My issue is that not a single testosterone booster than I know has any real world results. I agree that PCT and potentially on cycle support is important and should be suggested (it's in our warning to licensee's). Testosterone boosters, even the best of them (Novedex XT and 6-OXO) have failed to produce mass gains even at the very highest levels. My conclusion stands, as long as one is aware of the slight risks and does it properly it has benefits over testosterone boosters.
Testosterone is responsible for the closing of growth plates (conversion to estrogen) and plant extracts often contain estrogenic compounds which have the dangers of making your dick stop growing and your bones to stop growing. The right prohormones taken with the proper support supplements (which the cholesterol and liver may be due to the combination with 6,7 DHB since no other natural prohormones have shown this effect) can actually help males get the gains that they desire.
Estrogen does improve lipid levels "We studied the effect of Withania somnifera (WS) root extract (ethanolic), which contains oestrogen-like withanolides for anti-osteoporotic activity."
There are numerous estrogenic compounds in herbal extracts and that's also something men need a warning for when choosing supplements. DAA can increase aromatase. I don't make products, but I do suggest always a strong and proper warning is on each bottle.
There is so much wrong with this post I don't even know where to start, so I suppose the beginning is as good a place as any. Let's go:
No one is even coming anywhere close to saying that PHs don't have benefits over testosterone boosters. Nice straw man. I completely agree that PHs will yield significantly greater gains in strength and size than testosterone boosters, but also does come with more significant potential adverse effects. Can they be managed? Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that the risks are present, and can be significant, and should be considered and addressed, not shrugged off. As for no testosterone booster producing results, they won't produce results by increasing testosterone per se, but I can show you numerous studies showing that ingredients like ashwagandha, forskolin, etc have been shown to improve body composition, endurance, etc. Granted, it's not close to the same degree as PHs, but it's not "nothing," and they also do, whether you want to admit it or not, have a more favorable safety profile than PHs. Both natural products and PHs have their place. You trying to write off the natural products completely is incorrect.
Are you really recommending prohormones to people whose growth plates are still growing? And even more, recommending them for the purpose of maximizing growth potential for adolescents and young adults? That's asinine. I'm almost at a loss for words. Can we get an Admin in here to see if these recommendations and suggestions are really something we should be allowing and condoning?
As for you mentioning estrogen in regards to ashwagandha, you just love playing with semantics and wording to completely pervert actual meanings and conclusions, don't you? Ashwagandha has been shown in numerous studies to improve testosterone, body composition, endurance, sexual function, etc. What is the practical application of you mentioning estrogen in regards to ashwagandha except fear mongering? There is none.
Your last paragraph is beyond laughable. It's the pot calling the kettle black, except the pot is vantablack, and the kettle is actually dark grey. You think that we should warn people about the estrogenic compounds in ashwagandha? But you're the one recommending prohormones to new, inexperienced, uneducated lifters, claiming that they're "safe because they're legal." Not that they can be ran safely if the potential adverse effects are monitored and minimized, but that they're "safe" by virtue of being legal. You also claimed that these PHs increase your natural testosterone production, which is, at best, a terrible perversion of the semantics of the matter, and completely contrary to the truth, which is that these PHs will lead to at least some level of suppression, if not shutdown, of natural testosterone production upon cessation of use.
I could probably type pages and pages about all the things you've said that are, at best, misleading, and, at worst, completely incorrect and irresponsible, but I think I've made my point(s) clear already, as evidenced by the many people liking, agreeing with, and repping me for my comments and concerns. At this point, I'm just wasting my time going back and forth with you, and you still haven't even addressed most of the points/issues/concerns I presented, but only responded to your own made up questions and concerns, as that's the only way you are able to make an argument that makes even a little sense.
To liven things up a bit, here are a series of pictures of Arnold that demonstrate the sequence of my initial responses to the majority of your posts. There's just so much that makes me go, "what, did you really just say that," followed by a facepalm upon realizing that you did actually say what I thought you said, and finally laughing, as if I didn't laugh about it, I'd cry at the insanity of it all. It's all one big joke really.
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed
