Massive confusion for winter bulk. Deca only?

[Glycomann]

hmm, i dont why my threads always end up like this, and for the people calling me stubborn and never answering, u need to understand i cant just change my plan or what i had in my mind so easily without being convinced to(barely 2 people gave me an answer that has any meaning and benefit), anyways i removed the thought of deca for now as i will save that for later and am not willing to not run test for that long or atleast take the risk now and suffer from low T sides and ****, anyways what do u guys think of running 500 mg of test E for 12-14 weeks until i enter my cut?

I cant come off please stop telling me to, i know i should but till summer time i really cant please just give me input on my questions.
What i wanted to ask if would 500mg of test only be good for me since i have never ran test that high(im talking receptor wise)?
If any of u think 750 mg of test would be better do say so and if u think i should just go for 500 too, but given diet and training is on point do u think 750 would have that much benefit over 500?
I have arimidex as i am already running it for 0.25 mg M W F now while im on trt dose but if i did hop on 500 then what dosage of adex would u recommend(i get a lot of face bloat)?

Clearly you are not going to come off. Best thing at this pint is to take notes on everything you do so you can figure out what works best for you. GEt the diet and training structure constant and then note the drug use and what the impact is for what you are doing and waht dose, at what duration, at what combination etc. Over then next couple of years you will hae a bunch of data that will help you figure out what is best for YOU. Thenyou won't have to go on boards asking random peopple what thye think is best. Everyone is a little differnt. For instance I was a real outlier when it came to winstrol. Most people would tell you it is just a cutter and a joint killer and only good for the end of cycle polish.. stuff like that. WhenvI used it it was transformative. I would drop from 15% BF to 8% in the first 6 weeks and then end the cycle 12 lbs heavier in single digits. And that was Winstrol V from a vetrinarian as a stand alone. So tht gives you and idea. If ther was an internet back then likely I might have been talked right out of that silly little every other day cycle of Winstrol V. but it was the most transformative cycle I had ever done at that pont and time.

So log everything. Aproach this systematically and learn your body and it's responses.

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

Clearly you are not going to come off. Best thing at this pint is to take notes on everything you do so you can figure out what works best for you. GEt the diet and training structure constant and then note the drug use and what the impact is for what you are doing and waht dose, at what duration, at what combination etc. Over then next couple of years you will hae a bunch of data that will help you figure out what is best for YOU. Thenyou won't have to go on boards asking random peopple what thye think is best. Everyone is a little differnt. For instance I was a real outlier when it came to winstrol. Most people would tell you it is just a cutter and a joint killer and only good for the end of cycle polish.. stuff like that. WhenvI used it it was transformative. I would drop from 15% BF to 8% in the first 6 weeks and then end the cycle 12 lbs heavier in single digits. And that was Winstrol V from a vetrinarian as a stand alone. So tht gives you and idea. If ther was an internet back then likely I might have been talked right out of that silly little every other day cycle of Winstrol V. but it was the most transformative cycle I had ever done at that pont and time.

So log everything. Aproach this systematically and learn your body and it's responses.

Hey Glycomann I love to take notes, been making my own library for years. What are your fav programs for notes, cycles, diet ect. I only use spreadsheets for cycles, diets, and workouts and I use WORD for notes and screenshots...cut and paste style. But I have gotten such a build up that it would be nice to have it in a program that I can view on my phone but use my laptop to configure. I mainly need a table of contents and the ability to hit SERMs and it snap to that page. I waste a lot of time trying to find what I have already learned if that makes sense

 

[Chados]

You're not listening anyways.. You have to decide yourself but I don't know how to help you. Like I said crusing doesn't help gains.. You're too eager for fast results and you'll end up ****ing your body up if you don't stop... period.

 

[JoeStethics]

Clearly you are not going to come off. Best thing at this pint is to take notes on everything you do so you can figure out what works best for you. GEt the diet and training structure constant and then note the drug use and what the impact is for what you are doing and waht dose, at what duration, at what combination etc. Over then next couple of years you will hae a bunch of data that will help you figure out what is best for YOU. Thenyou won't have to go on boards asking random peopple what thye think is best. Everyone is a little differnt. For instance I was a real outlier when it came to winstrol. Most people would tell you it is just a cutter and a joint killer and only good for the end of cycle polish.. stuff like that. WhenvI used it it was transformative. I would drop from 15% BF to 8% in the first 6 weeks and then end the cycle 12 lbs heavier in single digits. And that was Winstrol V from a vetrinarian as a stand alone. So tht gives you and idea. If ther was an internet back then likely I might have been talked right out of that silly little every other day cycle of Winstrol V. but it was the most transformative cycle I had ever done at that pont and time.

