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Donald Trump running for president

Misfit28 said:
I honestly am not trying to be an ass here, just trying to explain my perspective.

I'll admit, ax1 gets under my (white) skin ;). I guess I just need to ignore him, as he kinda makes my blood boil at times and make any discussion here almost pointless.
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Ill step out and let you debate with the others since your genuine about your side at least, just being a bystander from here on for today with this specific topic since I have nothing much more to contribute. :)
 
Misfit28 said:
I grew up in Mississippi. I'd be willing to bet I've seen more racism than you.
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This is another ignoramus statement from you. You have no clue the type of people Ive been around from a child and up. Being around racism doesnt exempt you from being what you are which is a pure racist.
 
ax1 said:
This is another ignoramus statement from you. You have no clue the type of people Ive been around from a child and up. Being around racism doesnt exempt you from being what you are which is a pure racist.
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Bye, it just ain't worth your $hit any more. Ignored you are (in the words and syntax of Yoda).

Have a nice life, bro.

I'm sick to death of your insanity.
 
Misfit28 said:
I grew up in Mississippi. I'd be willing to bet I've seen more racism than you.
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Ive been victimized by racism my childhood, so when I see people like you constantly obsessing with skin color or other backgrounds I find it extremely ignorant and insulting. You make excuses for the same things you stand against. Its more hypocrisy.

People are people, and should judge by those means only. Being born a skin color or a specific "minority" is NOT an excuse to discriminate on others outside of joking around slightly.

Being that you pick certain races to excuse them of certain behaviors are some of the confirmations your a racist yourself.
 
Misfit28 said:
Bye, it just ain't worth your $hit any more. Ignored you are (in the words and syntax of Yoda).

Have a nice life, bro.

I'm sick to death of your insanity.
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I'm genuinely curious to your answer to my question, and I enjoy having civil conversations/debates with you:
muscleupcrohn said:
Perhaps I am not articulating my question well. Ill re-state it: With this definition, can a black person (for example, a business owner) still be found guilty of discriminating against a white person (perhaps a customer, employee, or potential employee), and would this still carry the same penalty as a white person discriminating against a black person what is otherwise the same hypothetical example? If so, then we're really arguing over semantics here, as the law still views everyone as equals, and acknowledges the possibility that we can all discriminate and be discriminated against, regardless of what you call that particular discrimination and/or what explanation you give for it.
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ax1 said:
Ive been victimized by racism my childhood, so when I see people like you obsessing with skin color or other backgrounds I find it extremely ignorant and insulting.

People are people, and should judge by those means only. Being born a skin color or a specific "minority" is NOT an excuse to discriminate on others outside of joking around slightly.
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Can you not f'ing see that I am against racism completely? I would have defended you if I had witnessed that. Jesus.

Bloody hell. I'm out, this thread is pretty much pointless anyway and a huge time sink for no reason.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
I'm genuinely curious to your answer to my question, and I enjoy having civil conversations/debates with you:
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Listen, I totally agree that ANY crime committed by a person of ANY race should be punishable by the same penalties, especially if motivated by hate.

BTW, I honestly even dislike the word "race". I think it's a social construct, and has no true basis in genetic differences. In fact, there is more variation between people of the same "race" than between "races".
 
Misfit28 said:
Can you not f'ing see that I am against racism completely? I would have defended you if I had witnessed that. Jesus.

Bloody hell. I'm out, this thread is pretty much pointless anyway and a huge time sink for no reason.
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No, since my color of my skin happens to be white I dont see how your beliefs would allow you to do so.

Being that your from Mississippi you probably have no idea what its like to be victimized of your ethnic background. Ive had it from white (attacking my heritage,) black, Hispanic, etc....I was bullied because I was white, I was beat up because I was told I was the whitest they knew...etc.....anyways I dont take it out on others races, just that some people happen to be ignorant assess. I only blame them as an individual.

You come across as if you obsess yourself with race/skin color and make excuses for certain people which is just plain unacceptable.
 
Misfit28 said:
Listen, I totally agree that ANY crime committed by a person of ANY race should be punishable by the same penalties, especially if motivated by hate.
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Good, then we are in agreement on the most important aspect of this discussion my friend! As to what you want to call it, or how you want to explain it, that is completely up to you. :)

So often we allow small differences in opinion to be so divisive.
 
