Donald Trump running for president

Misfit28 said:
I have to respectfully disagree. Systemic and institutionalized discrimination still exist.

People cry about affirmative action and how it is unfair to whites, but the truth tells a different story.
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So do you support the suppression of people who were born with white skin so people with another color skin can catch up?

How does the suppression of innocent white people help the future of black people? In my eyes it only alienates me to be racially discriminated because I was born white.

Fortunately I dont buy into the liberal propaganda. In truth, alot of blacks dont buy into this anyways, I stand with them for equality not people that want to continue to divide people with what color they were born with.

Affirmative action only furthers racial division, the answer is freedom and liberty not suppression of groups.
 
Misfit28 said:
You can't see how systemic discrimination can play a role in creating and perpetuating poverty?
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Who is systematically discriminating against poor black people, and why should the millions and millions of poor white people care? Why should white people be guilty for being born white?
 
ax1 said:
So do you support the suppression of people who were born with white skin so people with another color skin can catch up?

How does the suppression of innocent white people help the future of black people? In my eyes it only alienates me to be racially discriminated because I was born white.

Fortunately I dont buy into the liberal propaganda. In truth, alot of blacks dont buy into this anyways, I stand with them for equality not people that want to continue to divide people with what color they were born with.

Affirmative action only furthers racial division, the answer is freedom and liberty not suppression of groups.
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But it isn't. I'll post some statistics for you. There have been no decreases in college attendance or scholarship attainment by white people.

Don't drink the conservative Kool-Aid ;)
 
Guys, this isnt the 1950's anymore, the current generation has been raised in one of the most LEAST racist countries on the planet, OJHHHH ppuuuuulllleeeeeessseeee!!!!!!!

Nobody owes anybody anything here.
 
Misfit28 said:
Yes, thank you!

As far as affirmative action goes, it hasn't been nearly as discriminatory as some feared it might be.
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It could certainly be worse, but I have heard some accounts, from trustworthy, non-racist people, who have been passed over for a job/promotion/scholarship/etc due to affirmative action. Granted, it could be worse, and I could certainly see why it was certainly needed in our country, but hopefully we'll see a time where it's not needed/used anymore.
 
ax1 said:
Who is systematically discriminating against poor black people, and why should the millions and millions of poor white people care? Why should white people be guilty for being born white?
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*sigh*

It seems that only blatantly obvious racist acts matter to you and others in this thread. It's like banging my head into a wall.

There are structural inequalities at play here as well, that aren't as ubiquitous.
 
Misfit28 said:
But it isn't. I'll post some statistics for you. There have been no decreases in college attendance or scholarship attainment by white people.

Don't drink the conservative Kool-Aid ;)
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There is something called personal responsibility.....who is stopping black people from going to college and why did I have to loan from a bank 10s of thousands to get myself in school?

I am one of some 90,000 pure American-Sicilians in this country and my race has a history of being abused here for cheap labor and I dont want to steal anything or get special privileges just because of my ethnicity. Its nonsense, I take personal responsibility for myself and expect the same for others as I have on myself

Im sorry but stats wont sway me one way or another on this very topic.

End note: Im respectfully just trying to debate not trying to come off as an ass like yesterday :)
 
Misfit28 said:
But it isn't. I'll post some statistics for you. There have been no decreases in college attendance or scholarship attainment by white people.

Don't drink the conservative Kool-Aid ;)
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The thing is, if it's acceptable, or even encouraged/praised for an individual to create an "African American Scholarship," which is great and charitable, shouldn't someone have the same right to make a "European American Scholarship" or something along those lines? It's an individual helping someone go to college; it's charitable and should be encouraged regardless of who the scholarship is going to, no? It's not like an individual is obligated to give money to establish a scholarship, so isn't helping a white person attend university better than not helping anyone? Who says that all scholarships have to go to minorities/etc? I know you may not like Ayn Rand, but I think she said something along the lines of the individual is the smallest minority. :)
 
thebigt said:
oh, I didn't get this far, lol.....

explain Obama's presidency, also I know many black's who would take issue with being called disadvantaged.

I can't think of a single right that I as a white male have that any black or female doesn't, if you can name one, please do!!!
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"Explain Obama's Presidency" doesn't make everything all good and equal.

Seriously?! What a strawman.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
The thing is, if it's acceptable, or even encouraged/praised for an individual to create an "African American Scholarship," which is great and charitable, shouldn't someone have the same right to make a "European American Scholarship" or something along those lines? It's an individual helping someone go to college; it's charitable and should be encouraged regardless of who the scholarship is going to, no? It's not like an individual is obligated to give money to establish a scholarship, so isn't helping a white person attend university better than not helping anyone? Who says that all scholarships have to go to minorities/etc? I know you may not like Ayn Rand, but I think she said something along the lines of the individual is the smallest minority. :)
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And they do. The funny thing is they mostly go defunct.
 
ax1 said:
There is something called personal responsibility.....who is stopping black people from going to college and why did I have to loan from a bank 10s of thousands to get myself in school?