So log everything. Aproach this systematically and learn your body and it's responses.

Thats very ****ing true, i was noting how i would barely suffer from tren sides other than a lot of sweating during the day and barely some night sweats but i started doubting if it was real and it starts ****ing with my mind, what do u think i should try for this winter?
I know asked this a lot but after all these responses i got lost even more, high test moderate tren like 750 test 450 tren(remember most my **** is underdosed and not full 100% mg of the hormone) or test and deca at like 400:400 or any ideas u have(im looking for something that wont really bloat me much just minimal if any at all which is why i would even use letro if i have to but im sticking to adex for now as i also dont wanna crash e2)? The deca only cycle i will not be trying as i dont wanna risk going through low T which was the whole reason why i didnt come off

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

Thats very ****ing true, i was noting how i would barely suffer from tren sides other than a lot of sweating during the day and barely some night sweats but i started doubting if it was real and it starts ****ing with my mind, what do u think i should try for this winter?
I know asked this a lot but after all these responses i got lost even more, high test moderate tren like 750 test 450 tren(remember most my **** is underdosed and not full 100% mg of the hormone) or test and deca at like 400:400 or any ideas u have(im looking for something that wont really bloat me much just minimal if any at all which is why i would even use letro if i have to but im sticking to adex for now as i also dont wanna crash e2)? The deca only cycle i will not be trying as i dont wanna risk going through low T which was the whole reason why i didnt come off

Dude you can never go wrong with a moderate triange [1 compound from each group] My fav is Sust/Deca/EQ but if your not down with Sust swap it for Test-C. Since your new and your body isn't used to Test& varaons you can run this as low as 250mg/250mg/350mg. You pick the mg for each depending on how your cycle will go I like Sust/test at 350-400, Deca at 350-500 and Eq at 450-750. I like sust because each other compound is long estered and meant for a longer bigger cycle so if you go this rout 15 weeks is minimum but best to go 4-5 months. These compounds work so synergetic with each other you could go with low mg [I'm adding 25% for underdosed gear] Sust 375mg/ Deca 400mg/ EQ 575mg this is equal to 300mg/350mg/450mg. Sust is made for a e5d pin but make it simple and do 2x/week. I'm guessing you mainly want to bulk so you should stay away from tons of carbs but fats and some sugar is fine. I usually like to frontload deca and EQ but you should never frontload a new compound so if you want to pin Test-P at 200mg for first 2 weeks along with sust you'll be right on the 300mg mark. I'm giving you more info than you really need but that's because your new and you should be fully aware of how to run your stack in diff ways.

This is my all time fave stack 0 sides, low mg, cost effective, very versatile IE if you really want to harden up and lose fat you run EQ at 650, If you have diet tuned in you run deca at 550 and drop eq down. If you respond better to Test you up that and drop Deca down [this is why your first cycle should be only Test]. For me I always run Nandro at least 50mg higher than test but some ppl are the opposite. The same cycle can be run in a more modern and speedy way Test-C/Dynabol [nandro c]/ Bold-C these compounds are great and I think improvement on the classics but rare and sometimes pricey. As another idea for down the road [ too early for experimenting] Is running EQ 700mg/ Deca 600mg and no Test but that is for a diff day and a diff thread.

 

[Chados]

You cant run tren that high that's insane.. if you want the actual sides you do that. The amount you need is very little.. tren is not a massive bulker but it's so clean that many consider it the most effective compound out there. Add dbol or anadrol and tren becomes a beast. Tren will build even at deficit, it's that strong.. You want nice size or more size? That's tren vs deca.. deca can be clean but not like tren

Test deca dbol is also one classic for size. I personally don't like dbol but that's me.

 

[JoeStethics]

You cant run tren that high that's insane.. if you want the actual sides you do that. The amount you need is very little.. tren is not a massive bulker but it's so clean that many consider it the most effective compound out there. Add dbol or anadrol and tren becomes a beast. Tren will build even at deficit, it's that strong.. You want nice size or more size? That's tren vs deca.. deca can be clean but not like tren

Test deca dbol is also one classic for size. I personally don't like dbol but that's me.

Nice size ofc as i hate looking bloated but i also want to actually add size not like barely 4-6 lbs of muscle.
Tren at 450 isnt that high, i ran it up to 600 last cycle and didnt the sides that bad just as i said the sweats which can be linked to something else, which is why im starting to think my tren is fake, im gonna try a different brand this time which is supposed to be better but from the same supplier.

 

[CatSnake]

Im still getting stuck in this confusion, i either run test tren dbol or deca and winstrol but the thing is i wanna know what deca only cycle(with winstrol in this case) has to offer and does it cause that bloated look, now i know diet is the main key but i dont think i would be as comfortable with a compound that bloats me with eating a lot like i would with tren.
I really wish people who have done a deca only cycle could chime in.