Misfit28 said:
BTW, I honestly even dislike the word "race". I think it's a social construct, and has no true basis in genetic differences. In fact, there is more variation between people of the same "race" than between "races".
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If that was the case maybe you wouldnt be grouping and discriminating people by their "race" and skin color such as when you racially discriminated Dump supporters.
 
ax1 said:
No, since my color of my skin happens to be white I dont see how your beliefs would allow you to do so.

Being that your from Mississippi you probably have no idea what its like to be victimized of your ethnic background. Ive had it from white (attacking my heritage,) black, Hispanic, etc....I was bullied because I was white, I was beat up because I was told I was the whitest they knew...etc.....anyways I dont take it out on others races, just that some people happen to be ignorant assess. I only blame them as an individual.

You come across as if you obsess yourself with race/skin color and make excuses for certain people which is just plain unacceptable.
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I can see your perspective.

And you are 1,000% correct, all I can do is attempt to empathize with you, as I haven't experienced it. I have, however, experienced prejudice from African Americans before in the South. As you said, you can't blame the entire "race" for an individual's actions. I never meant for that to be misconstrued into having an obsession with race.

I have no idea how you arrived at the conclusion that I am racist, I wish I understood that.
 
ax1 said:
If that was the case maybe you wouldnt be grouping and discriminating people by their "race" and skin color such as when you racially discriminated Dump supporters.
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You're correct, I suppose. I'll begrudgingly admit that not ALL Trump supporters are blatantly racist.
 
ax1 said:
If that was the case maybe you wouldnt be grouping and discriminating people by their "race" and skin color such as when you racially discriminated Dump supporters.
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I'll also even apologize for calling you insane as well :D
 
Misfit28 said:
I can see your perspective.

And you are 1,000% correct, all I can do is attempt to empathize with you, as I haven't experienced it. I have, however, experienced prejudice from African Americans before in the South. As you said, you can't blame the entire "race" for an individual's actions. I never meant for that to be misconstrued into having an obsession with race.

I have no idea how you arrived at the conclusion that I am racist, I wish I understood that.
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I think your a good dude, its probably a over-reaction to my part and its not all your fault. Ill just say I disagree with some of your social race views but I shouldnt equate this difference as if your a bad person or not so Ill just say Im sorry for my over-reaction.
 
ax1 said:
I think your a good dude, its probably a over-reaction to my part and its not all your fault. Ill just say I disagree with some of your social race views but I shouldnt equate this difference as if your a bad person or not so Ill just say Im sorry for my over-reaction.
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Thank you :)
 
Misfit28 said:
As you said, you can't blame the entire "race" for an individual's actions. I never meant for that to be misconstrued into having an obsession with race.
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That right there is a good clarification for me, we are on the same page with that one :)
 
Misfit28 said:
There are multiple definitions. Just because you used the one that fits with your preconceived biases doesn't mean it is the only definition.

I believe my point is illustrated best by definition 2a-b:



Definition of racism
1
: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2
a : a doctrine or political program based on the assumption of racism and designed to execute its principles
b : a political or social system founded on racism
3
: racial prejudice or discrimination
racist \-sist also -shist\ noun or adjective

From Merriam-Webster. YOUR reference.
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Funny, none of those mention you can only be racist if you are in a majority percentage of the population.
 
youngandfree said:
Funny, none of those mention you can only be racist if you are in a majority percentage of the population.
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That pretty much is in line with 2a-b.

It's pretty difficult to establish a political or social system if you are a distinct minority in the population and are also enslaved. Just saying.

And no, it's not "funny".
 
ax1 said:
This is another ignoramus statement from you. You have no clue the type of people Ive been around from a child and up. Being around racism doesnt exempt you from being what you are which is a pure racist.
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That explains his white guilt complex.
 
Misfit28 said:
That pretty much is in line with 2a-b.

It's pretty difficult to establish a political or social system if you are a distinct minority in the population and are also enslaved. Just saying.
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Isn't there an argument to be made that differentiates systemic/institutional racism (2a-b) and individual racism (1 & 3)?

I think we already beat this horse into the ground though, and understand each other pretty well here.
 
Misfit28 said:
You're correct, I suppose. I'll begrudgingly admit that not ALL Trump supporters are blatantly racist.
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Make sure you read this in a calm tone...lol Dump supporters are certainly not all "white" people either, that was another thing that originally bothered me about that post but all is well. I felt like that was insulting to minorities that do support him from my own view.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Isn't there an argument to be made that differentiates systemic/institutional racism (2a-b) and individual racism (1 & 3)?

