Keto Hunger

dbl38

Member
I'm working on Keto and at first I think my protein was to high and I wasn't getting into full keto. I've upped my fats and I've now hit a point over the past few days that I'm starving? Is this from my fats still being to low?
 
More info required, what is your total macro breakdown, current body weight and height, current diet goal (assume cutting)
 
Others will disagree with me but a true keto diet should be 20-30g nett carbs, protein lowish at around 80-100g (however most weight lifters tend to go with 200+ as I did and I consider this not keto but LCHF) and the balance of diet in fat (at least 75% of total calories)
 
I would say your carbs are too high for keto, need to be below 50g total ideally 30g of nett carbs (total carbs less fibre) unless you are just going for a low carb high fat diet and not full blown ketosis
 
My carbs are low enough the 10% is totally a guess on that end. I'm just trying to determine if the hunger is a side effect of still eating to lean?
 
dbl38 said:
My carbs are low enough the 10% is totally a guess on that end. I'm just trying to determine if the hunger is a side effect of still eating to lean?
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Are your electrolytes on point? 5-7g sodium on top of what is in your food, 1g potassium, 500~mg magnesium.

If I'm low on sodium on keto, my hunger goes through the roof.

I'd suggest 0.8-1.2g protein per LBM, carbs under 20-30g net, and rest of calories made up in dietary fat such as oils - coconut, olive, MCT, Ghee ; fat from animal, dairy if you choose to and inflammation doesnt bother you, etc.

Also, you are dieting, so hunger is most likely inevitable. Are you using any stims to combat hunger? I'd really make sure your electrolytes are on point and you are drinking adequate amounts of water.
 
Wimsicle said:
Are your electrolytes on point? 5-7g sodium on top of what is in your food, 1g potassium, 500~mg magnesium.

If I'm low on sodium on keto, my hunger goes through the roof.

I'd suggest 0.8-1.2g protein per LBM, carbs under 20-30g net, and rest of calories made up in dietary fat such as oils - coconut, olive, MCT, Ghee ; fat from animal, dairy if you choose to and inflammation doesnt bother you, etc.

Also, you are dieting, so hunger is most likely inevitable. Are you using any stims to combat hunger? I'd really make sure your electrolytes are on point and you are drinking adequate amounts of water.
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Thank you! My sodium may be a little low, I generally don't eat salt but I've added hot sauce to breakfast and mustard to dinner. I'm getting over a gallon of water a day so that's on point. I've just been so freaking hungry the past 2 days that it sucks!!
 
dbl38 said:
Thank you! My sodium may be a little low, I generally don't eat salt but I've added hot sauce to breakfast and mustard to dinner. I'm getting over a gallon of water a day so that's on point. I've just been so freaking hungry the past 2 days that it sucks!!
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Yeah definitely get your sodium under control. Track it for 2-3 days just to see what its actually like. Some things I do to help:

Boullion cube - dissolve in water and drink :)
Pink himalaya / sea salt shots - dissolve in water, squeeze little lime or something in there for acidity
Sodium pills
Salt food extra.

Keto is very diuretic and you do not retain the sodium that you would normally on a standard american diet as you arent eating much processed food or anything of that nature that is packed with sodium. On top of that, you are probably pissing more and getting rid of it that way too.

See if that helps! I always down a few pickles or sip on a little of the juice if I get cravings/hungry. Also, make sure you are getting adequate protein as it is the most satiating macro in my opinion. Don't worry about getting 'kicked out' of ketosis if you are eating 0.8g-1.2g per lbm, you'll be fine.
DieselNY -- I'll ping him as well to offer any input
 
There's a horrendous misconception that fat intake especially on keto is satiating but it couldn't be further from the truth..

Protein is the most satiating macronutrient.


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"A hierarchy has been observed for the satiating*efficacies of themacronutrients protein, carbohydrate and fat, with*protein*as*most satiating and fat as least*satiating."

Protein is more filling than fat or carbohydrate. Studies show that protein is the most satiating while fat is the least satiating. Carbs fall in the middle.