And even the guys who havent tried it what do u guys think i should run the test tren dbol which would look like
Test E 125mg/week (injecting 250 every other week)
Tren hex 450mg/week (1-12/14)(UGL lab and my supplier is telling me i may be actually getting around 300-350 of actual tren so might up it to 600 if u guys recommend)
Dbol 30-40 mg (3-6) or should i run this for 6 weeks with proper liver support?
An idea i had was if since im running test year round for now, i would make this like a 20 week cycle first 8-10 weeks being a bulk(while staying relatively lean) then cutting for the rest with test tren, and maybe running masteron at back hand of cycle(just another idea).

The deca winstrol cycle would look like this
Deca 600mg (1-12)
Winstrol pyramid starting from 30 mg and ending at 60mg(4-9)
This would be a pure bulk but maybe first 4 weeks i would be at a deficit just until the deca is fully in my system also give me ur thoughts.


So feel free to give me all ur thoughts and suggestions on what to change and what u think i should do and all that.

these are some of the dumbest cycles I've seen in a while....

what are your previous cycles?

 

[JoeStethics]

Dude you can never go wrong with a moderate triange [1 compound from each group] My fav is Sust/Deca/EQ but if your not down with Sust swap it for Test-C. Since your new and your body isn't used to Test& varaons you can run this as low as 250mg/250mg/350mg. You pick the mg for each depending on how your cycle will go I like Sust/test at 350-400, Deca at 350-500 and Eq at 450-750. I like sust because each other compound is long estered and meant for a longer bigger cycle so if you go this rout 15 weeks is minimum but best to go 4-5 months. These compounds work so synergetic with each other you could go with low mg [I'm adding 25% for underdosed gear] Sust 375mg/ Deca 400mg/ EQ 575mg this is equal to 300mg/350mg/450mg. Sust is made for a e5d pin but make it simple and do 2x/week. I'm guessing you mainly want to bulk so you should stay away from tons of carbs but fats and some sugar is fine. I usually like to frontload deca and EQ but you should never frontload a new compound so if you want to pin Test-P at 200mg for first 2 weeks along with sust you'll be right on the 300mg mark. I'm giving you more info than you really need but that's because your new and you should be fully aware of how to run your stack in diff ways.

This is my all time fave stack 0 sides, low mg, cost effective, very versatile IE if you really want to harden up and lose fat you run EQ at 650, If you have diet tuned in you run deca at 550 and drop eq down. If you respond better to Test you up that and drop Deca down [this is why your first cycle should be only Test]. For me I always run Nandro at least 50mg higher than test but some ppl are the opposite. The same cycle can be run in a more modern and speedy way Test-C/Dynabol [nandro c]/ Bold-C these compounds are great and I think improvement on the classics but rare and sometimes pricey. As another idea for down the road [ too early for experimenting] Is running EQ 700mg/ Deca 600mg and no Test but that is for a diff day and a diff thread.

How was the bloat on that cycle say i run 300 test/400 deca/ 600 EQ(might not add EQ if its gonna be really expensive and not be worth it).
I really really suffer from face bloat.

 

[JoeStethics]

these are some of the dumbest cycles I've seen in a while....

what are your previous cycles?

I got rid of the deca only thought, but it was supposed to be something new and unique but forget about it.
I have had one failed cycle of Test E and EQ which i stopped at week 6 but it did put on a **** ton of weight so i wasted my virgin receptors for 4-5kg of muscle. I dont count this as a cycle but i always mention it.
Second cycle was
Test 150mg/week(1-10)
Tren 400-600(tapered up) mg/week(really suspecting that this is legit tren)(1-10)
Winstrol(2-4) 20 up to 40 mg ed.

 

[CatSnake]

I got rid of the deca only thought, but it was supposed to be something new and unique but forget about it.
I have had one failed cycle of Test E and EQ which i stopped at week 6 but it did put on a **** ton of weight so i wasted my virgin receptors for 4-5kg of muscle. I dont count this as a cycle but i always mention it.
Second cycle was
Test 150mg/week(1-10)
Tren 400-600(tapered up) mg/week(really suspecting that this is legit tren)(1-10)
Winstrol(2-4) 20 up to 40 mg ed.

if you want to bulk, then just bump up the test.

and eat.

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

How was the bloat on that cycle say i run 300 test/400 deca/ 600 EQ(might not add EQ if its gonna be really expensive and not be worth it).
I really really suffer from face bloat.

