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Sleep Stack Critique

rippedchris

New member
Hey guys, looking to really improve my quality of sleep. I'm 35 years old, having to stay up late for work and then get up early for family duty. Usually in bed by 1, getting up about 6. Just feeling tired and lethargic lately, so I figured I'd try some supplements to see if that helps any. So here's what I'm thinking to consume about 10 minutes before I hop in the sack:

Chamomile Tea
Zinc - 30 mg
Magnesium - 400 mg
Mucuna - 400 mg (15% L-Dopa)
Melatonin - 5 mg

Is this overkill? And will Melatonin and Mucuna be ok together? Just curious, thanks!
 
The grogginess associated with melatonin seems to be on a
"Case by case" basis, but from my experience, I only need about 1-2mg, and anything past that makes a zombie for atleast an hour after waking up.

I'd also recommend diphenhydramine. It helps me hit REM faster, and is also shown to help reduce cardiovascular stress associated with stimulants as an added bonus.
 
rippedchris said:
Ok bro, I have some Benadryl lying around here somewhere. Any addictive concerns?
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I've been taking it on and off for a couple years after a doctor recommended I take it to help fall asleep after a late shift at work, and I haven't experienced any. Typically after I run out, it takes me at least few weeks to get more out of laziness, if that helps to put it into perspective.
 
I think they will be okay together. Truthfully for me melatonin alone does the trick. You could start out by just trying it and if it doesn't work for you then add in the others .
 
P.brow17 said:
The grogginess associated with melatonin seems to be on a
"Case by case" basis, but from my experience, I only need about 1-2mg, and anything past that makes a zombie for atleast an hour after waking up.

I'd also recommend diphenhydramine. It helps me hit REM faster, and is also shown to help reduce cardiovascular stress associated with stimulants as an added bonus.
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Wow I'm glad I read this, I always thought diphenhydramine prevents REM. I take it when I have bouts of insomnia but was always scared to do so because of that.
 
I'd only use Benadryl sparingly:

Long term anticholinergic use is associated with an increased risk for cognitive decline and dementia among older people. Due to its strong anticholinergic effects, diphenhydramine is on the "Beers List" of drugs to avoid in the elderly.
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If you're staring at a digital screen until 1AM, you need to kill the Blue Light with an app (F.Lux or Night Shift, etc...) or wear Blue Light Blocking Glasses.
 
The_Old_Guy said:
I'd only use Benadryl sparingly:



If you're staring at a digital screen until 1AM, you need to kill the Blue Light with an app (F.Lux or Night Shift, etc...) or wear Blue Light Blocking Glasses.
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I was going to touch on this but didn't feel like searching for an associated study to defend it. I'd tailor usage more toward aiding in the restructuring of healthier sleep cycle. The end goal should be to have such a well-established sleeping routine that any form of supplementation isn't necessary. I don't how much cognitive weakening applies to people who don't fall into the category of "elderly", but either way it's definitely not a good idea to use it every night.
 
P.brow17 said:
I was going to touch on this but didn't feel like searching for an associated study to defend it. I'd tailor usage more toward aiding in the restructuring of healthier sleep cycle. The end goal should be to have such a well-established sleeping routine that any form of supplementation isn't necessary. I don't how much cognitive weakening applies to people who don't fall into the category of "elderly", but either way it's definitely not a good idea to use it every night.
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I agree. I actually just take what I do - "because" really... there are nights where I don't feel like "mixing up" anything and just go to bed with nothing, and am "out" in minutes (Note: I *always* put my Blue Light glasses on though - they work for me). So agree all around - you shouldn't "need" anything but no Blue Light after Dusk (like nature intended). The OP probably staring at a screen until 1AM is Royally f'ing him up - I'd love to see a DUTCH Test and some blood work on him :D
 
I suggest the following based on personal experience:

-Kava Kava Extract Powder 2 hours before bed (can be used daily). It puts you in a relaxed state. Knocks out anxiety.

-Phenibut XT by SNS. This is the big gun. It's AMAZING! It shouldn't be used every day but 2-3 days a week (not consecutively) will do you right. I'm 216lbs and 1.5 scoops is the sweet spot. 20 minutes and lights out. If you want to feel like you've entered a coma and wake up with a WTF just happened and why do I feel so refreshed feeling go for 2 scoops.