I think we already beat this horse into the ground though, and understand each other pretty well here.
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Yes, I can agree with that actually. It's the failure to acknowledge that 2a-b even exists that blows my mind.
 
ax1 said:
Make sure you read this in a calm tone...lol Dump supporters are certainly not all "white" people either, that was another thing that originally bothered me about that post but all is well. I felt like that was insulting to minorities that do support him from my own view.
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Oh, I know :)

And I can see how that could be insulting.
 
Misfit28 said:
That pretty much is in line with 2a-b.

It's pretty difficult to establish a political or social system if you are a distinct minority in the population and are also enslaved. Just saying.

And no, it's not "funny".
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I can make a good argument we are ALL enslaved and its not racially motivated....laws suppressing individual freedoms and liberties such as the income tax....now join Ron Paul's Liberty movement and we all will be free!
 
Misfit28 said:
That pretty much is in line with 2a-b.

It's pretty difficult to establish a political or social system if you are a distinct minority in the population and are also enslaved. Just saying.

And no, it's not "funny".
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That still doesn't equate to your statement that you can't be racist if you are in a racial minority percentage of a population.
 
Misfit28 said:
I didn't say anything about minority.

I said "in power".

Sent from my XT1650 using Invalid Link Removed
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Here's what you said.

"It's pretty difficult to establish a political or social system if you are a distinct minority in the population and are also enslaved. Just saying."

So which is it?
 
I've already made the point that you're referring to. Please read it again and try to comprehend.

I'm not going to rewrite what I said.
 
Misfit28 said:
I've already made the point that you're referring to. Please read it again and try to comprehend.

I'm not going to rewrite what I said.
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It's not out of context. This last quote was your clarification when I pointed out the webster definition doesn't correlate to your assumption that you can't be racist if you "aren't in a dominant power group". To which you said you can't form a political system if you're in the minority percentage of a population. It's clear what you said, and it doesn't add up. Your original statement was that African americans, and other minorities, can't be racist, which is absurd.
 
youngandfree said:
Your original statement was that African americans, and other minorities, can't be racist, which is absurd.
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That was what was giving me my over-reaction earlier, it just defied logic in my own view. You can't blame a race and be disrespectful to them just because either a few hold certain power or a few are racist dimwits all because there are less than you in a particular area or country.
 
Misfit28 said:
I'll refrain from going into the reasons why African Americans and other minorities can't technically be "racist".
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just for the sake of scratching my itching curiosity please, do elaborate....
 
Misfit28 said:
African Americans are not the dominant culture in America. They can be prejudiced, just not "racist".

Racism is predicated on conferring advantages to the "race" in power. As we can see from many studies, African Americans are still disadvantaged to this day. Prejudice is more of an individual thing, whereas racism can be seen as systemic and institutional in nature..

I'm sure it sounds like "liberal propaganda" to you, but that doesn't mean it is any less true.
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oh, I didn't get this far, lol.....

explain Obama's presidency, also I know many black's who would take issue with being called disadvantaged.

I can't think of a single right that I as a white male have that any black or female doesn't, if you can name one, please do!!!
 
wow...just heard that jeff sessions has recused himself, that is very refreshing....to bad the previous two attorney general's didn't have that kind of integrity!!!
 
thebigt said:
oh, I didn't get this far, lol.....

explain Obama's presidency, also I know many black's who would take issue with being called disadvantaged.

I can't think of a single right that I as a white male have that any black or female doesn't, if you can name one, please do!!!
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Fact is people of all race/ethnicities struggle through disadvantages. This isn't a racial thing it's not the 1950's anymore...life is hard but you can't blame the color of your skin anymore.
 
ax1 said:
Fact is people of all race/ethnicities struggle through disadvantages. This isn't a racial thing it's not the 1950's anymore...life is hard but you can't blame the color of your skin anymore.
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fact....poverty is the problem, not race!!!
 
thebigt said:
wow...just heard that jeff sessions has recused himself, that is very refreshing....to bad the previous two attorney general's didn't have that kind of integrity!!!
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Considering the justice department has already said there's no evidence of impropriety, there won't be much of an additional investigation. So it's enough to shut up the haters for a minute.
 
youngandfree said:
Considering the justice department has already said there's no evidence of impropriety, there won't be much of an additional investigation. So it's enough to shut up the haters for a minute.
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are you kidding....I don't think there is enough gags in the entire world to shut up the democrats, lol.

that's ok though, I like hearing them whine....listening to them be crybabys is much better than if Hillary would have been elected-then I would be whining:biggthumpup:
 
You've got to ask yourself why everyone has been crying RUSSIA for the last year or more?

