Donald Trump running for president

[muscleupcrohn]

When the min wage goes up, spending goes up. You can afford to spend more.

You dont start by getting people to buy pricier items, you start by increasing the min wage. Because in the US its pathetic.

Frankly, I don't think there's any one magic answer that will solve everything. If minimum wage goes up significantly in the US, it's only natural that companies will start automating certain positions to save money. If you don't want these machines taking jobs, the people will have to speak with their wallets and buy from companies that don't use them, even if they're a bit cheaper. A lot of people aren't willing to do that, and simply want the cheapest and easiest option.

 

[ax1]

]Because in the US its pathetic.

Its not pathetic at all here, trust me I live here. Depends on how your set your life up for the most part and work towards bettering yourself and also preparing for the future and not ever settling with your current circumstances. Here in the US, although we have alot of issues our destiny can be put in our own hands.

 

[Jiigzz]

I do know last time I checked there are worse unemployment stats in Europe than here in the US, including countries such as Germany. Also they steal more of peoples money through income tax.

The whole idea of even putting a price on a hour is ridiculous. It takes out incentives to be productive. I would boycott hourly wages as a whole. Best jobs Ive had were non-union payed for the quantity type....people worked their ass off and had their pockets full compared to the same job that payed hourly and was union (cable company.)

You should get paid what you're worth, scaled up from a minimum. if you abolish it, you open it up to greedy employers who will literally decrease wages for staff to increase profit for self

 

[thebigt]

I do know last time I checked there are worse unemployment stats in Europe than here in the US, including countries such as Germany. Also they steal more of peoples money through income tax.

The whole idea of even putting a price on a hour is ridiculous. It takes out incentives to be productive. I would boycott hourly wages as a whole. Best jobs Ive had were non-union payed for the quantity type....people worked their ass off and had their pockets full compared to the same job that payed hourly and was union (cable company.)

hey, look at it like this-you are subsidizing Walmart!!!

if Walmart pays a 40 hour a week worker who has kids minimum wage, then guess what-you are paying for that workers food stamps and whatever other entitlement he is qualified for!!!

 

[muscleupcrohn]

You should get paid what you're worth, scaled up from a minimum. if you abolish it, you open it up to greedy employers who will literally decrease wages for staff to increase profit for self

But that means certain people who aren't deemed worth the minimum won't get the jobs, especially if machines can do the same thing at a fraction of the cost. Again, there is no one right/perfect answer.

 

[thebigt]

You should get paid what you're worth, scaled up from a minimum. if you abolish it, you open it up to greedy employers who will literally decrease wages for staff to increase profit for self

the stock market is skyrocketing, but wages remain stagnant!!!

 

[Jiigzz]

Frankly, I don't think there's any one magic answer that will solve everything. If minimum wage goes up significantly in the US, it's only natural that companies will start automating certain positions to save money. If you don't want these machines taking jobs, the people will have to speak with their wallets and buy from companies that don't use them, even if they're a bit cheaper. A lot of people aren't willing to do that, and simply want the cheapest and easiest option.

Automation will occur regardless, it saves money and human error overall. Not increasing the minimum arguably will decrease the time it takes for an employer to get there.

I feel that automation is a weak excuse to undervalue your staff and pay them less

 

[ax1]

Automation will occur regardless, it saves money and human error overall. Not increasing the minimum arguably will decrease the time it takes for an employer to get there.

I feel that automation is a weak excuse to undervalue your staff and pay them less

You can raise it to $50 tomorrow, in a matter of no time the same people will beg for $80. Inflation.

 

[Jiigzz]

the stock market is skyrocketing, but wages remain stagnant!!!

People think employers will pay fairly, but they won't. They live to keep all costs down, including wages. They expect blood and bone for you, but will only pay you a pittance to do so.

The uni I work for pays a min $20 per hour entry. Even those in entry positions work hard because they feel like they are paid their worth. when you can live, and live comfortably, you push harder to maintain high standards

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Automation will occur regardless, it saves money and human error overall. Not increasing the minimum arguably will decrease the time it takes for an employer to get there.

