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Anyone here have optimal (>5-700 ng/dl) test levels after multiple steroid cycles?

Nolvadex is mamofen - 10 & 20 mg versions and expire Nov 2017 and July 17 and have been stored in cool dark environment

Clomid is Siphene-100, Expiry Sep 2016

and Fertomid 50 Expiry Aug 2016

and Fertomid 25 Expiry Nov 2016,

Clomid was 3-6 months passed expiry when used, would this cause any problems, it was stored properly and i thought the dates were just general guides not actual end of life of product.
 
Also Tr3st i find was very estrogenic and prevented me from using it more than 7-10 days, it required for me to use Arimadex at a dose of 1mg for around 30-35 days to control estro.
 
Also Tr3st i find was very estrogenic and prevented me from using it more than 7-10 days, it required for me to use Arimadex at a dose of 1mg for around 30-35 days to control estro.
By chance did you get your estrogen checked?? As it could be high estrogen.
 
Cycle was mix of Test Tren, and Tr3st, i have not been sick and have felt fine gym wise, just low on sex drive and function is only noticeable effects and depression and poor mood / brain fog.

I have seen guys take 5 to 6 months to recover while using prescription grade serms and ai after coming off of tren and trest.
 
This might not work the same for you, and there was a thread discussing why my BW had these results; TT 1170, FT 87 on 6-25 scale, E2 was the exact lowest number in norm 14, LH in low 20's think but just higher than norm, SBHG, 6.5 on 8-20 scale but here is my protocol:

clomid 12.5 e3d, Nettle extract 50:1 2g ed, (nettle has low AI and also lowers SHBG) That's all hormonal stuff. I would like another person to have similar positive results so it can be confirmed as a good mix so I'll just throw out what else I took Adam Munlti vite ed, D-3 50,000iu 2x week, guarana 4g ed, Liver detox 2 caps ed, Omega 3, Tramadol, Baclofen, Effexor,

I will do this as a prepcycle for a month before next cycle. NAC might think of a mathematical way to compare this to Natty training so I might actually do it for longer. It's such an interesting topic that I'm up for experimenting to find out more.

Do you know if tramadol has affected your test levels? I gave up tramadol after reading about opiates lowering test levels to a large degree. I have low test as it is so for me everything I can do to help it go up a little helps a lot.
 
Do you know if tramadol has affected your test levels? I gave up tramadol after reading about opiates lowering test levels to a large degree. I have low test as it is so for me everything I can do to help it go up a little helps a lot.

Interesting but ive yet to see a decrease in T levels and ive been using tramadol for over 1 year. I suppose it could effect everyone different.

One thing ive noticed is that on par with statistics, my levels since age 30 have lowered nearly the exact same per % per year...im 42 now.

I calculated my percentage of lowering since 30 and 42. Its very surprising that it has lowered almost the same year after year for 12 years never deviating more than 1-2 points. Its dropped exactly 32 points per year for 12 years +/- 1 to 2 points.

Edit: I meant it seems the tramadol hasn't caused mine to lower any faster its been a steady flow since age 30
 
Update: I decided to start TRT after getting moderate but not sufficient relief on clomid, along with the characteristic blurry vision and some emotionalism on clomid.

Found a really good TRT clinic in my area (PM me if interested in the name as they have clinics in several states), and they exceeded my expectations today at my first visit. I brought in labs showing my untreated test levels at 390/370 over a period of several years and the practitioner agreed it was very low for my age and we started on Test Cyp 150mg/week and HCG 1x/week, and will adjust if necessary based on labs and how I feel.

Overall I was really pleased. The staff was friendly and knowledgeable, I was treated with respect, the labs they order are thorough, and they also have extras like free vitamin B12 shots and cheap cialis if needed. Great men's clinic.
 
Interesting but ive yet to see a decrease in T levels and ive been using tramadol for over 1 year. I suppose it could effect everyone different.

One thing ive noticed is that on par with statistics, my levels since age 30 have lowered nearly the exact same per % per year...im 42 now.

I calculated my percentage of lowering since 30 and 42. Its very surprising that it has lowered almost the same year after year for 12 years never deviating more than 1-2 points. Its dropped exactly 32 points per year for 12 years +/- 1 to 2 points.

Edit: I meant it seems the tramadol hasn't caused mine to lower any faster its been a steady flow since age 30

Thanks for your response. Very interesting. I'm not saying that tramadol has affected my test levels as without continuous bloodwork it's hard to tell. I gave it up anyway to see if that and a load of other things I have changed will make a difference.
 
