bulking and thus contribute to greater progress than without.
 
I see what you mean , I just wouldn't put them in the same league since one is a steroid for musclemass while the other one isn't. Gaining weight - gaining muscle
 
hamdysayed said:
sounds goood bigdavid fueledpassion how true that anavar amplify t3 effects?
I'm on anavar so if I take 50 mcg t3 how that would be?
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More like T3 amplifying Anavar's effects, and any other effects that your diet and training are accomplishing.

Remember, T3 increases protein turnover, along with everything else the cell does. Search "T3, warehouse" by my username fueledpassion and take a look at those explanantions.
 
Chados said:
I see what you mean , I just wouldn't put them in the same league since one is a steroid for musclemass while the other one isn't. Gaining weight - gaining muscle
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Well, T3 with stronger anabolics & copious amounts of protein in a caloric deficit leads to burning fat and building muscle. I've done it at least 3 times in a row where For about every 2-3lbs of fat I burned I built 1lb of muscle. In one instance, I burned 16-20lbs of fat and built 7-8lbs of muscle while running T3. Needless to say I looked much bigger than before I started.

So your statement is generally true but T3 allows for those scenarios above ^^^ to happen more readily as well.
 
fueledpassion said:
More like T3 amplifying Anavar's effects, and any other effects that your diet and training are accomplishing.

Remember, T3 increases protein turnover, along with everything else the cell does. Search "T3, warehouse" by my username fueledpassion and take a look at those explanantions.
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will do bro thank u for the info fueledpassion I couldn't find the t3 warehouse do u mind pm me the link please ?
 
hamdysayed said:
finished reading thanks for the analogy, so u wouldn't recommend doing keto while on t3 ?
and I was trying to keep carb low high protein high fat on this cycle?
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T3 + Anabolics, yes. T3 alone... Probably not. Atleast do carb cycling. Thing is, low carb blunts TSH, so you'd probably need to take T3 anyways to stay normal. The question is, do you bump T3 dose to suprphysiological levels while cutting? To me, the answer to that entirely depends on 1) how much gear you're taking with it and 2) how precious every pound of muscle is to you.
 
fueledpassion said:
T3 + Anabolics, yes. T3 alone... Probably not. Atleast do carb cycling. Thing is, low carb blunts TSH, so you'd probably need to take T3 anyways to stay normal. The question is, do you bump T3 dose to suprphysiological levels while cutting? To me, the answer to that entirely depends on 1) how much gear you're taking with it and 2) how precious every pound of muscle is to you.
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oh snap, every pound muscle is 100% precious i wouldnt want to sacrifice any....
1-gear is 1 ml of transdermal bold test 100 mg each in dmso 60 mg anavar I can go higher on both I got enough .
2 I don't want to lose any muscle if I can
 
Great thread.
 
A month seems like a lot of trouble. I would do at least 8 weeks.

It just depends really. You can still get some work done with just 4 weeks of T3 but I'd rather just not do it until I could stack with an entire cycle of gear.
 
fueledpassion said:
A month seems like a lot of trouble. I would do at least 8 weeks.

It just depends really. You can still get some work done with just 4 weeks of T3 but I'd rather just not do it until I could stack with an entire cycle of gear.
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what do u mean by alot of trouble bro ?
I mean I could run it for 6 weeks I already started my 50 mcg dose it hit me hard, my 2nd dose is fine today.
 
Well, it take 2-4 weeks for most people to recover from a T3 cycle. During recovery, you have to watch your diet carefully, as your T3 levels will be low for the first week or two after finishing the cycle. So my comment was related to having 4 weeks of cutting with T3 followed by potentially 4 weeks of careful PCT so as to not undue everything accomplished in the T3 cycle.
Would definitely keep the gear in play until you've fully recovered from T3 cycle.

Once you stop, grab some selenium and a reputable source of MK-677 for two reasons.

1) Selenium helps T4 to T3 conversion.
2) Higher IGF levels help conversion to T3 as well
 
fueledpassion said:
Well, it take 2-4 weeks for most people to recover from a T3 cycle. During recovery, you have to watch your diet carefully, as your T3 levels will be low for the first week or two after finishing the cycle. So my comment was related to having 4 weeks of cutting with T3 followed by potentially 4 weeks of careful PCT so as to not undue everything accomplished in the T3 cycle.
Would definitely keep the gear in play until you've fully recovered from T3 cycle.

Once you stop, grab some selenium and a reputable source of MK-677 for two reasons.

1) Selenium helps T4 to T3 conversion.
2) Higher IGF levels help conversion to T3 as well
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oh cool will get selenium n will try to find a good source for the mk677
and as far as the recovery this mak e sense and that's why exactly why I wanted to do 50 mcg for only a month to recover while I'm still on my cycle!
 
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