I feel that automation is a weak excuse to undervalue your staff and pay them less

Your first point is true. It's not the only reason I am stating though. What if the cashier ($9/hour) who now gets $15. His manager made $13, now is he only making $15 too, but has more responsibility and does more work for the same pay as the cashier? Or does the manager get his pay increased proportionately as well? What of his boss? I see it as potentially just leading to inflation if the minimum wage is increased too fast in too short of a period of time.

 

[ax1]

the biggest difference I see was teenagers worked for minimum wage jobs to make spending money back then, they were never meant to sustain a family.

I was wondering, I used to be poor for years. I was around alot of poor people, many. I see alot of people spending the little money they have to buy the cable bill, or to buy the latest sneakers....they get a tax check and blow it on a video game system or hdtv....NOT all, no way am I saying that but just saying in society there is alot of screwed up people and I used to be one of them. Now, Im talking 80's to the day (me being a screw up is 90s-early 2000's) I see this. Was it as rampant back then in the 60s and 70s?

 

[muscleupcrohn]

People think employers will pay fairly, but they won't. They live to keep all costs down, including wages. They expect blood and bone for you, but will only pay you a pittance to do so.

The uni I work for pays a min $20 per hour entry. Even those in entry positions work hard because they feel like they are paid their worth. when you can live, and live comfortably, you push harder to maintain high standards

The janitor is making $20/hr? That's impressive.

 

[Jiigzz]

Your first point is true. It's not the only reason I am stating though. What if the cashier ($9/hour) who now gets $15. His manager made $13, now is he only making $15 too, but has more responsibility and does more work for the same pay as the cashier? Or does the manager get his pay increased proportionately as well? What of his boss? I see it as potentially just leading to inflation if the minimum wage is increased too fast in too short of a period of time.

Its never been an issue here at all. I started work at 14 on $7.45 per hour. Over a few years the minimum is now $16.something and our economy is very strong for a small nation. Pay increased across the board.

If a manager is only making $15, I would leave that place. Most managers here make $25+ at entry

 

[Jiigzz]

The janitor is making $20/hr? That's impressive.

we don't really have janitors, but we have contracted cleaning staff. I have no idea what they make as they are not university employed. We only have uni employed cleaning managers who coordinate externals

 

[thebigt]

Automation will occur regardless, it saves money and human error overall. Not increasing the minimum arguably will decrease the time it takes for an employer to get there.

I feel that automation is a weak excuse to undervalue your staff and pay them less

I like how you think on this issue....but this goes back to my initial post-what if 'the people' boycott and protest automation? I realize it can only be done in a limited capacity, but it could be done in the fast food industry since it's just in it's infancy stage????

 

[Jiigzz]

FWIW I had all the same arguments you all made when they proposed min. Wage increases. Now that I have seen it work well here, all my fears were unjustified

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Its never been an issue here at all. I started work at 14 on $7.45 per hour. Over a few years the minimum is now $16.something and our economy is very strong for a small nation. Pay increased across the board.

If a manager is only making $15, I would leave that place. Most managers here make $25+ at entry

Perhaps a small nation is different than a very large one though? I feel that there are many factors that prevent a direct one-to-one comparison and make it difficult to say "this worked for Country A, so it'll inherently work for Country B." The same thing can be said for gun control; Australia had such a vastly different gun culture than the US, which made a ban a lot more feasible for them than it would be in the US.

TL;DR: It's complicated.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I like how you think on this issue....but this goes back to my initial post-what if 'the people' boycott and protest automation? I realize it can only be done in a limited capacity, but it could be done in the fast food industry since it's just in it's infancy stage????

Then you'll have to speak with your wallets; protest by not buying their products, even if they're cheaper. Holding signs and yelling at them while buying their food won't do a thing.

 

[ax1]

People think employers will pay fairly, but they won't. They live to keep all costs down, including wages. They expect blood and bone for you, but will only pay you a pittance to do so.

The uni I work for pays a min $20 per hour entry. Even those in entry positions work hard because they feel like they are paid their worth. when you can live, and live comfortably, you push harder to maintain high standards

Alot of big chain business have shut down over the last decade, many still to the day. These businesses may be a necessary evil because if they arent growing they shut down and thousands lose their jobs.