EQ should be 1 of the cheaper oof the 3 and works extremely well to harden and dry out your deca gains. even if you dont want to run it at 700 at least run 450 cuz they all work together. EQ is usually in a 300mg vial and 25% more than a vial of test....no where the cost of tren.

you are going to big to fast though you will be surprised how little you need of each. im 6'4 265 and just ran a recomp , lost about 30 lbs of fat and gained 23lb in muscle off a 350/ 450/ 450

 

[JoeStethics]

EQ should be 1 of the cheaper oof the 3 and works extremely well to harden and dry out your deca gains. even if you dont want to run it at 700 at least run 450 cuz they all work together. EQ is usually in a 300mg vial and 25% more than a vial of test....no where the cost of tren.

you are going to big to fast though you will be surprised how little you need of each. im 6'4 265 and just ran a recomp , lost about 30 lbs of fat and gained 23lb in muscle off a 350/ 450/ 450

Holy **** what was ur diet like? now im not as tall and big as u but getting an idea of ur diet would benefit me.

 

[JoeStethics]

if you want to bulk, then just bump up the test.

and eat.

Thats what i was thinking especially because if im on tren i know i can eat like a horse and not feel guilty which would definitely be better for growth,
i would just need something for my appetite since its usually suppressed on tren, when i was cutting with tren i felt my appetite increasing but when i was bulking for the last 4 weeks i couldnt eat i had to stuff 4-5k calories while feeling like **** and wanting to vomit all the time, but i figured on high test this wouldnt be an issue, so something like 750 test and 450 tren with a pretty ****ing high carb and high protein diet with good fats hitting no less than 4k calories a day and shooting for 5k and if i hit a plateau maybe 6k should do me good in gaining around 10-15 lbs of muscle given my stats?

But i like FRITZBLITZ cycle with the test deca and eq, plus i my first failed cycle something did treat me right on it so it could be the test or eq so running both again at better doses,correctly with deca is definitely something i look forward to.

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

Holy **** what was ur diet like? now im not as tall and big as u but getting an idea of ur diet would benefit me.

1] i ate about 2lbs of either chix breast, 97% burger[1-2 lbs at a time], tuna that i hate but is cheap 2] tons of frozen brocoli coliflower carrot mix 3] no more than 3 cups of carbs b4 6pm, 4] ..6eggs raw every morning , 5]....2 pb and banana sanwich snacks w 2 pints 1% milk and no cheat days

 

[JoeStethics]

1] i ate about 2lbs of either chix breast, 97% burger[1-2 lbs at a time], tuna that i hate but is cheap 2] tons of frozen brocoli coliflower carrot mix 3] no more than 3 cups of carbs b4 6pm, 4] ..6eggs raw every morning , 5]....2 pb and banana sanwich snacks w 2 pints 1% milk and no cheat days

Im going for 250/450/600-800 EQ
and my diet probably wont be like urs since fat loss isnt my goal, i will try to hit 4-5k but i know i wont be as comfortable as i would be with tren so my carb intake will probably be less and so will my calories probably, what dose adex would u run with this or any other ancillaries?

Did u find any other style or new way of training to work specifically well with this cycle?
This is a question for everyone here too, i want to change something in my training as i feel my body has plateaud and i could really benefit from a new and shocking way to maximise gains on cycle wether it be different split or frequency or volume anything really. Many old school guys have been telling me about 4x20 for everything and focusing on mind muscle with it but just give me ur thoughts and ideas and what worked for u guys.

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

Hmm, since fat loss isnt my goal is there anything with the doses u think i should change? im going for 300/450/600-800 EQ
and my diet probably wont be like urs i will try to hit 4-5k but i know i wont be as comfortable as i would be with tren so my carb intake will probably be less and so will my calories probably, what dose adex would u run with this or any other ancillaries?

EQ for most raises your appetite ,not for me but thats good for you. you dont have to be strict at all. i eat cheap cuz i eat alot so keep the meats and eggs and milk if you like those and add clean fats like 80% burger, olive oil dressing, nuts and eat normal carbs just don't eat a birthday cake at 9pm

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

if moonface is a problem add real cranberry juice, potassium at 40mg and dandelion root extract and watch salt and phosphorus

 

[JoeStethics]

if moonface is a problem add real cranberry juice, potassium at 40mg and dandelion root extract and watch salt and phosphorus

Does ocean spray cranberry light count as real cranberry juice? and yeh i may start using potassium and dandelion, thanks for this beast cycle man it looks good.

