Best fat burner?

VO2Maxima said:
Yeah, those are very different. For one, OxyMax isn't stim-free. Assass1nate is stim-free, and also acts as a GDA. You could actually stack that with OxyMax (or another stimmed burner) if you wanted, but obviously that stack would include stims.
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Ah my mistake was reading there website and not the ingredients label, wish they did full transparent label for OxyMax..

Problem is I got caffeine in pre workout and enjoy my morning expressos, train in evening so thinkong to much caffeine per day..

Huum just to many fat burners out there, becoming abit overloaded with info..
 
00A said:
This forum loves pushing SNS products...
This is hardly a fat burner, you can have enough caffeine in coffee and pre workout, tablets just increass ability not to sleep.
And yohimbine side effects are not for everyone
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I'm late to this, but what exactly do you think majority of fat burners are? Look at the more popular ones and you see a recurring theme. Caffeine and yohimbine.

Why? Because yohimbine actually has human backed data showing fat loss. Alot of other popular ingredients don't, and rely on in vitro or rodent studies :P

So how exactly is yohimbine not a fat burner if the data also supports it? ;)
 
00A said:
This forum loves pushing SNS products...
This is hardly a fat burner, you can have enough caffeine in coffee and pre workout, tablets just increass ability not to sleep.
And yohimbine side effects are not for everyone
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Bc they work? Try our Alpha-yohimbe product which should relive some of those ychl sides.

Hardly fatburners? Tell that to my serratus....1 scoop SNS focus XT +10-15mg SNS yohimbe HCL before fasted cardio every morning.
 
If it's not too late get in on the RXS Radiate Sale. Stuff is legit for appetite suppression and thermo effect. though I haven't tried any of the newer stuff in the last year in a half.
 
Distilled Water said:
Bc they work? Try our Alpha-yohimbe product which should relive some of those ychl sides.

Hardly fatburners? Tell that to my serratus....1 scoop SNS focus XT +10-15mg SNS yohimbe HCL before fasted cardio every morning.
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you're the man!!!
 
Dosage of alpha-y vs yhcl? I can tolerate 10-15mg, any thoughts on alpha? Comparable results?
 
O yeah got some of this:
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Hoping to crush the appetite a little bit more, get down to 10%bf and save some money.

I do have some BloodShr3d left and a bottle of Radiate on the way.
 
Shreddabull Untamed from AD is getting some pretty great testimonials. Everyone I have sampled it out to has gone ahead and bought some immediately. Mental focus/energy is amazing and makes you sweat bullets. I got addicted real quick, had to go cold turkey so I can save it for last 6-8wks of prep when I really need that boost.
 
IFBBBradRowe said:
Shreddabull Untamed from AD is getting some pretty great testimonials. Everyone I have sampled it out to has gone ahead and bought some immediately. Mental focus/energy is amazing and makes you sweat bullets. I got addicted real quick, had to go cold turkey so I can save it for last 6-8wks of prep when I really need that boost.
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Guggulsterones, "bovine thyroid" and "yohimbe-hydrochloride" sounds legit son
 
mase1 said:
OG eca, miss those days! Bronkaid is good but not like the old ma huang fun.
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That's because the Ma Huang Alkaloids had a lot more than Ephedrine in there :D But I'm pretty sure most of the studies used Rx E-HCL, so it works fine too.. but agree that full spectrum Sinica alkaloids were the Bee's knees :D

Great learning resource: Invalid Link Removed
 
The_Old_Guy said:
That's because the Ma Huang Alkaloids had a lot more than Ephedrine in there :D But I'm pretty sure most of the studies used Rx E-HCL, so it works fine too.. but agree that full spectrum Sinica alkaloids were the Bee's knees :D

Great learning resource: Invalid Link Removed
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I remembered the study you posted, so when I ran out of bronkaid I switched and got Primatene this time...the plus is I feel a small increase in stim effect-bronkaid had practically lost stim effect for me...the downside-double the dose of bronkaid.

60 bronkaid is around $15
60 Primatene is around $10....this makes the Primatene slightly more expensive, but it seems to be slightly more effective.
 
Juicedeez utz said:
Clen/t3 or if you like taking risks, DNP, up to 1lb fat loss a day haha
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I would not mind something stronger then the EC stack, but even that gets me worried about stroke. I ordered Clen once, but ended up canceling my order, do to other reviews. The magic D also worries me, although I don't ever recall seeing an article showing it's dangerous in recommended dosages. The deaths I heard about, were related to way over dosing it.

