1 Andro/Epiandro Cycle Log W/ Pics! Please Critique.

Subbed.
 
Day 19. Feeling good! First couple weeks i kept calories around maintenance, now that week 3 is approaching im going to slowly start increasing calories moderately to fully take advantage of being on cycle and make most gains possible while hopefully staying lean or possibly even losing fat at the same time! Is that common with 1 4 epi andro? To lose fat and gain muscle at the same time or better to just focus on gaining as much muscle as possible

Im training traps and lateral delts 2x a week and everything else once a week as im really trying to blow up my traps peak and widen my delts from the front as i want to compete in mens physique in the near future
 
yotreeman said:
All the andros seem to start kicking for me on week 2 or 3, with everything in full gear by 3-4.
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I'm 7 days in on the same andro cycle zach is running and I'm up 3-4lbs.

Zach yes it is likely to gain muscle while dropping body fat while on this cycle. Personally I'm going to clean bulk through my cycle, pct and a few months after and then eventually cut some carbs/calories out and do a slow cut.

What is your weight gain up to this point?
 
JahCure said:
What is your weight gain up to this point?
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About 5 lbs up so far. I dont eat same amount of calories everyday. Carb cycling works best for me. Planned around my big lift days, like this morning im about to go kill chest right now for about 1.5 hours and i carb loaded last night for todays workouts so i probably weigh 8 lbs heavier this morning than my starting weight just because of all the water and food in me. Later this evening will be a 2 hour leg session... Gotta love two-a-days!!
 
Chest workout was awesome. Legs later today ready to kill it again. But question why is the cycle causing the most insane night sweats every night?! Im usually not a night sweater but for some reason i always wake up drenched and it was so bad last night my GF woke me up asked if i was okay.....
 
I think that's the epiandro. I remember when I ran atleast 1andro/epiandro before I sweat more in and out of the gym
 
Leg day was amazing!! Two new PR's and feeling pretty aggressive. Day 20 today. Went heavy on straight leg deads for hammys and glutes (185) and 10th rep of second set kinda pulled my left hammy now its killing me. Any tips to heal it fast?
 
Gratz on the PRs! As for the hammy how bad is it? Might just need rest. Would you say the andros have kicked in
 
ZachH said:
Leg day was amazing!! Two new PR's and feeling pretty aggressive. Day 20 today. Went heavy on straight leg deads for hammys and glutes (185) and 10th rep of second set kinda pulled my left hammy now its killing me. Any tips to heal it fast?
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Dig and roll it out hard, make it hurt.
 
Thanks guys its feeling better today. I would say the andros have definitely started to show their strength!! Excited for the next week of lifts as this should be the first week they are kicked in. Increasing calories still, trying not to add too much fat though. Will update throughout the week
 
Insane back workout just now! Feeling strong, looking full and vascularity has increased. However, i must be holding some water weight from last nights burritos because i was up 13 lbs today lol weighed in at 202 today from 194 about 4 or 5 days ago. Im guessing it will taper back down to 197 or 196 once i have a low carb day. But still, today was first day i had a guy at my gym walk up to me and basically ask what i was on lol. That felt nice
 
ZachH said:
Insane back workout just now! Feeling strong, looking full and vascularity has increased. However, i must be holding some water weight from last nights burritos because i was up 13 lbs today lol weighed in at 202 today from 194 about 4 or 5 days ago. Im guessing it will taper back down to 197 or 196 once i have a low carb day. But still, today was first day i had a guy at my gym walk up to me and basically ask what i was on lol. That felt nice
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Damn! 13 lbs is huge bro, especially if your looking vascular also. Keep killing those workouts
 
MrManlet said:
Have you noticed any joint dryness? Or do u have joint support and is it working
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No joint problems for me... And im taking XGELS pre workout as well. Im also taking SNS joint support XT plus cissus and ultra fish oil (all more than 6 hours apart from my xgels serving)
 
