Let's talk Ashwagandha

BigKrabbe

BigKrabbe

Active member
I wanted to start a discussion and results thread for Ashwagandha since I love it and think it's amazing. I'd like to get some other peoples results, input, bloodwork, and thoughts on the many benefits of Ashwagandha use. I will be posting studies and my personal experience with Ash shortly.
 
BigKrabbe said:
I wanted to start a discussion and results thread for Ashwagandha since I love it and think it's amazing. I'd like to get some other peoples results, input, bloodwork, and thoughts on the many benefits of Ashwagandha use. I will be posting studies and my personal experience with Ash shortly.
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One of my favorite ingredients with a variety of uses. I use 600mg/day KSM-66, and take all 600mg at night.

There's a ton of research on ashwagandha, showing benefit including:

-Reduced cortisol, stress, and anxiety
-Improved endurance, strength, and muscle mass
-Improved sexual function
-Improved cognitive and psychomotor performance

I also want to note the importance of proper (HPLC) standardization when dealing with ashwagandha (withanolides). Here's some info from KSM-66:
The vast majority of manufacturers across the world estimate withanolide content by gravimetric analysis, which does not provide accurate results. Unfortunately, gravimetric analysis often overestimates withanolide content by a factor of 2.5 to 3! This is because gravimetry does not adequately discriminate between withanolides and some other constituents, thereby bundling withanolides with other compounds and over-assessing the extent of withanolides. Furthermore, gravimetric analysis is idiosyncratic and shows too much inter-batch and intra-batch variation. In contrast, the HPLC method of withanolide assessment operates near the molecular level and is much more discriminating and accurate. KSM-66 withanolide content is measured by HPLC and is found to be of >5% concentration. As an aside, when measured by gravimetry, the concentration is found to be in the 8% to 15% range.
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With that in mind, and the COAs and spec sheets I've seen from many sources of bulk ashwagandha, many 1.5% or 2.5% extracts use gravimetry, meaning that their 2.5% may only be ~1%. Due to that, the 1.2g of ashwagandha extract you may be using (1200mg at 2.5% = 30mg withanolides; the same as 600mg/day of a 5% extract) may actually only yield 12mg withanolides, or less than 1/2 of what what you think and/or the studied dose. Due to that, these other extracts may not actually be cheaper than something like KSM-66. Now there are some good quality bulk options as well, but I found that KSM-66 is a great combination of price, convenience, and quality.
 
I'm thankful you brought the withanolide discrepancy from different testing methods up. I know now why some people have sworn by the difference they felt between ksm-66 and just plain ashwagandha. It's all about that withanolide content. What is your opinion on ksm-66 vs. sensoril?
 
Benefits I have had since I began taking ashwagandha include:
-improved mood
-reduced anxiety and ptsd symptoms
-better response to life stress
-higher testosterone levels (established with bloodwork before and after a with ash being the only variable.
-improved sperm parameters

I can legitimately say that without ashwagandha I would be on several medications for PTSD that the VA was trying to shove down my throat. While I still very much so have PTSD, my symptoms have been way more manageable without making me dependent on several medications.
 
BigKrabbe said:
I'm thankful you brought the withanolide discrepancy from different testing methods up. I know now why some people have sworn by the difference they felt between ksm-66 and just plain ashwagandha. It's all about that withanolide content. What is your opinion on ksm-66 vs. sensoril?
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Both are high quality with studies confirming their effectiveness. If you know where to look, you can get a month supply of either one (dosed at 30mg/day withanolides) for $7 or less. That's value and convenience (a few caps vs a lot of powder, haha).
 
Lol very true, I think since you brought the withanolide testing issue up to me I am going to switch over to sensoril or ksm next month. I'll just get them from the same place I get my nootropics from.
 
BigKrabbe said:
I'm thankful you brought the withanolide discrepancy from different testing methods up. I know now why some people have sworn by the difference they felt between ksm-66 and just plain ashwagandha. It's all about that withanolide content. What is your opinion on ksm-66 vs. sensoril?
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I prefer to take ksm in the morning and post workout and sensoril pre bed. KSM seems to make my dreams very vivid to the point of it being exhausting when I wake up.
 
I use Swansons Ashwagandha Extract, but I really wonder if I'm shorting myself.
 
banjobounce said:
I prefer to take ksm in the morning and post workout and sensoril pre bed. KSM seems to make my dreams very vivid to the point of it being exhausting when I wake up.
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so, what do you dose? Im interested in this split approach as ash also gives me lethargy in the mornings if i take pre-bed (currently using m-test which includes KSM 66)

Alos interesting OP has been using bulk which in his experience has worked for him. OP please post up your dosing and brand of the ash you use. if it works, why spend more?
 