Some of the worst human filth Ive worked with were around people making $23 an hour back in 2005. We all made the same amount of money and it was Union. There was no incentive to work harder, and Ive worked with minimum wage workers who had better work ethics.

Better pay does not equate to a better worker. Making $20 does not mean you work harder because you get your "worth." Get rid of "hourly" wage and you will see more production overall, better quality.

On another note, Ive been around good paying jobs that had more dead broke people begging for overtime than minimun wage jobs. Go figure.

I was told at one of these places, "the more you make, the more you spend....its human nature."

 

[Jiigzz]

I like how you think on this issue....but this goes back to my initial post-what if 'the people' boycott and protest automation? I realize it can only be done in a limited capacity, but it could be done in the fast food industry since it's just in it's infancy stage????

If my fast food or restaurant service is given to a robot, I will not visit that place. I prefer human interaction any day of the week.

I just saw that Amazon has an almost completely automated warehouse now. That's scary

 

[thebigt]

Its never been an issue here at all. I started work at 14 on $7.45 per hour. Over a few years the minimum is now $16.something and our economy is very strong for a small nation. Pay increased across the board.

If a manager is only making $15, I would leave that place. Most managers here make $25+ at entry

proof it can be done...all these 'educated' guys on here have been blinded by academic bull****, imo.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

FWIW I had all the same arguments you all made when they proposed min. Wage increases. Now that I have seen it work well here, all my fears were unjustified

See my more recent post about comparisons between countries. I will admit, I don't I don't have THE answer; I don't think anyone has THE answer.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

If my fast food or restaurant service is given to a robot, I will not visit that place. I prefer human interaction any day of the week.

I just saw that Amazon has an almost completely automated warehouse now. That's scary

Amazon Prime is amazing. It's hard to compete with their shipping and product availability.

 

[ax1]

Its never been an issue here at all. I started work at 14 on $7.45 per hour. Over a few years the minimum is now $16.something and our economy is very strong for a small nation. Pay increased across the board.

If a manager is only making $15, I would leave that place. Most managers here make $25+ at entry

Whats your income taxes though....what you keep is what counts the most.

 

[ax1]

FWIW I had all the same arguments you all made when they proposed min. Wage increases. Now that I have seen it work well here, all my fears were unjustified

Its easy to manage a country with half the population of NYC. 300 million with a history of out of control borders is very complicated.

 

[thebigt]

If my fast food or restaurant service is given to a robot, I will not visit that place. I prefer human interaction any day of the week.

I just saw that Amazon has an almost completely automated warehouse now. That's scary

once it is fully in place-game over...but with industry's such as fast food that are just starting to put automation in place of humans we still have a chance, imo.

what will they do when no one has a job? where will people get money to buy the crap?

 

[Jiigzz]

Alot of big chain business have shut down over the last decade, many still to the day. These businesses may be a necessary evil because if they arent growing they shut down and thousands lose their jobs.

Some of the worst human filth Ive worked with were around people making $23 an hour back in 2005. We all made the same amount of money and it was Union. There was no incentive to work harder, and Ive worked with minimum wage workers who had better work ethics.

Better pay does not equate to a better worker. Making $20 does not mean you work harder because you get your "worth." Get rid of "hourly" wage and you will see more production overall, better quality.

On another note, Ive been around good paying jobs that had more dead broke people begging for overtime than minimun wage jobs. Go figure.

I was told at one of these places, "the more you make, the more you spend....its human nature."

To be fair, NZers are often high priced targets because on the whole we have a reputation as hard workers, so much so that we have had severe restrictions on us working overseas.

In saying that, you simply cannot leave a business to operate ethically and pay you what you are worth. That does not happen. Business do what they can to increase margins at the expense of workers. They pay the top level in massive amounts, but continually pay entry level workers a pittance.