I am one of some 90,000 pure American-Sicilians in this country and my race has a history of being abused here for cheap labor and I dont want to steal anything or get special privileges just because of my ethnicity. Its nonsense, I take personal responsibility for myself and expect the same for others as I have on myself

Im sorry but stats wont sway me one way or another on this very topic.

End note: Im respectfully just trying to debate not trying to come off as an ass like yesterday :)
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For one, blacks are disproportionately unlikely to even be admitted to college in the first place.

I'm glad your ancestors were actually paid for their labor :) African slaves weren't so fortunate ;)
 
Misfit28 said:
And they do. The funny thing is they mostly go defunct.
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Is that because of backlash, people condemning the creator as a racist? I'm honestly not entirely sure, but I do recall people throwing a fit about someon making what was essentially a "white" scholarship.

Now, just to add fuel to the fire, since it's 2017, what if a white person "identifies as an African American?" Are they eligible for a scholarship? What if a man identifies as a woman, is he eligible for a women's scholarship? ;)
 
Misfit28 said:
For one, blacks are disproportionately unlikely to even be admitted to college in the first place.

I'm glad your ancestors were actually paid for their labor :) African slaves weren't so fortunate ;)
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So they can start their own colleges, or I mean open more. Take personal responsibility to help your own if you care.

African slaves werent paid of course, but that has nothing to do with white people. It has to do with horrible people. Nobody alive today is responsible for that anyways, its time to move on and preach equality, not contribute to racial separation.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Is that because of backlash, people condemning the creator as a racist? I'm honestly not entirely sure, but I do recall people throwing a fit about someon making what was essentially a "white" scholarship.

Now, just to add fuel to the fire, since it's 2017, what if a white person "identifies as an African American?" Are they eligible for a scholarship? What if a man identifies as a woman, is he eligible for a women's scholarship? ;)
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I need to see why they went defunct. I was reading an article yesterday, I need to find it again.

Interesting point! I never thought about that. Did you ever see the show "Atlanta"? There was a parody segment where a black guy identifies as white.
 
ax1 said:
So they can start their own colleges, or I mean open more.

African slaves werent paid of course, but that has nothing to do with white people. It has to do with horrible people. Nobody alive today is responsible for that anyways, its time to move on and preach equality, not contribute to racial separation.
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I can totally get behind that, but I honestly believe that there are still some people who don't want to see that happen.
 
Misfit28 said:
For one, blacks are disproportionately unlikely to even be admitted to college in the first place.

I'm glad your ancestors were actually paid for their labor :) African slaves weren't so fortunate ;)
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There is an argument to be made that people today shouldn't have to pay for the actions of their ancestors who aren't alive, and who people today likely never met. Conversely, there is also an argument to be made that the ancestors of these disenfranchised people are still feeling the repercussions of these past acts, so need some form of assistance." It's really not as simple as some people make it out to be, but I feel that the argument regarding affirmative action is if it's needed/necessary/beneficial, not if it's discriminatory or not, as it is by definition.
 
Misfit28 said:
I need to see why they went defunct. I was reading an article yesterday, I need to find it again.

Interesting point! I never thought about that. Did you ever see the show "Atlanta"? There was a parody segment where a black guy identifies as white.
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I don't think I've seen it, but I do remember Dave Chappelle's black white supremacist skit.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
There is an argument to be made that people today shouldn't have to pay for the actions of their ancestors who aren't alive, and who people today likely never met. Conversely, there is also an argument to be made that the ancestors of these disenfranchised people are still feeling the repercussions of these past acts, so need some form of assistance." It's really not as simple as some people make it out to be, but I feel that the argument regarding affirmative action is if it's needed/necessary/beneficial, not if it's discriminatory or not, as it is by definition.
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I feel the exact same way. I more fall into the second camp. I don't feel an excessive amount of "white guilt" as some in this thread have claimed, so much as I want to help level the playing field. If feeling bad that your ancestors owned slaves is a bad thing, I guess you can call me a bad person.

All I can do is try to make the world a better place, while in the process making sure I can help those that truly need help without putting my own family at risk.
 
Misfit28 said:
I can totally get behind that, but I honestly believe that there are still some people who don't want to see that happen.
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Who is going to stop people from opening more "black" schools in this country? Who is legally going to get in the way?

BTW, I think the idea of black schools is absolutely ridiculous. How can you have a school that is open to the basis of what color of skin you were born with. THAT is inequality. Then if you open a "white" school its racist. Its so ridiculous.