BigKrabbe I meant to ask, if the other ingredients haven't worked after being on them a few months why do you continue using them? I know you said the ASH was the only new variable but im not convinced you can completely rule out these other ingredients have contributed to any improved test and sperm parameters. These may have synergistic effects with ash, resulting in improvements that ash by itself may not produce ie they could be confounding factors to the results. To be able to truly attribute the effects to ash and obtain a clean baseline you need to drop the other ingredients and rerun before and after bloodwork. i dont think any decent research study would draw any conclusive findings based on your method

Most natty will have very little if any impact on normal healthy resistance training and even for hypogonodal men will temporarily tip them into medium-low, levels,and on the odd rare occasion, to median ranges test wise

By the way what other hormonal ingredients were/are you using?
 
muscleupcrohn said:
One of my favorite ingredients with a variety of uses. I use 600mg/day KSM-66, and take all 600mg at night.
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Do you think it matters on dosage timing?

The randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study included 57 healthy males aged 18-50 with little previous resistance training experience. Subjects were randomized to consume 300 mg of KSM-66 ashwagandha root extract or a starch placebo twice daily for eight weeks. Both the experimental and control groups underwent resistance training during the eight-week experimental period.
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AM/PM? - All at once PrWO? - All at once before bed?
 
Ape McGrapes said:
I use Swansons Ashwagandha Extract, but I really wonder if I'm shorting myself.
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With Swanson's, you need to use 3 x 250mg caps to get at least 600mg, correct? Jarrow has 300mg caps and there are deals to be had that may make it cheaper than Swanson's.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Both are high quality with studies confirming their effectiveness. If you know where to look, you can get a month supply of either one (dosed at 30mg/day withanolides) for $7 or less. That's value and convenience (a few caps vs a lot of powder, haha).
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Where is that? I presume you are saying you can get this cheap by ordering powder. Have you ever tried self-capping the powder?
 
The_Old_Guy said:
Do you think it matters on dosage timing?



AM/PM? - All at once PrWO? - All at once before bed?
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I personally don't think it matters, let me check the full text of the studies for you.
riffdex said:
Where is that? I presume you are saying you can get this cheap by ordering powder. Have you ever tried self-capping the powder?
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That's already capped, from the place with the same last name as Joe from family guy. ;)

Jarrow for KSM-66 and their house brand for Sensoril.
ucheoma said:
so, what do you dose? Im interested in this split approach as ash also gives me lethargy in the mornings if i take pre-bed (currently using m-test which includes KSM 66)

Alos interesting OP has been using bulk which in his experience has worked for him. OP please post up your dosing and brand of the ash you use. if it works, why spend more?
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Perhaps it could be even better. Also, if it turns out it was not HPLC, he may not have been taking as much actives as he thought, so could get the same dose cheaper from a different source, or more for a similar price.
 
ucheoma said:
so, what do you dose? Im interested in this split approach as ash also gives me lethargy in the mornings if i take pre-bed (currently using m-test which includes KSM 66)

Alos interesting OP has been using bulk which in his experience has worked for him. OP please post up your dosing and brand of the ash you use. if it works, why spend more?
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300mg ksm am 600mg ksm post workout and 375mg sensoril pre bed.
 
CEL M TEST has full dosages of KSM66. Very cost effective and provides many benefits!

If going just for KSM66 as a single ingredient, then Jarrows brand is the way to go.
 
The_Old_Guy said:
With Swanson's, you need to use 3 x 250mg caps to get at least 600mg, correct? Jarrow has 300mg caps and there are deals to be had that may make it cheaper than Swanson's.
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They are 450mg pills at 1.5% or 6.75mg withanolides. I've been taking three a day, so a total of 20.25mg withanolides. A little less than the 30mg I see recommended in this thread.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
I personally don't think it matters, let me check the full text of the studies for you.

That's already capped, from the place with the same last name as Joe from family guy. ;)

Jarrow for KSM-66 and their house brand for Sensoril.

Perhaps it could be even better. Also, if it turns out it was not HPLC, he may not have been taking as much actives as he thought, so could get the same dose cheaper from a different source, or more for a similar price.
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Lots of perhaps...OP probably can answer most of these otherwise we're just speculating as to the relative quality and merit/demerits of bulk ash/extracts vs KSM 66 on cost and quality. I suspect without testing it remains a speculation
 
banjobounce said:
300mg ksm am 600mg ksm post workout and 375mg sensoril pre bed.
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Plenty of ash. I may try splitting between km 66 and sensoril but perhaps not those quantities. Definitely wont be buying anymore 'testboosters' with ash in there as it's going to curtail when/how much i take. From now on if i want ash Ill buy separately as this will give me more flexibility in my dosing without having to cut back as well on other ingredients in the test booster eg LJ
 
ucheoma said:
Plenty of ash. I may try splitting between km 66 and sensoril but perhaps not those quantities. Definitely wont be buying anymore 'testboosters' with ash in there as it's going to curtail when/how much i take. From now on if i want ash Ill buy separately as this will give me more flexibility in my dosing without having to cut back as well on other ingredients in the test booster eg LJ
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It may be worth noting that higher doses of ashwagandha (I've seen 100mg/day withanolides used) have been effective and well tolerated in studies, so while you may not want or need extra ashwagandha, it likely isn't going to be harmful/detrimental.
 