If managers are s***, then they need to be rid of. Any place can have a poor management culture, but it's up to their managers to hire staff who work to develop workers, not marginilise them. That's an issue not related to pay, but ethics

 

[muscleupcrohn]

once it is fully in place-game over...but with industry's such as fast food that are just starting to put automation in place of humans we still have a chance, imo.

what will they do when no one has a job? where will people get money to buy the crap?

Should we have protested advancements in phone technology so that switchboard operators didn't lose their jobs?

 

[ax1]

I like how you think on this issue....but this goes back to my initial post-what if 'the people' boycott and protest automation? I realize it can only be done in a limited capacity, but it could be done in the fast food industry since it's just in it's infancy stage????

What do you think of simply just protesting the corporate status quo. For example, instead of giving McDonalds your dollar, give it to lets say Grandmas Burgers...... Instead of Dunkin Donuts or the gas station, go to your local convenience store. If these corporations are scum, lets lift the middle class up.

 

[thebigt]

Whats your income taxes though....what you keep is what counts the most.

not exactly...what they do with your tax dollars counts too....instead of subsidizing Walmart our tax dollars could have been used to repair the infrastructure.

 

[Jiigzz]

Whats your income taxes though....what you keep is what counts the most.

Scaled. The more you earn the more you are taxed. My tax rate is 20% or so. But I dont mind, the governement pays me to save money by matching what I contribute to my savings

 

[thebigt]

What do you think of simply just protesting the corporate status quo. For example, instead of giving McDonalds your dollar, give it to lets say Grandmas Burgers...... Instead of Dunkin Donuts or the gas station, go to your local convenience store. If these corporations are scum, lets lift the middle class up.

finally something constructive....I have seen the power of the internet, people have the ability to do a lot of good if decided to do it!!

hurt em where it counts, in the wallet!!!

 

[ax1]

If my fast food or restaurant service is given to a robot, I will not visit that place. I prefer human interaction any day of the week.

I just saw that Amazon has an almost completely automated warehouse now. That's scary

Amazon can deliver with drones now too....they are working to replace the delivery man.

They also just opened a convenience store where you pick up what you want and just walk out the door. You automatically get charged, no cashiers, barely anybody working in the store. Fill up your bag and walk out. You dont even need to scan anything, your phone in your pocket will know what you took off the shelf, or what you put back. Expect to see more of this in the future and not just from Amazon.

 

[thebigt]

Scaled. The more you earn the more you are taxed. My tax rate is 20% or so. But I dont mind, the governement pays me to save money by matching what I contribute to my savings

I pay more than that flat out, plus business taxes on EVERYTHING...I BUY I GET TAXED, I SELL I GET TAXED...I sit on my ass I get taxed....

 

[muscleupcrohn]

finally something constructive....I have seen the power of the internet, people have the ability to do a lot of good if decided to do it!!

hurt em where it counts, in the wallet!!!

Dude, that's what I've been saying the whole time; protest by avoiding the companies doing things you don't like, but realize it may mean spending a bit more, being inconvenienced a little, etc. That's the part that people don't want to do.

 

[ax1]

finally something constructive....I have seen the power of the internet, people have the ability to do a lot of good if decided to do it!!

hurt em where it counts, in the wallet!!!

I need to start contributing more to this idea...Im not ready to abandon my Amazon Prime for example but I can do better supporting my local businesses. Need to walk and not just talk, lol

 

[ax1]

Dude, that's what I've been saying the whole time; protest by avoiding the companies doing things you don't like, but realize it may mean spending a bit more, being inconvenienced a little, etc. That's the part that people don't want to do.

Im willing to pay more when Im treated with respect when I walk into a store and valued as a customer. Pay attention to me dammit.

 

[Jiigzz]

I pay more than that flat out, plus business taxes on EVERYTHING...I BUY I GET TAXED, I SELL I GET TAXED...I sit on my ass I get taxed....

We have income tax and a goods and services tax, but we are paid more so we don't really mind.

Considering free dental up until 18, subsidised medical care, $5 medications (for most everything), subsidised study, world leading roading networks, accident compensation for accidents at home or in the workplace, goverment rewarded savings and other such things, living here is a dream

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Im willing to pay more when Im treated with respect when I walk into a store and valued as a customer. Pay attention to me dammit.