Update: I decided to start TRT after getting moderate but not sufficient relief on clomid, along with the characteristic blurry vision and some emotionalism on clomid.

Found a really good TRT clinic in my area (PM me if interested in the name as they have clinics in several states), and they exceeded my expectations today at my first visit. I brought in labs showing my untreated test levels at 390/370 over a period of several years and the practitioner agreed it was pretty low for my age and we started on Test Cyp 150mg/week and HCG 1x/week, and will adjust if necessary based on labs and how I feel.

Overall I was really pleased. The staff was friendly and knowledgeable, I was treated with respect, the labs they order are thorough, and they also have extras like free vitamin B12 and cheap cialis if needed. Great men's clinic.

great news, keep us posted on how you feel in next few weeks, months.
 
Just had my blood work done, 4 months post cycle, after using Clomid and Nolva, 2 months OL k1ngsblood and 2 months OL Test1fy, and using BLR letrone, results were not good, i have been dieting for past 14 weeks, first 6 were keto during the PCT window to support test levels by having large amounts of saturated fats, also i have only had 3 re-feeds in past 14 weeks and they have only possibly gone over maintenance caloric levels by a max of 1000 calories and fat has been kept under 50 grams for each of them.

past 8 weeks have been PSMF, which has been harsh but has worked well and strength loss and overall muscle mass appears to be minimal which has been great considering my low caloric intake of around 1k calories per day for past 8 weeks. nearly 9th is finished this Sunday.

I have been feeling quite down lately and sex drive and libido have been shot as well as suffering from lack of morning wood and slightED, general disinterest in sex, the confusing part is my reading came back at 200.

200 from my understanding is low as **** and not good at all, so how come i have been able to maintain intensity in workouts and not appear to have lost mass amounts of muscle, this has me confused.

That's quite low, below the pretty conservative bare minimum of about 250-350, so you're clearly still suppressed. With my T levels I was having fatigue, ED, depression, anxiety, however I was able to still regain a fairly substantial amount of muscle (I am around 215 at caliper measured ~13% bodyfat) with low T... so it is possible even if you feel crappy otherwise. I also noticed I increasingly would skip the gym due to sleep issues and taking a long time to recover from workouts.

I also was trying a high sat fat diet prior to my 369 ng/dl (remember that is 12 years off cycle) and I don't think it made any difference.
 
Do you know if tramadol has affected your test levels? I gave up tramadol after reading about opiates lowering test levels to a large degree. I have low test as it is so for me everything I can do to help it go up a little helps a lot.

Well when I was on oxicodone for 3-4 months it did put my T levels in the 400's as you said long term opiates due suppress T. But Tramadol isn't an opiate or a secrotogoue it's similar and different. But I also don't take it ed maybe 4-6 pills a week.
 
Well when I was on oxicodone for 3-4 months it did put my T levels in the 400's as you said long term opiates due suppress T. But Tramadol isn't an opiate or a secrotogoue it's similar and different. But I also don't take it ed maybe 4-6 pills a week.

Ok thanks that's interesting. I was under the impression that tramadol had similar opiod effects as other opioid medications
 
Ok thanks that's interesting. I was under the impression that tramadol had similar opiod effects as other opioid medications

It specifically targets pain nerves and mimics how opiates work. Tramadol doesn't slow down all the neuro-chemical signals in the body like opiates do; that's why it doesn't make you constipated, bloating ect. But interesting enough if you take 15 tramadol at once it over saturates the system and acts like a high dose of oxy. Don't do this because it's #1 overdose in Ireland
 
Im thinking the same thing

Not sure how old you are but I wouldn't throw in the towel yet. Many lucky guys were able to come back from 2-3 continuous years of use. Not perfectly of course but I would rather have a decent natty T production even if you jump to TRT get natty up first otherwise might be FFL.

Nolvadex is mamofen - 10 & 20 mg versions and expire Nov 2017 and July 17 and have been stored in cool dark environment

Clomid is Siphene-100, Expiry Sep 2016

and Fertomid 50 Expiry Aug 2016

and Fertomid 25 Expiry Nov 2016,

Clomid was 3-6 months passed expiry when used, would this cause any problems, it was stored properly and i thought the dates were just general guides not actual end of life of product.
There is no way expiration has anything to do with it. Exp. dates are just for ideal effect. only liquid, microorganism, or branched chain based pharms go bad. Every tablet I have ever heard of if sealed air tight doesn't go bad even nitro heart pills have compounds to keep it from evaporating. I really would think of the waiting game. You can also chat with docs online, maybe possible to find endo, also there is the TRT doc on youtube that answers questions.
 