Your cycle itself is solid, but there are concerns for overkill on your blood pressure. You're stacking 2 PH's, and taking creatine and caffeine. This is not a good combination and can strain your kidneys. Although creatine does not have a direct effect on vascular health, it still causes water retention which promotes vascular pressure from interstitial spaces, thus raising diastolic pressure of the heart and ultimately increasing renal perfusion pressure. Besides, both caffeine and creatine taken together is counterintuitive. Creatine causes hypotonicity (swelling) of cells whereas caffeine causes crenation (shrinkage) due to it's diuretic properties. Creatine requires water to facilitate cell volumization, and caffeine draws water out of cells. This means dehydration, cramps and possible acute renal failure, especially when stacked with PHs. If I were you, I would do the caffeine post cycle during a cutting phase. That way you can bulk up pretty well from the nitrogen buildup and RBC increase from PHs and the cell expansion from creatine. Although the creatine will cause water retention, just keep in mind that the edema is highly anabolic yet it's temporary and will flush out once you use caffeine on your cut phase. The striated look to your muscles will be much better once you cut on caffeine. Creatine works very well with PHs, so I would allow the two to create a synergistic/summated effect, which would greatly boosts results than caffeine and creatine together. However, if you just want to use it all together for whatever reason then, like I said, the only concern would be your BP and kidneys. It is very easy to go into acute renal failure from acutely elevated BP. And no, PHs don't have to be methylated to do this. If you absolutely must take them all together then you definitely want to be on standardized Hawthorne Berry to control your BP on cycle.
 
Bamberrydude said:
Your cycle itself is solid, but there are concerns for overkill on your blood pressure. You're stacking 2 PH's, and taking creatine and caffeine. This is not a good combination and can strain your kidneys. Although creatine does not have a direct effect on vascular health, it still causes water retention which promotes vascular pressure from interstitial spaces, thus raising diastolic pressure of the heart and ultimately increasing renal perfusion pressure. Besides, both caffeine and creatine taken together is counterintuitive. Creatine causes hypotonicity (swelling) of cells whereas caffeine causes crenation (shrinkage) due to it's diuretic properties. Creatine requires water to facilitate cell volumization, and caffeine draws water out of cells. This means dehydration, cramps and possible acute renal failure, especially when stacked with PHs. If I were you, I would do the caffeine post cycle during a cutting phase. That way you can bulk up pretty well from the nitrogen buildup and RBC increase from PHs and the cell expansion from creatine. Although the creatine will cause water retention, just keep in mind that the edema is highly anabolic yet it's temporary and will flush out once you use caffeine on your cut phase. The striated look to your muscles will be much better once you cut on caffeine. Creatine works very well with PHs, so I would allow the two to create a synergistic/summated effect, which would greatly boosts results than caffeine and creatine together. However, if you just want to use it all together for whatever reason then, like I said, the only concern would be your BP and kidneys. It is very easy to go into acute renal failure from acutely elevated BP. And no, PHs don't have to be methylated to do this. If you absolutely must take them all together then you definitely want to be on standardized Hawthorne Berry to control your BP on cycle.
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Thanks man. Im taking primeval labs mega cycle support to help with sides such as BP, and i have an omron at home blood pressure monitor to make sure i keep that in check.

And there is additional hawthorne berry in my animal pak multi powder.
 
Oh, so you're already taking everything? I wonder why the only post showing is your inquiry about using the supps. Hey keep us posted on your results.
 
Bamberrydude said:
Oh, so you're already taking everything? I wonder why the only post showing is your inquiry about using the supps. Hey keep us posted on your results.
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Yessir! Im on day 22 today. BP has raised some, but not to dangerous levels. Strength and muscle fullness and vascularity and weight have all increased significantly already!
 
Does anyone think if I'm on intuniv (off label for ADHD, however FDA approved for blood pressure) that might suffice for bp on this cycle?
 
Or should I get strictly a Hawthorne berry product, as I'm trying to avoid cycle supports with saw palmetto in it

Sorry for constantly posting in your thread Zach but I'm just asking questions in this thread and my own log if you don't mind
 
MrManlet said:
Or should I get strictly a Hawthorne berry product, as I'm trying to avoid cycle supports with saw palmetto in it

Sorry for constantly posting in your thread Zach but I'm just asking questions in this thread and my own log if you don't mind
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Its been proven saw palmetto does not affect the DHT from epiandro. The science is above my head but after a lot of reading thats the conclusion i got to.
 
Yeah, I think the intuniv should be okay. It relaxes blood vessels by stimulating alpha receptors, so this should improve BP. For an extra few dollars you can add a natural diuretic like corn silk or dandelion root to ensure that BP stays under control and to flush out any excess water weight. I personally used these two with great success. There would be no adverse reactions with the intuniv because the herbs have different mechanisms of action than the med. However, the hawthorn berry and intuniv may cause issues due to both having vessel relaxing properties--that is if you decide to use them both.
 