I'll run the EC for a few weeks and see if I see the results I want.
 
I'd say the effects of clen are stronger but the sides can be the same. Shakes, anxiety, sweating, inability to concentrate, raised bp ect. I was joking about dnp, that's for people who know what they're doing only. Loads of people worry about the sides to the hearty from clen too but from what I've read it's only from high dosed long term use (months at a time). But yeah start with EC, you won't have a stroke haha just take it easy to see how it makes you feel, always start low then if you don't like it you can just stop and it'll last a couple of hours rather than taking a huge dose like some and think you're gonna die haha
 
Are you supposed to avoid HIT while taking the EC stack? I read it's not a great idea to get the heart rate going to high. Why is that?
 
f4iguy said:
Are you supposed to avoid HIT while taking the EC stack? I read it's not a great idea to get the heart rate going to high. Why is that?
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You should always own, and use a Blood Pressure Monitor when taking stimulants. Start low and ramp up. That said, you "burn" way more fat in the other 23 hours of the day, than the 1 hour doing whatever training you do - so take it at other times - half life is only 4 hours. While Ephedrine *does* alter substrate utilization (fat preferential), the main benefits come from increased REE/RMR and appetite supresssion. This is why they usually recco 25mg, 3x/day, every 4 hours (if your blood pressure/pulse rate testing shows you can handle that).
 
Cogy said:
The_Old_Guy

What are your thoughts on

Fasted : Yohimbine + EC
Pre wo: Yohimbine
Mid-day : EC

Or

3 times Eph 25mg a day
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Anybody who has actually done research on these supplements almost always advises against combining yohimbine HCL with EC. At a minimum, take yohimbine + caffeine fasted in the morning, and then wait four hours before taking your first EC dosage.

Additionally, taking yohimbine pre workout really has no benefit unless your workout is fasted, and consists solely of cardio.

Either take EC 3x per day and wait to take yohibimbine until you are cycling off of the EC, or
Take YC in the morning, followed by 2 doses of EC later in the day.
 
The_Old_Guy said:
You should always own, and use a Blood Pressure Monitor when taking stimulants. Start low and ramp up. That said, you "burn" way more fat in the other 23 hours of the day, than the 1 hour doing whatever training you do - so take it at other times - half life is only 4 hours. While Ephedrine *does* alter substrate utilization (fat preferential), the main benefits come from increased REE/RMR and appetite supresssion. This is why they usually recco 25mg, 3x/day, every 4 hours (if your blood pressure/pulse rate testing shows you can handle that).
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What kind of increases are we talking here?
 
Per examine:

Metabolic rate, thermogenesis, and oxygen consumption are all reliably increased with ephedrine supplementation. The increase is greater with caffeine or other xanthine compounds, is greater in obese persons, and shows most practical significance during periods of caloric restriction. Estimates are around 5-12% increases in metabolic rate.
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NoAddedHmones said:
Yep, in other words, insignificant in the grand scheme of things.
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I wouldn't go that far..... insofar as everything else is in check, burning an extra 100-200 calories a day at rest combined with appetite suppression and anti-catabolic properties results in quicker fat/weight loss no matter how you look at it.
 
NoAddedHmones said:
Yep, in other words, insignificant in the grand scheme of things.
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P.brow17 said:
I wouldn't go that far..... insofar as everything else is in check, burning an extra 100-200 calories a day at rest combined with appetite suppression and anti-catabolic properties results in quicker fat/weight loss no matter how you look at it.
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Average that out at burning an extra 150kcals per day ,and over a week that's an extra 1,050kcals burnt off at rest. Add that to a usual 500kcal per day deficit and you're at 4,550kcals less per week, that's not even taking the calories lost through day to day activity and training into account.
 
danielmoo said:
What amounts are you thinking for each?
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Yohimbine as in Norcodrene.
Two caps a day and EPH 3x25mg

P.brow17 said:
Anybody who has actually done research on these supplements almost always advises against combining yohimbine HCL with EC. At a minimum, take yohimbine + caffeine fasted in the morning, and then wait four hours before taking your first EC dosage.

Additionally, taking yohimbine pre workout really has no benefit unless your workout is fasted, and consists solely of cardio.