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

Does ocean spray cranberry light count as real cranberry juice? and yeh i may start using potassium and dandelion, thanks for this beast cycle man it looks good.

i wish ocean spray counted i love it. you have to buy 100% cran, super tart but you need that concentration. plus there may be something in your diet or life that slows kidney function and cell h20 retention. i cant remember the usual suspects but try cutting certain things for 2 weeks many times its something you mainly crave on cycle

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

Does ocean spray cranberry light count as real cranberry juice? and yeh i may start using potassium and dandelion, thanks for this beast cycle man it looks good.

your welcome for advise thats what we are all here for. i think when you learn more about how things work together youll see you can get biggest mg for mg for mg by cycling smart not extreme. CatSnake mentioned raising Test. this is not a bad idea many ppl respond to Test best so if i were you i would pin Test on a separate day that way you can find out whats best for you. But i guarantee this cycle will work for you without any draw backs

 

[Chados]

5 lbs of muscle isn't little... You don't need tren above 400 as it will cause sides and not much gains.. tren and test is not something that's gonna blow your mind when it comes to weight. Deca beats tren , anadrol beats tren, dbol beats tren but the extra fat and water doesn't show up on tren and that's why it's in its own league.


The thing is when you stack tren with some bulking compound youll see what I'm talking about.

Why not just run deca and dbol with test?
Or even better eq deca test

 

[jakz]

You are obviously set on doing this and that is your choice. I said this on a different thread and I'll say it here as well, Deca only is a proven cycle of the Golden Era, however to, theoretically, make recovery easier I would recommend:

Weeks 1-12- Deca at 300/400mg ew.

Weeks 9-15- Test Cyp at 125-150mg ew.

Two weeks post Test standard PCT.
My .02c

 

[unorthodoxica]

running EQ 700mg/ Deca 600mg and no Test but that is for a diff day and a diff thread.

You just triggered some great memories man.

If Tren did not exist, this would probably be my best alternative with zero of the sides. To me EQ is interchangeable with Test it's just not cost efficient for me to run on TRT and RBC count becomes annoying.

If OP wants to experiment and be on the safe side, this is the way to go. Ran 1000mgs EQ & 300mg Deca and my only side effect was waking up every morning thinking I was going to die from hunger. I'm talking tears would drop man. Vascular and full as hell.

 

[mike33511]

Just speculating here, but a big reason that guys might have done Deca-only cycles a long time ago could have been that AI's didn't exist. They wanted the anabolic power of nandrolone without the aromatization of a test/Deca stack. Can anyone come up with a better explanation?

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

You just triggered some great memories man.

If Tren did not exist, this would probably be my best alternative with zero of the sides. To me EQ is interchangeable with Test it's just not cost efficient for me to run on TRT and RBC count becomes annoying.

If OP wants to experiment and be on the safe side, this is the way to go. Ran 1000mgs EQ & 300mg Deca and my only side effect was waking up every morning thinking I was going to die from hunger. I'm talking tears would drop man. Vascular and full as hell.

Agreed! EQ is very versatile and goes with Deca like a foot and a boot but dont you think a moderate triangle like i layed out is safer than trying massive doses of 2 new compouds
plus my first cycle was SUST 300mg/ EQ 450 and it changed me forever. small mg but massive gains and stregnth. Add deca to that and you have a 0 sides powerhouse for a second cycle.

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

Just speculating here, but a big reason that guys might have done Deca-only cycles a long time ago could have been that AI's didn't exist. They wanted the anabolic power of nandrolone without the aromatization of a test/Deca stack. Can anyone come up with a better explanation?

You are probably right. i still run into an old vet that talks about deca like its the fountain of youth

 

[unorthodoxica]

Agreed! EQ is very versatile and goes with Deca like a foot and a boot but dont you think a moderate triangle like i layed out is safer than trying massive doses of 2 new compouds
plus my first cycle was SUST 300mg/ EQ 450 and it changed me forever. small mg but massive gains and stregnth. Add deca to that and you have a 0 sides powerhouse for a second cycle.

I know this might sound out there but I've always treated EQ to be dosed twice as much as you would Test. In all honesty, I whipped this calculation out of my butt when noticing EQ is half as androgenic as Test but this has been the staple I spread around my circle of juicers and its been a pretty good guideline in everyone's eyes.

So when you say a mega dose of EQ (a relatively weaker compound we have to admit) it's funny because to me I see 1,000mgs of EQ as roughly 500mgs of Test alongside my suggested 300mg of Deca. Nothing crazy at all. Skewed to my benefit? Maybe :dunno:

At the same token I'm just tired of people bashing EQ as a useless compound so I highly encourage everyone to run it super high their first time so they can really feel what one of my favorite compounds has to offer. As long as they donate some blood every 4-12 weeks I don't see any other alarming side effect that makes my encouragement foolish.