Protein has an influence on CCK (cholecystokinin) and ghrelin. Protein may stimulate CCK and decrease ghrelin. CCK acts as a satiety signal. Ghrelin is produced primarily in the stomach and has appetite increasing properties. Ghrelin levels are relatively high prior to a meal and they decrease after a meal.

A review published in Nutrition & Metabolism reported that protein induced thermogenesis has an important effect on satiety. "Protein plays a key role in body weight regulation through satiety related to diet-induced thermogenesis."

A study published in Physiology & Behavior investigated the relative satiating effect of the macronutrients in lean women. On four separate occasions, the composition of an iso-caloric lunch "preload" was controlled in 12 lean women. Macronutrient composition had a significant effect on short-term hunger – the women were less hungry after the protein preload compared to the preloads with the other macronutrients. They also ate less after the protein preload.

A study published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition tested the prediction that increasing protein while maintaining the carb content of a diet lowers body weight due to decreased appetite and decreased calorie intake. The study showed when increasing the protein intake from 15% of diet to 30% of diet (while eating the same amount of carbs) there was a decrease in appetite and fewer calories were consumed.

The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism published a study that compared the effect of different proteins and carbohydrates on indicators of appetite and appetite regulatory hormones. CCK level was one of the primary outcomes measured. Calorie intake was higher after the glucose preload compared with lactose and protein preloads. CCK level was higher 90 minutes after the protein preloads compared with glucose and lactose level. Researchers concluded that "acute appetite and energy intake are equally reduced after consumption of lactose, casein, or whey compared with glucose."

References
Westerterp, K.R. (2004). Diet induced thermogenesis. Nutrition & Metabolism, 1, 1-5
Poppitt, S.D., McCormack, D., & Buffenstein, R. (1998).Short-term effects of macronutrient preloads on appetite and energy intake in lean women. Physiology & Behavior, 64(3), 279-285.
Blom, A.M., Lluch, A., Stafleu, A., Vinoy, S., Holst, J., Schaafsma, G., & Hendriks, H. (2006). Effect of high-protein breakfast ont he postprandial ghrelin response. The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 83(2), 211-220.
Bowen, J., Noakes, M., Trenerry, C., & Clifton, P.M. (2006).Energy intake, Ghrelin, and Cholecystokinin after Different Carbohydrate and Protein Preloads in Overweight Men. The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, 91(4).
 
My mind is now blown!!

Okay so I'll keep track of my sodium and see how I feel. I'm sure that upping it will let me sleep a little better, not going to pee every few hours would be awesome!!
 
dbl38 said:
My mind is now blown!!

Okay so I'll keep track of my sodium and see how I feel. I'm sure that upping it will let me sleep a little better, not going to pee every few hours would be awesome!!
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Upping sodium will help with hunger, energy, 'fullness' of muscle that keto tends to deplete and make you feel flat. It may also help with sleep, but I think magnesium before bed would be a better choice there.

You could also try for a better "pump" by sodium loading 1-2g of sodium along with your pre-workout. Asssuming you are doing an SKD rather than a TKD.
 
I'm shooting for CKD but I have been setting up to start and wanted to get into full keto before hand. I've leaned out a good bit doing a refeed every 2 weeks but I'm just wanting to get the last few tweeks to it. I've done this several times before but I've gotten older and it just changes each time so here I am.
 
For sure, I would try and get fat adapted prior to the carb ups, or incorporate TKD instead for the next few weeks. I guess it ultimately depends on you and if you need the 'mental break' to eat some carbs, as well as the 'refeed'. I don't remember specifics as I don't dabble with CKD yet, but I believe if you refeed prior to adaptation, it can actually result in muscle loss? Don't quote me on that though... haha
 
I'll see how I feel next week I have been doing this for about 2 months with a refeed every 2 weeks while tweeking my intake each time I've just hit hungry and that's new. I've got a little more leaning and then I'll add carbs on Wednesday for a week or two then Tuesday and Thursday, while refeeding on Sunday.
 
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