Not sure how old you are but I wouldn't throw in the towel yet. Many lucky guys were able to come back from 2-3 continuous years of use. Not perfectly of course but I would rather have a decent natty T production even if you jump to TRT get natty up first otherwise might be FFL.


There is no way expiration has anything to do with it. Exp. dates are just for ideal effect. only liquid, microorganism, or branched chain based pharms go bad. Every tablet I have ever heard of if sealed air tight doesn't go bad even nitro heart pills have compounds to keep it from evaporating. I really would think of the waiting game. You can also chat with docs online, maybe possible to find endo, also there is the TRT doc on youtube that answers questions.

25 years old, this is the reason i am so worried with a T level of 200, 4-5 months after cycle.
 
I have been only consuming around 1100 Kcals per day, 198g pro, 54g cho, 15.4g fat (6 g of which come from omega 3)

This is due to the protein sparing muscle fast i have been on which has been 9 weeks straight now, with only 3 refeeds in the full 9 weeks, how much do you feel the extreme dieting would contribute to the test levels being low.
 
Potentially, considerably Id imagine. Deficit aside, thats fuk all fats youre consuming.
 
Well when I was on oxicodone for 3-4 months it did put my T levels in the 400's as you said long term opiates due suppress T. But Tramadol isn't an opiate or a secrotogoue it's similar and different. But I also don't take it ed maybe 4-6 pills a week.
Tramadol is an opiate. hydrocodone is an opiod. Anything that works of these recoptors at all will negatively impact testosterone. That includes but not limited to kratom, tianeptine and way more. Naloxone(long Half-Life version naltrexone) with clomid is rumored to completely prevent shutdown. Now I do not believe that but I do think it would make pct WAY easier.
 
A 5-6 week halodrol run with clomid + naltrexone throughout is what I have playing in my mind. If HPTA suppression does not occur or is limited that would mean a test base may no longer be required for dry compounds. Still on the hunt for atleast one log with bloods in support of opioid modulators on cycle. So far nothing but anecdotal reports and none covering all bases (non 19nor compound + opioid modulator + serm) I guess i could be the first.
 
A 5-6 week halodrol run with clomid + naltrexone throughout is what I have playing in my mind. If HPTA suppression does not occur or is limited that would mean a test base may no longer be required for dry compounds. Still on the hunt for atleast one log with bloods in support of opioid modulators on cycle. So far nothing but anecdotal reports and none covering all bases (non 19nor compound + opioid modulator + serm) I guess i could be the first.
I am would see if you could get naloxone due to its longer half life.
 
Tramadol is an opiate hydrocodone is an opiod. Anything that works of these recoptors at all will negatively impact testosterone. That includes but not limited to kratom, tianeptine and way more. Naloxone(long Half-Life version naltrexone) with clomid is rumored to completely prevent shutdown. Now I do not believe that but I do think it would make pct WAY easier.

Just Google is Tramadol an opiate. Your obviously misinformed on how it works. There is a specific reason why opiates slow down T production and it has to do with extended use and how opiates slow a lot of neuro-chemical signalling the body to do what it's supposed to do. This is not just opiates as a blank statement. Some have little effect and others are far worse than others for example methadone is the worst for T production while hydrocodone doesn't effect it very much at all.
 
Just Google is Tramadol an opiate. Your obviously misinformed on how it works.
Yes tramadol is an opiate. This is a synthetic compound that is meant to mimic the actions of opiods. It does this by binding to the same recoptors! Now we know just because it binds to the same recoptors doesn't mean the action will be the same. Think Ambien binds to gaba recoptors but works nothing like gaba or gaba based drugs(benzos). So yes your explanation is correct. But how it works is wrong. Without a doubt tramadol binds to the opiod recoptors!
 
Yes tramadol is an opiate. This is a synthetic compound that is meant to mimic the actions of opiods. It does this by binding to the same recoptors! Now we know just because it binds to the same recoptors doesn't mean the action will be the same. Think Ambien binds to gaba recoptors but works nothing like gaba or gaba based drugs(benzos). So yes your explanation is correct. But how it works is wrong. Without a doubt tramadol binds to the opiod recoptors!

In the 1990s, a certain pharmaceutical drug was released and intended to offer those who suffered from serious injuries or conditions that involve chronic pain a means of relief. At the time, there was very little evidence to suggest that the drug should be the cause of any concern, which is why doctors and physicians began prescribing it to patients quite liberally. Unfortunately, we came to discover that the drug — OxyContin — could not only be abused, but had an exceptionally high addictive potential. This marked the beginning of what one might refer to as the OxyContin era, and although the past couple years have seen a small decline in the rate at which Americans are becoming addicted to prescription pain medications, the effects of the OxyContin and painkiller epidemics on society can still be readily seen today.

With a greater awareness of addictive and abuse potential, today’s healthcare providers have a number of different substances from which to choose when treating patients’ afflictions. Although it’s still relatively common for doctors and physicians to prescribe opiate painkillers to patients, there are a number of federal regulations in place as well as prescription drug monitoring programs in each state that help to ensure that these dangerous substances are kept out of the wrong hands. Additionally, in instances when some sort of pain medication is necessary, many physicians will first attempt to use an alternative to opiates, something that’s not a controlled and, therefore, dangerous substance with a high potential for abuse.

Tramadol is one such non-narcotic medication that’s often prescribed as an alternative to opiate painkillers; however, many have begun to assert that tramadol should actually be considered a narcotic and become a controlled substance. As such, the following will define tramadol — what it is and what it’s used to treat — and explain why it’s a dangerous substance.

What Exactly is Tramadol?
tramadol
Tramadol — which is sold under the more well-known brand name Ultram — is a medication that was first approved by the Food and Drug Administration to treat moderate to severe pain in 1995. Rather than being classified as a painkiller like oxycodone and other opiate drugs, tramadol is described as a “narcotic-like” pain reliever and was widely held to be safe with very little potential for respiratory depression. The drug works by affecting how the brain responds to or perceives pain, causing an increase in the production of neurotransmitters such as norepinephrine, serotonin, and also hormones such as endorphins; in effect, these are natural substances that work to alleviate feelings of pain. Alternately, the drug’s psychoactive properties have led to its occasional use as a mild antidepressant. However, in terms of its potency, it’s been said that tramadol is roughly equivalent to codeine in strength and a dose of tramadol is about ten percent of the strength of a same-sized dose of morphine.
 
In the 1990s, a certain pharmaceutical drug was released and intended to offer those who suffered from serious injuries or conditions that involve chronic pain a means of relief. At the time, there was very little evidence to suggest that the drug should be the cause of any concern, which is why doctors and physicians began prescribing it to patients quite liberally. Unfortunately, we came to discover that the drug — OxyContin — could not only be abused, but had an exceptionally high addictive potential. This marked the beginning of what one might refer to as the OxyContin era, and although the past couple years have seen a small decline in the rate at which Americans are becoming addicted to prescription pain medications, the effects of the OxyContin and painkiller epidemics on society can still be readily seen today.

With a greater awareness of addictive and abuse potential, today’s healthcare providers have a number of different substances from which to choose when treating patients’ afflictions. Although it’s still relatively common for doctors and physicians to prescribe opiate painkillers to patients, there are a number of federal regulations in place as well as prescription drug monitoring programs in each state that help to ensure that these dangerous substances are kept out of the wrong hands. Additionally, in instances when some sort of pain medication is necessary, many physicians will first attempt to use an alternative to opiates, something that’s not a controlled and, therefore, dangerous substance with a high potential for abuse.

Tramadol is one such non-narcotic medication that’s often prescribed as an alternative to opiate painkillers; however, many have begun to assert that tramadol should actually be considered a narcotic and become a controlled substance. As such, the following will define tramadol — what it is and what it’s used to treat — and explain why it’s a dangerous substance.

What Exactly is Tramadol?
tramadol
Tramadol — which is sold under the more well-known brand name Ultram — is a medication that was first approved by the Food and Drug Administration to treat moderate to severe pain in 1995. Rather than being classified as a painkiller like oxycodone and other opiate drugs, tramadol is described as a “narcotic-like” pain reliever and was widely held to be safe with very little potential for respiratory depression. The drug works by affecting how the brain responds to or perceives pain, causing an increase in the production of neurotransmitters such as norepinephrine, serotonin, and also hormones such as endorphins; in effect, these are natural substances that work to alleviate feelings of pain. Alternately, the drug’s psychoactive properties have led to its occasional use as a mild antidepressant. However, in terms of its potency, it’s been said that tramadol is roughly equivalent to codeine in strength and a dose of tramadol is about ten percent of the strength of a same-sized dose of morphine.
I may I flipped the term. Tramadol is an opiod and an opiate
 
Opiate is a term classically used in pharmacology to mean a drug derived from opium. Opioid, a more modern term, is used to designate all substances, both natural and synthetic, that bind to opioid receptors. Not an opiate or opioid. It's mode of effect is not the same.
 
It doesn't even matter about splitting hairs on definition because it doesn't have a negative effect on T production. And that was the Q
 
It doesn't even matter about splitting hairs on definition because it doesn't have a negative effect on T production. And that was the Q
It may or may not lower testosterone but it has the potential to as IT DOES bind to the receptors. As I said it being g a different chemical it may not lower test
 
It may or may not lower testosterone but it has the potential to as IT DOES bind to the receptors. As I said it being g a different chemical it may not lower test
Do you know why opiates lower T production? It is not because it binds to the opiate receptor
 
Please explain to me how it does then.

You can just search "why methadone lowers Test" and It will explain why. It's not as if the opiate receptor is an off button for Test.
Here is more info on why tramadol is not considered a narcotic
(+/-)-Tramadol is a synthetic 4-phenyl-piperidine analogue of codeine. It is a central analgesic with a low affinity for opioid receptors. Its selectivity for mu receptors has recently been demonstrated, and the M1 metabolite of tramadol, produced by liver O-demethylation, shows a higher affinity for opioid receptors than the parent drug. The rate of production of this M1 derivative (O-demethyl tramadol), is influenced by a polymorphic isoenzyme of the debrisoquine-type, cytochrome P450 2D6 (CYP2D6). Nevertheless, this affinity for mu receptors of the CNS remains low, being 6000 times lower than that of morphine. Moreover, and in contrast to other opioids, the analgesic action of tramadol is only partially inhibited by the opioid antagonist naloxone, which suggests the existence of another mechanism of action. This was demonstrated by the discovery of a monoaminergic activity that inhibits noradrenaline (norepinephrine) and serotonin (5-hydroxytryptamine; 5-HT) reuptake, making a significant contribution to the analgesic action by blocking nociceptive impulses at the spinal level. (+/-)-Tramadol is a racemic mixture of 2 enantiomers, each one displaying differing affinities for various receptors. (+/-)-Tramadol is a selective agonist of mu receptors and preferentially inhibits serotonin reuptake, whereas (-)-tramadol mainly inhibits noradrenaline reuptake. The action of these 2 enantiomers is both complementary and synergistic and results in the analgesic effect of (+/-)-tramadol. After oral administration, tramadol demonstrates 68% bioavailability, with peak serum concentrations reached within 2 hours. The elimination kinetics can be described as 2-compartmental, with a half-life of 5.1 hours for tramadol and 9 hours for the M1 derivative after a single oral dose of 100mg. This explains the approximately 2-fold accumulation of the parent drug and its M1 derivative that is observed during multiple dose treatment with tramadol.
 
Just Google is Tramadol an opiate. Your obviously misinformed on how it works. There is a specific reason why opiates slow down T production and it has to do with extended use and how opiates slow a lot of neuro-chemical signalling the body to do what it's supposed to do. This is not just opiates as a blank statement. Some have little effect and others are far worse than others for example methadone is the worst for T production while hydrocodone doesn't effect it very much at all.

Yes I have seen zero decrease in T anymore than my average decrease that I have experienced the past 12 years. 1.5 years of tramadol, 10x or so per week hasnt caused my T to drop any faster.

Edit: basically tramadol has not caused my T levels to drop faster than my average over the past 12 years. Due to a condition, personal matter, im tested 3 times per year.
 
Opiate is a term classically used in pharmacology to mean a drug derived from opium. Opioid, a more modern term, is used to designate all substances, both natural and synthetic, that bind to opioid receptors. Not an opiate or opioid. It's mode of effect is not the same.

Agreed, tramadol does zero for my pain but at 125mg I "feel" superhuman and over filled with life for 7 hours.

1 scoop of bloodshred, 100mg tramadol, I am literally the most positive human breathing for 5 to 7 hours.
 
Opiods are known to effect the endocrine system function causing hormonal imbalances. Basically overuse of opioids can lead to suppression of GnRH. Once that is suppressed all bets are off.
 
I have been only consuming around 1100 Kcals per day, 198g pro, 54g cho, 15.4g fat (6 g of which come from omega 3)

This is due to the protein sparing muscle fast i have been on which has been 9 weeks straight now, with only 3 refeeds in the full 9 weeks, how much do you feel the extreme dieting would contribute to the test levels being low.

Mate lots of studies show that all three of the things you are doing can dramatically reduce testosterone- calorie restriction, low carb diets and low fat diets
 
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