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

I know this might sound out there but I've always treated EQ to be dosed twice as much as you would Test. In all honesty, I whipped this calculation out of my butt when noticing EQ is half as androgenic as Test but this has been the staple I spread around my circle of juicers and its been a pretty good guideline in everyone's eyes.

So when you say a mega dose of EQ (a relatively weaker compound we have to admit) it's funny because to me I see 1,000mgs of EQ as roughly 500mgs of Test alongside my suggested 300mg of Deca. Nothing crazy at all. Skewed to my benefit? Maybe :dunno:

At the same token I'm just tired of people bashing EQ as a useless compound so I highly encourage everyone to run it super high their first time so they can really feel what one of my favorite compounds has to offer. As long as they donate some blood every 4-12 weeks I don't see any other alarming side effect that makes my encouragement foolish.

I agree with your whole statement except the caculation but before that I know that EQ usually needs to be ran high 600+... Have you noticed EQ acts diff when mixed with diff compounds? EQ and Tren is diff than Deca and EQ. And I think it's potency changes with what it's comboed with.

Hear is just my off the cuff calc1000mg Test, 10% turnes to DHT, then 30% turnes to Estro so your left with 600mg
1000mg EQ 30% is suseptical to aromatase leaving you with 650mg DHT ish and 250mg Test ish cut in half from aromatase left with 125mg+650mg of mostley androgenic chem.

But you might be right I'm just throwing this around

 

[JoeStethics]

jakz unorthodoxica u bastards are starting to get me right back where i started, all confused and lost haha

 

[JoeStethics]

I agree with your whole statement except the caculation but before that I know that EQ usually needs to be ran high 600+... Have you noticed EQ acts diff when mixed with diff compounds? EQ and Tren is diff than Deca and EQ. And I think it's potency changes with what it's comboed with.

Hear is just my off the cuff calc1000mg Test, 10% turnes to DHT, then 30% turnes to Estro so your left with 600mg
1000mg EQ 30% is suseptical to aromatase leaving you with 650mg DHT ish and 250mg Test ish cut in half from aromatase left with 125mg+650mg of mostley androgenic chem.

But you might be right I'm just throwing this around

**** me man, im just scared of running deca and getting the bloated look which i dont wanna go through for now, i always left the test deca dbol cycle for later on if i ever did need to put on that much mass, i am very pleased with my size and would even settle with being smaller but what i want is that lean muscle mass so that when i cut down it really shines, i really think tren is my best go which is why i wanted to ask what do u think of test tren eq i have heard many saying they wouldnt run anything else plus eq would really help my appetite on tren which seems perfect, it would either be Test/tren/eq at
250/500-700/600-800 or 750/500/800 which one do u think?
As i said the tren is that high because over here it just doesnt seem to be fully dosed tren, i am going to be trying a new brand and its a blend too which has tren a,hex,and E.
To see how confused i am on what to run, the idea of stacking dbol or anadrol with test and tren as Chados said is also something that sounds to be beast since adding tren as an accessory compound to a bulking cycle is where it shines as i read.

 

[Chados]

I wouldn't stack anadrol with tren if I were you cause you're basically too young to mess with such a harsh cycle. Deca won't bloat you at a low dose and you won't need that much. Keep test and deca at say 3-400 or you could keep test a bit lower which will decrease bloat and add eq not dbol.

Deca is not a bloating monster at all, tren is just at another level but it doesn't make deca a bloater by itself. You're over worrying..

Deca dbol primo eq winstrol anavar masteron are all good for your cycle. Don't think you'd be unhappy with deca test eq

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

**** me man, im just scared of running deca and getting the bloated look which i dont wanna go through for now, i always left the test deca dbol cycle for later on if i ever did need to put on that much mass, i am very pleased with my size and would even settle with being smaller but what i want is that lean muscle mass so that when i cut down it really shines, i really think tren is my best go which is why i wanted to ask what do u think of test tren eq i have heard many saying they wouldnt run anything else plus eq would really help my appetite on tren which seems perfect, it would either be Test/tren/eq at
250/500-700/600-800 or 750/500/800 which one do u think?
As i said the tren is that high because over here it just doesnt seem to be fully dosed tren, i am going to be trying a new brand and its a blend too which has tren a,hex,and E.
To see how confused i am on what to run, the idea of stacking dbol or anadrol with test and tren as Chados said is also something that sounds to be beast since adding tren as an accessory compound to a bulking cycle is where it shines as i read.

Dude If I can drop 30lbs on the same cycle you can keep from getting bloated. Deca is not a wet compound, Dbol is but if your diet is right and you keep Estro down from the other compounds Deca is less wet than Test. You are trying to get the gear do the work for you! It can only enhance what you are already doing. You should not be fukking up your future cycles running tren or test at that MG.If you really just want to jump to when youre 28 and 1.5 gr of gear is the minimum you have to run to get an effect then go ahead.