Either take EC 3x per day and wait to take yohibimbine until you are cycling off of the EC, or
Take YC in the morning, followed by 2 doses of EC later in the day.
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I do workout fasted in the morning and in the evening my last meal is 3,5 hours before workout.
 
Cogy said:
Yohimbine as in Norcodrene.
Two caps a day and EPH 3x25mg



I do workout fasted in the morning and in the evening my last meal is 3,5 hours before workout.
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But as I said, in order for it to be effective in mobilizing fat, it needs to be taken immediately before extended amounts of cardio. Just taking it before a lift is a waste of money, especially when there are better things you could be taking to aid in muscle growth.

I'd say go with the single dose with cardio first thing in the morning with caffeine, and then space out a couple EC doses throughout the after that, starting 4 hours after your cardio atleast. Take an EC dose before your evening lift, possibly substituting the caffeine for a pre-workout.
 
Slims said:
Average that out at burning an extra 150kcals per day ,and over a week that's an extra 1,050kcals burnt off at rest. Add that to a usual 500kcal per day deficit and you're at 4,550kcals less per week, that's not even taking the calories lost through day to day activity and training into account.
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You seem to be misinterpreting what i said, ephedrine/caffeine stack is no doubt effective, as a number of you have mentioned. Im just saying the increase in RMR is an insignificant factor, so over a four week period, in a perfect world you will burn roughly (using your average figure) a little more than 400g fat.
 
NoAddedHmones said:
You seem to be misinterpreting what i said, ephedrine/caffeine stack is no doubt effective, as a number of you have mentioned. Im just saying the increase in RMR is an insignificant factor, so over a four week period, in a perfect world you will burn roughly (using your average figure) a little more than 400g fat.
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Maybe there is a misinterpretation because you aren't providing support to your claim...

How exactly is the increase in RMR an insignificant factor....
 
P.brow17 said:
Maybe there is a misinterpretation because you aren't providing support to your claim...

How exactly is the increase in RMR an insignificant factor....
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Mate you answered it yourself in your post. Okay lets say an optimistic 100 cals extra a day RMR increase (questionable how much this actually is given RMR decreases with dieting) but the appetite suppression (calorie deficit compliance) and its effects on TEA and NEAT expenditures are clearly way more significant (given both usually decrease when dieting).
 
150kcal increase in RMR is an incorrect estimate.

3 doses @ ~ 8.5% RMR increase would be less than 90 calories for a 200lb male @ 12% BF
 
NoAddedHmones said:
Mate you answered it yourself in your post. Okay lets say an optimistic 100 cals extra a day RMR increase (questionable how much this actually is given RMR decreases with dieting) but the appetite suppression (calorie deficit compliance) and its effects on TEA and NEAT expenditures are clearly way more significant (given both usually decrease when dieting).
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I answered no such thing. To say that one thing is "insignificant" because other things are "more significant" doesn't follow logically. The RMR increase associated with an EC stack alone is significantly beneficial to weight loss, especially when compared to the actual effectiveness of other supposed weight loss aids
 
P.brow17 said:
I answered no such thing. To say that one thing is "insignificant" because other things are "more significant" doesn't follow logically. The RMR increase associated with an EC stack alone is significantly beneficial to weight loss, especially when compared to the actual effectiveness of other supposed weight loss aids
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Cool
 
NoAddedHmones said:
What kind of increases are we talking here?
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Suppversity has all the data - IIRC it was between somewhere around 5, 7, ?% - don't think it got up to 10, but could be wrong. Search for Cold Thermogenesis too, there was some data in that area too, with ice water baths and Ecklonia Kava.

Edit: From 2012. And yeah, it's not going to DNP melt you, and it's other actions are better than it's raising of energy expenditure - but it's still better than anything in a bottle now, LOL. Looks like about 140kcal/day in this one (injected though). x20 weeks though - if you stick to the diet...

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Looks like these two will tell you exactly what the increase is?

Astrup A, Bülow J, Madsen J, Christensen NJ. Contribution of BAT and skeletal muscle to thermogenesis induced by ephedrine in man. Am J Physiol. 1985 May;248(5 Pt 1):E507-15.

Astrup A, Toubro S, Christensen NJ, Quaade F. Pharmacology of thermogenic drugs. Am J Clin Nutr. 1992 Jan;55(1 Suppl):246S-248S.
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