Natural Options:
-Eliminate electronics before bed. Read a book instead or learn to meditate.
-Don't exercise intensely within 2 hours of bed
-Cut out caffeine after 2PM (adjust based on your bedtime)
-Keep a journal if you need to get thoughts on paper before bed write them down.
-Mastrubate, or even better have sex!
 
Ever heard of HGH PRO? if you can get through the first 10 minutes of grogginess you'll feel like a champ
 
snrub said:
Ever heard of HGH PRO? if you can get through the first 10 minutes of grogginess you'll feel like a champ
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Ok, I'll check it out man. Thanks! I have an almost full bottle America's Finest HGH Dopa 400 mg that I figured I'll try first. No sense in wasting that. Also, I took melatonin the other night and felt like a zombie the next day, so I guess that's out!
 
Not sure of the convoluted logic that links Mucuna Pruriens to Sleep? Is it all a result of that bogus (IMO) "study", where 2 hyper-responders out of 17 had a GH increase after taking Mucuna and Safed Musli - and since most GH is excreted at night - that means L-Dopa = Sleep? I mean, a quick Google shows that it either does nothing for sleep, or negatively impacts it (at least in Parkinson's patients). Do any of these bring to mind being tired: Dopamine, Norepinephrine (Noradrenaline) and Epinephrine (Adrenaline)? Cocaine and Chocolate addicts get hits of Dopamine all the time - I don't think Pablo Escobar was tired all the time :D
 
The_Old_Guy said:
Not sure of the convoluted logic that links Mucuna Pruriens to Sleep? Is it all a result of that bogus (IMO) "study", where 2 hyper-responders out of 17 had a GH increase after taking Mucuna and Safed Musli - and since most GH is excreted at night - that means L-Dopa = Sleep? I mean, a quick Google shows that it either does nothing for sleep, or negatively impacts it (at least in Parkinson's patients). Do any of these bring to mind being tired: Dopamine, Norepinephrine (Noradrenaline) and Epinephrine (Adrenaline)? Cocaine and Chocolate addicts get hits of Dopamine all the time - I don't think Pablo Escobar was tired all the time :D
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Interesting points you make, but your logic is a little flawed, at least on yayo part. For starters, Pablo didn't do coke hardly at all. Mark Bowden wrote a fascinating book titled "Killing Pablo: The Hunt for the World's Greatest Outlaw" and the book references multiple times from multiple sources that Pablo smoked grass but hardly touched coke. But further, with coke, yes, you actually do get very tired after a while because you brain chemistry get's ****ed up. That's why you have to blow more and more coke to at least keep the baseline. Recovering coke addicts generally deal with depression on a much larger scale than other addicts because their dopamine is so out of whack, and then hence, everything else is too.

But regardless, I haven't studied the effects of mucuna on sleep much, so my logic is probably flawed here. My only only point of reference that it could potentially help with sleep was when I took UPS Lab's Powerfull back in they day. It seemed to give me a deep, restful sleep, but I can't be sure the mucuna was causing that. Maybe I was just working hard and busting my ass in the gym? I'll research that a little more since my only knowledge of it proves to be pretty inconclusive.

Thanks!
 
rippedchris said:
Interesting points you make, but your logic is a little flawed...
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Even though I am a teen of the 80's - I never did Coke, or knew Pablo personally :D - so I was taking Poetic License with the statement. Bottom line is: show me data that Dopamine is considered a "sleep" substance :D
 
Man, that's a good thing bro! I'm actually in recovery for drugs and alcohol (mostly booze and coke) so I kinda wish I could say the same. Yet, those experiences made me who I am today, so I'm grateful for that too.

I'm not arguing your stance on dopamine and sleep. I took a quick and couldn't find any evidence that it helps sleep outside of all the supp companies basically saying it belongs in a sleep stack. That being said, when should I take the mucuna now? I've heard it works wonders before workouts too. Thoughts?
 
Man, ole Finaflex's G8 was the ultimate sleep supp! I wish they still made that stuff, I'd give a left nut for a lifetime supply right about now.
 
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