What I'm trying to teach you is that more is not better. Sust 300mg/ Deca 450mg/ EQ 650mg is like running 1.5 gr of Test without much estro conversion and your only sunning 1300mg and if you think 200mg doesn't effect anything then you are depending on gear way too much. But if thats is your stubborn decision then run EQ at 700mg/ Tren 350mg no test you'll have the driest cycle that won't stay with you. But you are acting like all you are not running an AI or a good diet. Plus treat the issue not the symptoms

 

[JoeStethics]

Dude If I can drop 30lbs on the same cycle you can keep from getting bloated. Deca is not a wet compound, Dbol is but if your diet is right and you keep Estro down from the other compounds Deca is less wet than Test. You are trying to get the gear do the work for you! It can only enhance what you are already doing. You should not be fukking up your future cycles running tren or test at that MG.If you really just want to jump to when youre 28 and 1.5 gr of gear is the minimum you have to run to get an effect then go ahead.

What I'm trying to teach you is that more is not better. Sust 300mg/ Deca 450mg/ EQ 650mg is like running 1.5 gr of Test without much estro conversion and your only sunning 1300mg and if you think 200mg doesn't effect anything then you are depending on gear way too much. But if thats is your stubborn decision then run EQ at 700mg/ Tren 350mg no test you'll have the driest cycle that won't stay with you. But you are acting like all you are not running an AI or a good diet. Plus treat the issue not the symptoms

Deca being a bloat monster is what i have been told which is why i fear it, but im thinking of just going for it and getting really lean before starting this cycle( the test deca eq).
How long u think i should run this and what dose of adex would u recommend to keep bloat down at 250/450/600-800

 

[CatSnake]

Just speculating here, but a big reason that guys might have done Deca-only cycles a long time ago could have been that AI's didn't exist. They wanted the anabolic power of nandrolone without the aromatization of a test/Deca stack. Can anyone come up with a better explanation?

yeah, I think that's the reason for a lot of guys. I still see the deca/winstrol cycle posted as a recommended 2nd cycle for guys for that reason...

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

Deca being a bloat monster is what i have been told which is why i fear it, but im thinking of just going for it and getting really lean before starting this cycle( the test deca eq).
How long u think i should run this and what dose of adex would u recommend to keep bloat down at 250/450/600-800

Only lazy uninformed ppl think deca is wet. it has no estro conversion! at the start of this thread you were going to run 800mg of deca now its bad??? stick to the 0 side effect moderate cycle at 300mg/450mg/600mg and up dose for underdosed gear. keep in mind i ran the same cycle with less gear and great results. adex should start week 2 at .5mg e3d then keep eye on estro signs cus it will go up.you need to have cabergolin on hand, you will only need if estro stays elivated and prolactin builds up. run the cycle for 18 weeks. you stop eq 1 week early as you will have a swell of undec esters that need to unleash along with deca esters. As i mentioned before watch your water minerals and take natty diaretic. I already told you your diet you should be set for 18 weeks of aggressive growth. when you master deca you can think of other cycles but for now stick to the idea that 1mg+1mg=3mg of proper stacked gear.

 

[Chados]

Deca being a bloat monster is what i have been told which is why i fear it, but im thinking of just going for it and getting really lean before starting this cycle( the test deca eq).
How long u think i should run this and what dose of adex would u recommend to keep bloat down at 250/450/600-800

Maybe mentioned but test is the thing that will give deca bloat so keep test low.. you could go 3-400 on both or test a bit lower than the deca. Personally I like keeping them equal but many would go test 300/deca 400 as an example. arimidex or aromasin is fine

 

[unorthodoxica]

If this is what you're set on then I'll add my outlook on how it should be ran:

Test 200mg/wk
Wks 1-20

Deca 300mg/wk
Wks 1-18

EQ 800mg/wk
Wks 1-16

Tbol 40mg/ed
Wks 1-6


I added the Tbol cause honestly I feel you're impatient and this is a cycle that will take a couple weeks to get going. Also lowered the Deca cause I've never needed to use more than 300mg Deca. You can raise at your discretion after like week 5/6.

 

[mike33511]

Only lazy uninformed ppl think deca is wet. it has no estro conversion! at the start of this thread you were going to run 800mg of deca now its bad??? stick to the 0 side effect moderate cycle at 300mg/450mg/600mg and up dose for underdosed gear. keep in mind i ran the same cycle with less gear and great results. adex should start week 2 at .5mg e3d then keep eye on estro signs cus it will go up.you need to have cabergolin on hand, you will only need if estro stays elivated and prolactin builds up. run the cycle for 18 weeks. you stop eq 1 week early as you will have a swell of undec esters that need to unleash along with deca esters. As i mentioned before watch your water minerals and take natty diaretic. I already told you your diet you should be set for 18 weeks of aggressive growth. when you master deca you can think of other cycles but for now stick to the idea that 1mg+1mg=3mg of proper stacked gear.