Can u give me a good product with corn silk or dandelion root? Or perhaps should I buy it straight from the pharmacy
 
Give you a good product with corn silk or dandelion root? Lol...I'm not sure I follow you. Are you saying you want other herbs to take with dandelion and corn silk? Or are you asking for brand names? I personally get vitamin shoppe brand. They are inexpensive. You don't have to worry about standardization, as the phytochemicals/nutrients are naturally occurring in most parts of the herbs.

Also dandelion root and corn silk are over the counter herbs. They aren't sold at the pharmacy.
 
Most pharmacies sell otc products that's what I was referring too. And I was asking if there's a product that contain both instead of buying individual extracts
 
I see. I know at Walmart, next to the pharmacy area, there are usually water pills that contain a wide range of diuretic herbs in them. It will definitely have dandelion, and corn silk in it, but there will be other herbs like hydrangea, uva ursi and juniper in it too. I've never seen only dandelion and corn silk together.
 
Do u think water weight is a concern on this cycle tho? If u do, I'll deff add a diuretic to help see them cuts
 
Water weight should not be a concern per se, but you never know. As a people, although we all share very similar metabolisms, we still have variant metabolic pathways. I use to take non-estrogenic/non-DHT prohormones all the time and still got puffy nips and a thinning hairline. This is the natural consequence of elevated hormones, which for many folks includes a rise in blood pressure. To be on the safe side, personally, I would take one of the diuretics to prevent any hormone induced edema. Trust me, I've had a long and hard battle with CKD from taking "mild" prohormones that jacked up my BP--and I used my OCT and PCT properly. The cycle that killed my kidneys was a 6wk prohormone cycle where my BP was ranging from 140/90 to 150/86, which is not even serious. This was on Hawthorne Berry, coq10 and fish oil. While the liver has the ability to regenerate very easy, the kidneys DO NOT. They fail easily and it becomes chronic within a couple of weeks! I'm sure you know that the body is very delicate. All I'm saying is take your preventative measures seriously. Just buy a $5 bottle of corn silk and/or dandelion and have it ready just in case one day you check your BP and it's 170/90 even though you're on intuniv. It may be some kind idiopathic-metabolic enigma you're unaware of.

Sorry for the long description. I just care too much I guess...Lol. I would hate to see any if you guys go down the path I have.
 
Thank you for you concern. I'm sorry to hear you had such a bad experience with a prohormone. What are the long lasting consequences of that? I will definitely take all preventative measures that I can. My body seems to handle designer steroids/prohormones pretty well as I have multiple dmz/msten cycles under my belt. The only side effect I seem to get is puffy nips without the preventative measures needed to avoid it. This is ofc with cycle support/tudca for the harsher compounds
 
Well, because the kidneys act as filters, once they are damaged they can no longer filter metabolic substances, especially electrolytes, protein and creatinine (go figure, right!?). With that said, there are major issues with metabolic acidosis due to toxic buildup of nutrients and their waste. This can cause delirium, stinging sensations, confusion, muscle spasms, fatigue, etc. Because there are issues with processing electrolytes, that means issues with staying hydrated, heart murmurs/PVCs, getting rid of edema and performing muscle contractions.

Because protein gives off nitrogenous waste then there are issues with staying vascular. Because protein consumption must remain low to stave off nitrogen accumulation, fighting off muscle atrophy becomes a major problem. All of this translates to requiring hemodialysis to filter out waste that your kidneys can't filter. To keep metabolic waste down I don't eat bananas and many other fruits, meat, nuts/seeds, animal based foods (acidic/waste), etc--Yes, my diet is severely restricted.

However, I've learned to manage pretty well. Lucky for me, I've been a Personal Trainer, and Sports Nutritionist for 15 years, and a Medic for 3.5 years, which means I can manipulate my biochem as I please, but it's nerve wrecking and sometimes psychologically taxing. The good part is that I don't do dialysis. Besides the kidneys, sweating from exercise is your body's natural dialysis, so aerobic training is a must. Omitting toxic foods, drinking lots of water, maintaining acid-base balance, eating organic, and taking cell preserving supps has saved my life! That said, I still do "recreational" bodybuilding, but my body is no longer the same internally. I can't complain though because I still look great ��

You got anymore questions about your training, diet or whatever then don't hesitate to ask.
 