I can pretty confidently believe that you are being lied to by ALL of them and regardless of your political, intellectual, social and emotional capacity, persuasion or loyalty you and I don't and won't know the truth.
 
youngandfree said:
It's not out of context. This last quote was your clarification when I pointed out the webster definition doesn't correlate to your assumption that you can't be racist if you "aren't in a dominant power group". To which you said you can't form a political system if you're in the minority percentage of a population. It's clear what you said, and it doesn't add up. Your original statement was that African americans, and other minorities, can't be racist, which is absurd.
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No, it's not absurd. It's obvious you just can't comprehend my statement or the social science behind it, so I'm not going to waste more time trying to clarify for you.

It's about power dynamics and hegemonic relationships. You're using mainstream laymen's definitions to argue about something you don't have the slightest idea about.

As I said before, the 2ND DEFINITION correlates to my point. You do realize that dictionaries provide more than one definition, yes? The first listed is not the only definition.

From past interactions with you, it's obvious to me that you don't want to learn anything. You just want to rationalize your confirmation bias.
 
ax1 said:
Fact is people of all race/ethnicities struggle through disadvantages. This isn't a racial thing it's not the 1950's anymore...life is hard but you can't blame the color of your skin anymore.
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I have to respectfully disagree. Systemic and institutionalized discrimination still exist.

People cry about affirmative action and how it is unfair to whites, but the truth tells a different story.
 
Misfit28 said:
No, it's not absurd. It's obvious you just can't comprehend my statement or the social science behind it, so I'm not going to waste more time trying to clarify for you.

It's about power dynamics and hegemonic relationships. You're using mainstream laymen's definitions to argue about something you don't have the slightest idea about.

As I said before, the 2ND DEFINITION correlates to my point. You do realize that dictionaries provide more than one definition, yes? The first listed is not the only definition.

From past interactions with you, it's obvious to me that you don't want to learn anything. You just want to rationalize your confirmation bias.
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I guess you need to inform this judge that these minorities are wrongfully charged with racial hate crimes, since you say they can't be racist.
 
Misfit28 said:
I have to respectfully disagree. Systemic and institutionalized discrimination still exist.

People cry about affirmative action and how it is unfair to whites, but the truth tells a different story.
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In the most literal sense, affirmative action is, by definition, a discriminatory practice, as by giving preferential treatment to one group, you are inherently discriminating against another group. However, there is a argument to be made that it is necessary or beneficial to society, so you can see where multiple definitions and whatnot can get a bit confusing and convoluted.

To clarify to others, after discussing this topic with Misfit, it seems that he's not saying that minorities/blacks can't discriminate against whites/etc, or they can't behave in an individually racist way, just that they can't be part of institutional/systematic racism. It seems that he does believe that discrimination is wrong, regardless of who is doing it, and that everyone, regardless of color, should face the same penalties for discriminatory practices.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
In the most literal sense, affirmative action is, by definition, a discriminatory practice, as by giving preferential treatment to one group, you are inherently discriminating against another group. However, there is a argument to be made that it is necessary or beneficial to society, so you can see where multiple definitions and whatnot can get a bit confusing and convoluted.

To clarify to others, after discussing this topic with Misfit, it seems that he's not saying that minorities/blacks can't discriminate against whites/etc, or they can't behave in an individually racist way, just that they can't be part of institutional/systematic racism. It seems that he does believe that discrimination is wrong, regardless of who is doing it, and that everyone, regardless of color, should face the same penalties for discriminatory practices.
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Yes, thank you!

As far as affirmative action goes, it hasn't been nearly as discriminatory as some feared it might be.
 
David Dunn said:
You've got to ask yourself why everyone has been crying RUSSIA for the last year or more?

I can pretty confidently believe that you are being lied to by ALL of them and regardless of your political, intellectual, social and emotional capacity, persuasion or loyalty you and I don't and won't know the truth.
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ROFL!

Russian Ambassador Kislyak Attended Trump Congressional Speech Tuesday – Sat With Democrats…

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