BigKrabbe said:
Benefits I have had since I began taking ashwagandha include:
-improved mood
-reduced anxiety and ptsd symptoms
-better response to life stress
-higher testosterone levels (established with bloodwork before and after a with ash being the only variable.
-improved sperm parameters

I can legitimately say that without ashwagandha I would be on several medications for PTSD that the VA was trying to shove down my throat. While I still very much so have PTSD, my symptoms have been way more manageable without making me dependent on several medications.
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How much of an increase in T if I may ask?
 
Zariph said:
interesting, never head of ppl dosing KSM post workout, but I guess its good for cortisol control right after aight?
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I am not being rhetorical, but is it supposed to be dosed pre? I have often wondered but have never checked on it. I guess I always figured it would calm me too much during the training session and that it would better be utilized before bed lol.
 
ucheoma said:
Plenty of ash. I may try splitting between km 66 and sensoril but perhaps not those quantities. Definitely wont be buying anymore 'testboosters' with ash in there as it's going to curtail when/how much i take. From now on if i want ash Ill buy separately as this will give me more flexibility in my dosing without having to cut back as well on other ingredients in the test booster eg LJ
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I literally found mine for a dollar a bottle at a thrift store. That's the only reason I am dosing as such.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
It may be worth noting that higher doses of ashwagandha (I've seen 100mg/day withanolides used) have been effective and well tolerated in studies, so while you may not want or need extra ashwagandha, it likely isn't going to be harmful/detrimental.
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Question is do the studies indicate a straight line relationship between dosage and benefits? If not whats the point. Also not aware of any long term safety studies on large dosages.i tend to err on the side of caution and i believe, so do you?
 
rascal14 said:
I don't think I would consume anything bought from a thrift store.. lol
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lol. It's still sealed They are just shelf pulls from cvs, walgreens, etc. Sometimes some pretty good stuff is found such as Jarrows, Cellucor, etc products.
 
ucheoma said:
Question is do the studies indicate a straight line relationship between dosage and benefits? If not whats the point. Also not aware of any long term safety studies on large dosages.i tend to err on the side of caution and i believe, so do you?
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What I mean is that you don't have to inherently avoid any and all products that have ashwagandha in them because you're using standalone ashwagandha. Granted, you don't need more, and you could find products without it if you so choose. Ashwagandha has a very, very long record of safe historical use, human studies have used larger doses, and, if I recall, animal studies found extracts like KSM-66 go have a very nice safety profile well above doses that humans would really ever use; it may actually even be safer to consume 30-100mg/day withanolides from something like KSM-66 or Sensoril than from just ground ashwagandha powder for example.

TL;DR: Personally, I wouldn't worry about taking 30-100mg/day withanolides from KSM-66 or Sensoril, but that's just me, and I'm not a doctor, it's not medical advice, etc, etc.
 
Im not avoiding other products with ash becaused of the safety but because it gives me greater control on when how much ash i take
I suspect i have low cortisol which is why the ash may be makimg me lethargic. I probably wont dose ed. Im having to halve my m test dosage which means im underdosing the other ingredients because im trying to avoid the lethargic effects of ash.
 
I just bought ashwagandha extract and it's a 15:1 extract in a 400mg pill which means it's about 6g of powder what I don't understand is that it doesn't say anything about withanolides...
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Talking about studies.
I often refer to this one from 2012 to someone who is interested in ashwagandha for stress management.

A Prospective, Randomized Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled Study of Safety and Efficacy of a High-Concentration Full-Spectrum Extract of Ashwagandha Root in Reducing Stress and Anxiety in Adults
 
JCR97 said:
I just bought ashwagandha extract and it's a 15:1 extract in a 400mg pill which means it's about 6g of powder what I don't understand is that it doesn't say anything about withanolides...
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Does anyone know about this? I'm interested as well. A lot of extracts out there that are like 15:1, 20:1 etc but nothing about withanolides content.
 
bosskardo said:
Does anyone know about this? I'm interested as well. A lot of extracts out there that are like 15:1, 20:1 etc but nothing about withanolides content.
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I've seen one study say:
Based on the withanolide concentration of 5%, we assessed the extract ratio of KSM-66 to be 1 : 10. The traditional dosage of ashwagandha raw root powder is 3000 mg twice a day, as reported in the literature, across a variety of applications. Reducing the traditional dosage commensurately, we arrived at the dosage of 300 mg twice per day.
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This study also used 6g/day:
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Lower doses than your standard 600mg/day KSM-66 have still been shown to be effective, but ashwagandha is cheap enough that it makes sense to stick with the dose that has so much research on it.

If you're using a ratio extract, perhaps start by aiming for the equivalent of 6g/day. With that said, in the future, I'd recommend going with something standardized for withanolides (HPLC), is it's still very affordable and really a better assurance of quality/effectiveness.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
I've seen one study say:

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This study also used 6g/day:
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Lower doses than your standard 600mg/day KSM-66 have still been shown to be effective, but ashwagandha is cheap enough that it makes sense to stick with the dose that has so much research on it.

If you're using a ratio extract, perhaps start by aiming for the equivalent of 6g/day. With that said, in the future, I'd recommend going with something standardized for withanolides (HPLC), is it's still very affordable and really a better assurance of quality/effectiveness.
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Yeah that's true thanks man!
 
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