That's what I hate about Walmart. Publix on the other hand has great customer service, and I go there for food over Walmart, even if it's a bit more expensive for the same thing. I know that they're not a "mom and pop" store, but I feel they're so much better than Walmart.

 

[thebigt]

Dude, that's what I've been saying the whole time; protest by avoiding the companies doing things you don't like, but realize it may mean spending a bit more, being inconvenienced a little, etc. That's the part that people don't want to do.

that is why it hasn't been done before, people were not committed enough to be inconvenienced, I think that might be changing....if we can get the youth to get involved we can do great things.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

that is why it hasn't been done before, people were not committed enough to be inconvenienced, I think that might be changing....if we can get the youth to get involved we can do great things.

I don't want to give up my Amazon Prime; it pays for itself and then some for textbooks (don't even get me started on textbooks), but I completely get what you're saying. I rarely, rarely ever have fast food, so there's that.

 

[ax1]

We have income tax and a goods and services tax, but we are paid more so we don't really mind.

Considering free dental up until 18, subsidised medical care, $5 medications (for most everything), subsidised study, world leading roading networks, accident compensation for accidents at home or in the workplace, goverment rewarded savings and other such things, living here is a dream

NZ is officially on my target list when the day comes I need to hop on a canoe escaping tyranny for a better life!

 

[muscleupcrohn]

NZ is officially on my target list when the day comes I need to hop on a canoe escaping tyranny for a better life!

I'd imagine that not everyone who swims/boats there gets to stay though.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, as I'm not entirely sure.

 

[thebigt]

That's what I hate about Walmart. Publix on the other hand has great customer service, and I go there for food over Walmart, even if it's a bit more expensive for the same thing. I know that they're not a "mom and pop" store, but I feel they're so much better than Walmart.

I hope and pray that people protest the Wendy's kiosk and choose not to go there, and it is a complete failure...it would be a sweet victory for all of us humans-serious!!!

 

[thebigt]

I don't want to give up my Amazon Prime; it pays for itself and then some for textbooks (don't even get me started on textbooks), but I completely get what you're saying. I rarely, rarely ever have fast food, so there's that.

I think all of us are in agreement....something that very rarely happens in this thread, lol!!!

power to the people!!!

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I hope and pray that people protest the Wendy's kiosk and choose not to go there, and it is a complete failure...it would be a sweet victory for all of us humans-serious!!!

I don't go to Wendy's anyway, or McDonalds, or Burger King, or KFC, etc, haha.

Pollo Tropical and Chipotle are the restaurants I normally go to for relatively cheap and fast food.

 

[ax1]

I'd imagine that not everyone who swims/boats there gets to stay though.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, as I'm not entirely sure.

The thing is if NZ had over decades millions of people flooding the country illegally (they do only have about 4.5 million people) and eventually using up the people's services its going to go broke. People may be tempted to hire cheap labor, I dunno just a guess.

I dunno about NZ immigration other than its firstly hard to get there....second I know alot of illegal immigration that crosses near Australia end up on some deserted prison camp island far away from Australia so thats another obstacle. I dunno the exact facts but I do know there are human rights groups concerned about that Australian immigrant concentration camp.

I wanna visit NZ some day, it sounds nice there.

 

[ax1]

Off to movies, have a nice night folks. Logan!!!!! Going to my local $5 movie theater too, hows that for power to the people??! Will DVR big fight tonight and watch in the morning, no spoilers here please!

 

[thebigt]

I don't go to Wendy's anyway, or McDonalds, or Burger King, or KFC, etc, haha.

Pollo Tropical and Chipotle are the restaurants I normally go to for relatively cheap and fast food.

I rarely do fast foods either---red lobster, texas steak house, olive garden, panera's are more my style...but I would still support a protest of Wendy's.

 

[thebigt]

Off to movies, have a nice night folks. Logan!!!!! Going to my local $5 movie theater too, hows that for power to the people??! Will DVR big fight tonight and watch in the morning, no spoilers here please!

I got .50c on Garcia, lol.