Hey my skin is black, let me in, ROFL!
 
Misfit28 said:
Here's some interesting stuff:

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Thanks for the links. I just read the "abstract" for the first link, and it does admit that Caucasians (let's just say white, because that's rather hard to spell), receive a slightly disproportional amount of scholarships that are merit-based. That doesn't suggest that there is any inherent discrimination or racism involved, and likely stems from the effects of poverty and whatnot on education that seems to disproportionately affect black students. With that said, perhaps the answer is need-based scholarships, as a white kid in growing up in the ghetto is probably facing the same difficulties as his black neighbor whose parents work at the same job, but probably isn't eligible for the same scholarships.

Misfit28 said:
I feel the exact same way. I more fall into the second camp. I don't feel an excessive amount of "white guilt" as some in this thread have claimed, so much as I want to help level the playing field. If feeling bad that your ancestors owned slaves is a bad thing, I guess you can call me a bad person.

All I can do is try to make the world a better place, while in the process making sure I can help those that truly need help without putting my own family at risk.
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I feel "bad" in the sense that I know it was wrong and a terrible thing, and wish it didn't happen, but I don't feel any level of personal guilt or responsibility for it, if that makes any sense.
 
ax1 said:
Who is going to stop people from opening more "black" schools in this country? Who is legally going to get in the way?

BTW, I think the idea of black schools is absolutely ridiculous. How can you have a school that is open to the basis of what color of skin you were born with. THAT is inequality. Then if you open a "white" school its racist. Its so ridiculous.

Hey my skin is black, let me in, ROFL!
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Um, because of segregation.
 
Misfit28 said:
I feel the exact same way. I more fall into the second camp. I don't feel an excessive amount of "white guilt" as some in this thread have claimed, so much as I want to help level the playing field. If feeling bad that your ancestors owned slaves is a bad thing, I guess you can call me a bad person.

All I can do is try to make the world a better place, while in the process making sure I can help those that truly need help without putting my own family at risk.
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We can all feel bad that shytty people did and still do shytty things to others and acknowledge and educate on that, but what they did has nothing to do with you. Our ancestors are the globe, blacks, whites, asians, middle eastern people ALL were slaves. Blacks even sold blacks as slaves. Whites helped free and arm the slaves. There is nothing to feel bad about other than just simply feeling bad about evil things SOME people out of all kinds of EVERYBODY did in history.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Thanks for the links. I just read the "abstract" for the first link, and it does admit that Caucasians (let's just say white, because that's rather hard to spell), receive a slightly disproportional amount of scholarships that are merit-based. That doesn't suggest that there is any inherent discrimination or racism involved, and likely stems from the effects of poverty and whatnot on education that seems to disproportionately affect black students. With that said, perhaps the answer is need-based scholarships, as a white kid in growing up in the ghetto is probably facing the same difficulties as his black neighbor whose parents work at the same job, but probably isn't eligible for the same scholarships.


I feel "bad" in the sense that I know it was wrong and a terrible thing, and wish it didn't happen, but I don't feel any level of personal guilt or responsibility for it, if that makes any sense.
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I thought that at first as well, but further down it also shows that it is still disproportionate even when African Americans had high grades.

And yes, I agree with your second statement. My sentiments exactly. I can't change what my ancestors did before me.
 
Misfit28 said:
Um, because of segregation.
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This isnt the 1950's anymore. What is it that I am not getting? On another note, Isnt opening a exclusive black college segregation? How would two wrongs make a right?
 
ax1 said:
This isnt the 1950's anymore. What is it that I am not getting? On another note, Isnt opening a exclusive black college segregation? How would two wrongs make a right?
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Most of the HBCUs were founded a LONG time ago. White people can go to HBCUs as well. They aren't prohibitive.

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Misfit28 said:
For one, blacks are disproportionately unlikely to even be admitted to college in the first place.

I'm glad your ancestors were actually paid for their labor :) African slaves weren't so fortunate ;)
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Unlikely to be admitted or even apply? Considering graduation rates from high school in inner city schools, if a black student dropped out, they aren't likely to apply for admittance to any college.
 
Misfit28 said:
I thought that at first as well, but further down it also shows that it is still disproportionate even when African Americans had high grades.

And yes, I agree with your second statement. My sentiments exactly. I can't change what my ancestors did before me.
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I admittedly haven't read through the entire document, but does it also take extracurricular activities and similar things into account? Again, some of these things can be effected by economic status and other things that you can make an argument disproportionately effect minorities, but it's not like white people can't get scholarships, but I have seen minority scholarships go to people who grew up going to very good schools, with a big house and nice cars in a nice neighborhood, etc, while white students with less money were passed over, even with similar grades and whatnot.. The system isn't perfect, but that really goes without saying I suppose.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Is that because of backlash, people condemning the creator as a racist? I'm honestly not entirely sure, but I do recall people throwing a fit about someon making what was essentially a "white" scholarship.