Both Deca and EQ do aromatize.

 

[CatSnake]

Both Deca and EQ do aromatize.

yup.

albeit at a lower rate than testosterone, but they do aromatize...

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

Both Deca and EQ do aromatize.

Deca aromatises at 2% and EQ at under 30% so you still have a drier cycle than just test

 

[CatSnake]

Deca aromatises at 2% and EQ at under 30% so you still have a drier cycle than just test

I'm curious as to where you got those numbers....

I've never seen any clinical data on boldenone before.

 

[fueledpassion]

The biggest risks associated with long cycles without proper monitoring and supplementation is kidney damage and arterial health/excessive enlargement of the heart.

Both of these occur with high blood pressure. And no, just because you aren't getting nose bleeds or headaches doesn't mean your BP is ok. Being 10-20 points high on systolic and 7-15 points high on diastolic for a few years is enough to cause permanent damage to kidneys and an enlarged heart. It puts a lot of wear and tear on your organs and plumbing. Imagine an engine needing to run 80-120psi of oil pressure all the time - it would burn out the oil pump quickly just like we see in race engines. I'm not gonna bother to explain which body part correlates to the oil pump...

Couple that with the fact that many of these steroids at higher doses will causes abnornal blood clotting and can harden/collapse certain arteries as well, leading to an eventual stroke.

For every dollar you put into steroids, you need another dollar or two going into keeping your cardiovascular system healthy.

 

[mike33511]

Deca aromatises at 2% and EQ at under 30% so you still have a drier cycle than just test

I had read 20% and 50%, but I'm not sure that anyone really knows an exact number.

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

I had read 20% and 50%, but I'm not sure that anyone really knows an exact number.

I could be off a bit, I'm not looking at notes. But these 2 compounds I use alot and have good info on the %of conversion

 

[JoeStethics]

Hey guys, this is basically a deca vs tren for me.
I see some of u guys are talking about a long cycle i think the test deca eq i would be on for 14-16 maybe deca for 14 and eq for 16 if anything.
I wanted to share my body composition test and according to that u might recommend one of the following
Test 250 mg/week 1-16
Deca 450 mg/week 1-14
Eq 800 mg/week 1-16
Keep in mind probably a bit underdosed
Or
Test 500 1-12
Tren blend 500mg/week 1-12
Could extend to 14 weeks but i doubt that would be necessary and one thing to note is i would probably eat around 5-6k cals on the test and tren around 60-70% clean while i would aim for a max 4k on test deca and eq fearing bloat but 80-90% clean.
Something to keep in mind on which would yield more muscle gains in ur opinion.


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I was fascinated from the difference from my last test which was when i was done cutting but binged for around 2 weeks.(the difference is shown at the bottom of the paper)

 

[fueledpassion]

Test/Tren will yield more muscle mass. 1) because Tren is stronger than Deca/EQ combined in terms of lean mass gains and 2), as you said, you'll eat more. Alot more.

But I'd only do that option if 1) I was prepared to deal with the sides and 2) my pre-existing health condition was fair at worst. Health being my kidney, BP and cholesterol values were at decent levels and were tracking in the right direction.

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

dude i think this is my last post on this topic: i dont know where you get your gear but if its always underdosed how do you know youre getting? I dont get tren sides as bad as my bros but if i was on 500/500 i would be a raging bull, raping and pillaging. i took tren that hi once and all i did was gym, eat and get angry at everything.

what is the tren combo and how are you supposed to pin it. if your ready for 500mg of tren do it with proper ancillaries. tren is without contest the strongest steroid, why do you think anyone takes anything else ? its cuz REAL tren is no joke at 500mg, 800mg is about highest you can take without serious health issues

I was trying to show you how to downshift and learn about how to still get great gains. 300/450/600 is proper, and learn about esters you wud run deca full run and cut eq a week short. youre acting like any teenager...you know enough to do anything . you are saying fukk punk azz cocaine, i want the crystal meth banged right in the vain. just out of curiousity what is your next cycle 800mg test / 1000mg tren? you should research how big most pros are when/if they start tren

 

[Nac]

And still, not a single mention has been made by OP of any support supps.

But oh, wait, 72.8665% "clean diet".

 

[Chados]

Dude it's easy, deca more weight, tren amazing gains. Safety deca - tren. Your choice