MrManlet said:
Any updates Zach?
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Yes been meaning to post!! Gains are amazing and only on day 28!! Havent taken a rest day in 9 days and im killing it at least 2 hours a day. Size, strength, pumps, vascularity, fullness and aggression all increased dramatically so far. Now people are really starting to notice and I'm crushing new PR's almost every workout.

No negative sides either and BP still 138/68 when i checked it earlier today.

Been running OL ep1c unleashed, OL tr1umph, and X gels along with my 1 4 epi and all 3 of those i obviously dose pre workout. So that could have something to do with it as well. Stoked for the next 32 days!

Weight wise im up about 12-13 LBS in 28 days, probably a lot water but still have visible abs.

Currently sitting at about 200 LBS 5'11"
 
Freakin hugeeee Brody! Nice going man. I know this is your first cycle, but do you have that "I'm on somethin" feel through out the day? like aggression and a feeling of well being? That's what I'm looking forward to with the gainz
 
MrManlet said:
Freakin hugeeee Brody! Nice going man. I know this is your first cycle, but do you have that "I'm on somethin" feel through out the day? like aggression and a feeling of well being? That's what I'm looking forward to with the gainz
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Yeah especially after i dose the epiandro. I can certainly feel it. Currently running it at 1000mg a day and libido is still STRONG most days lol had 2 different sessions with the GF yesterday and was hard as a rock the whole time which is surprising but im loving it. Also still got morning wood almost daily.
 
I can't wait for my epiandro to kick in let alone my 1 andro. Currently on day 12, think it'll hit me any day now?
 
MrManlet said:
I can't wait for my epiandro to kick in let alone my 1 andro. Currently on day 12, think it'll hit me any day now?
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Id say around the 3 week mark i really started to notice the effects. Days 21-28 where pretty much the best lifts ive ever had.
 
Oh yeah forgot to mention only negative side is what i think to be bad back pumps? Never experienced it before i thought i just must have overworked my lower back but then i remembered i read about a side affect called back pumps.. Basically feels like my lower/middle back is super "tight" and its annoying but definitely not terrible enough to say it isnt tolerable
 
This same discussion is going on in another log but I'll ask the same question. Are you taking a preworkout?
 
elo76 said:
This same discussion is going on in another log but I'll ask the same question. Are you taking a preworkout?
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I'm not as far along as Zach, but I'm on the same cycle (plus androsterone) and have continued taking my preworkout. So far, 12ish mg of cialis every other day has my BP perfect
 
elo76 said:
This same discussion is going on in another log but I'll ask the same question. Are you taking a preworkout?
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Yes pre workout why? You mean for taurine purposes for back pumps or because of blood pressure precautions
 
Taurine will do that back pump up real good. I'm ordered some the other day as that's the only side effect I'm getting is those tight back pumps. Haven't felt much of anything else yet besides some placebo effects the first week
 
ZachH said:
Yes pre workout why? You mean for taurine purposes for back pumps or because of blood pressure precautions
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If you are experiencing back pumps and are using a "pump" product, from my experience, only makes it way worse. The pump ingredients are pumping your back up too. What I would do is drop the PWO and either find one without the pump (arginine etc) additives or just pop some caffiene with 5g of taurine. Once I dropped the pump stuff. I do not even need the taurine. Before this I would have to lay on the floor between sets or give up squats and deads. Hell...even leg press was terrible before I made this change. Hope this helps man.
 
elo76 said:
If you are experiencing back pumps and are using a "pump" product, from my experience, only makes it way worse. The pump ingredients are pumping your back up too. What I would do is drop the PWO and either find one without the pump (arginine etc) additives or just pop some caffiene with 5g of taurine. Once I dropped the pump stuff. I do not even need the taurine. Before this I would have to lay on the floor between sets or give up squats and deads. Hell...even leg press was terrible before I made this change. Hope this helps man.
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Definitely helps brother. I know i have some products at home with decent amount of taurine in it. I guess on leg day from now on (today is leg day!) ill be using 1 1/2 scoops SNS Focus XT + double scoop of one of my highest taurine dosed supps + 20mg noopept and see if that helps my squats. Because my lower back was killing me last week for squats and never put 2 and 2 together to realize what was going on

Does that mean i should not take X gels on leg day or deadlift day? That would kinda suck if i had to stop taking them just for those days as this is my first ever x gel run
 
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