Now, just to add fuel to the fire, since it's 2017, what if a white person "identifies as an African American?" Are they eligible for a scholarship? What if a man identifies as a woman, is he eligible for a women's scholarship? ;)
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Elizabeth "Pocahontas" Warren claimed Native American status for college.
 
Misfit28 said:
Here's some interesting stuff:

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Here is an idea....that check box that you check with "race" that I used to leave empty in school when I was a kid that I would get stone cold looks for doing so, get rid of them.

Application...no name, no race.....just a number to eliminate the hint of any race. Approve or disapprove. No favors and no suppression of peoples skin color, no social engineering. End story.
 
Misfit28 said:
Most of the HBCUs were founded a LONG time ago. White people can go to HBCUs as well. They aren't prohibitive.

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I can see how at that time it would have been acceptable, I would have supported that considering the circumstances. Its good they are open to all people then, I honestly havent looked into the college in detail.

I really just want to see people not clinging to their skin colors its just so ridiculous.
 
youngandfree said:
Unlikely to be admitted or even apply? Considering graduation rates from high school in inner city schools, if a black student dropped out, they aren't likely to apply for admittance to any college.
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You're really good at assuming things. What exactly are you trying to say here?

Yes, I realize that inner city schools have a high dropout rate, but you are off base here.

The dropout rate for whites was 5% versus 8% for blacks.

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Misfit28 said:
You're really good at assuming things. What exactly are you trying to say here?

Yes, I realize that inner city schools have a high dropout rate, but you are off base here.

The dropout rate for whites was 5% versus 8% for blacks.

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Im not assuming anything, just asking a legitimate question. If a high school graduate doesn't apply for college, and they are counted in numbers of graduates "that don't get accepted to college", it's a flawed premise.
 
Misfit28 said:
And she probably would have had to provide tribal affiliation to do so. God you suck.

And actually she didn't. You really are a scumbag.

This is from 2012.

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Funny here's the article where Harvard Law School spokesperson explicitly says Warren is the only Native American female on the faculty.

Your article merely states she didn't receive any professional advantages, and then digs into her geneology.

This is from 1996.
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Check.
 
youngandfree said:
Funny here's the article where Harvard Law School spokesperson explicitly says Warren is the only Native American female on the faculty.

Your article merely states she didn't receive any professional advantages, and then digs into her geneology.

This is from 1996.
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Check.
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youngandfree said:
Elizabeth "Pocahontas" Warren claimed Native American status for college.
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You said she used her heritage for college. Mate.

It digs into her genealogy and also explains how she didn't and couldn't have used it for college admissions purposes.

Once again, your point?
 
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Here's another article reporting she was listed as Native American at University of Penn while on faculty there, before she became tenured at Harvard. Her second stint at Harvard is when they list her and promote her as being Native American on faculty to "promote their diversity".
 
Misfit28 said:
You said she used her heritage for college. Mate.

It digs into her genealogy and also explains how she didn't and couldn't have used it for college admissions purposes.

Once again, your point?
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I didn't say how she used it did I. It was a known claim that she was a Native American professor. Even if she wasn't "recruited" because of it, 2 ivy league schools exploited her false claim.
 
youngandfree said:
Elizabeth "Pocahontas" Warren claimed Native American status for college.
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youngandfree said:
Elizabeth "Pocahontas" Warren claimed Native American status for college.
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youngandfree said:
Elizabeth "Pocahontas" Warren claimed Native American status for college.
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That's what you said.

You didn't say,"Elizabeth "Pocahontas" Warren claimed her Native American status to obtain a position at a university".

BTW, that "pocahontas" thing is so ridiculous and just trite. I won't use the "r" word here, but it is offensive IMO.
 
Misfit28 said:
That's what you said.

You didn't say,"Elizabeth "Pocahontas" Warren claimed her Native American status to obtain a position at a university".

BTW, that "pocahontas" thing is so ridiculous and just trite. I won't use the "r" word here, but it is offensive IMO.
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Exactly. I didn't say she made the claim for professional gain. Your first rebuttal was an article proving that she didn't use it for professional gain. But it didn't refute my statement.
 
youngandfree said:
Exactly. I didn't say she made the claim for professional gain. Your first rebuttal was an article proving that she didn't use it for professional gain. But it didn't refute my statement.
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I have no idea what your point is.

Are you referring to her getting into college? Or being faculty?

There's a difference, you know.
 
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